Todays nerfs prove that Anet DESPISES Solo Players

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 minutes ago, Pezz.4758 said:

you keep conflating subjective taste with objective reality

 

perfectly reasonable TO WHOM? and which is it, were the nerfs unnoticeable, or justified?

 

if they are unnoticeable than they are unjustifiable as they have caused a rift for no apparent reason

if they are justifiable then they must be having an impact which people are struggling to find the reasons for

 

it cant be both  

Ah so "it created a problem" is somehow objective reality?  Interesting.  Seems to me that's every bit as subjective as claiming this is perfectly reasonable.  I'll let you have your opinion if I'm allowed mine. How's that sound?

[AliamRationem.5172]

3 minutes ago, Pezz.4758 said:

 

What does open world questing have to do with game balance? 

Plenty. This is primarily an open world game and nobody enjoys wasting their time on perpetually underpowered classes.  That being a relative concept, balance matters even in open world.

They made these changes to make room for other specs. They said as much.

[Pezz.4758]

2 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Ah so "it created a problem" is somehow objective reality?  Interesting.  Seems to me that's every bit as subjective as claiming this is perfectly reasonable.  I'll let you have your opinion if I'm allowed mine. How's that sound?

 

You and I are in conflict over the changes, objectively cohesion is worse than before the changes, where you and I were strangers, therefore, the catalyst was the changes, and thus, objectively creating problems. 

 

Philosophy aside, Im not here to argue or prove a point, my issue isnt with you, if Anet would just clarify Ill be on my way, its a marketing issue more than anything.

 

I want a game I can fill hearts and pick herbs and chill in the beautiful world, like I have for years, if that aint the directions, awesome, do you guys, just dont leave it to the last second after all pre orders are in, its shady  

[AliamRationem.5172]

19 minutes ago, Pezz.4758 said:

 

You and I are in conflict over the changes, objectively cohesion is worse than before the changes, where you and I were strangers, therefore, the catalyst was the changes, and thus, objectively creating problems. 

 

Philosophy aside, Im not here to argue or prove a point, my issue isnt with you, if Anet would just clarify Ill be on my way, its a marketing issue more than anything.

 

I want a game I can fill hearts and pick herbs and chill in the beautiful world, like I have for years, if that aint the directions, awesome, do you guys, just dont leave it to the last second after all pre orders are in, its shady  

I'm not understanding how any of these changes prevent you from achieving your stated goals.  As I've said, I feel the complaints are largely exaggerated and this is mostly just a reflection of the fact that nobody enjoys being nerfed.

Good luck on getting your answers though.

[Pezz.4758]

Just now, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I'm not understanding how any of these changes prevent you from achieving your stated goals.  As I've said, I feel the complaints are largely exaggerated and this is mostly just a reflection of the fact that nobody enjoys being nerfed.

Good luck on getting your answers though.

 

thats an easy answer

 

its a game, my only stated goal is to have fun, and finding out the 45 gold i spent on torment runes for my dps scourge 5 days before the expansion was not fun

finding out my power reaper spec, something that hasnt been meta in darn near 5 years got nerfed, was not fun

finding out my sustain leach flippy boi condi daredevil was nerfed was not fun

finding out ALL of this as i sat in the mightyteapot release day stream as im downloading the content was beyond not fun

it felt predatory and dishonest

 

I have some time to kill while the weather is trashy, gotta love Canadian "spring". Being honest with myself Im having more fun discussing this topic on the forums than I would regearing YET again in prep for the expansion. 

 

That said, if ive come off rude or anything I want to apologize, I know i have a couple responses at least with some salt in them, and that was not my intent. I just wanted to have fun, and Im not, and it makes me sad, because there is still so much darn snow outside lol

[Scoobaniec.9561]

32 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Oh no. One open world champ is difficult to solo therefore broken game.  Let the hyperbole train roll! Choo choo!

