Does arenanet allow guild stealing?

[Evelynn.2518]

Hello everyone,

 

I build and started the guild by my own from scratch, recently lost a guild by a trusted person X, when I found out that person X wasn't playing atm in gw2, person X demote me from leader, person Y who infiltrated person X by demoting me as leader, the day after person Y took over persoon X again and kicked me out my own guild and invited person Z so technically person Y who actually stole a whole max out lvl guild with a lot of deco, and gave it to another person Z,

this person Z hasn't done anything or worked anything for the guild, and so got the max value of 11k g and a lot of worth deco's in it, roughly 10k g, that person Z can sell guilds for mystic coins to gain more profit of those. Even the guild logs proofs it

 

Sadly I know person Y and person Z, they won't talk to me anymore because they blocked me.

 

Isn't person Y breaking any rules of Tos?

 

According to arenanet, they won't interfear with guilds, it seems basicly the devs allow guild stealing, so no hard feelings for the devs but yeah my guild is lost forever.

My thoughts is to put a dev on those things, so this won't happen to other players aswell,

 

[Zohane.7208]

52 minutes ago, Evelynn.2518 said:

Hello everyone,

 

I build and started the guild by my own from scratch, recently lost a guild by a trusted person X, when I found out that person X wasn't playing atm in gw2, person X demote me from leader, person Y who infiltrated person X by demoting me as leader, the day after person Y took over persoon X again and kicked me out my own guild and invited person Z so technically person Y who actually stole a whole max out lvl guild with a lot of deco, and gave it to another person Z,

this person Z hasn't done anything or worked anything for the guild, and so got the max value of 11k g and a lot of worth deco's in it, roughly 10k g, that person Z can sell guilds for mystic coins to gain more profit of those. Even the guild logs proofs it

 

Sadly I know person Y and person Z, they won't talk to me anymore because they blocked me.

 

Isn't person Y breaking any rules of Tos?

 

According to arenanet, they won't interfear with guilds, it seems basicly the devs allow guild stealing, so no hard feelings for the devs but yeah my guild is lost forever.

My thoughts is to put a dev on those things, so this won't happen to other players aswell,

 

There's very good reasons for Arenanet to not interfere in guild politics; they simply don't know what lies behind matters.

For all they know, you might have had a deal with X, Y, and Z to hand over the guild to them, in exchange for "something", and maybe you changed your mind and wanted to back out of the deal (or even "scam" them somehow - not that I'm accusing you, it's just a theoretical scenario). Whatever the reason they got mad and kicked you from the guild. Now, if this were the scenario, on the surface it would have played out much the same way as you describe, and if Arenanet intervened then they'd be helping the offender, not the victim.

There's just so many ways to get it wrong which is why they chose to stay out of it entirely.

 

You will probably not like this, but when you gave them full leadership authority, in fact it was no longer "your" guild, but a joint venture. If you really want to make sure it's yours forever, never give someone the right to take over.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

I'm afraid if you make someone else Leader of the Guild, they have as much right to do anything as any other Leader.  Next time, if you wish to keep control, only have one Leader in the Guild...you.  🤷‍♂️

[Parasite.5389]

If you've set your guild rank permissions where you can be demoted as leader by someone else, that's on you; there are 10 ranks for a reason.

they're not stealing the car if you've given them the keys

Edited February 26, 2022 by Parasite.5389

[LSD.4673]

2 hours ago, Parasite.5389 said:

they're not stealing the car if you've given them the keys

I'm sure many a valet has tried that excuse.

[robertthebard.8150]

3 hours ago, Parasite.5389 said:

If you've set your guild rank permissions where you can be demoted as leader by someone else, that's on you; there are 10 ranks for a reason.

they're not stealing the car if you've given them the keys

While I agree with your ranks assessment, I have 3 felony convictions that make your closing statement completely false.

[Linken.6345]

If person X was not playing anymore how could they somehow demote you and upgrade person Y?

Your post make no sence.

[Sinmir.6504]

I don't quite get the story. X had quit playing and person Y infiltrated them? Y then handed the guild over to Z, then Z sold it.  By infiltrate do  you mean Y logged into X's account and changed things?  You might have a case there, it is against the ToS to borrow another person's account.

