How the story in GW2 usually goes

[Tazer.2157]

Enter a location

NPC gives you a quest

Obtain a special action key to complete the said quest

Have Taimi's voice in head directing you to the second location

Leave for location B

This is how the game's story and quest has been designed. I mean WHY? In Thunderhead keep, we get this amazing dredge camp and we are asked to help rid the camp of branded crystals. Usually another game would have us interact with the dredge miners, see  what they have learned about the crystal and then find a solution. But in GW2, you walk up to the crystal, you press your special action key, Aurene swoops in and helps you and then Taimi utters some nonsense. This is making the world the world feel a LOT smaller. Stop having Taimi come up with most solutions, use other characters in the game. Tell a longer story. I am so sick of dragons watch or whatever its called. Please disband the group so that you can finally focus on the world and not on the problems of a few characters that are unlikable. 

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

2 hours ago, Tazer.2157 said:

Enter a location

NPC gives you a quest

Obtain a special action key to complete the said quest

Have Taimi's voice in head directing you to the second location

Leave for location B

This is how the game's story and quest has been designed. I mean WHY? In Thunderhead keep, we get this amazing dredge camp and we are asked to help rid the camp of branded crystals. Usually another game would have us interact with the dredge miners, see  what they have learned about the crystal and then find a solution. But in GW2, you walk up to the crystal, you press your special action key, Aurene swoops in and helps you and then Taimi utters some nonsense. This is making the world the world feel a LOT smaller. Stop having Taimi come up with most solutions, use other characters in the game. Tell a longer story. I am so sick of dragons watch or whatever its called. Please disband the group so that you can finally focus on the world and not on the problems of a few characters that are unlikable. 

I think this way of seeing things is a bit excessive.

 

Only LWS2 was Taimi-heavy. In LWS3, she was mostly just a voice on a communicator, and didn't show up until the end, in LWS4 she's mostly replaced by Gorrik and Blish, and in IBS she's replaced by Gorrik entirely.

 

SPOILERS FOR LIVING WORLD SEASON 4

On top of this, destroying the crystals in that scenario was the entire plot point. The Dredge didn't know anything about the crystals, and the only reason the Commander could destroy them was because Aurene is connected to Kralkatorrik by lineage, and its vulnerable to its own resonance and that of its minions and family members.

 

There was literally an entire mission of Glint showing the Commander how to use their bond with Aurene to wield this magic, and Its the entire backbone of the plot for The Crystal Dragon.

 

Why do the people always complaining about the story not actually seem to be paying attention to it?

Edited February 19, 2022 by Hannelore.8153

[Tazer.2157]

55 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Only LWS2 was Taimi-heavy. In LWS3, she was mostly just a voice on a communicator, and didn't show up until the end, in LWS4 she's mostly replaced by Gorrik and Blish, and in IBS she's replaced by Gorrik entirely.

Its the same whether its Taimi, Gorrik or Blish. Where are the other institutes in Tyria: the priory, the Asuran council, etc? Are Taimi, Gorrik and Blish the most important characters that we would fail to do anything without them? 

55 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

SPOILERS FOR LIVING WORLD SEASON 4

On top of this, destroying the crystals in that scenario was the entire plot point. The Dredge didn't know anything about the crystals, and the only reason the Commander could destroy them was because Aurene is connected to Kralkatorrik by lineage, and its vulnerable to its own resonance and that of its minions and family members.

The dredge are miners. The are a race with brain cells. The main story can surely have us interact with all these different races. Instead season after season its the same people from Dragon's watch. No one else matters.  

55 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

There was literally an entire mission of Glint showing the Commander how to use their bond with Aurene to wield this magic, and Its the entire backbone of the plot for The Crystal Dragon.

Oh please. This is storytelling to form a plot and the logic in coming p with this went as follows: 

1. Hmm how would we beat Kralkatorrik? 

2. Maybe have Glint give us magic powers to destroy his crystals. 

3. Yea good idea man. 

Lazy and boring. 

 

55 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Why do the people always complaining about the story not actually seem to be paying attention to it?

If I did not pay attention to the story, I would not waste my time coming in here and complaining about it. I deeply care about the story and how its gotten worse season after season with the final conclusion being Dragonstone. Yeah, we all know how that went. 

Ironically, there couldn't have been a more fitting end to the story. Only wish Jormag and Primordius took dragon's watch with them. Maybe then we can interact with people OUTSIDE dragon's watch. 

[LSD.4673]

People have been begging to be rid of Taimi for years. She's been deus exing the story for so long that her "illness" in Suns Refuge made me hope maybe the devs had realised it too...

