Side noding is BORING, duelists are STUCK on one node the whole game!!!

[gmmg.9210]

Teef can out rotate us and can decap us as soon as we try to contribute to anything more than being stationary at home or far. SA, even after these upcoming nerfs, will Still have plenty of stealth and ofc mobility to make every side nodist a stationary bot look alike the entire game.

 

Meanwhile we cant contribute that much to teamfights since we're super selfish with our builds in nature. Other tankier classes do the job for us with no problem.

There are some outliers, mainly holosmith and somewhat rev, but it doesn't change the fact that we can't make many aggressive moves without costing the team dearly.

 

Give duelists a chance to contribute more! More mobility or a slightly faster TTK in fights so that the meta shifts and gives duelists more respect.

 

[Downstate.4697]

Decreasing ttk at mid will help move fights to side nodes more often. It will also keep thieves busier trying to manage 3 points instead of 2. 

Builds exist where you can 1v1 and contribute to a team fight. The expansion will increase those options as well.

[Zekent.3652]

I call those thieves, "decap bots" they do nothing but perma stealth whenever someone is close and decap as soon as there's no one on the node.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

No need to buff duelist. Just time for a REALLY fat thief nerf

[DoomNexus.5324]

I am very confused tbh.
Isn't this like the main difference between a side noder and roamer? Like.. If you want to "side node" then you stick to a node, if you want to roam around to different nodes and join team fights then play a roamer/bruiser build?

And why is thief an issue yet again? thief mobility has already been gutted. I mean.. thief will always be stuck at this role since we can't really contribute anything useful to a teamfight so if someone wants to do basically anything else than decapping and ganking (aka finish off low targets in a team fight and disengage) then they'd be better off just playing a different class.
And if thief mobility is reduced even more the only thing this will get you is thief falling out of meta and being replaced by another class.
I just want to remind you of the time where mesmer portal was busted.. Thief was pretty much irrelevant then and mesmer dominated the roaming role, especially because it was far burstier and had some more sustain as well.
With the stealth and mobility creep you'll just get another class doing the exact same thing as thief now.
With EoD this is probably just getting worse.

[Gamble.4580]

This is why side noder normally go far. They xam see where they go asqell as gain map control

[Avatar.3568]

You can leave your node just be back in zime that no decaps happen 

If you leave Close to help out thr big mid teamfight and see that the thief is decapping your close, than don't turn back, go to mid and try to get the kills super fast done, decapping takes half the time than full capping, so you nees to take thr advantage of outnumbering in that situation, if you got 2-3 kills, go back to close, or push even far, your enemy thief will not able to do something, when they start snowballing 

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

You are right, the time it takes for sidenoders to kill eachother is too short relative to the time it takes to run between two points (especially for shiro Rev and Thief).

Edited February 22, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[Crab Fear.1624]

5 hours ago, gmmg.9210 said:

Teef can out rotate us and can decap us as soon as we try to contribute to anything more than being stationary at home or far. SA, even after these upcoming nerfs, will Still have plenty of stealth and ofc mobility to make every side nodist a stationary bot look alike the entire game.

 

Meanwhile we cant contribute that much to teamfights since we're super selfish with our builds in nature. Other tankier classes do the job for us with no problem.

There are some outliers, mainly holosmith and somewhat rev, but it doesn't change the fact that we can't make many aggressive moves without costing the team dearly.

 

Give duelists a chance to contribute more! More mobility or a slightly faster TTK in fights so that the meta shifts and gives duelists more respect.

 

They say duelist and side nodes are not the same though.

The reasoning was side noders are mobile stallers...shot callas...20 inch blades on the impala.....

And duelist are not nearly as mobile but they can take fights and put bad dogs down.

 

But, just imagine for a moment....

A very mobile duelist that can team fight...

You would be asking for what was the very reasoning why thief receives so many nerf......

 

Lol, amazing

[Khalisto.5780]

If mid is too bunkery that's what happens

 

As a duelist I know what you talking about

 

As a weaver i don't have a lot of team fight potential, specially in a meta with core necro and supp guardian

 

My personal experience is, if my team doesnt have about the same team fight potential i can win far or home, even if there's no thief, they guy i just killed may be able to leave home full cap the node i just won and get to the fight mid, before you kill the guardian or necro.