Found one keyboard warrior. And it wasnt even hard to do. Anyone else? All pros telling ppl to git gud dodge until u challenge them just like the guy i asked for duel and he never replied 🤣🤣🤣💯👌

 

Anyway it was example. There are plenty other i could name. Not everyone play at times where map r full (in fact most pof maps r dead) let alone do an event i might need. So whats the solution here? Give up? Find a pocket healer? Go LA and beg on knees for help? Like wtf harm it does to u if someone make a sustain build to solo open world champions? Those builds werent even meta to begin with. Go to any raid or fractral with a trailblazer torment runes rev and tell me how many seconds passed before you got kicked. How about we nerf damage by 70% in pve and delete current meta runes and sigils? 

[TheGrimm.5624]

5 hours ago, Cynder.2509 said:

What exactly is this supposed nerf? I play solo 99% of my time and I haven't noticed any change at all. And I'm using raid meta builds instead of petty casual offmeta. I'm still able to solo all kinds of stuff. Guess people don't know what dodge and combos are. This game already is too easy and now when it becomes a little bit changed people act like it's Dark Souls. Pathetic. 
Read your skills, traits and stats properly and know the simple mecahnics and you have no problem. 

 

So are you a zergling, roamer or havoc? Based on your post your a zergling and run in a group so sustain wasn't one of your build types. See how assumptions can be made?  If this didn't impact you, what is your point in the conversation?  Congrats you don't need to regear any of your toons. But you don't think that others don't have to or feel they need to? This conversation is about differing play styles in the different game modes. For some its the impact on PvE, some for the impact in sPvP, some its the impact in WvW. The overall conversation is about build diversity and options and in the balance of the differing types of builds which for sake of discussion will use general terms of glass cannon, balanced, cele, tank and sustain. These changes move more towards removing sustain as a build type in the various game modes. There are a lot of points in here why people were using a sustain build and numerous on where they were using it. The only counter points in here for them, was to make room or to encourage the new elites. I am not saying I agree that was the point of the changes, but agree sustain was a valid build type and would also agree sustain took a hit here. I am a theory crafter and have room for 32 toons. After all these years one of the biggest issues I have talked to people on why they have moved on from GW2 is about that that they had a build that they worked hard to build and then it was trashed. Now I am not saying all changes aren't valid and some builds aren't OP but I can get why people feel forced into changing builds they loved and how it makes them question is this time worth it. MMOs are time sinks after all and could this time be better used elsewhere. Having a variety of types of builds and considering that ANet has said they are not into the traditional Tank/DPS/Healer meta these changes feel more like they do want that meta and sustain doesn't have a place here for that across game modes. In WvW I use sustain builds on some of the toons because I am a roamer/havoc player and I have to plan for my 5 man to get jumped by 50 and have some chance for us to get away versus just getting wiped but still also need to have enough firepower to fight in 2v1s and take defended objectives before they call in overwhelming numbers. Having various types of builds, sustain was in a good balances to the other styles, so why the nerf? Its not a simple issue and its not one game mode. Based on the thread a lot of people are feeling they need to retool now, which isn't always cheap in materials or time and again it makes people feel they lost time spent, which creates an unfun feel in time spent which is even worse. So again, if it didn't impact you, all good, but don't assume it didn't others. 

[Stx.4857]

56 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

They didn't delete open world builds. Renegade and scourge are still top notch. Again this kind of ridiculous hyperbole is why the discussion is toxic. Stop playing the victim. These are perfectly reasonable nerfs.

They kind of did though.  Not everyone is talking about renegade or scourge.

 

Power Thief solo builds and Scrapper engineers in general just got knocked way down in terms of Solo power, and they weren't even at the top to begin with.  That's poor balancing and shows incompetence from the dev team.  Not everyone cares about torment runes or revenant like your posts defending these changes indicate.  Rev and scourge were obviously too strong.

 

Also, they specifically targeted one type of sustain, while ignoring others...   certain build rely solely on damage conversion sustain, while others rely on other sustain methods like heals or barriers from actions or skills.  A generalized nerf to damage conversion traits with zero compensation for those builds kills those builds.  It was a lazy balancing pass and blindly defending it is no better than blindly crying about it.

