There should be zero rewards for losses, and actually lose pips for losses in a row.

[Gundam Style.8495]

You simply can not reward losers or losing. It does not build character or competitive spirit. It does not matter if mcskeevey doesnt want his time wasted. His time needs to be useless when he loses, so his gain will be knowledge and improvment and desire to lose less. Awarding anything for a loss is why most people fail, even in life. You have to hold people accountable. They might feel uncomfortable, but it will cause growth. Why do you think that nothing you tried worked? No balancing worked? Nothing worked? Because you rewarded bots, afkers, and quitters. This is why the mode failed, 100%. Some will say e-sports, or no development, but rewarding losers is why the mode failed. You must, absolutely must, reward only winning. Actually, rating loss should be even more stronger for losses. Also, the average player is not gold, so the soft reset should not be (rating +1200)/2...it should be rating previous season, and you get what you got after 1o placements with the same volatility. Players should more frequently end up in low silver and bronze. They are that terrible. The climb should be difficult for everyone, and no more duo q, at least not with anyone far from your own rating. This mode needs to be stricter, as is, it is a joke.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Okay, but in return your four teammates must be bots every time you join ranked. 

[Gundam Style.8495]

2 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Okay, but in return your four teammates must be bots every time you join ranked. 

As long as I fight only one other player with 4 bots.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

5 minutes ago, Gundam Style.8495 said:

As long as I fight only one other player with 4 bots.

Nah, there isn't room for growth if we have the matchmaker even out the bots. theyll all be rated as close to your mmr as possible though!

Unless the game can't find anyone at your mmr in which case lmao buckle up

Edited February 11, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Gundam Style.8495]

2 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Nah, there isn't room for growth if we have the matchmaker even out the bots. theyll all be rated as close to your mmr as possible though!

Unless the game can't find anyone at your mmr in which case lmao buckle up

 Imagine a player who finishes in 900 rating. They played 120+ games the previous season. They finished in 900. The system will do this (1200+900)/2 = 1050....they are 150 points higher than they should be. If they were to start the season just at 900 and let the rating system take care of them, they likely wont leave where they belong, even after hundreds or thousands of games, thanks to bots, we know this to be fact.  It's not a real law, but the law of averages just seems to prevail. It literally can't be proven, but the evidences always points to it being likely.  Counting out cheating, this will solve itself. The seasons should just let the players resume from where they are at, even the top dogs seems to only max out at a certain range and fall or climb. If they received the same rating scheme from where they were, and most players were in silver or bronze, then +1 or +2 with the risk of -20 or -30 would keep their scores the same as well.

 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

22 minutes ago, Gundam Style.8495 said:

 Imagine a player who finishes in 900 rating. They played 120+ games the previous season. They finished in 900. The system will do this (1200+900)/2 = 1050....they are 150 points higher than they should be. If they were to start the season just at 900 and let the rating system take care of them, they likely wont leave where they belong, even after hundreds or thousands of games, thanks to bots, we know this to be fact.  It's not a real law, but the law of averages just seems to prevail. It literally can't be proven, but the evidences always points to it being likely.  Counting out cheating, this will solve itself. The seasons should just let the players resume from where they are at, even the top dogs seems to only max out at a certain range and fall or climb. If they received the same rating scheme from where they were, and most players were in silver or bronze, then +1 or +2 with the risk of -20 or -30 would keep their scores the same as well.

If you feel that at this time not rewarding people who play ranked when they have to queue with up to four other people at random is a good idea, with the matchmaker functioning as it does, I really don't know what to tell you.

Expecting that the solution to ranked involves people queueing into a game where their teammates can turn out to be bots or newer players the matchmaker panic slotted, with absolutely nothing but wasted time to come away with should they lose, is like trying to put out a fire with gas. Nobody is going to gamble that. 

Edited February 11, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Gundam Style.8495]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

If you feel that at this time not rewarding people who play ranked when they have to queue with up to four other people at random is a good idea, with the matchmaker functioning as it does, I really don't know what to tell you.

Expecting that the solution to ranked involves people queueing into a game where their teammates can turn out to be bots or newer players the matchmaker panic slotted, with absolutely nothing but wasted time to come away with should they lose, is like trying to put out a fire with gas. Nobody is going to gamble that. 

Yes, stop rewarding stupidity. Thank you for conceding. Have a good life mate.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

36 minutes ago, Gundam Style.8495 said:

Yes, stop rewarding stupidity. Thank you for conceding. Have a good life mate.

