Mantra of Solace: Aegis removed.

[Saiyan.1704]

Is no one going to talk about how Firebrand hasn't been meta in sPvP since 6 months after PoF released? But hey, us Guardians have Dragonhunter so nerfing FB even more is perfectly acceptable...

This change is straight up garbage.

[Puck.3697]

On 3/1/2022 at 6:07 PM, Dave.6819 said:

Can you understand what i'm saying at all? I'm not pretending that other specs are underpowered or am i biased towards FB, just check history of anets balance patch notes. Anet shaved them off over the course of 2-3 years. And now they're underperforming. Even FB is underperforming compared to how it was in the beginning. So maybe it's time to quit nerfing and attack this problem from different angle. Nerfing leads to more nerfing and it's a non-stop cycle. Class A gets a nerf, so class B has to get nerfed cuz it's overpowered compared to class A. Class C also has to get nerfed so it's not too overpowered compared to class A and B. And so on.. Sure you can say FB is overpowered now. But only because many classes were nerfed heavily in the past and in comparison it seems overpowered. And FB is strong not necessarily cuz of less nerfs but just because of how the class is designed. Some classes can take some heavy nerfs and still stay relevant. Just look through the history of patch notes, juding on those every class is underperforming. So you can either keep on nerfing.. or maybe stop that and buff some classes or think of some other ways to balance things out.

Personally i don't even care. I'll just roll another class and play it. All i'm saying is that it's such an annoying way of dealing with it. People build their mains, invest time and money and then those mains become 20% of what they were. Same thing will happen over and over.. They give you a shiny new toy to play with and then they take it away and say "Here's a new shiny toy. Forget the old toy

Nerfing does not lead to more nerfing. The fact is if 3 of 9 are overperforming then Ur better off nerfing 3 not buffing 6. U have to apply the context surrounding this. 

Ontop of this. Yes if your a FoTM reroller u can do a new proffession. But let's not pretend guardian become weak. 

Quickness firebrand is still meta choice, and to stack willbender doing almost 40k DPS puts it as one of the highest Condi DPS options in the game. While DH is one of the highest power DPS options in the game. 

 

 

[fatihso.7258]

Mantra is useless as a heal since they removed aegis from it. Are there going to be any compensation to Mantra such as increased healing to make it less useless now, Anet?

[Carnifex.3275]

16 hours ago, fatihso.7258 said:

Mantra is useless as a heal since they removed aegis from it. Are there going to be any compensation to Mantra such as increased healing to make it less useless now, Anet?

There was a compensation. Protection and resolution. They should've increased healing too though.

Edited March 19, 2022 by Dave.6819

[Aza.2105]

On 3/19/2022 at 1:59 AM, Dave.6819 said:

There was a compensation. Protection and resolution. They should've increased healing too though.

It's not even a heal skill now, it more like a utility. I think its just lazy that anet didn't bother to change the healing when they nerfed it. 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Aza.2105

[Carnifex.3275]

I completely agree. The "compensation" was too poor.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

if they are gonna remove aegis from the fb heal then why didn't they change the trait and compensate the heal in some way... god so lazy.

[Antina.5973]

Afaik when they changed Scourge heal, there was also a trait that as a damage loss would give you this barrier for 5 targets back, why not do this again here?

I admit that this easy to access Aegis allowed to skip some stuff, it also was fairly short and well, blocking only one hit. So a good use (timing) of it was required in most situations and that was the fun bit for me. It really is not that much defense if all 3 charges are used mindlessly off-cooldown. I'd happily sacrifice some dps so I could shield some fellow players when they learn new content as I enjoy those hero moments and they are the reason I play guardian a lot.

For the past year I've tanked all the raid bosses on FB, because I'm comfy with the class and just preferred it over Chrono and co. Usually it required a few brain cells to use Aegis at the right time to shield some attacks and maybe a dodge or two. Now with perma protection and resolution I noticed I can pretty much afk where previously I had to spare a dodge, or swap a trait so I have some more defense. Just less gaming, less fun.

