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More Info on Strike Missions, Balance, and Rewards in End of Dragons


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You guys could have at very least added some sink for the CM currency as trade back for no coins anymore. Literally anything would be nice, as for now, there is very little reason to do them other than the one time purchases. I guarantee that if something was given back, there wouldn't be so much of blow up from your community.

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6 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

The real problem is the fact that there will be no real incentive to farm Fractal CM once the Mystic Coins are removed.

The real incentive to farm CMs was always to get 100 relics per clear, as that is what actually makes pursuit towards fractal god bearable.  Also bonus fractal research pages (that are one of the hard-timegated things in fractals in general), so CMs do speed up the progression for fractal rewards greatly, which is the point why to play them.

 

The actual gold bonus is nice, but it just is a thing you can get anywhere else so not really incentive to play exactly this.

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I understand the point is to make MCs a reward for a more accessible content to everyone. And you have my full support about that point.

As stated by other playmates, why removing MCs from CMs considering the minor impact on economy? Makes no sense to me with your explanations. You are not spreading any love moving a loot to another content while you were concerned it was only obtainable in a single content. You are just moving the problem somewhere else (even though it's more accessible) and don't solve anything. And you don't even address this point today.

On the discounted clover subject, you basically just said to us it was not very used so you don't seem to care if it cost more... Welp. This is not how you make people use it, to the point it makes me feel like it shouldn't even exist. Your message is straight "keep the mystic forge gambling for clover going".

"This change will not have any real impact on Mystic Coin supply, consumption, or prices across the player population."

Sure, but it increases the price of clovers in comparison to the previous fractal vendor. Wasn't the point to make legendary more accessible to everyone?

While I thank you about giving us some numbers, I still feel you missed the point of the rants. Removing rewards from HL content is a low blow. How do you push new players to harder content if it seems not worth the efforts?

Feels like salt into the wound to me.

 

Edited by Eleazar.9036
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1 hour ago, Wolfb.7025 said:

Thanks for the clarification.

Although I have to ask, if the MCs from Fractals CM had little impact on the MC overall supply, why remove it from the rewards anyways? Fractals CMs are less profitable and harder to do than a Daily T4 and now it feels like some sort of punishment rather than a rebalance on rewards-

 

1 hour ago, The Urps.8379 said:

This! Absolutely this. 

 

We get punished. If the hard content of CM has so little impact why not slighty nerf the drop rate, and add extra coins to the EoD Strikes. There are more MC sinks, why not have more MCs available overall... 



Imagine rewarding hard content kekw
"fractal coins don't matter because they are so small but we are removing them because imagine rewarding 'hard' content"

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"The feeling of working hard for something and finding out it’s going to be easily accessible to others in the future can feel bad, and that feeling is real and valid. But you’ve made a ton of tangible progress in fractal Challenge Modes and other people having access to that in the future doesn’t take away from everything you’ve accomplished."



This part of the post is very strange...i don't think i seen anyone complaining that mystic coins will be more accessible. People are mad that the only challenging content is getting tuned down for casual one, which is completely different reason. We would be happy if both gave.

 

If mystic coins is such a rare source in CM fractals, why in the world would you remove it from CM and not the highest one instead? They should have added them to dailies so people have to work for it rather than get a millio login in accounts. But this move felt like a complete kick in the kitten of hardcore players just for laughs, because the price will be barely affected otherwise.

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This is an unfair resume about the losts by removing Mc and doubling the "discounted" Mystic Clovers price.

Assuming we are not selling the Mc,  on every run we are losing more than 1g on each fractal and around 3g in total of rewards, then in the other way because we dont have any resource to get Mc we need to buy those Mc from the trading post in a doubled amount because now we need two Mc instead of one to purchase the Mystic Clovers (in a reduced amount), so we need to expend 3,4g on the trading post to purchase the Mc.

