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NorthernRedStar.3054

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5 hours ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

Wow, thief players lie to themselves so much they started believing in their own lies.
1 no class is as mobile as thief, stop with this kitten, its not even close.
2 you cry about having to take DPS stats to deal damage? well maybe you shouldnt be taking 3x defensive traitlines and making a permanently stealthed build. In fact thiefs damage is kittening ridiculous with how its applied.
Classes that you mentioned in WvW take damaging traitlines to deal its daamge, I Bet SLBS that you mentioned go beastmaster + slb ( 2x dps traitlines ) no kitten they will do more dmg then your limp dicked sa, dd, trickery build.
3 Thief still to this day has loads of evasion, DD 3x dodge, endurance regen, vigor, blinds. if you want strong blocks take kittening bandits defense oh wait, you wont, because you have to actually reactively use it correctly, its better to take BP and just use it in pve rotation, its much easier that way.
Thief as always will still remain mandatory, people are mad because thief has no counterplay and never dies unless they are really bad. Itsa PvP game, killing others is the entire point.

While you are correct, most thieves do not use the profession properly or even try to get the most out of their specs. Its easier to play it safe rather than try to touch the skill ceiling. The issue is multifaceted.

Edited by Zacchary.6183
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On 2/20/2022 at 3:50 PM, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

Thief is pretty countered by boon spam in both competitive game modes, has to slot in glassy stats in order to deal meaningful damage, lacks the 5-second blocks and (nigh') instaneous evade frames that other classes have on weapon skills AND (non-elite) utility - on low cooldown - and has, on average, weaker utility skills to compensate for the initiative system.

Meanwhile, glasses like ranger, warrior, engineer and revenant can go mix in tankier stats without losing out on much damage (hello, WvW soulbeast and nades engi), have all of the aforementioned + reflects, superior sustain, and mobility that's - yes - comparable to thief's. 

Why are people complaining? I do not understand. There are far more toxic builds in this game than SA thief.

Because things don't just get nerfed for being op. SA thief is super uninteractive because if they have half an iq they can't be killed but they also just don't have enough damage to kill anyone else. So basically you end up in a scenario where it's an infinite stalemate because neither player can die (unless the thief's friend comes along) meanwhile said thief is sitting there planning out this thread where they complain about how bad their class is because it can't kill anyone. Getting rid of this will allow anet to properly buff damage later, but if they didn't nerf SA then buffed damage you'd have a class who's practically impossible to kill while being able to easily kill other people. The problem has to do with how stealth works and the problem persists across any mmo ever where pvp and thief or any other class with easy access to stealth exists.

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no they are op, its because they are op and not because i dont understand the class or why they have the tools they have and how to deal with them, obviously the people who say otherwise are trolls and they are effectively trying to undermine our experience as casual players, i play spvp for the legendary back piece and thats it 😞 

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6 minutes ago, Androx.8572 said:

These people say Thief op !!
🤡

All you have to do is read between the lines here to see that it's true.  What thief players want is to keep the ability to effortlessly disengage and never commit to a fight.  In essence, they want to choose when their opponent can attack them and they also want to have a good chance of winning that fight.  Sorry, but that's OP af and there's a reason thief is a decap bot.  You want to change that?  Thief has to choose.  Do you want to be a stealthy, high-mobility type or do you want to be a great duelist?  It can't be both.

That isn't to say thief is the #1 problem or that other classes don't have their issues, but if you want to say thief isn't OP I don't think you understand the complaint at all.  Stealth in this game is generally problematic and it'll ultimately benefit thief to bring that in line.  Now are they going about that the right way?  Cmon, it's ANet.  Let's not get crazy here.

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21 minutes ago, Hallow.7368 said:

Because things don't just get nerfed for being op. SA thief is super uninteractive because if they have half an iq they can't be killed but they also just don't have enough damage to kill anyone else. So basically you end up in a scenario where it's an infinite stalemate because neither player can die (unless the thief's friend comes along) meanwhile said thief is sitting there planning out this thread where they complain about how bad their class is because it can't kill anyone. Getting rid of this will allow anet to properly buff damage later, but if they didn't nerf SA then buffed damage you'd have a class who's practically impossible to kill while being able to easily kill other people. The problem has to do with how stealth works and the problem persists across any mmo ever where pvp and thief or any other class with easy access to stealth exists.

