I'm not buying EoD because Virtuoso is bad.

[viquing.8254]

5 hours ago, OriOri.8724 said:

Virtuoso is not fun for me either, but that seems like a weird reason to not buy the expac at all. There's a whole new continent, new story, new masteries etc.... Even all 9 new elite specs together are only a small part of EoD

You right, but for me it's not only the espec. It's more about the accumulation of frustration thoses past years.

[Syprus Soulslayer.1640]

you guys are doing it wrong... trying running dagger torch, scepter pistol... Condi cleanses via mantra of the resolve, blink for mobility, mass invis for elite for GTFO / stealth ( virtuoso elite is BAD for WvW ), and some other vanilla utility ( something that offers invis preferred ) I wanted to try to use the new heal but it's buggy and doesn't fire 1/2 the time so I went Signet of Ether ( heals on blade regen ) synergize the other traits for healing sustain ( chaos ) and run whatever other tree you want ( dueling for pistol, domination for GS, etc ) it'll feel much better.  the new utilities are hard to use in PvP because no invis and makes the ageis feel useless because it only blocks 1 attack.  You NEED some stealth for PvP / WvW to make up for not having clones or break target skills / attacks like mirage otherwise you'll get blown up 

[Daishi.6027]

Hear hear!

and it's more than just our meager voices on these forums. There are many many more mesmer mains who have decided not to participate in A-net's constant abuse, because they will never change. It's been years now, the double standards need to end or we will not give you money.

Many of you have differing reasons to not buy the expac, from the design of virtuoso, to the gutting of our other specs, maybe you're simply tired of the bias against you by devs and the balance discord alike, or A-net refusing to listen to what is truly fair despite the valid arguments and rational, and many more. But to you and to the voices not here on the forums, I thank you for putting up a stern front in protest.

Yet we're not alone in our dislike of the expac, A-net is even bleeding whale money and has been for a while now, which I hope makes A-net feel this even stronger, so when they look back at their lower profit margins they'll see Mesmer's plight and maybe, for once; learn... Hahaha who am I kidding, they'll double and triple down to their own demise. But that's fine by me; it would be well deserved.

And to those few of you who genuinely like Virtuoso... More power to you honestly.
I'm kinda glad anyone can have fun with mesmer at all at this point, I'd argue you have a certain level of ignorance of the finer details, and maybe you're the type who doesn't care about wvw or pvp, maybe you've only been here for a year or two (my condolences), maybe it's your first introduction to mesmer from another class and it feels accessible; None of it matters if you're having fun doing what you do. But you do need to understand it's been almost a decade for some of us, the numbers just don't add up in many ways, and we've been through all the damage; and despite the topic tittle in many cases it's more reasons than just virtuoso.
(Either that or you're an a-net plant in which case: kitten the kittening kitty kat.)

Edited March 4, 2022 by Daishi.6027

[Salt Mode.3780]

6 hours ago, Daishi.6027 said:

Hear hear!

and it's more than just our meager voices on these forums. There are many many more mesmer mains who have decided not to participate in A-net's constant abuse, because they will never change. It's been years now, the double standards need to end or we will not give you money.

Many of you have differing reasons to not buy the expac, from the design of virtuoso, to the gutting of our other specs, maybe you're simply tired of the bias against you by devs and the balance discord alike, or A-net refusing to listen to what is truly fair despite the valid arguments and rational, and many more. But to you and to the voices not here on the forums, I thank you for putting up a stern front in protest.

Yet we're not alone in our dislike of the expac, A-net is even bleeding whale money and has been for a while now, which I hope makes A-net feel this even stronger, so when they look back at their lower profit margins they'll see Mesmer's plight and maybe, for once; learn... Hahaha who am I kidding, they'll double and triple down to their own demise. But that's fine by me; it would be well deserved.

And to those few of you who genuinely like Virtuoso... More power to you honestly.
I'm kinda glad anyone can have fun with mesmer at all at this point, I'd argue you have a certain level of ignorance of the finer details, and maybe you're the type who doesn't care about wvw or pvp, maybe you've only been here for a year or two (my condolences), maybe it's your first introduction to mesmer from another class and it feels accessible; None of it matters if you're having fun doing what you do. But you do need to understand it's been almost a decade for some of us, the numbers just don't add up in many ways, and we've been through all the damage; and despite the topic tittle in many cases it's more reasons than just virtuoso.
(Either that or you're an a-net plant in which case: kitten the kittening kitty kat.)

Thank you for this.

[grx.8714]

Maybe unpopular opinion, I am trying it out in sPvP because I don't have the hero points available for WvW or PvE and it's super fun to play on Berseker amulet with Staff + Sword/Sword.

You are very survivable, I love sword3 leap, you got aegis for days better than guardian, evade frames, blocks, and the burst is pretty good and you can do it very often, I stuck up Blades very easily on the proper build.

 

Ah and you have 2 dodges, yaysh xD

 

If you don't like it whatever, nobody is forcing you.