In resume "less than 3g of lost" is an unfair resume, the trhut is we are losing around 6,4g on each run 2,1g on each fractal. Of course, assuming the Mc prices will get back in price instead of increasing his price, because whit the actual price the losts are bigger. Numbers ignoring the thing now we only can get 10 Mystic Clovers each week instead of 14.

About the drop from 14 clovers to 10 each week, you simply are forcing us to do more content to get the same rewards. Fortunately i'm a veteran raid player whit a great static and this change doesn't affect me because i will can pruchase until 20 each week instead 14, but this is unfair for the people that only does fractals.

 

This make me have a couple of questions:

-If the 93% of the Mystic Coins come from the loging reward how exaclty removing it from fractals and adding it to strikes can make the Mc drop in half his price to match whit the new doubled price of the "discounted" Mystic Clovers?

-If using your own words "we are losing less than 1g per fractal CM", why you are removing it? if you say it is a "very very low loss" why you dont keep it and make us happy? We are not asking much.

 

About make more people enter to the fractals Challenge Mode

More Fractals coins and 3 Integrated fractal matrix are not enought to compensate all the effort required to learn and do an efficient and good fractal cm run whit random people no matter how many times you tell to us there are, i did during the last 200 days fractals Cm each day, we are the people playing this content, not you and we are telling to you, these are not enought rewards to continue doing it.

We can deal whit the doubled price of the "discounted" Mystic Clovers or whit no Mc as rewads, but no whit both at the same time.

So stop telling to us we are exaggerating and give us back the Mc or give us something to compensate the changes.

 

Personal thoughts

I was very expectant about EoD and after this announce i was searching during the last days a reason to no quit the game, the only reason i found is the hope to see the Mc in half of his price 0,85g, but probably this will never happend and i will leave the game some time after the release to another game more fair whit the effort.

Thanks for the clarifications but i dont wanna read how you tell to me why i'm playing this content, i know much better than yours why i'm playing this, so stop treating me like if i'm stupid and trying to trick me. We are mad and we have a good reasons to it.

Edited by Xtrem.4931
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Agree with other posters that if the MC from fractals was such a low % then keep it in.

And being a raider with all 3 armors and close to full li  (2k) in the bank, can you introduce a LI/LD sink please so we dont have to trash the new rewards you put in.

I know its not meant for people like me but it should be something to turn them into or trade for right?

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Okay i have some questions to the people complaining:

1) Do you think its fair that Fractals is the MOST rewarding instanced content by far, and that is very unaccesible for new players? see strikes rewards right now, dogshit, even dungeons are better. Raids? not even close and takes a lot of effort and organization.

2) Do you think adding 40 MC to strikes and keeping the rewards for CMs is not gonna impact the economy? i mean gw2 has a lot of players and LOADS are casuals, so ofc the stats are gonna be there. But that doesnt change the fact that there will be too many in the market and it will impact the price and the general overview of the currency. 

3) Last but not least, you, really veteran players that claim to have 1412414 legendarys, do you really need the money? ofc you dont. You are overloeaded with money already, you have nearly everything, maybe just to buy the new gemstuff skins by overfarming fractals aswell as  the new strikes reward? oh god lord. So what about the fun and the challenge? and that its still rewarding.

Please anet, if you ever change this decision, just add like 0-1 rng drop of mistic coins to CM fractals, dont put it back as it was also with the new rewards of strikes. 

Edited by Izzy.2951
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It is interesting thought. 

Why removing MC from Fractals, when they are insignificant portion of the MC income? If they really add only miniature amount of the income and apparently barely anyone earns them this way... Why not reward people who try challenging content and instead reward...   repetetive strike missions?

If you need to do all strikes twice a week for month to earn 40 MC but you need to do Fractal CMs daily for month to get 54 MC...   you are literally saying you need to increase reward from Fractal CM. Yet it is being decreased...  why?

This is just a desperate attempt to push more people into playing Strike missions. I do Raids weekly since their introduction. I do Fractals twice a week. I have no time for boring Strike missions...   

