I'm not buying EoD because Virtuoso is bad.

[Yoci.2481]

It was rather obvious after the betas but now we see it confirmed. A-Nets treatment of Virtuoso and Mesmer in general as well as their neglect of WvW balance led me to the decision to not buy the expansion. I could go into detail about all that is wrong but this forum has discussed all that ad nauseam. Perhaps in the future A-Net will display a change of attitude that might make me reconsider my opinion but until then I will spend my money elsewhere.

[Salt Mode.3780]

Hey they said WvW will be the focal point of the expansion so far all ive heard good was how great PvE is. I mean #Alliance i wonder how that is going. 

Oh wait they said WvW was gonna be the focal point not PvE....must of been dreaming that I read that....

[phokus.8934]

This elite has so many issues that I don't feel like writing them out on my mobile.  This is clearly a pve spec that falls short on every level and appeases to those who think Mesmer clone management is difficult.

Their design of the traits, bladesongs, utilities and weapon function are so misplaced and poorly done that you cannot convince me this was a rushed elite (as well as this whole "expansion").

Someone in my discord group said it best - this was just a living world series dump for pve Andy's.

I expected nothing for this elite and was still somehow let down.  And the next balance update isnt until early summer?  Astonishing.

Edited March 1, 2022 by phokus.8934

[Tseison.4659]

Hey!! I definitely agree with the frustration and anger, however, when I started playing EoD and seeing all the memorable places I use to be in when I first started Factions, I definitely would recommend getting it, even for just the standard version. 

Additionally, a lot of the areas are filling up with players and ALOT of them are still playing elite specs from PoF, HoT and/or Core, as am I. 

A lot of people are on the same boat as you regarding the elite specs, but you can still enjoy the game without them. Sadly I wish we got something better and more unique to play with, but in all honesty it just seems the previous expansion elite specs are far better than what we got.

☺️

Edited March 1, 2022 by Tseison.4659

[Yoci.2481]

I never really played GW1 so Cantha or whatever it's called means nothing to me. The whole GW2 story has been rather hit or miss with how it is implemented in the living world and the addons. I liked the branching story lines and the the general story telling of the base game more, even though the last few chapters feel rushed and would benefit from some polish. The newer PvE areas are all about farming and grinding achievements, another thing that means absolutely nothing to me. The only reason I kept playing was WvW and Mesmer. And both have become the most neglected parts of this game. This last addon only cemented that. I will not spend any more money on this game and I will no longer recommend it to friends.

[Mell.4873]

And here I am to say that I really enjoy Virtuoso and most of a my guild like it to.

It plays so different than the other two elites, I mean without illusions for defence you spend most of your time managing aegis to prevent damage. 

It takes some time to get used to but it is amazing when it all comes together. 

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

Same, they left in most of the bugs I / we reported as well since beta 4.

[viquing.8254]

@Title : me too,  not an interesting spec in PvP/WvW. Purely a grandma open world spec.

The sad thing is that I was asking for a no clone spec since first extension.

[Simonoly.4352]

This is sadly my reasoning for not purchasing the expansion also and I'm not saying this to be mean or deride those who enjoy Virtuoso - the new elite specialisations just didn't meet my expectations during the beta and unfortunately new class features are a fundamental part of why I would buy an expansion.

I do really hope the expansion is successful though - clearly lots of work has gone into it 🤗

[Nezekan.2671]

7 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

And here I am to say that I really enjoy Virtuoso and most of a my guild like it to.

It plays so different than the other two elites, I mean without illusions for defence you spend most of your time managing aegis to prevent damage. 

It takes some time to get used to but it is amazing when it all comes together. 

Only 3 traits work in the entire spec, which is probably what you are using in open world PvE. If you think the spec works while 66% of it doesn't. no one will take you seriously.

[otto.5684]

8 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

And here I am to say that I really enjoy Virtuoso and most of a my guild like it to.

It plays so different than the other two elites, I mean without illusions for defence you spend most of your time managing aegis to prevent damage. 

It takes some time to get used to but it is amazing when it all comes together. 

I like too. It has some major issues though. Like mostly every other EoD elite, it is incomplete.

[Mell.4873]

45 minutes ago, Nezekan.2671 said:

Only 3 traits work in the entire spec, which is probably what you are using in open world PvE. If you think the spec works while 66% of it doesn't. no one will take you seriously.

Its only minor bugs mostly that illusion traits don't apply to yourself or the Bladesongs.

[Nezekan.2671]

15 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Its only minor bugs mostly that illusion traits don't apply to yourself or the Bladesongs.

When I said only 3 traits work, I meant only 3 are remotely viable. I didn't mean they are bugged.