People are weird man

[DoomNexus.5324]

7 hours ago, Gundam Style.8495 said:

Also, the average player is not gold, so the soft reset should not be (rating +1200)/2...

This is pretty much the only thing I can agree with.. average should be in ~silver 2 or something imho.
But everything else gets a hard 'No' from me. With the lack of control you have over basically anything I don't think this is a good idea. Skill is pretty much negligible, there are way too many factors that heavily outweighs individual player skill, like team composition, having bots/throwers in your match, etc.
With basically no real control over the match I don't think it's a good idea to punish people for losing even more.

[Bazsi.2734]

3 hours ago, Gundam Style.8495 said:

You simply can not reward losers or losing. It does not build character or competitive spirit. It does not matter if mcskeevey doesnt want his time wasted. His time needs to be useless when he loses, so his gain will be knowledge and improvment and desire to lose less. Awarding anything for a loss is why most people fail, even in life. You have to hold people accountable. They might feel uncomfortable, but it will cause growth. Why do you think that nothing you tried worked? No balancing worked? Nothing worked? Because you rewarded bots, afkers, and quitters. This is why the mode failed, 100%. Some will say e-sports, or no development, but rewarding losers is why the mode failed. You must, absolutely must, reward only winning. Actually, rating loss should be even more stronger for losses. Also, the average player is not gold, so the soft reset should not be (rating +1200)/2...it should be rating previous season, and you get what you got after 1o placements with the same volatility. Players should more frequently end up in low silver and bronze. They are that terrible. The climb should be difficult for everyone, and no more duo q, at least not with anyone far from your own rating. This mode needs to be stricter, as is, it is a joke.

There are too many matchups decided by the matchmaker, absolute blowouts where the losing team can do absolutely nothing, and earns maybe 20-100 points even though they were legitimately trying all match. The matchup was just so bad you can't even trace it back to a single player on either team why it got so onesided.
So while I sympathize with your goal, I strongly disagree with your implementation. Punishing players for being put on the loser team is not the way to go. Also taking away rewards you already earned is just not a thing in this game.

[Gundam Style.8495]

Watched as everything thing brought didn't work:

New maps? Complaints

New armor? Complaints

New mode? Disgust and no one ever plays it

Another New Mode (2x): Complaints and bot fiesta

Legendary Armor: Complaints and Bots

Ascended Weapons: Complaints and Bots

Gold: You know it, bots bots bots

 

Guess what all these have not brought? More Players. You can't bleed what you don't have. There are not many active pvp'ers anymore, not compared to just even before the mega patch, which was absolute garbage btw.

 

Balance? Complaints, deletion of viability, and even more prominence of bots. The ones defending rewards for participation have zero clue on how competition and rewards should work. When you compete in life, you get results for winning, when you fail at life, you get jack kitten.

 

Free rewards or pips just by afk or getting one stat, and the bots and those that truly don't care, just press auto run in matches, watching netflix or youtube.  You can brain storm all day, but just remove rewards from losing and you will remove most of the crap attitudes from the mode. You can put those rewards you take away from losers and give them to the winners, make winning even more rewarding.

 

Nothing in all these years has made a larger population, or made players better. They are just afk-ing for the easy mode rewards while they do something esle. But it is ok, semi-afk farming is OK, I read it on the forums.There is so much proof that rewarding losses is horrible for competition and the game mode, but the goomba brains on this forums are fighting against it, because most of those are running afk into walls and are negative tier potato players who couldn't win a game even if they were 5 v 1, and the other team dc'd.

[Fueki.4753]

Removing pips for the losing team is a great way to get even more people to stop playing sPvP and incentives grievers to double down on their favourite past time (which causes even more people to stop playing sPvP, in addition to those who leave due to the pips).

 

[Khalisto.5780]

you're in the wrong game dude, if you knew a bit of Anet you'd know that, plus matchmaking being super scuffed  as it is now, makes your idea even worse

 

[Aza.2105]

41 minutes ago, Gundam Style.8495 said:

Watched as everything thing brought didn't work:

New maps? Complaints

New armor? Complaints

New mode? Disgust and no one ever plays it

Another New Mode (2x): Complaints and bot fiesta

Legendary Armor: Complaints and Bots

Ascended Weapons: Complaints and Bots

Gold: You know it, bots bots bots

 

Guess what all these have not brought? More Players. You can't bleed what you don't have. There are not many active pvp'ers anymore, not compared to just even before the mega patch, which was absolute garbage btw.