[yann.1946]

50 minutes ago, Pezz.4758 said:

 

What does open world questing have to do with game balance? 

A decent amount, isn't open world a part of the game? 

50 minutes ago, Pezz.4758 said:

And if this is the new direction why was it implemented stealthily at the last possible second?

I said the timing was horrible. 

50 minutes ago, Pezz.4758 said:

Anet could easily clear this up. Make a statement, clarifying their position on open world accessibility and difficulty and be done with it.

Would that actually help atm? 

I agree that they should be more open and talk about these things though. 

50 minutes ago, Pezz.4758 said:

If I have to be in dungeon/raid form to help a farmer with his apples in X heart quest than just come out and say it. 

Where did I ever suggest anything like that? Game balance matters for more then just "hardcore" gamemodes. (this very tread proves it, as the balance change directly affected some peoples enjoyment) 

[Jski.6180]

Just how bad did anet think there updates are to the EoD classes they are hiding them. Its such bad faith in EoD and gw2 over all that anet has.

[AliamRationem.5172]

26 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

They kind of did though.  Not everyone is talking about renegade or scourge.

 

Power Thief solo builds and Scrapper engineers in general just got knocked way down in terms of Solo power, and they weren't even at the top to begin with.  That's poor balancing and shows incompetence from the dev team.  Not everyone cares about torment runes or revenant like your posts defending these changes indicate.  Rev and scourge were obviously too strong.

 

Also, they specifically targeted one type of sustain, while ignoring others...   certain build rely solely on damage conversion sustain, while others rely on other sustain methods like heals or barriers from actions or skills.  A generalized nerf to damage conversion traits with zero compensation for those builds kills those builds.  It was a lazy balancing pass and blindly defending it is no better than blindly crying about it.

I did mention thief was an odd choice because unlike the others they did actually have to pay for theirs and they weren't overperforming on sustain.  I think this is related to specter and will need future attention. 

Scrapper trait was just stupidly op for any minor trait.

[Ruisen.9471]

On 2/28/2022 at 9:48 PM, Nephalem.8921 said:

Because it was op af. it doesnt have 30sec cd traited and it still gets refunds, just not 100%.

Tormenting runes are dps runes in the first place, they add a lot of dmg. the sustain was a bonus. the were completely op compared to other runes. Then traits like IP could've stayed. it should always be dps vs sustain which most of these traits fullfilled. all except battle scars (dod) which was also the top dps option. they couldnt really nerf the dmg without affecting healing becuse its lifeleech.

I'm not talking about the numbers, I'm talking about the playstyle.    They can always fiddle with the numbers without changing the playstyle.

My problem is that they added new skill lines in firebrand which were cool, and was a selling point of the class.   And now, you barely get to use them since you have to wait 30s.

[Stx.4857]

38 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

I did mention thief was an odd choice because unlike the others they did actually have to pay for theirs and they weren't overperforming on sustain.  I think this is related to specter and will need future attention. 

Scrapper trait was just stupidly op for any minor trait.

....

 

The trait is now 5% barrier generation and you lose 180 Vitality.  It's garbage, and basically kills the spec for soloing.  Why on earth would you play glass cannon Scrapper when condi builds can do more damage and sustain better?

[AliamRationem.5172]

4 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

....

 

The trait is now 5% barrier generation and you lose 180 Vitality.  It's garbage, and basically kills the spec for soloing.  Why on earth would you play glass cannon Scrapper when condi builds can do more damage and sustain better?

So how did condi builds feel about a minor trait that dropped vitality for negligible amounts of barrier?  I agree the trait deserves a look.  It's garbage now.  But it was a brokenly OP trait before. No minor trait granted anything close to the sustain that trait provided at 15%. 

Maybe they can fix it when they fix all the 300s cd traits they borked 2 years ago?

