"Fixed a bug that caused legend swapping to activate certain sigils that activate when swapping weapons."

[Za Shaloc.3908]

From the patch notes.

 

What the kitten does this mean? They sayin this is a bug now? LOL

[captrowdy.9561]

So…this is a big nerf 

[Flying.6509]

So swapping attunements on ele triggers swap sigils, swapping kits on engi triggers swap sigils, going in and out of shroud on necro triggers swap sigils, but swapping legends on rev DOES NOT trigger swap sigils and it is a BUG. What's the logic here? Just.. why? 😕

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

Just now, Flying.6509 said:

So swapping attunements on ele triggers swap sigils, swapping kits on engi triggers swap sigils, going in and out of shroud on necro triggers swap sigils, but swapping legends on rev DOES NOT trigger swap sigils and it is a BUG. What's the logic here? Just.. why? 😕

6 years later and it's a bug!!!!????? lmaoooooooooooooooooo I'm kittening dead.  Joke balancing

Edited February 28, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Skyroar.2974]

6 minutes ago, Flying.6509 said:

So swapping attunements on ele triggers swap sigils, swapping kits on engi triggers swap sigils, going in and out of shroud on necro triggers swap sigils, but swapping legends on rev DOES NOT trigger swap sigils and it is a BUG. What's the logic here? Just.. why? 😕

The logic is that revenants weren't meant to have weapon swapping before HoT, and they then got it. This "bug" is a leftover design decision from beta days that Anet only decided to address now.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

11 minutes ago, Flying.6509 said:

So swapping attunements on ele triggers swap sigils, swapping kits on engi triggers swap sigils, going in and out of shroud on necro triggers swap sigils, but swapping legends on rev DOES NOT trigger swap sigils and it is a BUG. What's the logic here? Just.. why? 😕

think the reason at least for Eles and Engis is they dont have a weapon swap, so they proc sigils on attunement swap or Kit swaps, which is why Sigils have the 9 sec ICD as well

[AintGold.5128]

11 minutes ago, Flying.6509 said:

So swapping attunements on ele triggers swap sigils, swapping kits on engi triggers swap sigils, going in and out of shroud on necro triggers swap sigils, but swapping legends on rev DOES NOT trigger swap sigils and it is a BUG. What's the logic here? Just.. why? 😕

I can see the pattern  for all those - ele's, engi's, necro's sroud and etc swap skills from 1 to 5 which are weapon skills, revenant legend swap was on 6 to 0. But still sad change.

[Charybdis.3695]

Everyone forgetting it works on Guardian tombs as well?

[zaswer.5246]

sigils working on legend swap isnt a bug, the bug is my skills dissapearing randomly and swapping themselves, get my sigils back now and while at it give vindi a bit more cc, AND GET RID OF SPEAR TORMENT, please it isnt so difficult if you can do it right with guardian do it right on revenants too dammit

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

19 minutes ago, zaswer.5246 said:

sigils working on legend swap isnt a bug, the bug is my skills dissapearing randomly and swapping themselves, get my sigils back now and while at it give vindi a bit more cc, AND GET RID OF SPEAR TORMENT, please it isnt so difficult if you can do it right with guardian do it right on revenants too dammit

Spear Torment is fine.  It helps enable WvW/PvP hybrid builds and isn't a major consideration for PvE balance one way or the other.  Removing Spear torment isn't suddenly going to make the PvE power spec better

[Esufer.8762]

I feel if this was genuinely a bug it could have been identified somewhat sooner

[Howluffu.7259]

tbf everything in the balance patch section seems perfectly designed... for an April's Fool.

[hainese.9216]

I can imagine that maybe this was targeted at condi renegade for PvE, but it has some dire consequences for most hybrid PvP and WvW builds - which rely upon swap sigils on legend swap for burst damage and cover conditions on the offensive set (Shiro/Glint Celestial -- Mace/Axe, Sword/Shield or Staff -- eg shiro port, legend swap)

 

It might have also been an effect to balance energy sigils and bring them in line with mirage builds -- so that you had to commit to 2 energy sigils (one on each weapon set), rather than allowing legend swapping to double proc defenisve and offensive sigils (legend swap on energy/cleanse, weapon swap for other two sigils)

 

It's really sad to see them go, because it is part of what made revenant so fluid.....

