Virtuoso Final Changes Thread

[mortrialus.3062]

One thing i posted  after the initial round of changes that isn't in the op's list of compiled feedback

"Staff and Scepter gain about 50% of their auto attack damage from clones auto attacking on condition builds. Virtuoso without clones inadvertantly is nerfing these weapons by 50%. So you buffed the condi traits but left the core condi weapons unviable on Virtuoso. Power mirage and condi chrono saw uses in various content.  But it wasn't with a cookie cutter line of traits that brute forced those builds, but just ensuring the core weapons still functioned well enough on them and the traits were interesting and flexible enough to be good condi or power."

Honestly all they'd need to do is adjust the duration on staff and scepter autos to compensate for the lack of clones while you're speced as virtuoso.  They have these condi traits to brute force dagger into a condi weapon but left the other two weapons comply unviable leaving literally no good build craft options for condi virtuoso in any game mode.

Goes to show how half baked and unfinished this whole thing is.

[Zenith.7301]

19 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

One thing i posted  after the initial round of changes that isn't in the op's list of compiled feedback

"Staff and Scepter gain about 50% of their auto attack damage from clones auto attacking on condition builds. Virtuoso without clones inadvertantly is nerfing these weapons by 50%. So you buffed the condi traits but left the core condi weapons unviable on Virtuoso. Power mirage and condi chrono saw uses in various content.  But it wasn't with a cookie cutter line of traits that brute forced those builds, but just ensuring the core weapons still functioned well enough on them and the traits were interesting and flexible enough to be good condi or power."

Honestly all they'd need to do is adjust the duration on staff and scepter autos to compensate for the lack of clones while you're speced as virtuoso.  They have these condi traits to brute force dagger into a condi weapon but left the other two weapons comply unviable leaving literally no good build craft options for condi virtuoso in any game mode.

Goes to show how half baked and unfinished this whole thing is.

 

 

Or, we can stop trying to force Virtuoso to fill the condi dps niche that mirage already fills, and develop it as a proper power dps class while chrono gets fleshed out as the support spec.

[Urphen.2857]

3 minutes ago, Zenith.7301 said:

 

 

Or, we can stop trying to force Virtuoso to fill the condi dps niche that mirage already fills, and develop it as a proper power dps class while chrono gets fleshed out as the support spec.

Not much hope for that since the Virtuoso spec weapon only has selectable Condi stats its clear what they want to force on this spec

[Xenesis.6389]

6 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Well I can always switch back if I don't like it, die or don't do enough damage. For now I will play it and try work in focus to group up enemies to blow them up, I'm playing a inspiration build which work surprisingly well since stocking blades can heal allies.

Your posts are some real head scratchers.

You say virtuoso is fine because it's fine in open world, the easiest content to do on practically any spec and build.

You are confused as to why anyone would express concerns over virtuoso's performance, you probably don't even pvp, but you want to ignore those concerns anyways.

Yet the moment you think it won't be good you would just run back to chronomancer.... nice to know that you want to hold the spec back from changes/upgrades but would abandon it at a moments notice for something with higher numbers.

P.S people don't care about dps benchmarks in open world pve....

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Your posts are some real head scratchers.

You say virtuoso is fine because it's fine in open world, the easiest content to do on practically any spec and build.

You are confused as to why anyone would express concerns over virtuoso's performance, you probably don't even pvp, but you want to ignore those concerns anyways.

Yet the moment you think it won't be good you would just run back to chronomancer.... nice to know that you want to hold the spec back from changes/upgrades but would abandon it at a moments notice for something with higher numbers.

P.S people don't care about dps benchmarks in open world pve....

I guess, I'm mostly just reacting to people flaming me in the replies. I still want virtuoso to be good, I will give it a go in fractals. 

[HotDelirium.7984]

The maps, instances, story, dialogue, and voice acting are pretty top notch so I'm just beyond confused about the lack of changes for the balancing of elite specs- a main selling point if not an IMPORTANT one since we are quite literally mainly going to be "playing" our build more than anything else in the game.

Like they say in show business the first impression is the greatest so serve FULL FANTASY every time and get it right the first time. I assume the updates are coming this summer with the other balance patch?

Edited March 2, 2022 by HotDelirium.7984

[Urphen.2857]

2 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I guess, I'm mostly just reacting to people flaming me in the replies. I still want virtuoso to be good, I will give it a go in fractals. 

Maybe you should ask yourself why people are reacting negative towards you?

 

Several times you got told that if you like Virtuoso it's fine and up to you, nobody has a problem with it, but the problems began with your claims how good it is and its all fine only number tweaks needed and everyone is only complaining about numbers while the reality is that numbers came only up because all other things got ignored by anet and defenders like you and Virtuoso brings nothing to the table so at least the dps numbers should be higher but again that's not the problem we have with this spec.

 

Several times you got proven wrong by facts and you reaction is always the same, changing topics and coming up with some other kitten.

