Vindicator in fractals might be extremely good

[Nezekan.2671]

I just realized with a proper build, you can reach 95%+ dodge rate in fractals with Vindicator, which can end up trivializing some challenge modes. I already feel much safer when I play mirage in certain fractals and I only get around 70% dodge rate. It appears vindicator can be even better. Not sure about damage or other aspects, but this is a good baseline. It could be pretty decent if you can heal and provide boons whilst dodging, so you don't have to worry about damage as much.

 

Anyone had any experience in beta?

[Buran.3796]

2 hours ago, Nezekan.2671 said:

I just realized with a proper build, you can reach 95%+ dodge rate in fractals with Vindicator, which can end up trivializing some challenge modes. I already feel much safer when I play mirage in certain fractals and I only get around 70% dodge rate. It appears vindicator can be even better. 

   Mirage's dodge costs 50% of what a Vindicator dodge costs (and can stack 2 in PvE), plus Blurred Inscriptions gives you 1 second of i-frames to damage x signet activation if needed.

  Of course V could be extremely good at Fractals, but there's already a ton of builds (including Renegade) which work extremely well at them.

[Bovan.9481]

I keep seeing this pop up and I don't really get where people get this idea from.

 

The Vindicator dodge costs 100 endurance. We regenerate 5 endurance per second, and with all the increased endurance regeneration buffs you can get a maximum of +100%, which would be 10 endurance per second. Let's say you are on the maximum endurance regeneration and take the trait that gives 5 endurance per target hit, and you hit 5 targets all the time, you are now on 35 endurance.

Even if you take into account Sigil of Energy (9 second cooldown), Rune of the Adventurer (20 second cooldown) and Energy Meld (20 second cooldown). You still need to wait a second to dodge again since they only give you 50 endurance per trigger putting you on 85. And after you press all three buttons you are out of steam for a long period. This is nowhere close to the 95%, or even 99% evade uptime like I was being told on a Twitch stream the other day.

Someone tell me what I'm doing wrong. Explain to me why I'm unable to see it.

 

You can maybe do some Riposting Shadows shenanigans so you are in evade frames for a longer period of time but you aren't going to avoid bosses to death.

Edited February 27, 2022 by Bovan.9481

[phokus.8934]

If you're spending all this time dodging then you're not maximizing dps, effectively being useless.  You'd dodge at the start of an encounter to gain the bonus so quick napkin math has dodging everytime as a DPS loss.

Simply put, just learn the boss encounters.

[Infusion.7149]

It's still power damage. Therefore it's at a severe disadvantage in T4s where things don't fall over to power damage burst.

[Daddy.8125]

27 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

It's still power damage. Therefore it's at a severe disadvantage in T4s where things don't fall over to power damage burst.

Agreed. 

I really can't see vindicator overtaking renegade in PvE. 

Gonna be questionable where this speccs gonna be used, as I'm not convinced it will overtake herald in competitive modes either. 

[Mike.7983]

4 hours ago, Bovan.9481 said:

I keep seeing this pop up and I don't really get where people get this idea from.

 

The Vindicator dodge costs 100 endurance. We regenerate 5 endurance per second, and with all the increased endurance regeneration buffs you can get a maximum of +100%, which would be 10 endurance per second. Let's say you are on the maximum endurance regeneration and take the trait that gives 5 endurance per target hit, and you hit 5 targets all the time, you are now on 35 endurance.

Even if you take into account Sigil of Energy (9 second cooldown), Rune of the Adventurer (20 second cooldown) and Energy Meld (20 second cooldown). You still need to wait a second to dodge again since they only give you 50 endurance per trigger putting you on 85. And after you press all three buttons you are out of steam for a long period. This is nowhere close to the 95%, or even 99% evade uptime like I was being told on a Twitch stream the other day.

Someone tell me what I'm doing wrong. Explain to me why I'm unable to see it.

 

You can maybe do some Riposting Shadows shenanigans so you are in evade frames for a longer period of time but you aren't going to avoid bosses to death.

Your using wrong sigil is why, swap energy to stamina, any kill or contribution to a kill 100% energy regen no cooldown, keep spamming that dodge dps key as long as racking in kills.

[Infusion.7149]

53 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Agreed. 

I really can't see vindicator overtaking renegade in PvE. 

Gonna be questionable where this speccs gonna be used, as I'm not convinced it will overtake herald in competitive modes either. 

Openworld mobs (much like virtuoso versus StM chrono). It cleaves 5 and power is better against things without exposed debuff. You'd still swap to condi ren for bosses that don't melt however.

[Daddy.8125]

1 hour ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Openworld mobs (much like virtuoso versus StM chrono). It cleaves 5 and power is better against things without exposed debuff. You'd still swap to condi ren for bosses that don't melt however.

I dunno renegades solo viability I feel is stronger. 

It might do more damage then ren solo wise, but let's not forget ren solo builds are doing very high DPS realistically while having the second dodge for added survivability + torment runes. 

Renegade is a insanely strong solo specc so I'm not sure vindicator will bring much there. 

 

[Buran.3796]

3 hours ago, Mike.7983 said:

Your using wrong sigil is why, swap energy to stamina, any kill or contribution to a kill 100% energy regen no cooldown, keep spamming that dodge dps key as long as racking in kills.

  That can work with white creeps, yellow foes, red normal ones and maybe some bronze veterans in open world, but won't work against silver veterans, gold champs or purple legendary bosses from fractals. 

   Remember that the power builds need three stats to maximize damage, so there's not much room to gain tankiness with a power Vindicator; you also don't get benefits in sustain from Tormenting runes, you have a single non stackable evade, which cost x2 the regular endurance, and each 20 seconds you can chose to pay 10 energy to get 50 endurance units (HALF of what a dodge now costs).