Auto Attack Damage

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

After an inordinate amount of time I've finally done it.  I've compiled the auto attack damage for every profession that I play (all but ranger).  I've also included some of the simple rotations just for a comparison.  All tests were done with these conditions:

• All boons except for resistance, resolution, aegis, stability.
• Enemy has all conditions and 25 vulnerability
• Unique Buffs include Banners, Spirits (Sun, Frost), Empower Allies, Pinpoint Distribution, Assassin's Presence, Spotter.
• No food or consumables were consumed for these tests.
• Either 16 malign or 16 mighty wvw infusions were on the build.
• Power builds were full berserkers with scholar runes unless otherwise stated.  Condition builds were full vipers with.. varying runes depending on specific profession.
• All gear is full ascended.
• Golem was set to large, 1 million health, and was attacked from behind.

I did this a few years ago as part of an argument, but I've decided to do these tests again with no real antagonist in mind.  This is because this information is seldom documented, and yet is useful for helping people make builds and test them out.  Note that balance shifts over time, and these numbers may not necessarily accurately represent future values.   Starting with the light armor classes and going up:

 

MESMER

Power Virtuoso: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiABwyhrlVw2YrsJmLO0KdRVA-zRIYR0zXG1mCVUB2eACoLAA-e
Dagger auto: 15.4k

Dagger 1 through 3: 22.4k

 Condi Virtuoso: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiABgqhrlVwWZIsEmLWOP+xfA-zRJYmRP/YEPF6UB+OAhzD-e
Dagger auto: 12.5k
Dagger 1-3: 15.5k
Condi Axe Mirage (snowcrows build):
Axe Auto: 11.7k
Axe Auto w/ clones: 23k
Axe Auto w/ clones + dodge: 27.3k
Scepter Auto w/ clones: 12.3k
Scepter clone dodge: 18.1k
Staff Auto w/ clones: 15.6k
Staff Clone dodge: 22.3k
Power Chronomancer (snowcrows build)
Sword Auto: 17.8k
Sword + Blurred Frenzy: 20k
Greatsword Auto: 10k

 

For most professions, the condition weapons have significantly weaker auto attacks, instead relying more on utilities and particular skills to inflict most of their damage.  You'll see examples of this in later numbers.  Mesmer bucks the trend, instead having immensely high condition damage stacked into auto attacks and dodge.  This makes Axe and Staff Mirage one of the most effective condi builds if you want to sit back, relax, and press very few buttons. 

When it comes to Virtuoso specifically the dagger damage actually surprised me with how effective it was.  Power Dagger has roughly the same DPS as Staff Mirage when it comes to auto attack.  The build I used may be in question, since Virt stacks blades far faster than I anticipated, and it may be better to take Illusions over Domination to make F1 an ammo skill.  I wouldn't know, since I didn't test shatters in any capacity.  Doing a hundred different DPS tests tends to make me lazy in an ironic way.  The condition damage from Dagger was also higher than expected, however I doubt that full DPS rotations could compete with what Mirage does by accident.

 

ELEMENTALIST
Catalyst: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PGQAIlJwWZXMK2LOaLbRTA-zRIYRUwXG1mAVUA2eACoHA-e
Fire Hammer Auto: 9.2k
Water Hammer Auto: 12k
Air Hammer Auto: 8.7k
Earth Hammer Auto:13.2k
Power Weaver (Snowcrows Build)
Fire Staff Auto: 10.3k
Fire Staff Auto + Lava Font: 16.5k
Water Auto + Ice Spike: 5.3k
Air Auto: 7.5k
Earth Auto + Eruption: 7.8k
Sword Fire Auto: 16.2k
Sword Water Auto: 7.5k
Sword Air Auto: 17.9k
Sword Earth Auto:13.4k
Dagger Fire Auto: 13.7k
Dagger Water Auto: 7.8k
Dagger Air Auto: 16.8k
Dagger Earth Auto: 11.9k
Scepter Fire Auto: 10.9k
Scepter Water Auto: 8.6k
Scepter Air Auto: 9.2k
Scepter Earth Auto: 4.1k

Griever Weaver: (Snowcrows Build)

Fire Sword Auto: 13.4k
Earth Sword Auto: 11.3k
Power Tempest (Snowcrows Weaver but with Tempest Instead)
Dagger + Air Overload:  18.8k

 

You now know my pain.  There was a gear limitation here, since I do not own true condi weapons to test out any theoretical condi builds.  However, it should be noted that Condi builds on Ele rely heavily on utilities and active weapon usage, with many auto attacks having no condition element at all.  Getting full vipers weapons would probably just lead to to three more entries (scepter fire, scepter earth, dagger earth).  If anyone wants to contribute their own data, feel free to post down below.  Once again, Weaver paradoxically has the most forgiving damage output in spite of it's perceived complexity, boasting the highest sustained damage next to Air Overload spamming Tempest. 