 

And the best part of all you make in every topic the same thing or making your own topic and again and again and again and again coming up with the same claims you previously got proven wrong, so sry not sry but this smells like trolling.

[Mell.4873]

5 minutes ago, Urphen.2857 said:

Maybe you should ask yourself why people are reacting negative towards you?

 

Several times you got told that if you like Virtuoso it's fine and up to you, nobody has a problem with it, but the problems began with your claims how good it is and its all fine only number tweaks needed and everyone is only complaining about numbers while the reality is that numbers came only up because all other things got ignored by anet and defenders like you and Virtuoso brings nothing to the table so at least the dps numbers should be higher but again that's not the problem we have with this spec.

 

Several times you got proven wrong by facts and you reaction is always the same, changing topics and coming up with some other kitten.

 

And the best part of all you make in every topic the same thing or making your own topic and again and again and again and again coming up with the same claims you previously got proven wrong, so sry not sry but this smells like trolling.

I still think its good and am pulling similar numbers to my chrono in most pve events. 

Hmm I don't think I make that many about Virtuoso I normally do topics in the profession category in general.

PS: you know what i will make a Virtuoso topic right now.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Urphen.2857]

Just now, Mell.4873 said:

I still think its good and am pulling similar numbers to my chrono in most pve events

Again it's OK if you like it have fun with it, again numbers aren't the problem no one cares if you pull the same numbers, my numbers on chrono are higher and still this is not the problem, I can't understand why is it so hard to understand this numbers are not the problem they can change.

[Mell.4873]

Just now, Urphen.2857 said:

Again it's OK if you like it have fun with it, again numbers aren't the problem no one cares if you pull the same numbers, my numbers on chrono are higher and still this is not the problem, I can't understand why is it so hard to understand this numbers are not the problem they can change.

Haven't i made that point too??? I'm so confused about what everyone is arguing here.

This is the exact reason i made this topic: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/108427-the-inevitable-disappointment-of-new-elite-specialisations/

 

[mortrialus.3062]

28 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Haven't i made that point too??? I'm so confused about what everyone is arguing here.

This is the exact reason i made this topic: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/108427-the-inevitable-disappointment-of-new-elite-specialisations/

 

Power creep is way, way way less of a problem in that you at least ensure the specs are generally playable and fun right out the gate.

Dropping in an expansions worth of new builds/classes/characters/cards that languish unplayed for potentially 3-5 years until they get a rework is the worst thing a game can do.

There's a reason no game releases characters deliberately designed to be way weaker than what already exists, which is what EoD has done.

[Mell.4873]

5 minutes ago, mortrialus.3062 said:

Power creep is way, way way less of a problem in that you at least ensure the specs are generally playable and fun right out the gate.

Dropping in an expansions worth of new builds/classes/characters/cards that languish unplayed for potentially 3-5 years until they get a rework is the worst thing a game can do.

There's a reason no game releases characters deliberately designed to be way weaker than what already exists, which is what EoD has done.

Well I guess I would beg to differ but we will have to wait and see. I mean it took me a good year to learn chrono after several attempts at trying, the f4 and f5 merge helped a lot with that.

[Salt Mode.3780]

19 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Well I guess I would beg to differ but we will have to wait and see. I mean it took me a good year to learn chrono after several attempts at trying, the f4 and f5 merge helped a lot with that.

big...yikes....

[Levetty.1279]

5 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

 

 

Or, we can stop trying to force Virtuoso to fill the condi dps niche that mirage already fills, and develop it as a proper power dps class while chrono gets fleshed out as the support spec.

You are right but good luck with that.

Jagged Edge and F2 being buffed were some of the only few things changed about elite specs going from beta 2.

Jagged Edge being buffed was the only 'good' thing between beta 1 and beta 2 for the class.

You can only select condition focused stats on the specialization gloves and dagger you get.

The description of the class now even talks about bleeding. 

 

They really want it to be a condition spec and the actual players are just left baffled. I guess I can appreciate that they are focusing on bleeding and aren't just trying to shoehorn confusion onto everything like when they started to ruin Mirage, throw some burning in there though Anet.

[Salt Mode.3780]

15 minutes ago, Levetty.1279 said:

You are right but good luck with that.

Jagged Edge and F2 being buffed were some of the only few things changed about elite specs going from beta 2.

Jagged Edge being buffed was the only 'good' thing between beta 1 and beta 2 for the class.

You can only select condition focused stats on the specialization gloves and dagger you get.

The description of the class now even talks about bleeding. 

 

They really want it to be a condition spec and the actual players are just left baffled. I guess I can appreciate that they are focusing on bleeding and aren't just trying to shoehorn confusion onto everything like when they started to ruin Mirage, throw some burning in there though Anet.

u mean just like they randomly threw alacrity for no reason? lulz

[Ombras.2853]

I’m pretty speechless they didn’t give a kitten to Virtuoso since last beta came out. What the heck?