[Mell.4873]

45 minutes ago, Nezekan.2671 said:

When I said only 3 traits work, I meant only 3 are remotely viable. I didn't mean they are bugged.

Oh well then I disagree all the traits a fine (when the are not bugged). There is plenty of synergy, condition provides high sustain, while power provides crazy burst and satisfying Bladesongs. I am honestly impressed since all traits are viable in PVE rather than chrono and mirage where some are not.

I guess at the very least you could make a argument that in a zerg or fighting a world boss some of the defensive traits are useless, but aegis can let you avoid mechanics so take it or leave it.

Edited March 1, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Nezekan.2671]

26 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Oh well then I disagree all the traits a fine (when the are not bugged). There is plenty of synergy, condition provides high sustain, while power provides crazy burst and satisfying Bladesongs. I am honestly impressed since all traits are viable in PVE rather than chrono and mirage where some are not.

I guess at the very least you could make a argument that in a zerg or fighting a world boss some of the defensive traits are useless, but aegis can let you avoid mechanics so take it or leave it.

I am leaving it. I can have 90% dodge rate as mirage in open world. I don't need aegis and great sword ambush is amazing, you will never fail to tag things in zergs and it's pretty powerful in solo as well. You get might and vuln too.

 

The condi traits are just bad. The first one needs you to use none condi weapons (such as dagger and greatsword) and crit with them to apply bleeding. Shatter 2 giving ferocity is not reliable as cd is too long and increasing bleed damage when you hardly apply bleed doesn't do anything. 

 

Virtuoso just doesn't have anything over mirage/chrono in any mode it seems. And both mirage and chrono are overnerfed in some modes. 

Edited March 1, 2022 by Nezekan.2671

[Mell.4873]

9 minutes ago, Nezekan.2671 said:

I am leaving it. I can have 90% dodge rate as mirage in open world. I don't need aegis and great sword ambush is amazing, you will never fail to tag things in zergs and it's pretty powerful in solo as well. You get might and vuln too.

 

The condi traits are just bad. The first one needs you to use none condi weapons (such as dagger and greatsword) and crit with them to apply bleeding. Shatter 2 giving ferocity is not reliable as cd is too long and increasing bleed damage when you hardly apply bleed doesn't do anything. 

 

Virtuoso just doesn't have anything over mirage/chrono in any mode it seems. And both mirage and chrono are overnerfed in some modes. 

Yeah again I made this point in another thread, adding more elite specialization will inevitably be disappointing.

Virtuoso main selling point is:

1. Aestheticly pleasing, with he floating daggers over your head, the nice sound they make when they spawn etc.
2. Ranged gameplay which is sorely lacking for Mesmer except for Greatsword/Staff which is lower damage compared to Virtuoso and melee counterparts
3. No need to manage clones and more important having them dying before a shatter (mirage trait Infinite Horizon can help)
4. Amazing in Boss battles
5. WVW has potential with boon rip and unlockable Bladesongs, I mean I will play it coming off the cheesy longbow soulbeast.

[FarmBotXD.1430]

9 hours ago, viquing.8254 said:

@Title : me too,  not an interesting spec in PvP/WvW. Purely a grandma open world spec.

The sad thing is that I was asking for a no clone spec since first extension.

this
Plus I wont buy new expac on principle, they nerfed to kitten old specs to make new ones good instead off making them good from the start. I am not going to pay money to people that pull kitten like that.
 

[Alpha.1308]

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

Aestheticly pleasing

that's not an argument for a spec

it could have been the same, but also good, like, you know, at the same time

 

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

Ranged gameplay

barely

they literally have a trait telling them to be within 600

 

in pve who needs to range anyway especially losing out on group buffs that are also pbaoe, also ignoring mirage existence, and in pvp good luck you can strafe and reflect everything so that's just a horrible failure 

 

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

No need to manage clones and more important having them dying before a shatter

when exactly was this an issue

that's basically the only argument the devs even stated

you know what the problem is?

swapping out clones, for long cooldown shatters

the whole point is to get you going from fight to fight

yet, with the shatters being the SAME EXACT THING, nothing changes, like, at all 

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

• Amazing in Boss battles
•  

is it really 

you generate more blades than you even have shatters to use them on

so by nature this is LITERALLY a burst only spec

because the sustain gets overwritten, and overtime, that adds up each time you waste procs 

specifically, in boss battles

and..... the burst isn't even there.... to even make it worth it...
 