[Flying.6509]

17 minutes ago, hainese.9216 said:

I can imagine that maybe this was targeted at condi renegade for PvE, but it has some dire consequences for most hybrid PvP and WvW builds - which rely upon swap sigils on legend swap for burst damage and cover conditions on the offensive set (Shiro/Glint Celestial -- Mace/Axe, Sword/Shield or Staff -- eg shiro port, legend swap)

 

It might have also been an effect to balance energy sigils and bring them in line with mirage builds -- so that you had to commit to 2 energy sigils (one on each weapon set), rather than allowing legend swapping to double proc defenisve and offensive sigils (legend swap on energy/cleanse, weapon swap for other two sigils)

 

It's really sad to see them go, because it is part of what made revenant so fluid.....

You guessed it, I am more concerned about HoT/PoF PVP and WVW builds. In PVE we'll manage.

[Buran.3796]

3 hours ago, Skyroar.2974 said:

The logic is that revenants weren't meant to have weapon swapping before HoT, and they then got it. This "bug" is a leftover design decision from beta days that Anet only decided to address now.

  I care two kittens about the change, but WASN'T A BUG.

  You known what's a bug? PAYING for template slots and NOT WORKING in the Revenant class.

  Anyway I'll feel sorry for the WvW/PvP variety:  hybrid builds will fall apart and now only power Herald and Renebow remains (and Renebow heavily damaged by the Jalis change).

[zaswer.5246]

3 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

Spear Torment is fine.  It helps enable WvW/PvP hybrid builds and isn't a major consideration for PvE balance one way or the other.  Removing Spear torment isn't suddenly going to make the PvE power spec better

mmm why would you make vindi a condi spec in any way when you have renegade that is a thousand times better, just with the fact that the bow is condi, dont bring up that thing about pvp wvw ok? also it is relevant for pve, vindi is a power elite so take out the torment and burn and put a fire field on scabenger burst and more dmg or a cc on spear, that would solve most of the problems of the vindi right now.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

14 minutes ago, zaswer.5246 said:

mmm why would you make vindi a condi spec in any way when you have renegade that is a thousand times better, just with the fact that the bow is condi

Bad argument.  By that same logic you could say "why would you run Herald for condi over renegade?"  Yet Herald is run for condi just as much as it is for power, even in PvE.  There are obvious answers here for why this is: you want whatever it is that Herald offers for your condi build.  For Vindicator, you want whatever Vindicator offers for your condi build.  By your logic then you should take the burn and the chill off Elemental Blast/Song of the Mists and increase Herald's power damage, because it mostly has power damage modifiers within its traitlines.  However, it's clear that Revenant elite specs are supposed to help enable multiple playstyles and damage types as ALL of them have both condi/power/support applications.  Literally all of them. 

 

14 minutes ago, zaswer.5246 said:

dont bring up that thing about pvp wvw ok?

I'll bring up whatever I want to bring up.  So no, not "ok."  And yes, WvW/PvP is absolutely relevant to the spec.  Certain aspects of all 3 rev elite specs (and ALL specs in general) are absolutely intended more for WvW/PvP than they are for instanced PvE. 

 

14 minutes ago, zaswer.5246 said:

also it is relevant for pve, vindi is a power elite

It's not just a power elite.  It's also a support elite.  And with the small amount of condi support that can be found in the skills (chill -> torment, burning, torment) it CAN support condi builds as well, even if they're not as good as the power/support builds it can create.  This is absolutely relevant for WvW/PvP where build craft is important and FAR more varied than PvE. 

They don't have to "remove torment/burning" in order to buff the spec IF it's underperforming.  That's a ridiculous notion.  If it's underperforming (which you claim it is) they can just add things to it until it's where it should be.  No need to take away things when the spec isn't where it should be anyway. 

Edited February 28, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Shao.7236]

5 hours ago, Skyroar.2974 said:

The logic is that revenants weren't meant to have weapon swapping before HoT, and they then got it. This "bug" is a leftover design decision from beta days that Anet only decided to address now.