...but no. Still a shrill voice in the ear. Her voice actor's the only genuinely good one in the game, and i've grown to despise her.

[Narcemus.1348]

I think I can understand the struggle a little bit. I personally love Taimi, but I do get tired of the trope that the Asura always have the answer. In one of the core game's original trailers there was a debate among the races about their differing viewpoints on the world which I found interesting. My favorite was the Sylvari talking down to the Asura about how magic worked. But it was, in the end, boiled down to the Asura tech FTW! Not to say the other races haven't collaborated, but they have definitely taken a back seat.

 

It almost makes me think back to the viewpoints of the major orders as well and how the opinion of the Order of Whispers that the dragons needed to be put to sleep and not killed was pushed into the background, even when that was the whole point of the story for a time during season 3 and beyond. I almost wanted to see some finger pointing from the Order saying "See we knew it was wrong to kill them!" But nothing ever happened. 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 2/19/2022 at 12:39 AM, Tazer.2157 said:

Enter a location

NPC gives you a quest

Obtain a special action key to complete the said quest

Have Taimi's voice in head directing you to the second location

Leave for location B

When you dumb it down to such a degree, this is the formulae for most gaming in general. Even your dredge example is really just replacing the third and fourth step with "interact with thing to complete the said quest" and "have non-Taimi NPCs directing you to the second location".

For example, IBS has practically no Taimi, and practically no Gorrik either. Instead, it's often talking to the charr or norn NPCs, where you enter a location, get told what you need to do, do the thing, then get told to head to next location, and leave for next location.

And I can describe Mass Effect, DOOM, Genshin Impact, NieR Automata, Path of Exile, Call of Duty, or countless other games the same exact way.

Because that's the core, basic, foundation of storytelling when you remove it down to the very, very simplistic essentials.

• Character enters location.
• Character does thing at location.
• Character learns where they need to go next.
• Character leaves to next location.

Hell, that's the very foundation of life itself when you simplify it to such a simplistic manner.

• I'm in a room.
• I do things in a room.
• I decide to do things in other place.
• I leave to other place.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086
kitten that double spacing

[ugrakarma.9416]

lore in the games are tied to mechanics so basically "exploring games" that is about a characters going to some place doing some stuff, this "route" is near unavoidable, even by expensive titles like Dragon Age franchise.

 

But i completely agree about Taimi anda communicators, get rid of this! Thats a reason why POF and IBS history was greater is because in POF the use of it was limited, and in IBS also.

[Ashantara.8731]

On 2/19/2022 at 8:46 AM, Hannelore.8153 said:

Only LWS2 was Taimi-heavy.

😂 That was a joke, right?

Ever since the introduction of comm devices (I hate them!), she has an explanation for everything and solves almost every problem for us. Annoying!

P.S. I did actually like her in LWS2. She started going on my nerves when she became the #1 problem solver in our stead.

Edited February 21, 2022 by Ashantara.8731

[Isshagal.3016]

On 2/21/2022 at 4:59 PM, Ashantara.8731 said:

Ever since the introduction of comm devices (I hate them!), she has an explanation for everything and solves almost every problem for us. Annoying!

Communicators were one of the worst things introduced.

It cheapens interactions between characters, dialogue with slapstick "bzzz, losing you-ksht!" every now and then.

 

And somehow, only pc group has them.

No one else ever thought of communicating on large distances.

The inquest turned to soviet science parody, with intercom buzzers everywhere and large tech.

There are no djinn/ghost pushers or over-the-mists-talkers in Elona.

Charr have to gather physically at councils.

 

And there's this CIA (I for Ineptitude ) spec-op group using ear-pins receiving orders from some teen, continent away.

[Tazer.2157]

Quote

On 2/21/2022 at 9:06 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

When you dumb it down to such a degree, this is the formulae for most gaming in general. Even your dredge example is really just replacing the third and fourth step with "interact with thing to complete the said quest" and "have non-Taimi NPCs directing you to the second location".

 

Except you are missing a key element. WORLD INTERACTION. A quest is supposed to take you on an adventure to explore new areas, meet new NPCs, etc. Working with the dredge feels like an adventure. It can lead you to know more about them, it can introduce you to new dredge characters, it can maybe even take you into a completely new side story. The sky is the limit with good quest design and story. 

Imagine this: Meet dredge in Thunderhead keep >> asked to help the town get rid of the crystals >> go to dredge workshop to investigate branded crystals >> find out that some dredge want to use the crystals for a weapon>> destroy them and the village or help them with using the crystals as a weapon. 

