Let me get this straight

[Hallow.7368]

54 minutes ago, lightDestroyer.1265 said:

Dude,  you truly prove how people don't know anything about pvp.  You think the true thieves like taking d/p shadow arts?  No. But you know what? The only thing people hate more than stealth on thief is to get 6k backstab.  They then cry about thief dmg,  then nerf thief dmg.  The reason why people play shadow arts is because the dmg in the game got gutted.  So,  after crying for nerf after nerf,  shadow arts became the meta.  

So I don't know anything but you do? I hate to break it to you but I highly doubt that a balance team looked at the forums and nerfed thief damage that many times because little timmy said it was op. Thief was either very problematic for different reasons back then or there were less options, but that iteration of the pvp balance team could of also just not been good. SA right now is a crutch which will hopefully be fixed in the summer patch. This iteration of the dev team with the new leadership seems fairly competent they're giving necro and core guard support some hard nerfs that are well deserved as well.

[kash.9213]

34 minutes ago, Hallow.7368 said:

That's just bias talking and you know it. Having the ability to completely decide when you will or will not fight on top of being able to CONSTANTLY go invisible in a fight is simply just overpowered. In wow for example rogues have one long cooldown that let's them stealth that they have to pair with a defensive cool down that gets rid of dots. And there's also power ups that start spawning that allow you see see stealthed enemies on top of abilities that reveal stealthed enemies and the class has consistently be strong.

 

Here? We have people playing a class that can go invisible whenever they want during a fight making it so the thief has to kitten up really hard for it to be possible to die and yet you're sitting saying it's not overpowered. Thief is NOT overpowered, but shadowarts is. It doesn't matter if they built tanky so you cannot kill them because that meta is perpetuated by the fact that they also cannot kill you even if they weren't tanky.

 

The power budget isn't a specific real number or thing it's a term from league that applies really to any balancing design. Ideally every class has the same amount of "currency" invested into them which means their power levels are equal and balanced. But sometimes devs over invest into things despite not going over their "budget" which still leaves the class problematic such as thief. There is too much invested into their stealth that it does not leave enough left for them to invest into damage. Creating the current thief where they are low damage with ridiculous survivability which helped shape the meta into tankier builds that thieves can't kill because it's also insanely hard to kill a thief with shadowarts. But then also you get classes like guardian and Necro who have a lot of extra "currency" invested into them which makes them a problem by way of exceeding the power budget (hence they are also getting nerfs). The nerfs thief are getting are place holders. They are aimed at lowering it's total power budget to possibly help shake the meta up some until they can figure out a solution after EoD launch to hopefully redistribute the "investments" properly that still allows thief to be strong without causing a toxic boring meta.

You're being childish. I know that trait line has problems, I've said so long before I've seen your name ranting here. 

I don't get to "completely" decide anything on SA except my own timing. Other players have their own tools and they use them, or they don't and cry on the forums. My one template with SA is mostly for reviving downed players in large blob fights. There's no bias. I'm pointing your exaggeration.

I don't get to constantly go into Stealth and why would I want to unless I'm trolling a Keep? 

I haven't played WoW in maybe a decade or more. Were people capable of interrupting players going into Stealth there, because that's a thing here. 

Get out of here with your power budget unless you have something to show.

Thief has a lot of "placeholder" nerfs they still use yet SA has been a problem for awhile. Again, get back to us when Anet does what you say they'll do. 

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by kash.9213

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

1 hour ago, lightDestroyer.1265 said:

Bringng wvw when the changes were made in pvp tells me all i need to know about you.  And thief was not 1v1 class.  I dare you to write that in the pvp forum.  And what are you even saying?  Increasing dmg then nerfing mobility?  When did i say that.  I said to nerf disengage. D/p disengages with shadowstep and stealth. The other mobility skills are used for attacking. Lot to learn?  Maybe.  But definitely not from the likes of you who doesn't even understand thief in pvp. 

hmmmm. i dont really care what you think of me, i have more achieved in this game in wvw, pvp and pve than your casual kitten kid. and regarding your post about debuffing mobility and buffing damage, i see you edited the post to disclude that mentioning.
yes, many things dont go together with class names...yes there are other duelists out there but it can and has been a dueling class prior acrobatics nerf. dont tell me what i dont know...tell me something that proves you are as dedicated a player as i am on thief especially with something other than just 100~ posts...lol. "tells me all i need to know about you"....kitten off and go kitten at the ranger forums.