 

I think condi rangers doesn't have this problem, as he contribute to TFs with a lot of poison and CC, which counter both supp guardian and necro, they also have superior mobility.

 

I think warriors have a similar problem to weaver but in a different way, cuz you are more mobile, but the stab spam from guardian kinda makes you useless mid

 

This is a meta where sidenode has limited impact, your decision making matters a lot

 

it's a meta more suited for "dps role" a class that has great TF, can also roam decently and so favorable matchups, like reaper, DH, holo and rev.

 

You still lucky 85% of the player base is kinda dumb, cuz they could just ignore you and wreck your 5v4

but most are just "sombody is home, I MUST take it back" while they could just kill all your team outnumbered and comeback 3v1 to get their point back easily.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Khalisto.5780

[FarmBotXD.1430]

8 hours ago, DoomNexus.5324 said:

I am very confused tbh.
Isn't this like the main difference between a side noder and roamer? Like.. If you want to "side node" then you stick to a node, if you want to roam around to different nodes and join team fights then play a roamer/bruiser build?

And why is thief an issue yet again? thief mobility has already been gutted. I mean.. thief will always be stuck at this role since we can't really contribute anything useful to a teamfight so if someone wants to do basically anything else than decapping and ganking (aka finish off low targets in a team fight and disengage) then they'd be better off just playing a different class.
And if thief mobility is reduced even more the only thing this will get you is thief falling out of meta and being replaced by another class.
I just want to remind you of the time where mesmer portal was busted.. Thief was pretty much irrelevant then and mesmer dominated the roaming role, especially because it was far burstier and had some more sustain as well.
With the stealth and mobility creep you'll just get another class doing the exact same thing as thief now.
With EoD this is probably just getting worse.

the problem with sidenoding is a fact that you want to brawl 1v1 with someone, and through beating them generate a lead for your team.
Problem 
1 Everyone is tanky as kitten so actually pushing anyone off/killing takes forever
2 Thief will decide who wins anyway, since killing takes forever by the time you make a difference thief from team 1 or 2 will show up and either get the cap or kill, deciding the 1v1 for you.
3 Even if you kill someone and get the node ( best case scenarion ) the moment you leave you get decapped by thief, so you either stay ( do almost nothing despite winning ) or leave, get decapped and get almost nothing done anyways, as most sidenoders are easy to deal with in X vs X fights.
It just makes playing side-node frustrating and boring as kitten.
Main issue is thief, and everyone being too tanky.

[Crab Fear.1624]

12 minutes ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

the problem with sidenoding is a fact that you want to brawl 1v1 with someone, and through beating them generate a lead for your team.
Problem 
1 Everyone is tanky as kitten so actually pushing anyone off/killing takes forever
2 Thief will decide who wins anyway, since killing takes forever by the time you make a difference thief from team 1 or 2 will show up and either get the cap or kill, deciding the 1v1 for you.
3 Even if you kill someone and get the node ( best case scenarion ) the moment you leave you get decapped by thief, so you either stay ( do almost nothing despite winning ) or leave, get decapped and get almost nothing done anyways, as most sidenoders are easy to deal with in X vs X fights.
It just makes playing side-node frustrating and boring as kitten.
Main issue is thief, and everyone being too tanky.

Main issue isn't thief, side node is not dueling.

If you are duelist, you will have damage, but running away becomes harder.

Duelist isn't tank, it is a technical mechanical reactive role.

Side noding is getting at least a decap and stalling it from being anything but neutral, even better if it's your color against multiple.

You a r e aide node so expecting kills is a bonus, not the main deal.

If you win fights it's through attrition and stupidity of the other party.

 

Thief is good to neutralize roles like yours, but not always possible.

 

If no counterplay to sidenode...very op and boring

[FarmBotXD.1430]

2 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Main issue isn't thief, side node is not dueling.

If you are duelist, you will have damage, but running away becomes harder.

Duelist isn't tank, it is a technical mechanical reactive role.