There is no real challenge in strikes...  you learn them once, they will be same forever, no instabilities...    No interesting infusions to drop...  No long term goal or title to achieve (Fractal god), No unique legendary item to get from them (Ad Infinitum), no story at all (the Ark & Dessa storyline is the best to this day), no interesting mechanics so far (I still have no clue what is the mechanic for Boneskinner...   Try ignoring mechanics on Arkk). 

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I'd like to see the actual notes on these things. There's valuable feedback to be had, especially from people who've done extensive beta testing, before fractal CMs get totally abandoned and the new elite specs get released to a broken state of the game.

Edited by Raiken.1476
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Yay! More Legendary Insights! What a reward! My collection of 2040 LI and 3 legendary armor sets is too small...   

It is so funny that people who claim to have 14141414 legendarys are complaining about this change, that just blows my mind. If it was a new player that just got into fractals CM spending a lot of effort. But these people that dont need the money at all, that have everything in the game, maybe just to get the new gemstuff for free yikes... its just idk. Just get your MC from strikes, and keep doing fractals CMs if you like them, they will still be rewarding and something complementary to do, ofc much more easy and fast than raids (lets not talk about dungeons).

 

Edited by Izzy.2951
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30 minutes ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

I can understand the situation better, but the problem isn't the Mystic Coins themselves, the Mystic Coins just happen to be the item the problem revolves around. 

The real problem is the fact that there will be no real incentive to farm Fractal CM once the Mystic Coins are removed. It doesn't matter what the average probability of someone getting MC in a Fractal CM run is, what matters most is that MC is an incentive to farm CM Fractals which means that people played the content even if the RNG is stacked against them because it incentivised playing CM Fractals. 

All this is doing is pushing the incentive from CM Fractals to Strike Missions, that's not a justification, that's blatant disregard of the actual problemYou need to provide an alternative incentive to CM Fractals. Without any real incentive (Ima repeat that word cuz that's the key to this entire problem) to play CM Fractals, what's the point of having CM Fractals? People will just run regular Fractals because its rewards would be near identical to CM once the coins are removed. 

You can either provide something different to Strike Missions and keep the Mystic Coins in CM Fractals or actually provide a proper alternative incentive to Mystic Coins in CM Fractals because right now it sounds like no one at ANet actually wants to solve the problem and just wants to blurt out words to justify a flawed decision. 

You do use some pretty harsh words, but the point that they make, while disagreeable to some, is mainly that there is a just reason to attempt to not just push the fractal rewards to the new EoD Strike Missions, but also the population. What is the justification? Well, based on their words, it seems that A) They are appealing to the "majority" of Strike Mission players, as opposed to FractalCM players, and B) that Strike Missions are newer content and they intend to push players in that direction. How to get players to play that content, if some are still hung over on older content? Easy, drag the carrot over to the newer one.

 

Where did I get these points from? Well, from their stance it is clear: "Strike Missions are much more accessible than fractal Challenge Modes and are played by significantly more people—and we hope to grow participation numbers in Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons." Two parts to that message. 1) Player population. You have to know that they are not looking at this from some individual player perspective, they are looking at it from a macro perspective. Strike Missions are more popular. And so they created new Strike Missions for EoD. Simple, right? 2) Hoping to grow participation. Obviously, if no one plays the expac content, the expac has essentially failed. Thus, they want more people to play the Strikes in the expac, not just the existing majority. Ok, we got the reasoning for why. Now onto the next reason: The what, or players.