Not a bug, never was stated to be. Most of the devs that made the game are gone at this rate, the team is out of touch period.

 

Revenant is about to be in the most unplayable state it has ever been, so many bad changes.

[Esufer.8762]

It still seems that swap sigils on legends work in SPVP (tested with intelligence and energy) - it's gonna get really confusing for muscle memory having it act differently in different game modes with it being such a huge change to how Revenant on the whole feels.

[Angesombre.4630]

Especially that I do not see where is the problem on a sigil which has a CD of 9s thus like the exchange of legend and like the change of weapon.

[Flying.6509]

6 hours ago, Echo.6310 said:

Everyone forgetting it works on Guardian tombs as well?

Yeah forgot tomes, and soulbeast merge, celestial avatar and probably something else. No problems with those just screw Rev in particular.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Flying.6509

[The Boz.2038]

Braindead change.

[Angesombre.4630]

It's just a dirty face offense done to the revenant while it works for all other classes, it seems.

[zaswer.5246]

8 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

Bad argument.  By that same logic you could say "why would you run Herald for condi over renegade?"  Yet Herald is run for condi just as much as it is for power, even in PvE.  There are obvious answers here for why this is: you want whatever it is that Herald offers for your condi build.  For Vindicator, you want whatever Vindicator offers for your condi build.  By your logic then you should take the burn and the chill off Elemental Blast/Song of the Mists and increase Herald's power damage, because it mostly has power damage modifiers within its traitlines.  However, it's clear that Revenant elite specs are supposed to help enable multiple playstyles and damage types as ALL of them have both condi/power/support applications.  Literally all of them. 

 

I'll bring up whatever I want to bring up.  So no, not "ok."  And yes, WvW/PvP is absolutely relevant to the spec.  Certain aspects of all 3 rev elite specs (and ALL specs in general) are absolutely intended more for WvW/PvP than they are for instanced PvE. 

 

It's not just a power elite.  It's also a support elite.  And with the small amount of condi support that can be found in the skills (chill -> torment, burning, torment) it CAN support condi builds as well, even if they're not as good as the power/support builds it can create.  This is absolutely relevant for WvW/PvP where build craft is important and FAR more varied than PvE. 

They don't have to "remove torment/burning" in order to buff the spec IF it's underperforming.  That's a ridiculous notion.  If it's underperforming (which you claim it is) they can just add things to it until it's where it should be.  No need to take away things when the spec isn't where it should be anyway. 

ok where should i start....

1 its akready bad making a elire solely for pvp or wvw, the same way its bad to do it only for pve, if rev is too focused on pvp then they need to give something to pve to balance.

2 you got a point, you could make all elites hibrid so you can go power condi healer suport on everything, but bad news usually that makes you bad at everything, if chill dealt dmg i might have said, well another condi rev, i dont like it but well its something, but one skill with burn and one skill with torment, with no weapons to combine? man if you are making hibrid or condi builds with it please try rene, like seriously, youre suffering fir nothing.

Theres one thing i think everyone allwais forgets, rev is suposed to be a jack of all trades, meaning you can do everything decently good, but then you see guardian amd you can do everything more than great.

we have herald, wich already is good on pvp or wvw, renegade that makes good condi and suport builds and can even go to pvp and wvw too, but vindi has problems everywere, revenant needs a pure power elite and a healer, vicky is a decent heal mixed with ventary(wich is the obvious healer legend combo) so wich is the obvious power combo?  shiro and aliance, shiro has no fields to combo, jade winds is a joke cc (at least having a 50 energy cost), and now aliance ahs one cc that is not enought, no combo fields, one evade less and 2 skills with condis thst dobt make sense.

make scavenger burst create a fire field, we already have rotation combo finishers so the burn would still be there, give cc to gs, a pull on gs3 would be great even on pvp modes, spear could get a bit more dmg, or a cc even.

that would make vindi much better, you want more condi and hibrids but WHY?   i mean wasnt enought with herald and rene? i at least prefer one pure power well done, one pure condi well done and a good hibrid  than a thousand hibrids that lack everywere.

[Justine.6351]

next up,

phase smash no longer triggers traps and marks.