The Catalyst was... difficult to test, and to be frank it shows the limitations of what I'm doing here.  Everything the catalyst does, from its unique self-buffs to all of its damage, cannot be done with its auto attack.  The #1 skill on hammer is largely filler, existing to fill the gaps in the incredibly frenetic damage rotations Catalyst is known for.  There is no combination of traits that raises damage output without having to spin and leap and stun for auras.  

 

NECROMANCER

Condition Harbinger (Snowcrows)
Pistol Auto: 10.1k
Scepter Auto: 12.9k
Shroud Auto + Shroud 2: 27.6k until shroud drops
Staff All DPS skills: 6 .5k
Power Reaper (Snowcrows)
Greatsword Auto: 17.5k
Dagger Auto: 15.1k
Axe Auto: 11k
Shroud Auto (dagger out of shroud): 25.1k in shroud, 22.6k total.

 

I didn't do much with Scourge here, mostly because the modifiers between it and Harbinger turn out to be roughly the same before Shades start getting involved.  I was surprised with how low the pistol auto attack turned out to be.  This means the idea of camping the pistol and using warhorn + dagger to alternate off-hand is probably a bad idea, since pistol DPS drops off of a cliff once skills 2 and 3 go off.  I should note that I used Renegade Runes while testing the scepter, and Tormenting Runes while testing the pistol.  It didn't seem fair to use a rune set that specifically buffed one over the other, even if that is the case in the field.  What surprised me is how hard Harbinger murders everything with it's shroud.  I didn't expect it to be that high.  
 

THIEF

Specter: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PawAsqjlhyOYIMW2IO2W9xLA-zRJYmRLfZkbK0RB49BIceA-e
Scepter auto: 13k
Scepter + Pistol 3: 18.3k
Scepter + Dagger 3: 21k
Scepter + Siphon: 14.5k
Shroud auto with Siphon: 15k
Shroud skills 1, 2, 4 with Siphon: 20k
Condi Daredevil: (Snowcrows)
Dagger auto: 14.7k
Pistol Auto: 10.4k
Power Daredevil:
Sword Auto: 23.6k
Dagger Auto: 22.7k
Pistol Auto :14.9k
Staff Auto: 24.6k
Power Deadeye: (Snowcrows)
Rifle Auto (not marked):  11.7k
Kneeling Rifle Auto (not marked: 19.2k
 

Anet nerfed Rot Wallow between now and the beta.  Originally it did more damage than the scepter auto, but now it does far less unless you take Strength in Shadows.  I was surprised that Dagger's dual attack with scepter did more DPS than the pistol, largely due to the faster animation time.  Specter is another build that relies heavily on allies to bounce skills off of, not doing a particularly large amount of damage by itself.  The Shroud can be maintained permanently through siphon alone, though it doesn't really do much damage.  Either way, Daredevil still has some of the highest auto DPS in the game.  It isn't as brain-dead now that sustain traits are nerfed, but camping Sword + Pistol and using Black Powder or Pistol Whip to stay alive is still an effective tactic to this day.  

 

ENGINEER

Mechanist: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PegAk6lxy0YvMXWMO2LvxPA-zRIYR0wXG1mAVUA2eACoHA-e
Mace Auto: 20.5k
Mace Auto (Condi): 11.8k, sustains 19 confusion stacks
PIstol Auto:11.2k
Elixir Gun Auto: 8.5k
Holosmith (Snowcrows)
Sword Auto 18.4k

Holo Mode Auto: 26k while in Forge
Scrapper (Snowcrows DPS)
Hammer Auto: 19.9k
Rifle Auto: 14.5k
Toolkit Auto: 16.2k
Bomb Auto 22k
Grenade Auto 16.2k
Flamethrower Auto (power): 17.3k
 

I used Elementalist Runes for the condition build.  There's a reason why I used Scrapper to find the damage for most weapons and kits, and this is because Scrapper is the only specialization with simple but innate buffs that work for all weapons.  Camping the Bomb Kit remains an effective way to low maintenance but wide-area damage.  Holosmith is a bit risky but has pretty high damage output overall.  Again, what surprised me was how hard the Mace hit on Mechanist.  I was expecting far less, assuming that Anet wanted us to go into Grievers or some new set to get its full damage output.  The condi DPS will probably be higher in practice, since it is based heavily on confusion.