When did they nerf SA? I thought they just nerfed some Utility. I think I agree with the part in bold but they can buff some damage now without scrapping SA and it would likely be fare. Throw in an un-nerf of past kneejerk balance changes like Initiative cost increases (can even adjust range on stuff like Inf Arrow) and I might be down for that. 

Easy stealth would be pressing one button. Easy Stealth application shouldn't be able to be interrupted. 

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3 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

When did they nerf SA? I thought they just nerfed some Utility. I think I agree with the part in bold but they can buff some damage now without scrapping SA and it would likely be fare. Throw in an un-nerf of past kneejerk balance changes like Initiative cost increases (can even adjust range on stuff like Inf Arrow) and I might be down for that. 

Easy stealth would be pressing one button. Easy Stealth application shouldn't be able to be interrupted. 

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the text in the balance patch that's coming with EoD said that they acknowledge that SA is a problem, but they haven't come up with any changes they like yet which is why they're tuning some other stuff down now instead. Chances are once they figure out how to fix shadowarts to be interactive and not overpowered for just perma disengaging which keeps them pretty much impervious to dying they'll probably either wait a cycle or even immediately rebuff some things like damage potential on thief. Anet seems to have settled in on a direction they want to take balance wise across the entire game going into EoD at the very least.

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39 minutes ago, Hallow.7368 said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the text in the balance patch that's coming with EoD said that they acknowledge that SA is a problem, but they haven't come up with any changes they like yet which is why they're tuning some other stuff down now instead. Chances are once they figure out how to fix shadowarts to be interactive and not overpowered for just perma disengaging which keeps them pretty much impervious to dying they'll probably either wait a cycle or even immediately rebuff some things like damage potential on thief. Anet seems to have settled in on a direction they want to take balance wise across the entire game going into EoD at the very least.

The problem is, they've acknowledged in the past that some things are problematic, and then they go and nerf stuff that didn't need to be while leaving the problematic thing in place. Anet doesn't have any direction or they would have just made some SA changes. 

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2 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

The problem is, they've acknowledged in the past that some things are problematic, and then they go and nerf stuff that didn't need to be while leaving the problematic thing in place. Anet doesn't have any direction or they would have just made some SA changes. 

Except that they LITERALLY said in the post what they are looking at just that they don't know what they want to do with it yet so they are tweaking other easier things for now just to bring down power levels. I don't think it's too crazy to grasp that it's a week from a massive content patch so they don't exactly have the time to come up with reworks for shadowarts traits that let's it be useful but not overpowered between all the QA and bug testing they have to do.

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9 hours ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

yes, the counterplay is take it up the kitten and hope your team thief is getting value somewhere else 

This isn't rly true. 

The counterplay to a thief is to have Ur duellist stay on the side node, while your thief keeps the enemy side noder stuck to theirs, from there it's simply a case of which one can rotate well enough to do the other jobs along side this. 

The problem isn't thief is a auto win button. The problem is thief leads to a super boring meta where AFKing a node is actual playing properly. 

The problem isn't thief. The problem is how Anet balance thief. 

The correct response is. 

Cut down SA and give thief more builds that don't involve pushing this meta. I.E critical strikes and acrobatics 

So you simply change the meta thief plays and not just weaken thief to try and push it out the meta. 

When something's unfun to play against, or creates a unintentional dynamic you look at ways to change the way it interacts with the game. Not just nerf it into damnation. 

Thief with the changes going forward kills variety enforces SA it's just weaker then what it was. It does not actually deal with the problem it's trying to correct. 

Thief in current iteration is a god within AT / monthly AT tournaments within full 5 man organised premades. However is alot less powerful in ranked games. 

The changes made reduces its power in tournaments but butchers it in ranked gameplay it also doesn't fix SA it just kills everything else that wasn't SA. 

They should have looked at ways that improve its ranked position while dealing with the problematic side of what it does in 5 man premade gameplay. 

And reworking SA, improving critical strikes and acrobatics would of been the better approach to then balance it around a different factor. 

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Lol so glad I left this dying cesspool of a mmo and community. In a nutshell the forums have been for past 6 years.

1- I don't play this class or I personally dislike its design or fighting it so I either could care less about people who enjoy it or pls nerf it into the ground so it's a free kill for my personal favorite class, it insults me that the class counters mine.

2- why are the same three(most common/popular) classes that tend to be oppressive being spammed every match ie necro etc?