 

If they befriended X, X made them leader and all this happens, well, the case falls apart. Trust in X had been misplaced, X was given permission to promote Y to leader and give them permission to kick the other leaders.

As people are saying, if you start a guild, put yourself at the top, put your most trusted people in the second highest rank. That can even mean that the only power that they wouldn't have would be to mess with your rank within the guild, they can do everything else a leader could do if you give them the permissions.

 

Do you know who they sold the guild to? If the person who bought has a conscience they might not want to keep a guild knowing the seller  acquired it through ill means. Though, let's be fair, they'll probably want what they paid for it, if you are willing to cough up.

Were they on a trading community? Small consolation but you might be able to get them blacklisted from it.

[Sugar Min.5834]

My understanding is that if you are the founder of the said guild, no one can demote you. If your guild has say X, Y and you as guild leaders, neither of you can demote each other unless you want to give up the leadership and volunteered. Correct me if I am wrong.

And if I am right, then you must have actually sold your guild and then agreed to a demotion or has quitted the guild and now you decide to take it back 😦

PS: Guild founders remember this, one guild one leader, or you may regret later 😓

Edited February 27, 2022 by Mil.3562

[Blue D Phoenix.7260]

If only I have the amount of trust in myself that you had for X. 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

This is true.^  Player X, even as Leader, could not demote OP from Leader.  Something fishy here. 

[Rasimir.6239]

7 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

This is true.^  Player X, even as Leader, could not demote OP from Leader.  Something fishy here. 

No. The top level rank of a guild is the only one where one person can demote another person of the same rank.

I've done this before (guild-reorganisation in accord with the other guild leaders that couldn't all log in to demote themselves at the time), and just recently seen it happen in another guild, too.

  

8 hours ago, Mil.3562 said:

Correct me if I am wrong.

See above: the top (leader) rank in a guild is the exception here in that they can change roles not only for lower ranks but for everyone, including removing others from the top rank.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Rasimir.6239

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Then, I suppose the Wiki needs updating. 

[SweetPotato.7456]

Submit a Support ticket. There is nothing else you can do about it beside having proof of owner ship of said guild and any additional proof that might help in the support tickets. 

[Sugar Min.5834]

2 hours ago, Rasimir.6239 said:

No. The top level rank of a guild is the only one where one person can demote another person of the same rank.

I've done this before (guild-reorganisation in accord with the other guild leaders that couldn't all log in to demote themselves at the time), and just recently seen it happen in another guild, too.

  

See above: the top (leader) rank in a guild is the exception here in that they can change roles not only for lower ranks but for everyone, including removing others from the top rank.

Hmm.. unless there is a recent change to the guild ranking system, you can't demote a guild leader. About six months ago I promoted a member (RL friend) to guild leader and a week later when i tried to demote him to Deputy or kick him out, I couldn't. There was no option then. I have to tell him to quit my guild and later invited him back.

edit : TL;DR? The link below said leaders can demote others in the same rank, but you really can't. I tried before (read above) Anyone care to test it? 😛

Edited February 27, 2022 by Mil.3562

[Luthan.5236]

Probably there isn't a "special protection" (regardless of rank) for the "founder" of a guild. So I guess it works as someone already mentioned: Giving another person full access ... and they can kick you. To prevent it ... you could just not do this.

Technically not "stealing". ArenaNet probably should not care - unless an account got hacked or something like that. I usually recommend the Wiki in such cases - MMORPG where there is no static manual but always changing content. I guess the full mechanics are explained somewhere there.

See here: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guild#Member_ranks

Never really played in guilds (only have a 1-man guild that still is pretty low lol). Buy my guess is you could make a dedicated "founder" rank - by just duplicating the top leader rank level and setting it above the normal "leaders" in the order? (Then only adding yourself to it. Then they all would have same privileges except the other leaders could not change that top rank permissions or kick that guy.)