[Stx.4857]

26 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

So how did condi builds feel about a minor trait that dropped vitality for negligible amounts of barrier?  I agree the trait deserves a look.  It's garbage now.  But it was a brokenly OP trait before. No minor trait granted anything close to the sustain that trait provided at 15%. 

Maybe they can fix it when they fix all the 300s cd traits they borked 2 years ago?

So your issue with the barrier generation on Scrapper was the placement of the trait, and not actually how that trait made the spec perform?  Sorry, but if a spec isn't overperforming, it doesn't need a nerf.  Period.  And again, that barrier generation was scrappers entire sustain.  It doesn't get heals from anywhere else..   it doesn't have defensive boons, or any non boon damage reduction, or even condi cleanse.  The spec played around that barrier generation.  

[Kastagir.2146]

LOL, Not even surprised that they did this right after launching a new expansion.

[Gibson.4036]

1 hour ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

So how did condi builds feel about a minor trait that dropped vitality for negligible amounts of barrier?  I agree the trait deserves a look.  It's garbage now.  But it was a brokenly OP trait before. No minor trait granted anything close to the sustain that trait provided at 15%. 

There probably would have been less reaction if things didn't go from "brokenly OP" to "garbage" in one patch. But I hear this is not unusual.

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

There probably would have been less reaction if things didn't go from "brokenly OP" to "garbage" in one patch. But I hear this is not unusual.

The trait would be fine and perfectly appropriate if they got rid of the negative vitality, in my opinion.  The 15% barrier return was totally ridiculous for a minor.

[AliamRationem.5172]

46 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

So your issue with the barrier generation on Scrapper was the placement of the trait, and not actually how that trait made the spec perform?  Sorry, but if a spec isn't overperforming, it doesn't need a nerf.  Period.  And again, that barrier generation was scrappers entire sustain.  It doesn't get heals from anywhere else..   it doesn't have defensive boons, or any non boon damage reduction, or even condi cleanse.  The spec played around that barrier generation.  

Disagree.

[Gorem.8104]

You know, it really says something when the 2 top posters in a topic, are both trolls who want the game to die so no one can ever play gw2 again. 

Nerfing accessibility is a bad thing. People are disabled, people have issues, many are not skilled gamers which they even admit too. 
What this shows is Anet and trolls don't care. That they don't want you playing the game. How dare we have easy to play specs that can survive in open world and allow you to slowly beat things without issue? 

This entire patch honestly was such a bad idea. It just shows disconnect. Need a statement from Anet about the changes and why they dislike people who can't play as well as others. 

[Pheex.8932]

Cool, literally my main -out of all my 19 characters- that I've been building slowly for over 6 months spending hundreds of gold and dozens if not hundreds of hours of farming and thousands of gems in aesthetics -to have a niche support spec for my friends- has been obliterated. Beautiful.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Pheex.8932

[Cuks.8241]

2 hours ago, Stx.4857 said:

So your issue with the barrier generation on Scrapper was the placement of the trait, and not actually how that trait made the spec perform?  Sorry, but if a spec isn't overperforming, it doesn't need a nerf.  Period.  And again, that barrier generation was scrappers entire sustain.  It doesn't get heals from anywhere else..   it doesn't have defensive boons, or any non boon damage reduction, or even condi cleanse.  The spec played around that barrier generation.  

Ok what you just said is complete kitten. Out of all the specs and professions you pick engie scrapper and describe it as "it doesn't have defensive boons, or any non boon damage reduction, or even condi cleanse.  The spec played around that barrier generation."

Did you ever actually check engie and scrapper traits and utilities and belt skills? Ever actually read Alchemy trait line, you know the one that can trigger a ton of defensive boons passively? Ever actually read elixirs' tooltips? Ever read Elixir S tooltip, you know the one that breaks stuns and makes you evade all attacks (non boon dmg reduction). Oh and for each of thess you get a belt skill that gives extra options.

And now the cherry on top: "OR EVEN CONDI CLEANSE". Did you ever actually play engineer? The king of condi cleanse. Oh and you get this nifty trait called purity of purpose that converts condis into boons. 