There's a big hole in this data here, and that is how hard the Mech itself hits.  I did all of those tests with the Mech stowed, because I encountered a problem:  The boons from the raid training area don't get applied to the Mech, even with the Shift Signet.  The guy never gets buffed up, so I can't figure out how much damage the Mech will do in raid scenarios.  I can only see how much damage it does by itself while alone in the overworld, which is about 5-7k depending on the build.  If the mech is whipped out and buffed somehow, I'd expect the mace auto to be anywhere from 27k to 30k, making it potentially the best auto attack strat in the game.

 

GUARDIAN

Willbender: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PWgAwylVwQYqsJWLO0L+RTA-zRIYR0wXG1mAVUA2eACoHA-e
Sword Auto: 12.3k
Sword Auto + Virtue of Justice Spam: 15.4k
Dragonhunter: (snowcrows build)
Sword Auto: 13.5k
Greatsword Auto: 14.1k
Mace Auto: 12.2k
Hammer Auto: 16.3k
Scepter Auto: 10.2k
Longbow Auto: 9.5k
Condition Firebrand (Snowcrows DPS build)
Axe Auto:19.5k 

 

Not much has changed with the Guardian, since its new toy is just an off-hand weapon.  It gets a lot of its DPS from symbols, utilities, and buffs.  I didn't expect Condi FB to hit as hard as it does.  Actually, I don't know what to expect.  I'm not particularly knowledgeable on Willbender's Mechanics, so I don't know if there's an optimal way to stagger the flame attacks aside from the very basic stuff I've done.  

 

REVENANT

Vindicator: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAExzlZSMsTyjlSdMUijpSksSigJ/lbsD-zRIYRUzXG1mCVUB2eACoHA-e
Greatsword Auto: 17.3k
Greatsword + Bunny Hop: 22k
Sword Auto:16.1k
Renegade Power: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmgAxzlQMEyjQdEijQkEigJ3l7TF-zRIYREzXG1GCVEB2eACoHA-e
Sword Auto: 17k
Sword + Shiro Toggles 24k
Staff Auto: 15k
Hammer Auto: 11.6k
Shortbow Auto (Power): 13.2k
Renegade Condition (snowcrows build):
Mace Auto: 12.5k 
Mace Auto w/ Embrace Darkness: 16.8k
Shortbow Auto (condi):13.2k
Herald (Power): http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmgAxzlQMEyjQdEijQkEigJ/lb7G-zRIYREzXG1GCVEB2eACoHA-e
Sword Auto: 16.4k
Sword Auto + Shiro: 25.6k
 

Ah yes, the good ole' auto attack rev.  Flip on a toggle, and auto attack with more DPS than other professions fluttering about in the wind.  Though technically Herald hits harder with it, I'd recommend Renegade anyway due to it being more versatile in both overworld and group PVE scenarios.  It is with great irony that the Shortbow somehow manages to do the same DPS whether on a power build or a condition build.  It is a true hybrid weapon.  These builds will also come into question, because I don't actually know anymore which traits do more damage from the Devastation line.

Much like Willbender, there isn't much to be said about the Vindicator.  It drops down from above like a specter in the night, or like my cat that one time that made me really angry.  Playing Vind won't be as low maintenance as the other, for it garners no benefit to have toggles on while sky-diving.  

 

WARRIOR

Bladesworn:  http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKgAcqllyQYTMKWJO+WWxVA-zRIYR0wXG1mAVUA2eACoHA-e
Gunsaber Auto: 13.6k

Power Berserker: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKgAcelRwQYTMKWJO+WWtKA-zRIYR0wXG1mAVUA2eACoHA-e
Axe Auto: 16.1k
Mace Auto: 11.6k
Hammer Auto: 12.4k
Greatsword Auto 13.2k
Rifle Auto: 8.2k

Condition Berserker (Snowcrows Build)
Sword (Condi): 14.4k
Longbow (Condi) 9k
Power Spellbreaker:  http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKgAgilZwSYTMKWJO+WWveA-zRIYR0wXG1mAVUA2eACoHA-e
Dagger Auto: 15.1k

 

Warrior is my least played profession that I actually play.  To be honest, I haven't wrapped my head around how the Bladesworn is supposed to work, nor the best way to play it.  All I know is that the golem is nearly dead once the flow meter is full.  I just improvised the build for Bladesworn.  The auto attack damage for the Gunsaber is low, however a cursory look of the weapon shows that most of it's DPS lies within the 2-5 skills.  With how basic the warrior is in their skills, I expect the auto attack damage to be a lot higher than it turned out to be.  On a completely unrelated note, I've actually seen the anime referenced in the trait tooltip (Gun X Sword), and it is O.K. until it suddenly gets really good in the middle.