3- why is the population tanking in pvp more and more?

It's like to main gw2 now u have to be brainless.

Edited by Psycoprophet.8107
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2 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Lol so glad I left this dying cesspool of a mmo and community. In a nutshell the forums have been for past 6 years.

1- I don't play this class or I personally dislike its design or fighting it so I either could care less about people who enjoy it or pls nerf it into the ground so it's a free kill for my personal favorite class, it insults me that the class counters mine.

2- why are the same three(most common/popular) classes that tend to be oppressive being spammed every match ie necro etc.

3- why is the population tanking in pvp more and more?

It's like to main gw2 now u have to be brainless.

gw2 is and always will be a casual game 🙂

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21 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Lol so glad I left this dying cesspool of a mmo and community. In a nutshell the forums have been for past 6 years.

1- I don't play this class or I personally dislike its design or fighting it so I either could care less about people who enjoy it or pls nerf it into the ground so it's a free kill for my personal favorite class, it insults me that the class counters mine.

2- why are the same three(most common/popular) classes that tend to be oppressive being spammed every match ie necro etc?

3- why is the population tanking in pvp more and more?

It's like to main gw2 now u have to be brainless.

Then why are you here?

 

No one wants thief to be a "free kill". 

Fact of the matter is that shadowarts is completely busted and super uninteractive. If they were to buff damage with how things are we would have a class that has complete control over what fights they want to take. Mess up? Invis heal up and then get back to it. Nerfing this disgusting trait line will open up the ability for Anet to buff up thief damage because they don't have to worry about the balancing nightmare of constant on demand invisibility which takes up a huge portion of the power budget. The current nerfs are just a place holder thief will more than likely get compensation buffs when anet changes SA traits in a later patch. (I think they said around summer time?)

 

Anyways no one was wondering "where is psychoprophet.8107", so don't know why you felt the need to announce that you left "this dying cesspool of an mmo" (it's not). Have fun in final fantasy or whatever

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2 hours ago, Hallow.7368 said:

Then why are you here?

 

No one wants thief to be a "free kill". 

Fact of the matter is that shadowarts is completely busted and super uninteractive. If they were to buff damage with how things are we would have a class that has complete control over what fights they want to take. Mess up? Invis heal up and then get back to it. Nerfing this disgusting trait line will open up the ability for Anet to buff up thief damage because they don't have to worry about the balancing nightmare of constant on demand invisibility which takes up a huge portion of the power budget. The current nerfs are just a place holder thief will more than likely get compensation buffs when anet changes SA traits in a later patch. (I think they said around summer time?)

 

Anyways no one was wondering "where is psychoprophet.8107", so don't know why you felt the need to announce that you left "this dying cesspool of an mmo" (it's not). Have fun in final fantasy or whatever

The community in this game have been actively destroying this game along side the devs for the past 5 of the 8 yrs I played this game, I watched it happen slowly over all those yrs. These forums have been "somehow" worse than reddit over the years, the majority of the pvp section and wvw section are nothing but continuous posts from either new players who don't even kno the mechanics of their own class but feel the need to cry for nerfs to every class they have trouble fighting against OR just players who dislike a class and its design and feel the need to try and get it nerfed into the ground so it's a free kill and get some weird enjoyment out of it when it does get nerfed with 0 regard as to whether it was actually overperforming or just annoying to fight, also with 0 regards for the players playing it.

I have watched a few classes be dominant over the meta's, classes being spammed 2x some times 3x per match on EACH side occur for years with very little change except for a class here or there exchanging with another, maybe some builds on the class change, not the class though and all the while the majority of complaining and nerf crys arnt even directed at the classes dominant but against classes that are annoying to face the community than goes on complaining that the meta's are stale smh. On top of the constant nerf crys that armt even directed towards the dominant class due to the majority of players bandwagoning to those classes anet has a tendency to nerf around the problems players are constantly crying about which adds to the problem further. Over the years classes have lost so much of what made them fun to play due to constant nerf crys and complaining that wernt even directed at the classes dominant in the metas keeping the same few classes in meta with only their builds changing, due to their popularity. 

This games community gets exactly what it deserves, a stale meta full of the most popular few classes, rest of the roster nerfed down never to return, more and more nerging and less fun classes. My point was as if this community wonders why pvp popularity has gone so low. 