Btw you have hammer 4 that blocks attacks and also generates barrier. And if this is not enough a gyro for barrier generation. Yeah no non-boon dmg reduction at all. 

I dont think you even played engineer before.

Many of these nerfs were targeted at traits, runes, skills that can give big sustain with minimal investment, practically no trade off. So now you will need to take a choice and actually sacrifice some dmg for such great sustain. Boo hoo.

Btw this was not only targeted at open world (if it even was at all). Many of these overperforming features were a part of constant WvW complain. In addition, many of these were really strong in raids. You could make a build that had tank like abilities with minimum trade offs (qrapper for example for engie). Some you might even find on meta sites and some might not be as popular because they arent the speed clear builds but a smart raider might employ them and loose minimal dmg for godly sustain.

But even if this is open world only. Why shouldnt there be some balance between professions in open world? 

[Astralporing.1957]

3 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

There probably would have been less reaction if things didn't go from "brokenly OP" to "garbage" in one patch. But I hear this is not unusual.

Well, tbh it's far more common to nerf the underperforming builds in order to let even worse, but newer, builds shine. Or sometimes just for no reason whatsoever.

[TheGrimm.5624]

5 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Maybe they can fix it when they fix all the 300s cd traits they borked 2 years ago?

 

100% agree here, as soon as the call was made to move a cooldown to 300 seconds that should have been a decision point to just replace that spot. It basically made any of those lines now just have 2 options available to them. But that's a different thread.

[Stx.4857]

4 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

Ok what you just said is complete kitten. Out of all the specs and professions you pick engie scrapper and describe it as "it doesn't have defensive boons, or any non boon damage reduction, or even condi cleanse.  The spec played around that barrier generation."

Did you ever actually check engie and scrapper traits and utilities and belt skills? Ever actually read Alchemy trait line, you know the one that can trigger a ton of defensive boons passively? Ever actually read elixirs' tooltips? Ever read Elixir S tooltip, you know the one that breaks stuns and makes you evade all attacks (non boon dmg reduction). Oh and for each of thess you get a belt skill that gives extra options.

And now the cherry on top: "OR EVEN CONDI CLEANSE". Did you ever actually play engineer? The king of condi cleanse. Oh and you get this nifty trait called purity of purpose that converts condis into boons. 

Btw you have hammer 4 that blocks attacks and also generates barrier. And if this is not enough a gyro for barrier generation. Yeah no non-boon dmg reduction at all. 

I dont think you even played engineer before.

Many of these nerfs were targeted at traits, runes, skills that can give big sustain with minimal investment, practically no trade off. So now you will need to take a choice and actually sacrifice some dmg for such great sustain. Boo hoo.

Btw this was not only targeted at open world (if it even was at all). Many of these overperforming features were a part of constant WvW complain. In addition, many of these were really strong in raids. You could make a build that had tank like abilities with minimum trade offs (qrapper for example for engie). Some you might even find on meta sites and some might not be as popular because they arent the speed clear builds but a smart raider might employ them and loose minimal dmg for godly sustain.

But even if this is open world only. Why shouldnt there be some balance between professions in open world? 

Yikes. 

 

You come at me all aggressive and yet every single sentence is wrong.

 

Where to start..  Alchemy trait line isn't part of Scrapper, its a core trait line.  Also, if YOU knew anything about engineers, you would know dropping explosives or firearms for Alchemy is a massive damage loss, not as you describe it.. 'minimal'.

 

You mentioned barrier being damage reduction.  It's not.  It's an absorb shield.  

 

Even if these nerfs weren't targeting open world, that's irrelevant as they effect it.

 

You talk about sustain with no trade off being targeted...   so why did they nerf Thief trait that you literally lose 250 ferocity to take?  Scrapper trait has a trade off, you lose 180 vitality.  Necro 10% leech from dots has you missing out on the scepter trait which is big.  

 

You're going to have to do better man.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Stx.4857