 

Quote: "Players who don't have access to some of the more difficult sources of legendary crafting resources like fractal CMs and the fractal Mystic Clover trade will be able to earn incremental legendary progress from easier sources, particularly Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons Strike Missions." Pretty simple. Their point is that Strike Missions are "easier" than Fractal CMS. Thus, it makes sense and would be generous to make the rewards more accessible to the majority

 

MAIN POINT

Overall, the point they seem to be making is this: Fractal CM players do not need help with clearing content. They can just as easily move to Strike Missions - if they care about the rewards (Note that some play just for fun and not for rewards). However, the reverse is not the same. There are those that might not be able to reach the Fractal CMs, but want to dip their toes in endgame content and get better through Strike Missions (which is what EoD is presenting, after all.) Thus it makes sense to simply move the rewards to Strike Missions, which accomplishes all the goals I set above (Increased population for expac, accessibility to more casual players), and appeals to the majority (remember Fractal CM players are a minority in the macro perspective). The more skilled FractalCM players are perfectly free to come over to Strikes and get the rewards if they care to do so. They won't have issue clearing the content. The only real change is that the rewards are moving to a more casual content. For Strike players - this is great. For FractalCM players - if you want the rewards - go to Strikes, otherwise you do whatever you've already been doing. 

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7 minutes ago, Izzy.2951 said:

Okay i have some questions to the people complaining:

1) Do you think its fair that Fractals is the MOST rewarding instanced content by far, and that is very unaccesible for new players? see strikes rewards right now, dogshit, even dungeons are better. Raids? not even close and takes a lot of effort and organization.

2) Do you think adding 40 MC to strikes and keeping the rewards for CMs is not gonna impact the economy? i mean gw2 has a lot of players and LOADS are casuals, so ofc the stats are gonna be there. But that doesnt change the fact that there will be too many in the market and it will impact the price and the general overview of the currency. 

3) Last but not least, you, really veteran players that claim to have 1412414 legendarys, do you really need the money? ofc you dont. You are overloeaded with money already, you have nearly everything, maybe just to buy the new gemstuff skins by overfarming fractals aswell as  the new strikes reward? oh god lord. So what about the fun and the challenge? and that its still rewarding.

Please anet, if you ever change this decision, just add like 0-1 rng drop of mistic coins to CM fractals, dont put it back as it was also with the new rewards of strikes. 

 

1) I think it should be spread among all PVE game modes (raids/fractals/strikes/dungeons etc...). "Spreading love" as they said. Moving it again to just one content doesn't solve anything. It's just a bit more accessible but 10 man content still is a huge barrier for a lot of casuals.

 

2) Again, you spread it among the different game modes in small amounts so you don't break the economy. It's not about just the CMs. I rant because it's once again exclusive to a single PVE content and the choice they made doesn't really push the players toward harder content. The problem with CMs is just that they removed a loot that pushes players to do it and they didn't even think to replace it with something else. The concern is that we may lose CMs players (and don't have new ones) because of that decision and it will be more difficult to find groups on a content that a few people play and that we enjoy.

 

3) I don't understand what is your point. Are you ranting about veterans? Rich people? Fractal farmers that aren't necessary CMs players that just do it on a daily basis? You mix up too much things in here. Cms players aren't necessary the Barons you seem to target.

 

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23 minutes ago, Petr.4102 said:


There is no real challenge in strikes...  you learn them once, they will be same forever, no instabilities...    No interesting infusions to drop...  No long term goal or title to achieve (Fractal god), No unique legendary item to get from them (Ad Infinitum), no story at all (the Ark & Dessa storyline is the best to this day), no interesting mechanics so far (I still have no clue what is the mechanic for Boneskinner...   Try ignoring mechanics on Arkk). 

 

1st you are already saying that Fractals are already rewarding even without the rng mistic coin with all the stuff they have (titles, skins etc etc..). You still havent played the new strikes and you are already saying they are boring, you dont know if theres gonna be a title or a long term achivement, you dont know how Strikes CMs even are, or if theres gonna be cool skins/infusions or watever.

Basically what i get from here is "oh i was doing this", i spent a lot of time to get my fractal god title and i dont want it to ever change. Even if new/returnee ppl cant access it, even if its OP compared to any other thing... cool stuff.