Just a tip, classes can only be nerfed so much, traits and skills be negative changed in the name of balance before they become unfun to play, at this point not all players bandwagon to the next popular class but instead just move on. Keep this I'm mind asb7 guys continue to cry for constant nerfs to the same few classes and as more players leave due to them not enjoying them anymore, and keep in mind eventually ur could be the target. Enjoy the next year's of revs, guards and necro's with the occasional engi's in pvp lol.

Edited by Psycoprophet.8107
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2 hours ago, Hallow.7368 said:

Then why are you here?

 

No one wants thief to be a "free kill". 

Fact of the matter is that shadowarts is completely busted and super uninteractive. If they were to buff damage with how things are we would have a class that has complete control over what fights they want to take. Mess up? Invis heal up and then get back to it. Nerfing this disgusting trait line will open up the ability for Anet to buff up thief damage because they don't have to worry about the balancing nightmare of constant on demand invisibility which takes up a huge portion of the power budget. The current nerfs are just a place holder thief will more than likely get compensation buffs when anet changes SA traits in a later patch. (I think they said around summer time?)

 

Anyways no one was wondering "where is psychoprophet.8107", so don't know why you felt the need to announce that you left "this dying cesspool of an mmo" (it's not). Have fun in final fantasy or whatever

SA isn't "completely" busted or "Super" anything. Give us a shout when they do nerf SA, but keep in mind exactly how they will do that. Until then, enjoy having other adjacent but unconnected utilities and skills nerfed instead, if you're thief anyway.

What do you mean by power budget and how does non damaging stealth fit into that and how is it "Huge". Is it like totally and completely super huge, or......?

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On 2/23/2022 at 3:35 AM, AliamRationem.5172 said:

All you have to do is read between the lines here to see that it's true.  What thief players want is to keep the ability to effortlessly disengage and never commit to a fight.  In essence, they want to choose when their opponent can attack them and they also want to have a good chance of winning that fight.  Sorry, but that's OP af and there's a reason thief is a decap bot.  You want to change that?  Thief has to choose.  Do you want to be a stealthy, high-mobility type or do you want to be a great duelist?  It can't be both.

That isn't to say thief is the #1 problem or that other classes don't have their issues, but if you want to say thief isn't OP I don't think you understand the complaint at all.  Stealth in this game is generally problematic and it'll ultimately benefit thief to bring that in line.  Now are they going about that the right way?  Cmon, it's ANet.  Let's not get crazy here.

Bruh,  read your comment.  You want thief to be duelist?  You don't understand the class at all.  Thief never was,  is or will ever be a 1v1 class.  It is a roamer or with specter coming,  maybe a support.  A roamer's adavantage is to choose its fights and leave if they think they are going to lose.  Don't get me wrong,  i agree that thief disengage is too strong.  But,  the idea still should remain as it is,  with netfing thief disengage option a bit while increasing its dmg a bit. 

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10 minutes ago, lightDestroyer.1265 said:

Bruh,  read your comment.  You want thief to be duelist?  You don't understand the class at all.  Thief never was,  is or will ever be a 1v1 class.  It is a roamer or with specter coming,  maybe a support.  A roamer's adavantage is to choose its fights and leave if they think they are going to lose.  Don't get me wrong,  i agree that thief disengage is too strong.  But,  the idea still should remain as it is,  with netfing thief disengage option a bit while increasing its dmg a bit. 

Its not an assassin, its a thief and it is a 1v1er, or a +1er or even a scout for wvw. Not sure if you understand the capabilities of thief. So what if you can increase the damage a bit?! It wouldn't matter if it had high damage anyway because you arent meant to sustain much in a fight anyway and facetank crap. Its disengage is meant to hit hard then bail if it gets too hairy. Adding damage then nerfing mobility even more kills the class outright. Go on with your "8 year" self and hit the tracks "bruh." You have a lot to learn still.

Edited by Lithril Ashwalker.6230
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2 hours ago, Hallow.7368 said:

Then why are you here?

 

No one wants thief to be a "free kill". 

Fact of the matter is that shadowarts is completely busted and super uninteractive. If they were to buff damage with how things are we would have a class that has complete control over what fights they want to take. Mess up? Invis heal up and then get back to it. Nerfing this disgusting trait line will open up the ability for Anet to buff up thief damage because they don't have to worry about the balancing nightmare of constant on demand invisibility which takes up a huge portion of the power budget. The current nerfs are just a place holder thief will more than likely get compensation buffs when anet changes SA traits in a later patch. (I think they said around summer time?)

