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Anet, the problem is not the boss's damage is the healer's healing


AquaBR.9250

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Was reading an article talking about EoD strikes, how boneskinner had this damage mechanic that everyone just ignore because you can overheal it, so they said they are increasing the bosses damage for EoD, i face palmed so hard when i read that.

 

I'll just say two things.


First: If you wanna increase damage so ppl don't just overheal damaging mechanics you'll need to make everything insta kill
Thats a fact, healers can fully heal a party with a fart and they eat mexican food for breakfast, and even if you go down theres necros teleporting you and reviving you in 2 seconds. the damage from boneskinner is BIG, it kills me in 3 to 4 seconds, is just the healers can heal faster.

 

Second: I don't think a healer should be that strong in a game where you can avoid damage so easily by moving, dodging and where everyone can self heal

Actually dodging is bad, you loose dps, just let the healbrand aegis the attacks, and whats the point of a self heal skill that heals 40% of your HP every 30 seconds when you have a healer that heal 100% of it every 5 seconds

 

Solutions:

1: Make more bosses attacks unblockable to aegis and pierce barriers

Area attacks and some others should not be blocked by aegis, aegis should work differently from a shield block. Mechanics like vale guardian's greens where you die if  you fail are ignored by barrier, you could increase the damage of things like that to compensate for barrier but that will just make barrier a must.

 

2: Nerf monk runes and buff others

 One healer rune being that strong is not good, if monk runes give 5% boon duration, then grove rune should give 15% protection duration. With the current state of the other boon duration runes you are loosing 5% duration for 10 boons from the monks runes for 5% extra duration for one single boon, doesn't look worth it does it? Take this +10% healing effect for other allies out of monk runes, that should do it.

 

3: Nerf high scaling healing power

Simple, just change the math, make so after a given amount of heal power it starts giving less healing, this way if you just wanna pop 2 or 3 healing power equipments just to help a bit more this nerf will not affect you. 

 

I heard you are nerfing firebrand and scourge, good, but druid and scrapper can do the same insane healing, you need to nerf healing in general.

 

Sorry about bad english and come to brazil.

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I don't think instant death mechanics are a good idea. What they probably meant about future strike missions is giving bosses healing, damage reduction, or invulnerability phases until a mechanic is completed. This was a major staple of their encounter design before, up until they started making strike missions.

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9 hours ago, Serephen.3420 said:

They said they will make you need to do the boss mechanics to succeed.

This, plus:

9 hours ago, AquaBR.9250 said:

Was reading an article talking about EoD strikes, how boneskinner had this damage mechanic that everyone just ignore because you can overheal it

No, you cannot outheal it alone. You also need to reflect the heavy projectile damage (e.g. with Rev and/or HFB).

But yeah, that is probably going to change with EoD, so no need to worry. :classic_wink:

Edited by Ashantara.8731
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If they make all attacks and mechanics instagib, anything other than full berzerker scholar or viper nightmare loses all utility forever always.
"I got Marauder so I can sustain a tiny bit better" kitten, it doesn't work, you just lost DPS!
"Celestial gear gives me healing and toughness and vitality so I can" stop talking, you low DPS peasant!
A single binary mechanic is not how this should be handled. They handled Boneskinner in a lazy manner, and they are probably going to tackle this problem in a lazy manner, too. 

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51 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

If they make all attacks and mechanics instagib, anything other than full berzerker scholar or viper nightmare loses all utility forever always.
"I got Marauder so I can sustain a tiny bit better" kitten, it doesn't work, you just lost DPS!
"Celestial gear gives me healing and toughness and vitality so I can" stop talking, you low DPS peasant!
A single binary mechanic is not how this should be handled. They handled Boneskinner in a lazy manner, and they are probably going to tackle this problem in a lazy manner, too. 

Ha, Celestial might be lower dps but what's REALLY low dps is when all the others are getting downed constantly. Peasant? Not even close. Reliable? Very much so.

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18 hours ago, Serephen.3420 said:

They said they will make you need to do the boss mechanics to succeed. I don't remember anything about damage increases. 

I recall that but was that to mean they are going to retroactively go back to all IBS strikes and make sure you adhere to the mechanic? I thought they were referring to just the newer strikes in EOD?

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You seem insulted somehow.

Do you not understand the meaning of my comment? I'd be happy to walk you through it.

Healing, toughness, vitality, all become less relevant if the only way to deal with mechanics is to do them in exactly the one, right way, and failing to do it this way nukes you regardless of defensive boons or stats. I describe this as a less desired evolution of the current gameplay.

In such an environment, where mechanics are binary and defensive stats and boons irrelevant, your claim that "celestial is reliable" is illogical. 

 

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Even with these "overpowered healers" people still manage to die a lot on Boneskinner and Whisper, most pug groups will end up with like 5 or 6 people dead by the end of the encounter.
It's all in the mechanics, having high damage for the sake of high damage is not fun, put interesting, punishing mechanics and it's all good, not to mention, just increasing enemy damage will push Firebrands to be the meta "healer" even more, just see what happened to Fractals after the instability reworks.

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4 hours ago, Brandon Uzumaki.1524 said:

Even with these "overpowered healers" people still manage to die a lot on Boneskinner and Whisper, most pug groups will end up with like 5 or 6 people dead by the end of the encounter.
It's all in the mechanics, having high damage for the sake of high damage is not fun, put interesting, punishing mechanics and it's all good, not to mention, just increasing enemy damage will push Firebrands to be the meta "healer" even more, just see what happened to Fractals after the instability reworks.