[Mouse.7382]

I wanted to like it--I tried to like it.

 

As a mesmer main, which is fully legendary geared out (thus playing entirely diffent build thru all EOD maps)--I played thru every possible build I could think of, (as well as recommendations from others testing)--as well as beta testing, prior--but I just cannot get behind this clunky class (not to mention skill bugs you can read about in other forum posts).

 

Even if the numerous bugs were fixed--I still will not be playing it.

 

There needs to have the LOS issues (and snap to target) with dagger skills and F skills fixed before I'd consider playing this again.  Not only is the gameplay clunky--the dps is subpar to other classes.  Not to mention the lack of utility.

 

The only thing this elite has going for it, is the 'pretty' graphics.

 

If you like it, more power to you--its back to mirage and my clones for me

[Hot Boy.7138]

I didn't buy the expansion also because I'm not happy with the state of mesmer. Disappointed with virtuoso. I used to love Chrono when it was released, but swapped to mirage as soon as it came out. Mirage felt like the perfect power sword/sword spec except anet wanted it to be condi only for pve. When I did go back to chrono it was nerfed so much it didn't feel at all like release to me. And I love mirage, but I'm still bitter about the one dodge. Virtuoso feel mechanically like core mesmer to me, just cosmetically swapping clones for blades.  I'll be checking for balance updates so I can get back into the game.

[Nezekan.2671]

Mesmer was a dying class, and with Virtuoso it's dead. So many new e-specs who are better than us, but our new spec is bottom tier. Only does DPS but less than Spectre, Catalyst and Harbinger, who also bring boons and support while DPSing. Other than the niche Chrono tank, Mesmer is outclassed in every single game mode. Literally shooting yourself in the foot if you play Mesmer.

[Hallow.7368]

On 3/1/2022 at 6:05 AM, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Hey they said WvW will be the focal point of the expansion so far all ive heard good was how great PvE is. I mean #Alliance i wonder how that is going. 

Oh wait they said WvW was gonna be the focal point not PvE....must of been dreaming that I read that....

I don't remember this? I remember them saying they wanted WvW to be a corner stone of the game, but that has little to do with EoD. Hoping that WvW restructuring is going well, but I feel fairly certain that they never said it would be a focal point of the expansion. 

[Hallow.7368]

On 3/5/2022 at 11:20 AM, Mouse.7382 said:

I wanted to like it--I tried to like it.

 

As a mesmer main, which is fully legendary geared out (thus playing entirely diffent build thru all EOD maps)--I played thru every possible build I could think of, (as well as recommendations from others testing)--as well as beta testing, prior--but I just cannot get behind this clunky class (not to mention skill bugs you can read about in other forum posts).

 

Even if the numerous bugs were fixed--I still will not be playing it.

 

There needs to have the LOS issues (and snap to target) with dagger skills and F skills fixed before I'd consider playing this again.  Not only is the gameplay clunky--the dps is subpar to other classes.  Not to mention the lack of utility.

 

The only thing this elite has going for it, is the 'pretty' graphics.

 

If you like it, more power to you--its back to mirage and my clones for me

You do you. Plenty of other people like it. While there are definitely issues to be sorted out I love it thematically and I also like the other mesmer specs. Just because it's part of your class doesn't mean you have to go out of your way to like it though. I respect your opinion though since you aren't hardcore raging on the forums for everything about it to be completely changed. 

[Flow.2947]

I don't know why ppl complaining here, something about my experience and yours is i guess totally different.

I am mainly doing wvw playing berserk gear. I am shredding ppl there. I am not roaming i run in a group of 20-25 ppl and dps wise i am under the top 3 playing degger/sword and sword/focus... behind a catalyst and a herald. 

I love it !

Belive me when i say if dagger and shadders would not be a projectile they would be op

Pve is also great dmg. Yesterday i was sometimes fist sometimes second

Was not in pvp yet

 

 

 

[Salt Mode.3780]

12 hours ago, Flow.2947 said:

I don't know why ppl complaining here, something about my experience and yours is i guess totally different.

I am mainly doing wvw playing berserk gear. I am shredding ppl there. I am not roaming i run in a group of 20-25 ppl and dps wise i am under the top 3 playing degger/sword and sword/focus... behind a catalyst and a herald. 

I love it !

Belive me when i say if dagger and shadders would not be a projectile they would be op

Pve is also great dmg. Yesterday i was sometimes fist sometimes second

Was not in pvp yet

 

 

 

Here is where you are totally wrong. Fact that you are in a zerg setting is already bolstering your dps output because of the perma quickness, alacrity, and might stacks on you. In fact you put the same buffs on a staff weaver or a well's power scourge will out dps you by a margin. 

Also when you say your dps where is your source coming from, bladesongs or the utility aoes? Don't make blank statements like this with nothing to back it up. 