 

Anyways no one was wondering "where is psychoprophet.8107", so don't know why you felt the need to announce that you left "this dying cesspool of an mmo" (it's not). Have fun in final fantasy or whatever

Dude,  you truly prove how people don't know anything about pvp.  You think the true thieves like taking d/p shadow arts?  No. But you know what? The only thing people hate more than stealth on thief is to get 6k backstab.  They then cry about thief dmg,  then nerf thief dmg.  The reason why people play shadow arts is because the dmg in the game got gutted.  So,  after crying for nerf after nerf,  shadow arts became the meta.  

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1 minute ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Its not an assassin, its a thief and it is a 1v1er, or a +1er or even a scout for wvw. Not sure if you understand the capabilities of thief. So what if you can increase the damage a bit?! It wpuldnt matter uf it had high damage anyway because you arent meant to sustain much in a fight anyway and facetank crap. Its disengage is meant to hit hard then bail if it gets too hairy. Adding damage then nerfing mobiluty even more kills the class outright. Go on with your "8 year" self and hit the tracks "bruh." You have a lot to learn still.

Bringng wvw when the changes were made in pvp tells me all i need to know about you.  And thief was not 1v1 class.  I dare you to write that in the pvp forum.  And what are you even saying?  Increasing dmg then nerfing mobility?  When did i say that.  I said to nerf disengage. D/p disengages with shadowstep and stealth. The other mobility skills are used for attacking. Lot to learn?  Maybe.  But definitely not from the likes of you who doesn't even understand thief in pvp. 

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55 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

The community in this game have been actively destroying this game along side the devs for the past 5 of the 8 yrs I played this game, I watched it happen slowly over all those yrs. These forums have been "somehow" worse than reddit over the years, the majority of the pvp section and wvw section are nothing but continuous posts from either new players who don't even kno the mechanics of their own class but feel the need to cry for nerfs to every class they have trouble fighting against OR just players who dislike a class and its design and feel the need to try and get it nerfed into the ground so it's a free kill and get some weird enjoyment out of it when it does get nerfed with 0 regard as to whether it was actually overperforming or just annoying to fight, also with 0 regards for the players playing it.

I have watched a few classes be dominant over the meta's, classes being spammed 2x some times 3x per match on EACH side occur for years with very little change except for a class here or there exchanging with another, maybe some builds on the class change, not the class though and all the while the majority of complaining and nerf crys arnt even directed at the classes dominant but against classes that are annoying to face the community than goes on complaining that the meta's are stale smh. On top of the constant nerf crys that armt even directed towards the dominant class due to the majority of players bandwagoning to those classes anet has a tendency to nerf around the problems players are constantly crying about which adds to the problem further. Over the years classes have lost so much of what made them fun to play due to constant nerf crys and complaining that wernt even directed at the classes dominant in the metas keeping the same few classes in meta with only their builds changing, due to their popularity. 

This games community gets exactly what it deserves, a stale meta full of the most popular few classes, rest of the roster nerfed down never to return, more and more nerging and less fun classes. My point was as if this community wonders why pvp popularity has gone so low. 

Just a tip, classes can only be nerfed so much, traits and skills be negative changed in the name of balance before they become unfun to play, at this point not all players bandwagon to the next popular class but instead just move on. Keep this I'm mind asb7 guys continue to cry for constant nerfs to the same few classes and as more players leave due to them not enjoying them anymore, and keep in mind eventually ur could be the target. Enjoy the next year's of revs, guards and necro's with the occasional engi's in pvp lol.

I'm pretty sure that Anet have had a change in leadership recently and they decided they want pvp to be landmark content for this game hence the WvW overhaul. I didn't play a long time ago, but balance in this game definitely feels like it has a direction they are taking it towards right now for both pvp and pve. Every single one of those classes aside from rev is getting huge pvp nerfs in 3 days along with thief and support tempest buffs.

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3 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Its not an assassin, its a thief and it is a 1v1er, or a +1er or even a scout for wvw. Not sure if you understand the capabilities of thief. So what if you can increase the damage a bit?! It wouldn't matter if it had high damage anyway because you arent meant to sustain much in a fight anyway and facetank crap. Its disengage is meant to hit hard then bail if it gets too hairy. Adding damage then nerfing mobility even more kills the class outright. Go on with your "8 year" self and hit the tracks "bruh." You have a lot to learn still.