Just put a specter in there. 3-5k hps on super easy rotation.

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I agree, today specifically in fractals noone dodge etc.. Just stability, aegis and barier.. This is reason why LFG for fractals looks like: ''cfb only'' and ''scourge only'' so anoying.. Bosses's attacks/mechanics should be unblockable and ignore stability not only in fractals, but everywhere. (fractals, dungeons, raids, strike missions, open world champions atc..)

I don't agree with IK for mechanic fail and nerfing runes and sigils because there are classes already with big outgoing heal  effectiveness just from traits for example guardian which is able to have up to 45% outgoing heal  effectiveness without sigil and rune (Invigorated Bulwark, Force of Will), +another 33% when use skill 5 in F2(firebrand) for a short time. Revenant has really big outgoing effectiveness just from traits as well.. Warrior doesn't have any outgoing heal effectiveness so sigil and rune in only one way how to increase heal.

So.. ye, decrease healing and make mechanics unblockable.

Edited by Morokey.8534
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23 hours ago, Morokey.8534 said:

I don't agree with IK for mechanic fail and nerfing runes and sigils because there are classes already with big outgoing heal  effectiveness just from traits for example guardian which is able to have up to 45% outgoing heal  effectiveness without sigil and rune (Invigorated Bulwark, Force of Will), +another 33% when use skill 5 in F2(firebrand) for a short time.

Invigorated Bulwark is +5% per stack for a maximum of 25% at 5 stacks, Force of Will adds 1% Healing effectiveness per 100 vitality, you'd need 2000 Vitality with the trait to reach your 45%.
Besides, I've never seen a HFB run Force of Will instead of Writ of Persistence.

23 hours ago, Morokey.8534 said:

So.. ye, decrease healing and make mechanics unblockable.

Then might as well remove the ability to heal in the game if you want to gut healing.

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On 2/20/2022 at 4:13 PM, AquaBR.9250 said:

Was reading an article talking about EoD strikes, how boneskinner had this damage mechanic that everyone just ignore because you can overheal it, so they said they are increasing the bosses damage for EoD, i face palmed so hard when i read that.

 

I'll just say two things.


First: If you wanna increase damage so ppl don't just overheal damaging mechanics you'll need to make everything insta kill
Thats a fact, healers can fully heal a party with a fart and they eat mexican food for breakfast, and even if you go down theres necros teleporting you and reviving you in 2 seconds. the damage from boneskinner is BIG, it kills me in 3 to 4 seconds, is just the healers can heal faster.

 

Second: I don't think a healer should be that strong in a game where you can avoid damage so easily by moving, dodging and where everyone can self heal

Actually dodging is bad, you loose dps, just let the healbrand aegis the attacks, and whats the point of a self heal skill that heals 40% of your HP every 30 seconds when you have a healer that heal 100% of it every 5 seconds

 

Solutions:

1: Make more bosses attacks unblockable to aegis and pierce barriers

Area attacks and some others should not be blocked by aegis, aegis should work differently from a shield block. Mechanics like vale guardian's greens where you die if  you fail are ignored by barrier, you could increase the damage of things like that to compensate for barrier but that will just make barrier a must.

 

2: Nerf monk runes and buff others

 One healer rune being that strong is not good, if monk runes give 5% boon duration, then grove rune should give 15% protection duration. With the current state of the other boon duration runes you are loosing 5% duration for 10 boons from the monks runes for 5% extra duration for one single boon, doesn't look worth it does it? Take this +10% healing effect for other allies out of monk runes, that should do it.

 

3: Nerf high scaling healing power

Simple, just change the math, make so after a given amount of heal power it starts giving less healing, this way if you just wanna pop 2 or 3 healing power equipments just to help a bit more this nerf will not affect you. 

 

I heard you are nerfing firebrand and scourge, good, but druid and scrapper can do the same insane healing, you need to nerf healing in general.

 

Sorry about bad english and come to brazil.

if your dieing at boneskinner your just bad. The healers can only heal you because they arent going down and dieing to mechanics like you obviously are

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I think you on the right track but I you under estimated how powerful aegis is especially on low health builds. The better approach is to have a agony mechanic go though aegis (or remove it) and require consistent high HPS to deal with it and not one shoting mechanics. 

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On 2/21/2022 at 2:03 PM, HotDelirium.7984 said:

Ha, Celestial might be lower dps but what's REALLY low dps is when all the others are getting downed constantly. Peasant? Not even close. Reliable? Very much so.

Reliable kamikaze you mean. If I had a mystic coin for every time a cele player stole aggro from boss without warning anybody, I'd be done with my current mystic tribute.

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I think turtling and/or support should be a viable strategy. Players like me derive fun from enabling carries, and struggle with high mechanical builds that require lots of pre-requisite class knowledge and practice to pull off rotations that basically amount to a string of empowered autoattacks.

 

Significant nerfs to Druid and Firebrand would definitely hurt my long term engagement with instanced content like Fractals or Strikes.

Edited by Westenev.5289
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On 2/25/2022 at 1:05 PM, Wintermute.5408 said:

Reliable kamikaze you mean. If I had a mystic coin for every time a cele player stole aggro from boss without warning anybody, I'd be done with my current mystic tribute.

 

yeah they should really remove toughness as requirement to have aggro and actually use mechanic that they just put there and never ever did something with it - Taunt.

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