[Hallow.7368]

12 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

You're being childish. I know that trait line has problems, I've said so long before I've seen your name ranting here. 

I don't get to "completely" decide anything on SA except my own timing. Other players have their own tools and they use them, or they don't and cry on the forums.

I don't get to constantly go into Stealth and why would I want to unless I'm trolling a Keep? 

I haven't played WoW in maybe a decade or more. Were people capable of interrupting players going into Stealth there, because that's a thing here. 

Get out of here with your power budget unless you have something to show.

Thief has a lot of "placeholder" nerfs they still use yet SA has been a problem for awhile. Again, get back to us when Anet does what you say they'll do. 

 

I'm being childish? I'm not the one denying the blatantly obvious problematic play style of my class. You contradict yourself by saying "I know it's problematic" right after saying it's not overpowered or anything as well as by following your statement with "I don't get to decide anything" and that "other players use their tools and don't complain". 

How would they get interrupted? They can only stealth in combat once every 2 minutes and they have to use a 90 second cool down defensive to cleanse dots so they don't get pulled out.

Not my problem that you can't grasp the simple concept of power budget, but oh well. There's no visual to it. The whole point of it is to help people like you understand how things are balanced, but there's not much that can be done for people who just want to sit on the forums to whine about their class and throw pitty parties despite how often their class is used on top of being very much viable and meta defining.

Thief has a lot of "place holder nerfs"? kitten the class must of been REALLY broken before considering it's still extremely meta? xd

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

2 minutes ago, Hallow.7368 said:

I'm being childish? I'm not the one denying the blatantly obvious problematic play style of my class. You contradict yourself by saying "I know it's problematic" right after saying it's not overpowered or anything as well as by following your statement with "I don't get to decide anything" and that "other players use their tools and don't complain". 

How would they get interrupted? They can only stealth in combat once every 2 minutes and they have to use a 90 second cool down defensive to cleanse dots so they don't get pulled out.

Not my problem that you can't grasp the simple concept of power budget, but oh well. There's no visual to it. The whole point of it is to help people like you understand how things are balanced, but there's not much that can be done for people who just want to sit on the forums to whine about their class and throw pitty parties despite how often their class is used on top of being very much viable and meta defining.

Thief has a lot of "place holder nerfs"? kitten the class must of been REALLY broken before considering it's still extremely meta? xd

1...you are person #2 on the thief forums that are mouse farts thinking they are hurricanes with very very low post count(in laymans terms, no one cares what you think)...bringing up things in a different style mmo like World of Warcrap compared to a much superior game design like Guild Wars 2 doesnt mean anything. Rogue in WoW compared to Thief in GW2 are entirely different and just because they have stealth doesn't justify the same playstyle/required changes as the opposing game.

2... Acrobatics and a few other traits have a placeholder nerf on them that's been sitting unchanged/unadjusted for months and months to make the trait have a 300s CD which is absolute rubbish and pretty much killed the entire trait line which leaves very few choices or buildcrafting.

[kash.9213]

9 minutes ago, Hallow.7368 said:

I'm being childish? I'm not the one denying the blatantly obvious problematic play style of my class. You contradict yourself by saying "I know it's problematic" right after saying it's not overpowered or anything as well as by following your statement with "I don't get to decide anything" and that "other players use their tools and don't complain". 

How would they get interrupted? They can only stealth in combat once every 2 minutes and they have to use a 90 second cool down defensive to cleanse dots so they don't get pulled out.

Not my problem that you can't grasp the simple concept of power budget, but oh well. There's no visual to it. The whole point of it is to help people like you understand how things are balanced, but there's not much that can be done for people who just want to sit on the forums to whine about their class and throw pitty parties despite how often their class is used on top of being very much viable and meta defining.

Thief has a lot of "place holder nerfs"? kitten the class must of been REALLY broken before considering it's still extremely meta? xd

The first part in bold already makes you look hysterical after my post.