Granted I am no storyteller, but I feel this is much better than having Aurene swoop down and save the world.  Why create a beautiful world when there is no story around it? 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

29 minutes ago, Tazer.2157 said:

Except you are missing a key element. WORLD INTERACTION.

IMHO, Season 4 still had world interactions despite being told where to go by Taimi. It was more than "just hit this one key", it was more often than not "do a portion of the heart".

The world exploration is, like most RPGs, primarily an aspect of the side quest system. The Golden Path - the main story - doesn't force you to talk to every Tom, kitten, and Harry out there because that would grow tedious over time. I mean, you say "working with the dredge feels like an adventure" but imagine if you had to every renown heart for every main story playthrough? They did that to a larger degree in Season 3, and people hated it. So they lessened the amount of heart contribution is mandated through the story with S4 and IBS (not that IBS has renowned heart tasks; instead it's events).

In this particularly limited example, you're not just "listen to Taimi, go to location, hit one key then listen to Taimi again", it's:

• Talk to the dredge.
• Get the reflector dish to the west.
• Get the reflector dish to the south.
• Get the reflector dish to the east.
• Hand off the reflector dishes.

Where with each step, you get feedback not just from Taimi, but Canach and Saiyida as well:

Talking to Varya

<Character name>: Change of plans, Varya. We're gonna lure Kralkatorrik into the forge—and kill him.

Varya: Into the forge?

Varya: Commander, I said I'd help you, and I meant it. But I...I can't ask my people to be a part of something like that.

<Character name>: I understand. You've suffered enough. But...any idea how we could focus sonic resonance against, say, an Elder Dragon?

Varya: Hm...I think the reflector dishes on our tanks work like that. But I've got no one who can tell you how.

Varya: We lost our engineers to the Branded. Our tanks, too—they're scattered across the ice floe.

Taimi: Commander, if you get me some samples, I can reverse engineer 'em. Assuming a little damage, three should do it.

Varya: Better take some oil with you. It's highly flammable—could be useful in dismantling the tanks.

<Character name>: Thanks, Varya. Get your people to shelter when the dragon comes. Keep them safe.

Upon collecting the first reflector dish

<Character name>: Taimi, how're things coming along?

Taimi: Great—everyone's setting up. And Aurene's helping turn out Dragonsblood weapons faster than I would've thought possible.

<Character name>: Fantastic. So...listen. I need you to be my eye in the sky, so you're gonna set up nice and high above the fight, okay?

Taimi: Alchemy, not you too. Do NOT try to keep me out of this fight. I'm not helpless!

<Character name>: I know—that's not what I'm saying. I need someone to give me a bird's-eye view on Kralk once he gets here. It's VITAL.

Taimi: If you say so.

Upon collecting the second reflector dish

Canach: Commander, I have a suggestion for— How did you put it? "Pinning down the dragon"...

<Character name>: I'm all ears.

Canach: This facility back up on a mountain range, yes? What if I were to set charges to bring those mountains down on Kralkatorrik?

<Character name>: That's...inspired. Put a team together; Sayida can take you up.

Canach: Perfect. You'll be hearing from me.

Upon collecting the last reflector dish

Sayida the Sly: You there, Commander?

<Character name>: Go ahead, Sayida.

Sayida the Sly: Your prickly friend passed on your request, and you know me—I never miss a chance to blow up a mountain.

Sayida the Sly: Canach is rounding up volunteers. But we have a problem here at the docks.

Sayida the Sly: Kralkatorrik's Brandstorm took down the other airship—the one carrying Canach's detonators.

<Character name>: That's inconvenient. I'll drop off these reflector dishes and be right there.

Which is quite a bit different, but yet still the same foundation.

Edited February 23, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[dace.8019]

On 2/21/2022 at 3:36 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

• I decide to do things in other place.
• I leave to other place.

 

Ah, if only it were so simple.

[Rhonzos.4169]

That's interesting about the asura always having an answer- I would like to see the Sylvari take a more central role in the story line development. 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

On 4/6/2022 at 3:16 PM, Rhonzos.4169 said:

That's interesting about the asura always having an answer- I would like to see the Sylvari take a more central role in the story line development. 

You mean like in the personal story, Season 1, and especially Season 2 and Heart of Thorns?

[Kalavier.1097]

I wouldn't say "The Asura have ALL the answers". A lot of them yes, but they tend to be the ones who are in the backline looking over all the data they obtain on the actions of everybody else in the field.