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Chnge how downed state works.


Caedmon.6798

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Yea nerfing would be fine for me as well.
A rework for those rezz traits in PvP would be appreciated but if the rezz-heal is just nerfed across the board I'd be fine with it as well..
Alternatively or additionally I think it would be nice to only be able to rezz once per combat scenario, like.. if I get downed, someone rezzes me and my hp falls to 0 again, without being out of combat in the meantime, I just stay die instead without entering downed state again.
Rallying should also be restricted to only 1 player (like in WvW) or remove rallying in PvP all together. Then I think the purpose of down state is still there - at least my understanding of its purpose: helping a mate up after the fight is won.

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20 minutes ago, DoomNexus.5324 said:

Yea nerfing would be fine for me as well.
A rework for those rezz traits in PvP would be appreciated but if the rezz-heal is just nerfed across the board I'd be fine with it as well..
Alternatively or additionally I think it would be nice to only be able to rezz once per combat scenario, like.. if I get downed, someone rezzes me and my hp falls to 0 again, without being out of combat in the meantime, I just stay die instead without entering downed state again.
Rallying should also be restricted to only 1 player (like in WvW) or remove rallying in PvP all together. Then I think the purpose of down state is still there - at least my understanding of its purpose: helping a mate up after the fight is won.

 

Could have a 'dead head' mechanic like other mmos.  Where after getting rezzed, you got a non-removable 'dead head' debuff for a certain amount of time (say 60 seconds?), where you die instantly if you get downed with the dead head debuff.

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15 minutes ago, thepolishman.2348 said:

 

Could have a 'dead head' mechanic like other mmos.  Where after getting rezzed, you got a non-removable 'dead head' debuff for a certain amount of time (say 60 seconds?), where you die instantly if you get downed with the dead head debuff.

Yeah just had a match where in one fight one guy got up 4x in a row the other guy 2x. I know its on my team,and i was trying to finish where they got up before i could finish them off. Then trying to lay down damage but still getting up and up again. I know its an old debated topic and probably will never get changed,but its one of the most unfair mechanics in an mmo ever.

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Nerfing down state alone wouldn't suddenly turn sPvP into skill based game play.

I think that things like AoE spam, Condition spam, CC spam and too much Stealth are far bigger issues than down state.

16 hours ago, lotus.5672 said:

Nerfing ress traits/utilities would be enough for me

And don't forget to nerf finishing while you nerf reviving.

Edited by Fueki.4753
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9 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Love the suggestion. Detailed, actionable idea, 100% ready for implementation. I honestly don't know why they didn't do this already.


Going down 1x and the next time youre full dead. (60 seconds timer on it)
Bring back Quickness on finishing animations.

Those two would solve a whole lot.

Edited by Caedmon.6798
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- The 'going down 1x, next time full dead, X second CD'

- Nerf manual rezzing by a small amount (5-10%), allow healing power to impact manual rezzing by a small amount and allow it to (slightly) impact rez traits

- Revisit downstates. Some are ridiculously strong (ranger) or useless and RNG (warrior) and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to it. 

- Revisit 'unstoppable rezzes' and 'unstopable stomps'. I'm not sure on this one because I've never used one, but it seems...counderproductive to let people stomp and rez while misted, that immunity elixir thing, etc. Total lack of interaction there. I'll take or leave this option.

- Why do players lose all of their conditions when downed? Think it also happens when rezzed. Kind of ridiculous and imo should be changed.

- IIRC (may be wrong) player cooldowns still tick when downed. If they do - make them...not. 

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15 hours ago, Curennos.9307 said:

- Why do players lose all of their conditions when downed? Think it also happens when rezzed. Kind of ridiculous and imo should be changed.

- IIRC (may be wrong) player cooldowns still tick when downed. If they do - make them...not. 

Players don't lose conditions when downed? I've just had a couple matches with heavy condi pressure and I kept ticking with a couple thousand damage per second while down so.

Why should player cooldowns not continue to tick? Seems kinda arbitrary to me idk, the time still passed so why pause it?

Edited by DoomNexus.5324
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1 hour ago, DoomNexus.5324 said:

Players don't lose conditions when downed? I've just had a couple matches with heavy condi pressure and I kept ticking with a couple thousand damage per second while down so I can confirm this is not true.

Why should player cooldowns not continue to tick? Seems kinda arbitrary to me idk, the time still passed so why pause it?