It is problematic. It's not overpowered. I haven't contradicted myself. I said I get to decide my own timing and that is true. I said other players will use what they have, that is also true. 

A thief would get interrupted by someone using an interrupt on skills that build duration. How is that lost on you or are you're referring to another game when I was talking about this one?

Again, come at us with your power budget, because it sounds like an excuse for yourself to move a goal post around when you need it, even adding things that actively stall or cancel power damage. The budgeting happens with Cooldowns and Initiative use, welcome to GW2.

Feel free to go over my post history. You wont find whining or pity parties, nothing that holds up to your ranting in just two or three posts. 

Nerfs don't have to be justified and are often kneejerk reactions. That says nothing about how strong the class is or has been. You're exaggerating because your take is shaky and full of emotion. 

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by kash.9213

[Hallow.7368]

7 minutes ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

1...you are person #2 on the thief forums that are mouse farts thinking they are hurricanes with very very low post count(in laymans terms, no one cares what you think)...bringing up things in a different style mmo like World of Warcrap compared to a much superior game design like Guild Wars 2 doesnt mean anything. Rogue in WoW compared to Thief in GW2 are entirely different and just because they have stealth doesn't justify the same playstyle/required changes as the opposing game.

2... Acrobatics and a few other traits have a placeholder nerf on them that's been sitting unchanged/unadjusted for months and months to make the trait have a 300s CD which is absolute rubbish and pretty much killed the entire trait line which leaves very few choices or buildcrafting.

Yet.. class is still super meta. Shocker. 

 

But yea my bad for not camping the forums since 2017 I'm so distraught by the fact that the dude with the super kittening weird analogies or whatever the hell that kitten was does not like my post count and thinks that no one cares about my opinion. /S 

 

Nobody cares what you think because you sit on the forums and moan and kitten about your class that is not even weak. 

Stealth is universally comparable across pretty much every mmo. They are functionally similar once you have the buff. You are invisible and cannot be seen and they typically define the class. The difference here is that in wow the mechanic is on a manageable level as where here it's borderline broken and is severely out of control.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

1 hour ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Ah, poor thief. I only see it in every conquest game, always at least 1 when the duel spot is not empty, always see it running around in wvw roaming, always see it in ganker guild parties.

But I'm sure its because those players are masochists and thief is really weak.

Yeah its seen 1 in every conquest match cuz it's the fastest to RUN to caps and decap and +1 cuz it's great at ambushing players already taking damage from other classes to finish them off, it's a important role bit u rarely see 2 and when u do someone will usually ask for 1 thief to switch to a more useful class since its gbage duelist l, support and not a great team fighter. Yet see far more doubles of guards, necros, engis,revs etc than thieves and it's way less detrimental for a team to have multiple of those classes than thief yet thief is the op on....ok.

Let's make this a simple as possible for the braindead uninformed players that simple want thief nerfed because it's annoying. Wheres the dagger/dagger, s/d, rifle, s/p and staff builds in any competitive play? Oh wait u only really see d/p builds unless the thief is messing around with bad players or new players, yet u want to nerf thief more with 0 compensation lmao, again clueless and guaranteed with this community and these devs this game is legit doomed.

Edited February 24, 2022 by Psycoprophet.8107

[Hallow.7368]

25 minutes ago, kash.9213 said:

The first part in bold already makes you look hysterical after my post.

It is problematic. It's not overpowered. I haven't contradicted myself. I said I get to decide my own timing and that is true. I said other players will use what they have, that is also true. 

A thief would get interrupted by someone using an interrupt on skills that build duration. How is that lost on you or are you're referring to another game when I was talking about this one?

Again, come at us with your power budget, because it sounds like an excuse for yourself to move a goal post around when you need it, even adding things that actively stall or cancel power damage. The budgeting happens with Cooldowns and Initiative use, welcome to GW2.

Feel free to go over my post history. You wont find whining or pity parties, nothing that holds up to your ranting in just two or three posts. 

Nerfs don't have to be justified and are often kneejerk reactions. That says nothing about how strong the class is or has been. You're exaggerating because your take is shaky and full of emotion. 