[Kuya.6495]

I think people here are under valuing the benefit of being able to provide 100% protection duration to 5 people for firebrand. Aegis is situational but permanent protection means less damage overall to heal which for firebrand, that has less burst healing than druid, tempest and mechanist, is a benefit.  For anything that you needed aegis for, advance and shield 4 is still available.  

 

It's easy to flip out about losing aegis because when aegis blocks an attack the feedback you get is obvious and satisfactory. But you don't really get a sense for how much damage you are avoiding from having permanent protection if you don't use some app that calculates how much damage you negated. Which I dare to say, might be way more than what you negate with aegis.

[Kanto.2485]

On 3/22/2022 at 5:59 AM, Kuya.6495 said:

I think people here are under valuing the benefit of being able to provide 100% protection duration to 5 people for firebrand. Aegis is situational but permanent protection means less damage overall to heal which for firebrand, that has less burst healing than druid, tempest and mechanist, is a benefit.  For anything that you needed aegis for, advance and shield 4 is still available.  

 

It's easy to flip out about losing aegis because when aegis blocks an attack the feedback you get is obvious and satisfactory. But you don't really get a sense for how much damage you are avoiding from having permanent protection if you don't use some app that calculates how much damage you negated. Which I dare to say, might be way more than what you negate with aegis.

 

Firebrand already has 100% resolution and protection uptime from other sources.

[Archguardian.9278]

I'd like to have aegis added back to this skill.  As a healbrand, I love the protection/resolution they added as its damage reduction over a period of time.  tbh I think it's great.  I miss the aegis as I used it strategically in pve and fractals.  When placed well instead of being spammed it really helped highlight your level of skill.  Was aegis really so over powered here? 

[Asum.4960]

7 hours ago, supermanboy.4592 said:

I miss the aegis as I used it strategically in pve and fractals.  When placed well instead of being spammed it really helped highlight your level of skill.  Was aegis really so over powered here? 

I agree the removal of Aegis took a huge amount of fun and skill out of FB which came from key timing to block specific attacks/mechanics - that said, it was severely overpowered. 

 

Imo still the better solution would have been to set all FB Mantras at 20-25 seconds CD, and to then adjust their effects accordingly (double Burn duration or stacks for Flame, double boon duration for Potence, etc.), while keeping the Aegis on Solace. 

That way the skillful gameplay element as well as core Trait interactions would have remained intact, while tuning down the overall efficacy (and frankly protecting player health, these super spammable mantras are a breeding ground for repetitive stress injuries).

[Hotride.2187]

11 hours ago, supermanboy.4592 said:

I'd like to have aegis added back to this skill.

OP or not, the aegis enabled some useful traits (quickness on aegis, heal on aegis proc, extra healing on block).

Removing the aegis didnt make the traits useless but IMO nerfed healing... where your healing was already pretty gimmicky and coming from multiple sources to be strong.

IMO your healing is still good enough if you and your party play decently. But it took a hit with the change that the added protection and resolution dont address.

Ofc you can argue hfb shouldnt exist, but its healing was already on "off-healer" level even before that. You brought it for the quickness, stab and aegis more so than for the healing.

I feel raw party healing on the heal mantra and stalward speed proc also on heal would've been better than protection and resolution.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Archguardian.9278]

I've always felt aegis was a bit of a wasted opportunity.  Outside of solace, it's never been too terribly useful.  Before there was hope for it with Communal Defence.  Even in the core game before the first expansion, Rune of the Guardian felt like a waste.  The 6th buff from the final rune is supposed to be decent, but a burn when you occasionally blocked wasn't great imo.

[Luna.6203]

At least it should heal now.. at the end of the day it supposed to be healing skill. It heal for 1.5k and gives you 4 sec protection + resolution.. more like poor utility skill.. And let's pretend it's utility skill so it does not interact with liberator's vow.. Nobody would ever use it.. or am i wrong ?

[Nezekan.2671]

On 3/9/2022 at 7:43 AM, Saiyan.1704 said:

Is no one going to talk about how Firebrand hasn't been meta in sPvP since 6 months after PoF released? But hey, us Guardians have Dragonhunter so nerfing FB even more is perfectly acceptable...

This change is straight up garbage.