Side noding is getting at least a decap and stalling it from being anything but neutral, even better if it's your color against multiple.

You a r e aide node so expecting kills is a bonus, not the main deal.

If you win fights it's through attrition and stupidity of the other party.

 

Thief is good to neutralize roles like yours, but not always possible.

 

If no counterplay to sidenode...very op and boring

the fact that you and vast majority of players think that side node is about stalling eachother is why side node players are upset.
they and me want to 1v1 eachother to the kittening death gladiator style, but we are forced to play kitten like weaver, valk ranger and other immortal kitten so we dont flop dead to thief +1 in 5s

[Stallic.2397]

50 minutes ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

the fact that you and vast majority of players think that side node is about stalling eachother is why side node players are upset.
they and me want to 1v1 eachother to the kittening death gladiator style, but we are forced to play kitten like weaver, valk ranger and other immortal kitten so we dont flop dead to thief +1 in 5s

 

This exact problem forces players to either be...

 

    Slow and unkillable (Side Noder). Which just means you don't have much effect to the game unless you own the node or no one owns the node. 

 

    Or more mobile with better dps (duelist), but every thief/mesmer with a brain will just +1 you. Making your role invaluable. 

 

Personally, I pick the second option out of the two. It's just way more fun. But if you're tryharding (which is laughable in this game anyway) you wouldn't pick either.

 

This meta doesn't support all roles. Best options are Team fighter, healer or boon support. Or necro cause they're fotm right now

Edited February 22, 2022 by Stallic.2397

[Crab Fear.1624]

1 hour ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

the fact that you and vast majority of players think that side node is about stalling eachother is why side node players are upset.
they and me want to 1v1 eachother to the kittening death gladiator style, but we are forced to play kitten like weaver, valk ranger and other immortal kitten so we dont flop dead to thief +1 in 5s

The side node is not a duelist....

Why you don't understand?

Side node should be tanky, or built just as you described.

Sorry to the dude below you, but dueling doesn't really have a strong role in conquest, because of +1s......

Which don't only come from thief.

If I come on shiro, +1 is like 2 seconds, you at least get 5 according to you with thief.

[FarmBotXD.1430]

2 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

The side node is not a duelist....

Why you don't understand?

Side node should be tanky, or built just as you described.

Sorry to the dude below you, but dueling doesn't really have a strong role in conquest, because of +1s......

Which don't only come from thief.

If I come on shiro, +1 is like 2 seconds, you at least get 5 according to you with thief.

Exactly? thief ruins entire role ( side node ), the fact that thief exist means that side node is ruined and forced to play boring as fuc bunker builds, I can outplay shiro +1 me, as I can see him coming even with the insane over 1200 range TP. BUt thief is permanently invisible and thier attacks have no counterplay.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

m8 if you don't like stalling on a node then don't play a build that has the sidenoder role. There are plenty legitimate complaints about sPvP and this isn't one of them.  The problem right now is that thief is too strong due to having too much sustain for its role, which makes 1v1s a pain since there will always be a thief in competitive play. Also ressing is too easy which anet has failed to address. And that's being slightly toned down a bit in the next balance patch, so just chill for a bit.

Edited February 22, 2022 by Master Ketsu.4569

[Crab Fear.1624]

54 minutes ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

Exactly? thief ruins entire role ( side node ), the fact that thief exist means that side node is ruined and forced to play boring as fuc bunker builds, I can outplay shiro +1 me, as I can see him coming even with the insane over 1200 range TP. BUt thief is permanently invisible and thier attacks have no counterplay.

Thief can't be stealth and attack at same time. 

All you want is ez mode, and any decent shirro will melt you as a plus.

You are not outplaying a shiro plus if the other is worth their salt and not a outplaying a thief....lol...

Just strait bias in your words.

I've watched and played against many side noders that can hand around linger than they should while being plused by a thief.

That in itself is outrageous.

You just said yourself though....you can outplay other pluses.....

 

So you want to create a no counter play scenario for yourself....

Lmao

[Crab Fear.1624]

Side noders as it seems the OP and many want, are undesirable and unwanted and have been virtually removed from SPvP....for good reason.