 

Ok so Ive had to retype this 3 times because I keep accidentally closing the tab on my phone.

Overpowered and problematic go hand in hand problematic literally means to make a problem something balanced or weak will not make problems.

You mean continuous or channeled skills like guardian GS 2? Yea that's great but not everyone or every build can just easily use those.

How is this "moving the goal post"? Its an easy way to understand how balance works. You add currency to make something stronger you subtract to make it weaker. Ideally you do not go above or below your "budget". But you seem to have this weird half fanatical half ignorant thought that power has something to do with power/strike damage like you're a boomer who refuses to accept new terminology despite the fact that it's been around for years.

Then I guess it's your first pity party? Thief is far from weak right now and is infact very meta defining but your kitten is all over here "nOoOoOoOo NeRfFfFfF!"

Knee jerk reactions? You're telling me previous nerfs are knee jerk reactions yet we're in a meta that thief STILL helped create? People have to build tanky because thief gets to open for free from stealth so if they build glass they die! You are saying this out loud yet I'm the one that looks hysterical? Holy kitten.

[kash.9213]

3 minutes ago, Hallow.7368 said:

Ok so Ive had to retype this 3 times because I keep accidentally closing the tab on my phone.

Overpowered and problematic go hand in hand problematic literally means to make a problem something balanced or weak will not make problems.

You mean continuous or channeled skills like guardian GS 2? Yea that's great but not everyone or every build can just easily use those.

How is this "moving the goal post"? Its an easy way to understand how balance works. You add currency to make something stronger you subtract to make it weaker. Ideally you do not go above or below your "budget". But you seem to have this weird half fanatical half ignorant thought that power has something to do with power/strike damage like you're a boomer who refuses to accept new terminology despite the fact that it's been around for years.

Then I guess it's your first pity party? Thief is far from weak right now and is infact very meta defining but your kitten is all over here "nOoOoOoOo NeRfFfFfF!"

Knee jerk reactions? You're telling me previous nerfs are knee jerk reactions yet we're in a meta that thief STILL helped create? People have to build tanky because thief gets to open for free from stealth so if they build glass they die! You are saying this out loud yet I'm the one that looks hysterical? Holy kitten.

Overpowered and problematic. Look up both words.

"not everyone or every build can just easily use those" who knew build choice was a thing? You didn't apparently.

What you're talking about when you say power budget can be pointed to in this game but you're not. There are stat spreads and resource spending but you don't want to present anything except a loose definition from other games.

Again, how is it a pity party by pointing out where you're exaggerating and sniveling? 

When did I call thief weak? Why are you talking about a rotation and +1 meta when you're crying about WvW builds? 

You really think Anet made everyone tanky because of theif? Now that's whining and self pity.

 

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

1 hour ago, kash.9213 said:

Other players have their own tools and they use them, or they don't and cry on the forums.

Can't blame it all the players, though. Anet has a history of leaving problematic, low risk/high reward mechanics and interactions untouched.
 

This leads to most players getting comfortable with their low brain energy gameplay, and being sad when thiefs drag them down to their playing field - improvisation. Doing PvE-esque rotations does not make your class a special grade of "high level" in competitive. It just means your class (and/or build) packs a lot of passive power behind their kit.

While I would change every stealth skill to reveal thief even if they miss, even Backstab has a lot of counterplay that - sadly - even some of the more experienced players aren't aware of (i.e. about face "spam"). Most importantly, thief has trade-offs written all over their kits: initiative comes with weaker utility and elite skills, going on the offensive immediately limits your defensive options, stealth requires commitment (unlike, say, certain class mechanics) and the mobility comes at the cost of damage and the evade frames come with clear after-cast windows that can be exploited by decent players, particularly in groups of 1+..

Only Steal really breaks this box of rules, but it can be argued thief would die if Steal were to get nerfed.