Edit: Also the story seems a bit weird/complicated to read in the OP. And wiki actually states (when reading closely) that the kicking and administering only can happen for ranks lower than the one doing that stuff. Would actually need someone at a higher level ... which should not be possible if the one founding the guild is actually always at the highest and can only promote others up to the same level. (Unless he somehow can demote himself and did this?)

Edited February 27, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Alaia Skyhawk.5064]

Potential muck-ups like this is why I'm the only person in the top-most rank in my guild. Not because I distrust my friends who I put in the second rank, but because I've see far too many guilds in the past in both GW1 and GW2 crash and burn when joint leaders get into a spat and the entire guild around them ends up as collateral damage.

Me being the only one in the top rank is insurance against that, and also reassurance for those in the lower ranks that if a spat does break out among the sub-leaders it'll be sorted swiftly. My sub-leaders have all the same powers as me, but by placing myself one rank above them I've ensured my position can never be edited by them.

The result is I've never had major issues, and the handful of smaller issues I've had over the years were quickly resolved.

[Zohane.7208]

24 minutes ago, Mil.3562 said:

Hmm.. unless there is a recent change to the guild ranking system, you can't demote a guild leader. About six months ago I promoted a member (RL friend) to guild leader and a week later when i tried to demote him to Deputy or kick him out, I couldn't. There was no option then. I have to tell him to quit my guild and later invited him back.

edit : TL;DR? The link below said leaders can demote others in the same rank, but you really can't. I tried before (read above) Anyone care to test it? 😛

This was changed on December 3, 2012: Game updates/2012-12-03 - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

Me and my guild tested it back then and found that there's no special case for the founder of the guild; anyone in the top rank can demote anyone else from that rank.

[Just a flesh wound.3589]

I was in a guild once where a person stole the guild. There were several people at the top level. One of the people in the leader level promoted a new person to the top level. He immediately stole the guild by kicking everyone else out, including all the other people who were at the top level. 
 

The founder of the guild attempted to get the guild back by contacting support but that didn’t work. ANet doesn’t get involved in guild arguments as they have no way to tell who is right and who is wrong. 

[Sugar Min.5834]

OK my guild is only 6-7 month old and when my friend was promoted to GL we agreed it's will be temporary. And when the time comes, believe me, I couldn't do anything, the option to change his rank or kick him out of the guild is greyed out.

Perhaps demoting and kicking out guild leaders only work with older guilds? Just like Influence in the guilds were removed with HoT and replaced by Favor but older guilds still have Influence in their guild while the later guilds have only Aethurium and Favor. So to avoid all the problems of guild politics, did ANet make guild leader rank untouchable by others in one of the recent updates?

Edited February 27, 2022 by Mil.3562

[Sinmir.6504]

4 hours ago, Luthan.5236 said:

Technically not "stealing". ArenaNet probably should not care - unless an account got hacked or something like that. I usually recommend the Wiki in such cases - MMORPG where there is no static manual but always changing content. I guess the full mechanics are explained somewhere there.

 

That was why I thought the thread starter might have a case. If she made X leader, X made Y leader and Y kicked out the other leaders, then there would be no case. X had permission to give Y permission to do that. On the other hand, if Y logged into X's account and made themself leader. That would be quite a big violation of the ToS.

 

[Zacchary.6183]

Trust is a nice thing, but we are not in an age where anyone is truly trustworthy. Sorry, OP.

[decease.3215]

X, y and Z make my head hurt...😢

[TheQuickFox.3826]

ArenaNet has no party in this. ArenaNet designed roles and permissions. If you gave roles and permissions to someone that turned out to be untrustworthy then this is an issue between you and that person. It's just like real life. You can trust someone with your belongings, or marry someone and share everything only to realize that they're misusing you.

 

Well, it sucks. You can keep everything in control and for yourself but that will limit your ability to have social contacts. Proceed with caution is my best advice. Consider being reluctant with giving permissions or only give them after a long time of estimating people. But this is a risk that can never be fully avoided.

 

Good luck.

[Cyprien.4208]

No, Anet doesn't allow "stealing" however you allowed people to take things from your guild bank. It's not stealing if you give people access to the stuff.