How odd. I just tested this on the class dummies in the pvp lobbies and my condis did vanish when they were downed - I used steal right as one was about to go down (for the lengthy poison), downed them, and the poison didn't tick. Similar after a few more tests - bleeds would be ticking 1k per, then stop showing in my combat log when the combat dummy was downed. I haven't yet found a player willing to help me test it and see if their combat log/UI still shows ticks, but I'm 99% sure this is the case - I even saw the guardian's resolution buff remain, so it looks like condis don't remain but boons do.

 

To clarify - what I'm saying is that all your conditions vanish the moment you're downed. You can still have condis applied when in downstate, but they all go poof when you go from up state -> down state.

 

Also - because downstate is...downstate, so to speak. It's not 'alive' state, so we're allowed to treat it differently. In this case, downstate is - generally speaking - the 'last chance' GW2 gives you before you die, giving you limited skills to use, health degen, and takes away your dodge. The TLDR of it is that the player kittened up and is being given one last chance to get it together, albeit with heavily nerfed everything. You don't regen health, you don't have access to your skills (and, thematically speaking, you've probably dropped your weapons or something) - why should cooldowns keep ticking? 

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10 hours ago, Curennos.9307 said:

How odd. I just tested this on the class dummies in the pvp lobbies and my condis did vanish when they were downed - I used steal right as one was about to go down (for the lengthy poison), downed them, and the poison didn't tick. Similar after a few more tests - bleeds would be ticking 1k per, then stop showing in my combat log when the combat dummy was downed. I haven't yet found a player willing to help me test it and see if their combat log/UI still shows ticks, but I'm 99% sure this is the case - I even saw the guardian's resolution buff remain, so it looks like condis don't remain but boons do.

 

To clarify - what I'm saying is that all your conditions vanish the moment you're downed. You can still have condis applied when in downstate, but they all go poof when you go from up state -> down state.

 

Also - because downstate is...downstate, so to speak. It's not 'alive' state, so we're allowed to treat it differently. In this case, downstate is - generally speaking - the 'last chance' GW2 gives you before you die, giving you limited skills to use, health degen, and takes away your dodge. The TLDR of it is that the player kittened up and is being given one last chance to get it together, albeit with heavily nerfed everything. You don't regen health, you don't have access to your skills (and, thematically speaking, you've probably dropped your weapons or something) - why should cooldowns keep ticking? 

 

You are correct, condis do indeed get removed when you go down (been this way forever), the player that goes down also gets Invulnerable frames, in effect what these two things do is stop what should be a fair kill. The free condi clear if removed from the game would make DS far less of an issue, I also don't see why you should get a free clear anyway, and the Invulnerable frames have the same effect on power builds, as it absorbs the remainder of the burst.

If this is to remain, then condi/aoe/fields etc from the player that you downed should stop ticking and be cleared on you as well.

 

Remove these two things, the free clear and the Invulnerable frames, balance out the DS skills, as stated already, some DS abilities are absolutely broken, while others are more or less useless. I think these 3 things would solve the issues for the most part while leaving DS and it's core functions more or less the same.

 

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5 hours ago, TinkTinkPOOF.9201 said:

 

You are correct, condis do indeed get removed when you go down (been this way forever), the player that goes down also gets Invulnerable frames, in effect what these two things do is stop what should be a fair kill. The free condi clear if removed from the game would make DS far less of an issue, I also don't see why you should get a free clear anyway, and the Invulnerable frames have the same effect on power builds, as it absorbs the remainder of the burst.

If this is to remain, then condi/aoe/fields etc from the player that you downed should stop ticking and be cleared on you as well.

 

Remove these two things, the free clear and the Invulnerable frames, balance out the DS skills, as stated already, some DS abilities are absolutely broken, while others are more or less useless. I think these 3 things would solve the issues for the most part while leaving DS and it's core functions more or less the same.

 

Tbh I would bet gold that this is because of a technical limitation in the engine. They probably didn't have the invuln frames or condi clear in testing and it screwed something up due to swapping out healthbars, UI elements, and disabling class mechanics etc. I do hope they change/fix this though.

 

Also, since players seem to retain boons too, it makes no sense why condis are removed. Ty for confirming that tho I couldn't find a player to test yesterday. Thought I was going blind or something.

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Down state is one of the best parts of gw2 pvp making 5v5 all that more interesting. Setting it apart from many other games. It's these gems that make gw2 have some of the best pvp experience. The only issue with pvp has always been its funding and its team. And balance patches that really balance things over nursing builds out of game.

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