1 hour ago, Mell.4873 said:

WVW has potential

no

it literally physically does not

i have tried so hard to make this not awful because i just want to do SOMETHING different in my guild being the mesmer main, and trying not to be absolutely worthless as a spot just to bring mesmer utility 

it's still 100% worse than just using power mirage for GS ambush or mirage staff ambush for alacrity/might stacking

and even worse than the dumb chrono tank meta that i still hate because of how wasteful the minstrel stats are on a freaking class with absolutely no outgoing healing, and THAT is absolutely saying something ridiculous if i'm saying that trash is better than this trash, because i dump on that thing all the time  for being a waste

but it should still have better strips overall (not 100% but i'm assuming because of just how bad it is) and CC especially from gravwell and shield 5 even existing 

and in any small scale, power or condi, clones outweigh blades as a mechanic, period 

 

Edited March 2, 2022 by Alpha.1308

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Alpha.1308 said:

that's not an argument for a spec

it could have been the same, but also good, like, you know, at the same time

 

barely

they literally have a trait telling them to be within 600

 

in pve who needs to range anyway especially losing out on group buffs that are also pbaoe, also ignoring mirage existence, and in pvp good luck you can strafe and reflect everything so that's just a horrible failure 

 

when exactly was this an issue

that's basically the only argument the devs even stated

you know what the problem is?

swapping out clones, for long cooldown shatters

the whole point is to get you going from fight to fight

yet, with the shatters being the SAME EXACT THING, nothing changes, like, at all 

is it really 

you generate more blades than you even have shatters to use them on

so by nature this is LITERALLY a burst only spec

because the sustain gets overwritten, and overtime, that adds up each time you waste procs 

specifically, in boss battles

and..... the burst isn't even there.... to even make it worth it...
 

no

it literally physically does not

i have tried so hard to make this not awful because i just want to do SOMETHING different in my guild being the mesmer main, and trying not to be absolutely worthless as a spot just to bring mesmer utility 

it's still 100% worse than just using power mirage for GS ambush or mirage staff ambush for alacrity/might stacking

and even worse than the dumb chrono tank meta that i still hate because of how wasteful the minstrel stats are on a freaking class with absolutely no outgoing healing, and THAT is absolutely saying something ridiculous if i'm saying that trash is better than this trash, because i dump on that thing all the time  for being a waste

but it should still have better strips overall (not 100% but i'm assuming because of just how bad it is) and CC especially from gravwell and shield 5 even existing 

and in any small scale, power or condi, clones outweigh blades as a mechanic, period 

 

Well this is my personal experience which you can take or leave.

I mean my response to all your points are the same as what you arguing so there is no point explaining why I think for instance Virtuoso is better verse bosses.

[Salt Mode.3780]

34 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Well this is my personal experience which you can take or leave.

I mean my response to all your points are the same as what you arguing so there is no point explaining why I think for instance Virtuoso is better verse bosses.

Your personal opinions are questionable based on your history of posts that contradicts urself....worst part is people who havent read your post history will be mislead by you and invest in time only to realize it isnt that great...yikes....

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Your personal opinions are questionable based on your history of posts that contradicts urself....worst part is people who havent read your post history will be mislead by you and invest in time only to realize it isnt that great...yikes....

Not really, I mean I'm enjoying it and finding virtuoso comparable to the other two elites. Whats wrong with sharing the opinion, I mean I am a mesmer main. 

Im not going around doing this on other profession forums. 

[Mikali.9651]

I did buy the expansion, but I don't like it. Maps look just weird, they don't make sense for me as places where people would live, they are also very different from GW1 places...too much different. There are not enough events, though meta event is really good.

 

Especs fail short for me, balance patches are still just a promise, they didn't really do a thing from all feedback we gave... 

 

I expected as such from this expansion, I bought it mainly for masteries, but this could be the last expansion that I buy. It's been 17 years, but this Anet is not one from its first years. It is clear to me that they don't have a clear vision, and ideas for professions, WvW, PvP. 

 

I always liked PvE in this game, it has the best open-world content, but everything else fails for me.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Mikali.9651

[Chombe.1763]

So I have played with Virtuoso for a couple days now and I have to say I enjoy it. The animations are really nice and the dagger spells are fun. I wish they improved the basic attack in some way though, it doesn't feel as good as the other main hand basic attacks. However my main issue is the trait lines, I feel there isn't enough variety

[OriOri.8724]

Virtuoso is not fun for me either, but that seems like a weird reason to not buy the expac at all. There's a whole new continent, new story, new masteries etc.... Even all 9 new elite specs together are only a small part of EoD

[Salt Mode.3780]

1 hour ago, OriOri.8724 said:

Virtuoso is not fun for me either, but that seems like a weird reason to not buy the expac at all. There's a whole new continent, new story, new masteries etc.... Even all 9 new elite specs together are only a small part of EoD

You would be surprised how big of an impact especs are compared to "content". The only saving grace for pve and lore wise is this expansion is Cantha based but if it wasn't well....

For those who WvW and PvP, Cantha or not it doesn't matter because the only thing that the player base has looking for is e-specs even they fell hard.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780