[lightDestroyer.1265]

1 hour ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

hmmmm. i dont really care what you think of me, i have more achieved in this game in wvw, pvp and pve than your casual kitten kid. and regarding your post about debuffing mobility and buffing damage, i see you edited the post to disclude th

1 hour ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

hmmmm. i dont really care what you think of me, i have more achieved in this game in wvw, pvp and pve than your casual kitten kid. and regarding your post about debuffing mobility and buffing damage, i see you edited the post to disclude that mentioning.
yes, many things dont go together with class names...yes there are other duelists out there but it can and has been a dueling class prior acrobatics nerf. dont tell me what i dont know...tell me something that proves you are as dedicated a player as i am on thief especially with something other than just 100~ posts...lol. "tells me all i need to know about you"....kitten off and go kitten at the ranger forums.

at mentioning.
yes, many things dont go together with class names...yes there are other duelists out there but it can and has been a dueling class prior acrobatics nerf. dont tell me what i dont know...tell me something that proves you are as dedicated a player as i am on thief especially with something other than just 100~ posts...lol. "tells me all i need to know about you"....kitten off and go kitten at the ranger forums.

Like i said,  write it in the pvp forum or shut up.  Talking about achieving more....when you don't even know me shows who is the kid.  Edited the post?  Lol.  This is what someone who doesn't know how to read it the first time says.  I don't edit my posts for kitten players. You are a dedicated player?  Sure....  I totally believe you are dedicated even if the dedication has been completely in the wrong direction.  

[Zacchary.6183]

On 2/22/2022 at 11:47 AM, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

Why does there need to be anything to punish sidenoders?

More counterplay on more aspects of gameplay makes for a more fluid meta.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

3 hours ago, Hallow.7368 said:

Yet.. class is still super meta. Shocker. 

 

But yea my bad for not camping the forums since 2017 I'm so distraught by the fact that the dude with the super kittening weird analogies or whatever the hell that kitten was does not like my post count and thinks that no one cares about my opinion. /S 

 

Nobody cares what you think because you sit on the forums and moan and kitten about your class that is not even weak. 

Stealth is universally comparable across pretty much every mmo. They are functionally similar once you have the buff. You are invisible and cannot be seen and they typically define the class. The difference here is that in wow the mechanic is on a manageable level as where here it's borderline broken and is severely out of control.

so lets take a look at your recent post history...yeah, nothing worth contributing other than bitching about thief/warrior/how this game has taken a toll for the worst to YOU. I've heard about you through others...go be jaded with the game and head back to WoW/New World dude. You are irrelevant are arent making any good points here, others are even quoting your posts to this extent. "now dead mesmer themed guild leader"
Others in these forums and part of my crew will help thief rise above what its been thought as, despite nerfs/changed. Don't worry your pretty little WoW-head.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

2 hours ago, lightDestroyer.1265 said:

Like i said,  write it in the pvp forum or shut up.  Talking about achieving more....when you don't even know me shows who is the kid.  Edited the post?  Lol.  This is what someone who doesn't know how to read it the first time says.  I don't edit my posts for kitten players. You are a dedicated player?  Sure....  I totally believe you are dedicated even if the dedication has been completely in the wrong direction.  

Cya...xD I live for the hatemail. Moving on to the topic at hand.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

1 hour ago, Zacchary.6183 said:

More counterplay on more aspects of gameplay makes for a more fluid meta.

This is why I have no idea why Specter gets no more access to blinds despite the theme here. Easily could have given us counterplay through this bro.

[Hallow.7368]

5 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

Overpowered and problematic. Look up both words.

"not everyone or every build can just easily use those" who knew build choice was a thing? You didn't apparently.

What you're talking about when you say power budget can be pointed to in this game but you're not. There are stat spreads and resource spending but you don't want to present anything except a loose definition from other games.

Again, how is it a pity party by pointing out where you're exaggerating and sniveling? 

When did I call thief weak? Why are you talking about a rotation and +1 meta when you're crying about WvW builds? 

You really think Anet made everyone tanky because of theif? Now that's whining and self pity.

 

Yep. Overpowered causes problems therefore it is problematic. Name when something is underperforming or fair it doesn't exactly fit the criteria for "problematic".

I fail to see what you're getting at here. I said nothing about build diversity simply that some classes cannot just infinitely walk up to you and spin especially not multiple times as you have multiple stealth abilities.