Isnt fractals as repetitive as all instanced content once you know the mechanics?  appart that you need ascended gear, a certain amount of AR and fractal god to earn more rewards XD 

Edited by Izzy.2951
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2 minutes ago, Eleazar.9036 said:

 

1) I think it should be spread among all PVE game modes (raids/fractals/strikes/dungeons etc...). "Spreading love" as they said. Moving it again to just one content doesn't solve anything. It's just a bit more accessible but 10 man content still is a huge barrier for a lot of casuals.

[...]

 I rant because it's once again exclusive to a single PVE content and the choice they made doesn't really push the players toward harder content. The problem with CMs is just that they removed a loot that pushes players to do it and they didn't even think to replace it with something else.

The main way to push people to endgame PvE content is to first get them to try such content. You are thinking of moving people from Dungeons to Strikes/Fractals to Raids, and such. But the main population of the game is stuck in Open World. Some don't know that Strikes are a thing. You have to get them into the system before you can upgrade them and get them to harder content like CMs. There is such a large percentage of people playing GW2 that only play Open World. Oftentimes, because of the split communities that GW2 has, we don't see those people as a majority. And its fine if all they want to do is explore Tyria, but the main issue is that some don't even know this content exists.

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1 minute ago, Izzy.2951 said:

It is so funny that people who claim to have 14141414 legendarys are complaining about this change, that just blows my mind. If it was a new player that just got into fractals CM spending a lot of effort. But these people that dont need the money at all, that have everything in the game, maybe just to get the new gemstuff for free yikes... its just idk. Just get your MC from strikes, and keep doing fractals CMs if you like them, they will still be rewarding and something complementary to do, ofc much more easy and fast than raids (lets not talk about dungeons).


Actually, for me for example, Raids, Fractals and Festivals are mostly all the content I do after all those years. I get like 60-80g and and 15 LI and 10 LD. So per week it is 1 of those "tokens" per 3-4g. LIs are actually pretty abundant once you can clear the raids and are currently only for legendary armors. It is vendor trash with no price that you are unwilling to trash, as you had to fight for it...  so it just fills your alts when your material storage have overflown.

The point is: doing "same repetetive unchallenging barely-rewarding content " (strikes) is boring. Doing "less repetetive (once a week) somewhat challeging content with decent rewards" (raids) is fun. Fractals are inbetween. Somewhat challenging, really repetetive, yet provided interesting unique rewards and goals.
 
Doing challenging stuff without good reward...    I will do it once. I have proven to myself I can do it, no need to do it ever again (Dhuum and other Raid CMs)...    unless there is monetary (matrices, MC, infusions, gold weapons) reward or long term goal (Fractal god).

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This is a bad change that shouldn't be implemented without adjustments, and this dev post (while appreciated) is missing the point.

Adding more sources of Mystic Coins to more types of gameplay? Good.
Improving/broadening the path to legendary stuff for players of all skill levels? Good.
Removing incentive loot from challenging content? Bad, de-incentivizes CMs, reduces participants in an already small community.
Removing sources of Mystic Coins that are stated to be less than 7% of total MC generation? Unnecessary, doesn't solve the distribution issue.
Leaving the highest Mystic Coin generation source untouched when considering ways to regulate the MC economy? Bad.

People aren't annoyed by the idea of casual players being able to earn more rewards, they're annoyed that those rewards are being removed from one type of content and added to another instead of being shared by both. You can't seriously say you want to 'spread the love' by removing the love from one thing and plunking it on another thing. Spreading means applying the 'love' to multiple things, and that's what you should do with things like Mystic Coins.

Serious question, but did we forget that strikes are touted as 'ramps' to more difficult content like challenge modes and raids? Who's going to bother if the rewards aren't there? You don't have to make part of your game worse to make another part of it better.

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2 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

Okay i have some questions to the people complaining:

1) Do you think its fair that Fractals is the MOST rewarding instanced content by far, and that is very unaccesible for new players? see strikes rewards right now, dogshit, even dungeons are better. Raids? not even close and takes a lot of effort and organization.