[Levetty.1279]

1 hour ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

u mean just like they randomly threw alacrity for no reason? lulz

Mirage is our support spec.

Virtuoso is our condi DPS spec.

Chronomancer is our power DPS spec.

 

It's actually hilarious when you think about it.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

I said it once and I'll say it again. CMC is the worst thing that ever happened to gw2 balance. He can be a cool meme guy but in what balance is concerned he is just worthless. 

[OriOri.8724]

Honestly as soon as virt was announced and only had MH dagger I knew it would not be a great spec. That point made it clear that they didn't care to invest significant time in designing it. The core design of it is so weak, so all over the place, so little internal synergy that it will never be fun to me without a complete rework

[Skyroar.2974]

1 hour ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I said it once and I'll say it again. CMC is the worst thing that ever happened to gw2 balance. He can be a cool meme guy but in what balance is concerned he is just worthless. 

I wouldn't blame any single individual dev. It seems like Anet's skill & balance team is under-staffed and has lost key developers in the last year.

Many of the changes between beta 1-3 and 4 were genuinely good across all classes. It's just that they were too few and/or balance patches take way too long to come in. Another big wave of changes were expected during EoD's launch, and it's shocking that almost nothing has changed and plenty of bugs and tooltip mistakes remain just as they were during beta.

The amount of filler traits, filler skills and recycled assets also gives the impression that the dev team is struggling. Why or how? No idea.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Skyroar.2974

[Mik.3401]

Wow I knew this would happen - if the spec underperforms - slap passive sustain on it. The 3% condi dps -> heal gives decent survivability on Condi build. Seen so many people combining that with inspi traitline. So together the build rewards you with loads of heals for clicking the skills in a random order. It kind of gives me scourge vibes.

At the end, fine let such option be there for people who don’t know how to play or just want to relax in every game mode. But yeah I don’t see myself picking that up too often. It is clear the team looking after professions design is facing dome sort of challenges. Hopefully now post release they will have some time to rework it.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Mik.3401

[Yoci.2481]

1 hour ago, Skyroar.2974 said:

I wouldn't blame any single individual dev. It seems like Anet's skill & balance team is under-staffed and has lost key developers in the last year.

Many of the changes between beta 1-3 and 4 were genuinely good across all classes. It's just that they were too few and/or balance patches take way too long to come in. Another big wave of changes were expected during EoD's launch, and it's shocking that almost nothing has changed and plenty of bugs and tooltip mistakes remain just as they were during beta.

The amount of filler traits, filler skills and recycled assets also gives the impression that the dev team is struggling. Why or how? No idea.

The short answer is capitalism. The inverstors aren't willing to put too much money into this and if EoD tanks they will probably pull the plug (again). And you are right, we shouldn't expect miracles from an understaffed balance team. At the same time it would be nice if the guy in charge of balance wouldn't meme nerf us while laughing in our faces.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

2 hours ago, Skyroar.2974 said:

I wouldn't blame any single individual dev. It seems like Anet's skill & balance team is under-staffed and has lost key developers in the last year.

Many of the changes between beta 1-3 and 4 were genuinely good across all classes. It's just that they were too few and/or balance patches take way too long to come in. Another big wave of changes were expected during EoD's launch, and it's shocking that almost nothing has changed and plenty of bugs and tooltip mistakes remain just as they were during beta.

The amount of filler traits, filler skills and recycled assets also gives the impression that the dev team is struggling. Why or how? No idea.

Sorry but that's BS. 

First of all if one goes by your narrative the fault lies solely on ANerf. Remember they were the ones that left gw2 to die to focus on a new game until NCSoft force them to work on gw2.

6 months are more than enough to get a good balance stage in any game, even if understaffed specially if you have the whole kittening community spoon-feed you what is wrong and what need a change and how to change it. 

This is just pure ignorance balance wise and laziness. 

And that balance garbage this game has came at the exact time CMC got on board. 

CMC has no experience in game balance, there's plenty of devs out there with experience in that respect that could be hired (this game combat and skill design is pretty forward and doesn't take long to understand) instead they decided to hire a 0 experience dude. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Lincolnbeard.1735

[Xenesis.6389]

2 hours ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I said it once and I'll say it again. CMC is the worst thing that ever happened to gw2 balance. He can be a cool meme guy but in what balance is concerned he is just worthless. 

 

1 hour ago, Skyroar.2974 said:

I wouldn't blame any single individual dev. It seems like Anet's skill & balance team is under-staffed and has lost key developers in the last year.

 

Um yeah no, him snickering over giving mirage one dodge on a live stream should have given mesmers the hint... and he's the balance dev for spvp and wvw so losing staff is not a valid excuse, then they give mirage alacrity..... lmao the condi spec got shoehorned into a support spec over chrono lmao....

[Mell.4873]

This thread has been derailed several times, the balance is fine, the game is fine just talk about Virtouso or make another thread.