No, not really. I'm not talking about stat spreads I'm talk about when the devs make balance changes they look at the class as a whole raw. When the entire class is overpowered they'll subtract (like Necro) when a part of it is overpowered they'll subtract and likely add to somewhere else (more than likely like thief). There is nothing to present especially when I do not work for Anet. It's to help people understand with a simple concept.

Because you're not doing this? You're pretending you're right that's about all I see, haha.

What? Where did I "cry about WvW builds"? Pretty sure I'm talking about thief and SA in general. Also if you going on and on and on and on whining about all the "unnecessary nerfs" on utilities and whatever else isn't complaining that your class is weak then what is it? If the nerfs we're truly unnecessary then surely the class is weak, no?

And what? I never said Anet made other classes tankier because of thief, but way to put words in my mouth. I said that other classes BUILD tankier as in with their stats and traits because of thief and the fact that if they built glass thief could open on them and actually have huge kill threat because of the free damage that you can do before they can respond and put pressure on you, because you attack them out of stealth?

[Hallow.7368]

2 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

so lets take a look at your recent post history...yeah, nothing worth contributing other than bitching about thief/warrior/how this game has taken a toll for the worst to YOU. I've heard about you through others...go be jaded with the game and head back to WoW/New World dude. You are irrelevant are arent making any good points here, others are even quoting your posts to this extent. "now dead mesmer themed guild leader"
Others in these forums and part of my crew will help thief rise above what its been thought as, despite nerfs/changed. Don't worry your pretty little WoW-head.

Literal Ashwalker.6230 is calling people irrelevant on the internet as if they're some big shot that everyone knows.

 

Anyways I'm pretty sure that you are drunk or trolling. I can't even remember posting on the warrior forums. I don't think I've ever said that the game is bad for me if anything I stick up for Anet a little more than I probably should but that's because I despise the weirdos on the forums who throw temper tantrums about their class being weak or demanding a complete rework because the first beta of a new class has a bugged hitbox on their elite skill. What does "now dead mesmer themed guild leader" even mean and why is it at the end of that paragraph LOL.

Can you be normal please or is this just a hard troll?

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

2 hours ago, kai.5149 said:

Indeed thief should have died, like every other profession dies when they fail. Thief is just too forgiving for making mistakes and that's why so many noobs flock to the class, because it is easy mode

u have 10 posts, that thief is easy and think all noobs start on thief...that was a huge lie. thief is the lowest chosen class on new accounts as a fact. spew ur bullcrap elsewhere

Edited February 7, 2023 by Lithril Ashwalker.6230

[Bern.9613]

41 minutes ago, kai.5149 said:

No other class can do such mindless stuff and live for more than 15 sec

Unlike

or more recent

Noody's build is not valid anymore since the "rework" of the "source of frustrating game play" aka Shadow Arts. Which are no longer shadowy nor an art.

Edited February 7, 2023 by Bern.9613

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

47 minutes ago, kai.5149 said:

Thief is the easiest class 

 

U know full & well what is the state of roaming in wvw its flocked by dead eyes atm... which has to say something for the balance of this game and how atrociously bad it is

 

And the thing is you can spam ports stealth & skirmisher's shot all day & get away with it. No other class can do such mindless stuff and live for more than 15 sec

you found a video....so what...you still get wrecked against good players. and even then NO new player really chooses thief, 1 in 50 are on thief on spawn. you have no validity with your post total

[Chips.7968]

14 minutes ago, kai.5149 said:

Pretty much your tube is full of proof how broken dead eye is in wvw

That's a 4 year old video. This is a year old thread.

 

Things *MAY* have changed somewhat in the interim. 

Edited February 7, 2023 by Chips.7968

[Zacchary.6183]

@kai.5149 Well, if it is so easy and OP, then racking up a high k:d on it should be a cinch, yes? Are you even playing one?

[Kiza.1823]

I am so confused with this thread lol

 

From a PvP perspective, Thief seems fine as it stands.

- It does it job, it can do it's job well which is decap and mobility.

- It's easy to play, hard to master

- If that's a problem for some, go play warrior or something lol

 

???

 

[Zacchary.6183]

11 minutes ago, kai.5149 said:

Are you ? 

 

WVW is brimming with dead eyes. have u even logged there ?

Yes. Now do you play thief?