Hate to break it to u but classes have more to their identity than just their chosen class name. Look at the traits line names, look at the skill names and lastly look at the playstyle and design of the class, thief is the rogue assassin class of gw2. A 1v1 class is bit? Sure a thief can beat a duelist class if they out skill them enough but a duelist build an a class such as ranger, engi etc will utterly destroy a thief in a 1v1 if skill levels of both players are somewhat equal. Thief is not a 1v1 class, the only players who view thief as a good 1v1 class are bad players who haven't learned how to counter thief.

Thief in conquest relies on +1's and decaps to make its impact, there are far better classes for the duelist/1v1 role than thief, far better team fighters and far better support classes.

This is exactly what I mean about these forums.

Thief had a meta s/d dagger build when when boons where the meta because it had a great kit to counter guards boon spam, especially when bountiful theft stole 3 boons vs 2. It also had ok damage. Over the years while guards,necros ,engineers and revs have dominated conquest and wvw, I say wvw as being a great blob vs blob fighter is more effective and welcomed than being a great roamer the community is constantly rallying to have classes that don't have half the pick rate in conquest etc to receive the most nerf attention not because they are overperforming or dominating the meta but because they have a annoying design to fight ie thief, mesmer, ele and ranger(pew pew pisses players off), first off doing these means the meta never changes or much, the truly overperforming classes barely see nerfs while other classes with lower pick rates get nerfed and nerfed till a lot of the players just drop the game, players complain about seeing the same builds and classes every match and wonder why population keeps dying off. U can have 2x necros, engines or guards and be like yeah no probs yet 2x meamers or thieves and guaranteed a player asks u to switch cuz 2x of that class a detriment yet out of those it will be thieves or mesmers cried about to be nerfed further.

Minute ranger duelist build is in meta it literally gets callous out continously by the community until its nerfed but if engi,guard,necro or rev have a decent meta build its meta for a long time with a quarter of the amount of complaints against it, it's hilarious, than again everyone crys meta never shifts much and that there's little build diversity, with constant nerfs after nerfs with classes losing things with 0 compensation its easy to see why build diversity in gw2 has gotten worse and worse.

Edited by Psycoprophet.8107
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32 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

SA isn't "completely" busted or "Super" anything. Give us a shout when they do nerf SA, but keep in mind exactly how they will do that. Until then, enjoy having other adjacent but unconnected utilities and skills nerfed instead, if you're thief anyway.

What do you mean by power budget and how does non damaging stealth fit into that and how is it "Huge". Is it like totally and completely super huge, or......?

That's just bias talking and you know it. Having the ability to completely decide when you will or will not fight on top of being able to CONSTANTLY go invisible in a fight is simply just overpowered. In wow for example rogues have one long cooldown that let's them stealth that they have to pair with a defensive cool down that gets rid of dots. And there's also power ups that start spawning that allow you see see stealthed enemies on top of abilities that reveal stealthed enemies and the class has consistently be strong.

 

Here? We have people playing a class that can go invisible whenever they want during a fight making it so the thief has to kitten up really hard for it to be possible to die and yet you're sitting saying it's not overpowered. Thief is NOT overpowered, but shadowarts is. It doesn't matter if they built tanky so you cannot kill them because that meta is perpetuated by the fact that they also cannot kill you even if they weren't tanky.

 

The power budget isn't a specific real number or thing it's a term from league that applies really to any balancing design. Ideally every class has the same amount of "currency" invested into them which means their power levels are equal and balanced. But sometimes devs over invest into things despite not going over their "budget" which still leaves the class problematic such as thief. There is too much invested into their stealth that it does not leave enough left for them to invest into damage. Creating the current thief where they are low damage with ridiculous survivability which helped shape the meta into tankier builds that thieves can't kill because it's also insanely hard to kill a thief with shadowarts. But then also you get classes like guardian and Necro who have a lot of extra "currency" invested into them which makes them a problem by way of exceeding the power budget (hence they are also getting nerfs). The nerfs thief are getting are place holders. They are aimed at lowering it's total power budget to possibly help shake the meta up some until they can figure out a solution after EoD launch to hopefully redistribute the "investments" properly that still allows thief to be strong without causing a toxic boring meta.

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