I've ran Virtuoso in a zerg setting with 3 different sets all glass cannon from zerk to viper to even grieving and no it doesnt offer insane damage in a zerg setting this is absolutely false. Fact that you get projectile denied from your shatters is already a huge dps loss. I have full legendary armors and accessories so I am able to test out every stat combination possible. Like these arent comments from a mesmer main.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Salt Mode.3780

[Nezekan.2671]

The main spec developer CMC mentioned that Virtuoso needs works on their last stream before launch. So as I said earlier, this mentality of people who come here and say "Virtuoso is fine in WvW or PvP" is baffling to me. It's simply invalid, because it's no longer the subjective opinion of saying it's pretty or useful in open world. These game modes have objective criteria that Virtuoso simply does not meet. I'm pretty sure these people cannot even reach the benchmark dps by hitting a golem, and every time they say things like "I did this and it worked", but these anecdotes don't really do anything. 

IDK what they are trying to achieve here. If they are good faith, they are just new/casual and don't care much. If they are bad faith, they are just trying to dilute the community by trying to pretend Virtuoso is "fine". Either way, it's not an opinion we need consider. If they are good faith and think Virtuoso is "fine, why would they oppose buffs to Virtuoso? If they are bad faith, then screw them, we definitely don't need to consider anything they say.

Virtuoso needs fundamental changes, period.

Edited March 10, 2022 by Nezekan.2671

[Flow.2947]

8 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Here is where you are totally wrong. Fact that you are in a zerg setting is already bolstering your dps output because of the perma quickness, alacrity, and might stacks on you. In fact you put the same buffs on a staff weaver or a well's power scourge will out dps you by a margin. 

Also when you say your dps where is your source coming from, bladesongs or the utility aoes? Don't make blank statements like this with nothing to back it up. 

I've ran Virtuoso in a zerg setting with 3 different sets all glass cannon from zerk to viper to even grieving and no it doesnt offer insane damage in a zerg setting this is absolutely false. Fact that you get projectile denied from your shatters is already a huge dps loss. I have full legendary armors and accessories so I am able to test out every stat combination possible. Like these arent comments from a mesmer main.

i can back it up and i will share it with you personally if you want. Please be so polite and don't share with everyone because some of the ppl i am in squad with don't want to be exposed in the forum. 

Feel free to give me Feedback here.

You are right that a weaver outdpses me, you are wrong about the scourge because you out ranges it and your utilities are on a shorter cool-down.

 

 

 

[Salt Mode.3780]

6 hours ago, Flow.2947 said:

i can back it up and i will share it with you personally if you want. Please be so polite and don't share with everyone because some of the ppl i am in squad with don't want to be exposed in the forum. 

Feel free to give me Feedback here.

You are right that a weaver outdpses me, you are wrong about the scourge because you out ranges it and your utilities are on a shorter cool-down.

 

 

 

After looking into the data you sent me, thank you btw, I was right with my assumptions that shatters were not being used at all.

As a core mechanic to our class especially when the class revolves around blades/shatter more so on Virtuoso then any other class, this is very disheartening.

[Nezekan.2671]

14 hours ago, Flow.2947 said:

i can back it up and i will share it with you personally if you want. Please be so polite and don't share with everyone because some of the ppl i am in squad with don't want to be exposed in the forum. 

Feel free to give me Feedback here.

You are right that a weaver outdpses me, you are wrong about the scourge because you out ranges it and your utilities are on a shorter cool-down.

 

 

 

Scourge's ground based attacks are unblockable. If you are on it, you will take damage. A big advantage over Virtuoso who is projectile only (all blockable).

[Flow.2947]

16 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

After looking into the data you sent me, thank you btw, I was right with my assumptions that shatters were not being used at all.

As a core mechanic to our class especially when the class revolves around blades/shatter more so on Virtuoso then any other class, this is very disheartening.

i would say its balanced between shatters weapon skills and utilities i would not say that i didn't use shatters (bladesongs)

https://ibb.co/PzHWY7D

 

Here the other average numbers best i can do sry

https://ibb.co/9r976tW

 

I hope the links work

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

On 3/2/2022 at 3:06 PM, OriOri.8724 said:

Virtuoso is not fun for me either, but that seems like a weird reason to not buy the expac at all. There's a whole new continent, new story, new masteries etc.... Even all 9 new elite specs together are only a small part of EoD

I started playing the xpac this week and while the maps are gorgeous they're a kittening nightmare to navigate, reminds me of tangled depths and black citadel, if it wasn't for the flying mounts I would have ragequit this in a heartbeat. To add to this the maps are away to big, they went with the bigger and more complex the better and ruined the whole kitten. 

[OriOri.8724]

12 minutes ago, Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

I started playing the xpac this week and while the maps are gorgeous they're a kittening nightmare to navigate, reminds me of tangled depths and black citadel, if it wasn't for the flying mounts I would have ragequit this in a heartbeat. To add to this the maps are away to big, they went with the bigger and more complex the better and ruined the whole kitten. 

Echovald definitely took some getting used to, still not entirely used to navigating around it. But I will say that ANet did greatly improve the minimap on echovald vs tangled depths, its actually been incredibly helpful in showing me how to get to where I want to go