Yes, the ONE mode in game Firebrand is not meta. How sad. Anyway.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Nezekan.2671

[Antina.5973]

I think some traits that rely on Aegis should be just updated, or a trait that gives the aegis back could be added. Stuff like:

- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tenacious_Defense
- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pure_of_Heart
- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Communal_Defenses
- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shattered_Aegis
- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wrathful_Spirit

Is unusable now, when all the aegis you can do is one shout and a tome on long cd.

[Hotride.2187]

35 minutes ago, Antina.5973 said:

I think some traits that rely on Aegis should be just updated, or a trait that gives the aegis back could be added. Stuff like:

- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tenacious_Defense
- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pure_of_Heart
- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Communal_Defenses
- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shattered_Aegis
- https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wrathful_Spirit

Is unusable now, when all the aegis you can do is one shout and a tome on long cd.

Mace and shield offsets this, but not enough as far as the healing goes.

[Antina.5973]

14 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Mace and shield offsets this, but not enough as far as the healing goes.

I don't think Protector's Strike is a block tho, so not the mace 😕 It would be cool if it was for example a block for 2-3 seconds. Like it's on warrior's shield or rev mace(?).

[Hotride.2187]

46 minutes ago, Antina.5973 said:

I don't think Protector's Strike is a block tho, so not the mace 😕 It would be cool if it was for example a block for 2-3 seconds. Like it's on warrior's shield or rev mace(?).

It going off should apply aegis to your party (might be traited though, its been a while since I've changed my hfb build).

[Puck.3697]

On 3/9/2022 at 4:13 AM, Saiyan.1704 said:

Is no one going to talk about how Firebrand hasn't been meta in sPvP since 6 months after PoF released? But hey, us Guardians have Dragonhunter so nerfing FB even more is perfectly acceptable...

This change is straight up garbage.

Is no one gonna talk about you firebrand was dumb levels of overpowered during those 6 months. Remained a god amongst mortals for the rest of PoF in wvwvw and single handedly dominated the support meta for the entirety of PoF aswell?. 

To then send it completely over the edge in memes with making a exposed change which indirectly buffed it further? 

While deadeye got made OP and immediately nerfed 1 patch later. 

Cool story. 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Daddy.8125

[Archguardian.9278]

What if they're changing Solace now to remove aegis, however the long term goal is to make the next guardian elite based on aegis. 😃 I'll bet Anet could do something really cool with that!

[Solstice.5790]

"Create breathing room for the new specs coming in" at some point in the future. Maybe.

 

I can not speak for HFB in PvP, but neither in PvE/fractals nor in WvW have they been replaced or are they being supported by "the new specs coming in". HFB just got worse. Not a lot worse, but noticeably.

 

HFB was very strong in PvE and to a point still is, but the fact that the class provided great boons (Might/Stabi/Aegis + Quick, maybe Prot, Regen) with sufficient healing for that content (e.g. fractals) doesn't make it overpowered - it makes the damage in there undertuned. And please look at your power melees the next time you're in a fractal before you disagree. Those builds are what really got hurt by the Aegis reduction on Solace.

 

Whoever is happy about any class (other than their own of course) getting nerfed may want to consider that there are other gamemodes than the one where they are having problems dealing with said class.

[Hotride.2187]

3 hours ago, Solstice.5790 said:

HFB was very strong in PvE and to a point still is, but the fact that the class provided great boons (Might/Stabi/Aegis + Quick, maybe Prot, Regen) with sufficient healing for that content (e.g. fractals) doesn't make it overpowered

Yes it does make it overpowered...

The mantra nerf just reduced the healing and dmg mitigation which is IMO the wrong thing to touch. Its the combination of stability and quickness that is not OK, especially when guard has exclusive high party stability uptime.

But I guess they were aiming to nerf it for raids (and so for their new strikes) where aegis spam was apparently broken.

[yLoon.5289]

This nerf is like a fertilizer for other builds to grow. I suppose Arena wants to encourage other builds to thrive.
In a proper coordination of Fractal run, one Healbrand and another Firebrand dpser with Mantra Solace,  it is actually a God team; due to at least 10 rounds of Aegis to be used for the mechanic of Bossess.
Hence, comes the hammer of nerf.