Could specter be viable in raids/strikes now that every class will have a 5 target cap?

[Sodeni.6041]

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-end-of-dragons-strike-missions-balance-and-rewards/

In this blogpost the developers talk about target caps and how 10 man boon share will be removed across all classes.

This lets me think that specter could actually be viable in raids and strike missions but what do you think?

 

I also wonder if full viper will have enough boon uptime for a boon support, has anyone tested it out in the beta? I want to gear up my thief for EoD now to be prepared and would appreciate advice 😄

Edited February 12, 2022 by Sodeni.6041

[Zacchary.6183]

For condi/support, it is definitely going to be the new Ritualist stat. And specter will probably be an option so long as they keep its healing as high as it is. A few thieves and I have been mulling over numbers and raid builds and we all feel that it might actually be possible to ignore most mechanics and even enrage a bit through sheer superior healing.

[Vidit.7108]

With raids it will depend on the encounter. It still lacks stability and needs a lot of wells to upkeep alacrity leaving it with really only one utility for serious support. So it has a better chance as a boon supporter. That said it's healing isn't great, it's barely in the secondary healer slot, and just probably won't do much of that. There could be groups just looking for it to give alacrity and do damage though and that might be fine.

Anet still hasn't told us what the durations will look like on launch, or any final healing or damage numbers. 

[Zacchary.6183]

37 minutes ago, Vidit.7108 said:

That said it's healing isn't great, it's barely in the secondary healer slot, and just probably won't do much of that.

The base heal for Traversing Dusk and Shadow Savior combined with the baseline outgoing healing bonus of Dark Sentry makes every shadowstep aoe heal for over 1.5k and a full Consume Shadows can consistently put out 5-digit heals, potentially in a span of every 12 seconds. That isn't bad by a longshot. So long as anet doesn't gut both of those traits again, a healnuke specter per subgroup is definitely enough to ignore most mechanics.

[Vidit.7108]

23 minutes ago, Zacchary.6183 said:

That isn't bad by a longshot. So long as anet doesn't gut both of those traits again, a healnuke specter per subgroup is definitely enough to ignore most mechanics.

I don't disagree that it might be enough healing in a raid, especially in the right group, but it's likely paired with something that can heal better. Especially since it doesn't really have any group cleanses besides signet of agility iirc. It's also just going to be valued more for damage when so many healers are better. Though this is all still speculation since we don't know final numbers.

[Zacchary.6183]

6 minutes ago, Vidit.7108 said:

I don't disagree that it might be enough healing in a raid, especially in the right group, but it's likely paired with something that can heal better. Especially since it doesn't really have any group cleanses besides signet of agility iirc. It's also just going to be valued more for damage when so many healers are better. Though this is all still speculation since we don't know final numbers.

Probably. I'm currently talking with a thief who regularly does raids as a thief and we're working on an all thief comp for a w7 test on specter's capabilities. Right now we have main healer and a condi offhealer build, both with promising numbers. So we'll see how that goes.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Definitely viable, but not optimal.  The raid comp is going to end up looking just like the fractal comp, which uses Renegade + Healbrand for good reason.  This comp caps out on... basically every boon except for Resistance and Vigor.  One way or another, the new comp is going to be built around Firebrand.  Primarily because of Aegis, but all of the fury, might, regeneration, protection, stability and resolution is also a big help.  The renegade complements this by giving out alacrity while, in conjunction with the healbrand, capping out protection, resolution, and might, and also providing a massive amount of vulnerability to enemies.

This is the weight that sits on the Specter's Shoulders, and quite frankly I do not think it can do it.  If working with a healbrand, the shoes it will need to fill include capping might, alacrity, protection, and vulnerability.  Nobody really cares about resolution or resistance.  The trickery line gives out small amounts of boons, but the only notable one not fully covered by a healbrand is vigor.  The Specter line itself is pretty light on boons, only giving out alacrity reliably.  Well of Bounty, the primary source for group boons, has the bad habit of giving out boons no one cares about and not loading up on boons that people do care about.  This leaves the Specter with an inability to stack might or patch the holes in other boons.

If we switch it up and make the Specter the team healer and instead use a quickbrand... the situation isn't improved any.  Quickbrands don't provide as wide a variety of boons, which will make Well of Bounty more useful but overall group performance greatly diminished, due to relying on Well of Bounty to handle protection, regeneration, might, and stability.  Firebrand as a healer simply gives out more boons more reliably than Specter does.  

 

You know, when I said that Anet was going to nerf the boon output of earlier E-specs to make the EoD specs look good, I said it as a joke.  It was funny because it was a bad idea that could only be arrived at with backward logic. I didn't expect Anet to actually do this.  Since Anet removed 10-man might and alacrity, they have rendered the EoD e-specs DOA.  Those specs are going to played for novelty and in very-casual groups, because any serious look at what they do is going to reveal just how inferior they are to the Healbrand + Alacrigade combo.  The only one that might be able to compete with what Alacrigade does is the Mechanist, but that one relies on a fickle pet to get the job done. 

[Zacchary.6183]

@Blood Red Arachnid.2493 I'm not going to hold my breath on this, but there is a chance anet may close that gap by throttling the boon output of firebrand. That could mean either they transfer some boon coverage to other professions or keep the boons on firebrand but drop the durations so low that they'd be there for flavor. But if anet really wants to achieve their goals, they're going to have to destroy the boon meta.

[Raiken.1476]

It's all up in the air right now and it depends entirely on the final tuning.

 

Currently, its pure DPS build damage is a bit too high in groups, but the alacrity from wells is weak, requiring lots of wells and it loses a ton of DPS running an alacrity build. Ritualist stats will help with alacrity builds for sure. Depends how good the DPS will be after the tuning when it's got enough wells to cap alacrity for the subgroup.

[Shade.8971]

As a hybrid alac option, maybe. Depends on encounter. Alac specter on TL, for example, sounds like a bad idea. Competing against the insane dps of RR is the biggest obstacle every alac hybrid will have to face. Utility is kinda meh. Hopefully the new stat will help. As the heal only spot i doubt it. When druid gets its unique buffs nerfed, heal tempest would be the next best option if it remains untouched. 

At least we are not a quickness hybrid option. With the new ritualist stat, cQB will be the uncontested king across nearly every encounter. Firebrands are in need of a dire nerf if the devs are trying to push diversity.