 

If no one can kill them, and they can hold 1 v 2 v 3 v x, and can still score kills....how is that balanced.

 

The balance has happened over the years so you have to decide what to bring.

 

Your builds are too low on sustain if you can't hold a plus against thief....it means you speced into dps....

This is how balance works.

 

Dueling is for ffa and public rooms.

Expect to get eliminated quick by a plus if you are trying that.

 

Another nerf thief thread in disguise.

Thief can burst and move on, but they don't take a sustained fight or duel....this is the tradeoff.

 

You can hold the point against multiple players, even other plus, as long as it's not thief?

Then you want to nerf thief so that isn't problem, and you can be a god. 

Sounds like you are trying to create an essay advantage.

 

I hope anet doesn't listen to this, as it is completely illogical and biased.

[Stallic.2397]

28 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Side noders as it seems the OP and many want, are undesirable and unwanted and have been virtually removed from SPvP....for good reason.

 

If no one can kill them, and they can hold 1 v 2 v 3 v x, and can still score kills....how is that balanced.

 

The balance has happened over the years so you have to decide what to bring.

 

Your builds are too low on sustain if you can't hold a plus against thief....it means you speced into dps....

This is how balance works.

 

Dueling is for ffa and public rooms.

Expect to get eliminated quick by a plus if you are trying that.

 

Another nerf thief thread in disguise.

Thief can burst and move on, but they don't take a sustained fight or duel....this is the tradeoff.

 

You can hold the point against multiple players, even other plus, as long as it's not thief?

Then you want to nerf thief so that isn't problem, and you can be a god. 

Sounds like you are trying to create an essay advantage.

 

I hope anet doesn't listen to this, as it is completely illogical and biased.

Understandable but failed logic. This favors roamers by accepting the removal of duelists and even side noders. 

 

When really the opposite could easily be applied. Remove roamers by nerfing their mobility and watch the Meta shift to more duelists and side noders. 

 

Why do that? There's more duelist and side noder builds then there are roamers. You'll actually increase player base. 

[Crab Fear.1624]

22 minutes ago, Stallic.2397 said:

Understandable but failed logic. This favors roamers by accepting the removal of duelists and even side noders. 

 

When really the opposite could easily be applied. Remove roamers by nerfing their mobility and watch the Meta shift to more duelists and side noders. 

 

Why do that? There's more duelist and side noder builds then there are roamers. You'll actually increase player base. 

 

You can duel, but it will get interrupted.

That's the nature of the game.

Numbers, making fights uneven for advantage.

The players voiced it enough, they don't want builds that can sustain 1 v x long term, as it is slow and tanky.

Also, holding out so long and still  making kills isn't fun or fair to fight.

Side noders exist well enough.

But something has to be available to put that fire at out.

Duelists, just don't have a place in the game when fused with a side noder.

And what roamers?

There is only a +1/decapper

and everyone else is either side node or duelist or team fight.

there won't be any more poeple playing.

you should be happy as ele is the top side noder and duelist in the game, to the point of being broken.

 

 

[Stallic.2397]

46 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

 

You can duel, but it will get interrupted.

That's the nature of the game.

Numbers, making fights uneven for advantage.

The players voiced it enough, they don't want builds that can sustain 1 v x long term, as it is slow and tanky.

Also, holding out so long and still  making kills isn't fun or fair to fight.

Side noders exist well enough.

But something has to be available to put that fire at out.

Duelists, just don't have a place in the game when fused with a side noder.

And what roamers?

There is only a +1/decapper

and everyone else is either side node or duelist or team fight.

there won't be any more poeple playing.

you should be happy as ele is the top side noder and duelist in the game, to the point of being broken.

 

 

 

Duelists get interrupted all the time, but only get shut down by Roamers. (oops, I mean +1/decappers... Isn't that the same thing??)--

 

Its a build that specializes in mobility and damage.  For a duelist, they have to choose between dps and mobility because that's "balance". But when a thief and mesmer choose both, that's fair. Lol.

 

Duelists can beat side noders. Their sustain is stronger than the opposing damage and Duelists damage has greater attrition over all. The only builds complaining about side noders are... Roamers! 