2) Do you think adding 40 MC to strikes and keeping the rewards for CMs is not gonna impact the economy? i mean gw2 has a lot of players and LOADS are casuals, so ofc the stats are gonna be there. But that doesnt change the fact that there will be too many in the market and it will impact the price and the general overview of the currency. 

3) Last but not least, you, really veteran players that claim to have 1412414 legendarys, do you really need the money? ofc you dont. You are overloeaded with money already, you have nearly everything, maybe just to buy the new gemstuff skins by overfarming fractals aswell as  the new strikes reward? oh god lord. So what about the fun and the challenge? and that its still rewarding.

Please anet, if you ever change this decision, just add like 0-1 rng drop of mistic coins to CM fractals, dont put it back as it was also with the new rewards of strikes. 

1) No, the other rewarding instanced content should have an equal reward. Raids and strikes rewards are unexistend, almost raids have the incentive of the legendary armor.

2) if the 93% of the actual mystic coins comes from the daily login, No. Also don mistake casuals whit strike player, these are differents. The majory of the people never touched strikes, fractals or raids.

3)Why we cant want money to purchase cool things? why we are the enemy?  we have the same righs as you to ask a fair reward for our efforts. We are not asking the removing of the Mc in strikes, we are happy if the mystic coins can be more accesible for everyone. The opposite of you, you are happy because we  worked a lot to get those reward and you dont want to get the same reward, you want to remove it from us "because you guys have so many things".

The fun of the challenge reward can die after you killed the same boss more than 100 times and you need to find each day a random people that does not always give the level to do fractals cm.

We like this content and we only wants to let this content leting us purchasing cool things doing a thing we like, whit this changes the rewards and the effort are not fair.

2 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

It is so funny that people who claim to have 14141414 legendarys are complaining about this change, that just blows my mind. If it was a new player that just got into fractals CM spending a lot of effort. But these people that dont need the money at all, that have everything in the game, maybe just to get the new gemstuff for free yikes... its just idk. Just get your MC from strikes, and keep doing fractals CMs if you like them, they will still be rewarding and something complementary to do, ofc much more easy and fast than raids (lets not talk about dungeons).

 

He only asked a thing to do whit the excess of Li because after you reach 900 there is no uses for it.

Why those other people is better than us and they really need the gold and us no? We worked a lot to have those things and we have the same rights as the new people to get gold in the contend we like.

No, i did a good amount of strikes and i dont like it. You wanna force me to play a content i dont like to get less rewards and you are asking to me why i'm complaining about it.

Edited by Xtrem.4931
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9 minutes ago, Xtrem.4931 said:

3)Why we cant want money to purchase cool things? why we are the enemy?  we have the same righs as you to ask a fair reward for our efforts. We are not asking the removing of the Mc in strikes, we are happy if the mystic coins can be more accesible for everyone. The opposite of you, you are happy because we  worked a lot to get those reward and you dont want to get the same reward, you want to remove it from us "because you guys have s many things".

 

 

I mean you are saying in other words, i can make x100 times more money in GW2 than a new/returnee player (not by being more skilled or playing more), just cos i have sitted in GW2 for ages, have full ascended with good AR and a title that grants me more loot. Idk if thats really fair, dont you think?

Im not saying challenging content should be rewarding, im just saying by the metrics Fractals are wayyyy more rewarding than any other content and its very unacesible, the devs have already stated theres loads of more people playing Strikes (even with bad rewards) than Fractals CM.

I dont think that GW2 will grow by denying access to new/returnee people to content (cos gear needed or cos difficulty jumps). I mean you are already gonna make much more gold than any other player in EoD cos you will do Fractals CMs, raids etc, have alts on chests etc... but just not as much with fractals cms, thats the real point.

PD: i will leave fractals CM with 0-1 rng drop of mistic coin, thats my thoughts.

Edited by Izzy.2951
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