 

Balance? Complaints, deletion of viability, and even more prominence of bots. The ones defending rewards for participation have zero clue on how competition and rewards should work. When you compete in life, you get results for winning, when you fail at life, you get jack kitten.

 

Free rewards or pips just by afk or getting one stat, and the bots and those that truly don't care, just press auto run in matches, watching netflix or youtube.  You can brain storm all day, but just remove rewards from losing and you will remove most of the crap attitudes from the mode. You can put those rewards you take away from losers and give them to the winners, make winning even more rewarding.

 

Nothing in all these years has made a larger population, or made players better. They are just afk-ing for the easy mode rewards while they do something esle. But it is ok, semi-afk farming is OK, I read it on the forums.There is so much proof that rewarding losses is horrible for competition and the game mode, but the goomba brains on this forums are fighting against it, because most of those are running afk into walls and are negative tier potato players who couldn't win a game even if they were 5 v 1, and the other team dc'd.

Those things you named were never meant to work. The only thing that would of worked is frequent balance patches for spvp. One of the big reasons why players left spvp is due to Anet not really caring about the game mode. Balance patches are infrequent, when they drop they often make things worse. Instead of quickly fixing what isn't good, we have to wait months or sometimes years for them to make a change. Look at the Feb 2020 patch, we still have 300 sec cooldowns! They never went back and revamped those skills.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

1) PvP already has about 0 rewards. People get plenty more gold\shiny stuff from spamming PvE events, the reward for playing PvP is almost 0 anyway
2) MMR is already designed to even players wins and losses
3) Climbing should be difficult, ok, but difficulty should come from facing harder challenges against other players. Not by punishing you even more for daring to participate in a gamemode which already has about 0 to offer in terms of incentives. Reward tracks offer next to nothing, rated season gives you some 6 grandmaster marks every 3 months + some unidentified dies and exotic armor (WOAH!). If everything goes right, you get a title at the end of the season and 1g20s every hour; if I spent that hour doing fractals, I'd get something like 10 times more gold.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

Each game you que for should cost 1 mystic coin, where you get 2 back for winning and none for losing. Also decay should actually lower your rating unless you pay 20g a day.

[Geoff Fey.1035]

@Gundam Style.8495 actually, this was the design of PvP back when they first started bringing out the PvP Reward tracks and it was an utter disaster. Players with lower skill levels had absolutely no incentive to play Ranked and there were barely enough Ranked players to keep the games rolling.

If I remember correctly I believe this was still during the time that you could have teams of 5 (someone correct me if I'm wrong) in Ranked, so you'd literally have these god-tier teams steamrolling anyone they come up against. It was one of the reasons they introduced Duo-Queue ONLY to Ranked because the lack of rewards and sheer skill wall to even playing PvP drove away all but those who wanted a challenge.

It was during this time you actually saw the spike in participation of people in Unranked. I believe Strongholds were now around this time too so lots of people were focusing on those rather than Ranked which became an exclusory mess.

The negative sides of botters, afkers, and quitters were seen as the lesser of 2 evils when compared to having a game mode that only 20-25 people play.

There is nothing in Guild Wars that anyone does without the base-line hope of an in-game reward. This can be achievements, gold, items, skins, etc., but it is something tangible rather than "character growth". It's one of the reasons why you almost never see someone doing tasks in Core Tyria for a heart they've already completed: there's no reward for it.

Using your logic that teams that lose should either receive nothing for their effort (what about cases of 499 vs. 500 points?) or be actively penalized for losing "to build character and growth" would see Ranked PvP die overnight.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

I agree, but I think this post comes off as a little hostile and as a bit of an exaggeration.

A loss should just be a loss, just like in every other game. Especially in the competitive mode, I 100% agree there shouldn't be any pity points.

That's pretty much it though. I don't think there should be even more added penalties for losing, even streaking losses . The penalty for that is having your rating tank hard.

 

[Ashgar.3024]

Unless you permanently duo with a friend on an account 500 MMR (which is how people randomly show up at the end of every ladder with score like 114-6) under yours literally nothing prevents you from hitting streaks of bad lucks in this game.