 

Remove roamers and the game will slow down. But that's already the direction Anet is going. 2/2020 didn't increase damage, it decreased it. Holding onto the idea of high burst/high mobility could actually be claimed as holding onto old traditions and long gone metas. 

 

On meta Battle, which builds still hold that title of +1/decapper- Theif. One build gate keeping dozens of others. Aren't people tired of playing the same thief build for ten years now? 

 

Let go of thief and watch the game change for the better. 

Edited February 22, 2022 by Stallic.2397

[Myror.7521]

tho the only reason why 1v1 role isnt good. Most 1v1 builds get out tanked by mid fights builds or other said they need too long to kill the teamfight builds so a plussing thief is ways more effektive. If they would finaly buff some sidenoders back to its old for (warrior specialy here) or simply remove some defence out of mid fight builds it would help the sidenode builds like ALOT.

[Crab Fear.1624]

22 minutes ago, Stallic.2397 said:

 

Duelists get interrupted all the time, but only get shut down by Roamers. (oops, I mean +1/decappers... Isn't that the same thing??)--

 

Its a build that specializes in mobility and damage.  For a duelist, they have to choose between dps and mobility because that's "balance". But when a thief and mesmer choose both, that's fair. Lol.

 

Duelists can beat side noders. Their sustain is stronger than the opposing damage and Duelists damage has greater attrition over all. The only builds complaining about side noders are... Roamers! 

 

Remove roamers and the game will slow down. But that's already the direction Anet is going. 2/2020 didn't increase damage, it decreased it. Holding onto the idea of high burst/high mobility could actually be claimed as holding onto old traditions and long gone metas. 

 

On meta Battle, which builds still hold that title of +1/decapper- Theif. One build gate keeping dozens of others. Aren't people tired of playing the same thief build for ten years now? 

 

Let go of thief and watch the game change for the better. 

Duelist and roamer and decapper are not the same.

If how you described duelist was true, thief would be best duelist.

But, it's not.

It has limited presence in any skirmish, and it's value is in boosting a fight or decapping, and ANY deviation from this role, for most thieves is 99% a waste.

Holo, Weaver, Druid, Spellbreaker, and Core Ranger have way more value in a team or sides, and they can all hold a 1 v x.

Literally trying to fabricate a situation that doesn't exist.

phony baloney

Players will gatekeep OP builds by complaining.

Trash builds like side node scrapper decapper and pulse off revs are garbage tanks and unwanted.

Crap like this will be erased.

Bro, ele is the single most OP class in the game, gatekeeping eveyone else from side node and support metas, and even top spotting team fighting and roaming.

That's the class to delete.

 

 

[Stallic.2397]

6 minutes ago, Crab Fear.1624 said:

Duelist and roamer and decapper are not the same.

If how you described duelist was true, thief would be best duelist.

But, it's not.

It has limited presence in any skirmish, and it's value is in boosting a fight or decapping, and ANY deviation from this role, for most thieves is 99% a waste.

Holo, Weaver, Druid, Spellbreaker, and Core Ranger have way more value in a team or sides, and they can all hold a 1 v x.

Literally trying to fabricate a situation that doesn't exist.

phony baloney

Players will gatekeep OP builds by complaining.

Trash builds like side node scrapper decapper and pulse off revs are garbage tanks and unwanted.

Crap like this will be erased.

Bro, ele is the single most OP class in the game, gatekeeping eveyone else from side node and support metas, and even top spotting team fighting and roaming.

That's the class to delete.

 

 

 Ele is the most op class in the game?? Wha??? Is that why ele got nerfed? Oh wait, it didn't. 

 

Here's the situation. Theifs high mobility and dps controlling the map. Check Meta battle. That's LITERALLY the description of the build. 

 

Side noders & Duelists can play the run around, constantly capping their home then getting decapped over and over again. All the while, thief is out rotating them.

 

Or the side noder & duelist sits on node and watches his team get out numbered. Either way, thief wins. 

 

Bro, bro, bro. You said yourself, thief is in EVERY game. A statement so concrete, players have to create builds to work around it. The only class as oppressive and ridiculous is necromancer.

 

And they're both getting nerfed.