 

Sometimes you'll just have awful evenings where you can't get paired with anyone decent or the matchmaking fails to do its job or hell maybe you play badly yourself. Losing progress in these situations would literally drive whatever little community the game has left.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Ashgar.3024

[Kovu.7560]

You lose rating. That's good enough.
I've been placed together with with some of the worst players I've run into in the gamemode who also happen to be some of the nicest folks I've had the opportunity to chat with in the game. I actually had a person comment on my toon's hat while they were in downstate and I was trying to revive them. Time and a place buddy. It's the Gold 2-Plat 2 folks whom tend to be toxic and feel the most personally attacked while being on the losing team. Silver/early gold players are like "w/e we know we're bad but we're having fun".
At the end of the day not everyone is playing on the same field (folks have slower reflexes due to age or chronic ailment, others have inherent disabilities.)
The matchmaking in this game is also, uhh, subpar, so there's that. Nothing quite like having the system pair you with a bunch of folks one tier below you several times in a row just to get your win/loss ratio closer to 50/50.

~ Kovu

[Gundam Style.8495]

9 hours ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

@Gundam Style.8495 actually, this was the design of PvP back when they first started bringing out the PvP Reward tracks and it was an utter disaster. Players with lower skill levels had absolutely no incentive to play Ranked and there were barely enough Ranked players to keep the games rolling.

If I remember correctly I believe this was still during the time that you could have teams of 5 (someone correct me if I'm wrong) in Ranked, so you'd literally have these god-tier teams steamrolling anyone they come up against. It was one of the reasons they introduced Duo-Queue ONLY to Ranked because the lack of rewards and sheer skill wall to even playing PvP drove away all but those who wanted a challenge.

It was during this time you actually saw the spike in participation of people in Unranked. I believe Strongholds were now around this time too so lots of people were focusing on those rather than Ranked which became an exclusory mess.

The negative sides of botters, afkers, and quitters were seen as the lesser of 2 evils when compared to having a game mode that only 20-25 people play.

There is nothing in Guild Wars that anyone does without the base-line hope of an in-game reward. This can be achievements, gold, items, skins, etc., but it is something tangible rather than "character growth". It's one of the reasons why you almost never see someone doing tasks in Core Tyria for a heart they've already completed: there's no reward for it.

Using your logic that teams that lose should either receive nothing for their effort (what about cases of 499 vs. 500 points?) or be actively penalized for losing "to build character and growth" would see Ranked PvP die overnight.

You made up a bunch of stuff. I reccomend you take that talent into writing books. But, pvp...is not your outlet. They can't reward losses anymore. It had to end. But, if I am wrong...please, go ahead and link I'm wrong. I really dont care how many come up and say "I member too". Show proof.

[Gundam Style.8495]

9 minutes ago, Kovu.7560 said:

You lose rating. That's good enough.
I've been placed together with with some of the worst players I've run into in the gamemode who also happen to be some of the nicest folks I've had the opportunity to chat with in the game. I actually had a person comment on my toon's hat while they were in downstate and I was trying to revive them. Time and a place buddy. It's the Gold 2-Plat 2 folks whom tend to be toxic and feel the most personally attacked while being on the losing team. Silver/early gold players are like "w/e we know we're bad but we're having fun".
At the end of the day not everyone is playing on the same field (folks have slower reflexes due to age or chronic ailment, others have inherent disabilities.)
The matchmaking in this game is also, uhh, subpar, so there's that. Nothing quite like having the system pair you with a bunch of folks one tier below you several times in a row just to get your win/loss ratio closer to 50/50.

~ Kovu

And gain no pips. That can be the middle ground. Lose, get kitten. That's it.

[Gundam Style.8495]

9 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Each game you que for should cost 1 mystic coin, where you get 2 back for winning and none for losing. Also decay should actually lower your rating unless you pay 20g a day.

They should make the dishonor penalties harsher. Desertion is 24hrs. Missing queue is 5 hrs. Stop accepting unacceptable behavior and it will stop.

[Paradoxoglanis.1904]

7 minutes ago, Gundam Style.8495 said:

They should make the dishonor penalties harsher. Desertion is 24hrs. Missing queue is 5 hrs. Stop accepting unacceptable behavior and it will stop.

also your teammates should be able to report you and give you dishonor for making bad rotations

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

5 minutes ago, Gundam Style.8495 said:

Hostility to accepting giving gifts to losers. Grow up, be brave and say what you feel or think , not what you think will be accepted. Wimp.

https://i.imgur.com/lNWggjX.png

This line of thinking will never allow anything to be done. Losing is losing, winning is winning. That's generally what's accepted, and that's also what I feel. Losing doesn't need to be losing and then something more. How would they even remove pips if someone got a chest? Would it delete the rewards from your inventory?

Freebie pips should just go to Unranked or away, and it should be left at that.

I wish you peace and harmony, and I hope you find CMC and welcome them into your life. 🙏