 

The best way that someone could help expand this thread is by putting up the ranger numbers.  Auto attack DPS, very simple rotations, and a database of how much each pet does.  EDIT: I have no idea why the formatting is weird at certain parts.  

 

EDIT AGAIN:  Some updated numbers for a few auto attacks that were changed recently:

 

Condi Virtuoso Dagger: 18.1k

Condi Specter Scepter: 13.5k

Edited March 17, 2022 by Blood Red Arachnid.2493

[Styopa.2538]

Surprised nobody has commented, this is really useful.  Thank you for all the hard work!

[Tiamat.8254]

I also missed this some how. Thank you!  

[Serephen.3420]

This shows a lot actually, what one can simply achieve with the appropriate gear and build with little effort. 

[Zenith.7301]

If anything, Virtuoso dagger is either overtuned or mainhand sword for mesmer is undertuned considering that as a melee weapon with a stationary skill it does about the same DPS (in reality, less due to the real encounters where you're forced off encounters).

 

What's more, mesmer mainhand sword DPS is all backloaded into the 3rd chain of the autoattacks, which is easily interrupted, whereas dagger does not run this problem.

 

Catalyst seems about right, which imo is not a good thing. It means the elementalist always wants to be cycling elements ASAP instead of swapping attunements according to the needed utility as most of the damage is concentrated in a few key skills, most in the fire attunement, with air #2 and earth #2 following suit and water far behind with #2.

 

Catalyst would really benefit from a 1 sec icd between reactivating the orb (hammer #3) and adding 5 seconds to the orb duration. Its golem rotation is fluid, but any encounter/CC disruption forces you to cycle to the next element without casting your attunement skills as you stand to lose the orb buff.

Edited April 28, 2022 by Zenith.7301

[LadyKitty.6120]

From what Kitty's tested earlier, those numbers seem a bit low though then again, you probably didn't optimize for auto-attacks. Optimized for auto-attacks, most of them do 1-2k more and also sword DE is in fact stronger that sword and staff DDs according to Kitty's testing. But that's just her nitpicks.

[The Boz.2038]

Elementalist

12 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

would really benefit from a

literal doubling of the damage on every single non-conjure #1 skill.

[Dadnir.5038]

12 hours ago, LadyKitty.6120 said:

From what Kitty's tested earlier, those numbers seem a bit low though then again, you probably didn't optimize for auto-attacks. Optimized for auto-attacks, most of them do 1-2k more and also sword DE is in fact stronger that sword and staff DDs according to Kitty's testing. But that's just her nitpicks.

I find that the builds he use tend to lack precision/critical chance which is most likely why the numbers are like this. The nice thing is that it make the build with crit chance stand out (Like the reaper/necromancer for example as the profession have some natural ease to cap crit chance)

[Antycypator.9874]

14 hours ago, Zenith.7301 said:

If anything, Virtuoso dagger is either overtuned

Buffs are overtuned. Try killing stuff using only AA (condi virtuosso) while playing solo.

[Tails.9372]

On 3/1/2022 at 12:28 PM, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

This is because this information is seldom documented, and yet is useful for helping people make builds and test them out.

Issue is that these are just golem numbers which leave out a lot of context and barely reflect on practical performance at all. The vast majority of the time these skills won't even reach 1/4 of the numbers listed above while others will at least be able to hold up a somewhat decent performance. Which skills that are the list doesn't tell. Also some classes are missing some weapon types (like SB on thief).

On 3/1/2022 at 12:28 PM, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

What surprised me is how hard Harbinger murders everything with it's shroud.  I didn't expect it to be that high.  

How is that surprising, like at all? Even just ignoring the base numbers of the skill necro has a multitude of traits to boost shroud skills which is something most other classes don't have much of an equivalent for "class mechanic affecting "weapon skills"" to build around with (the closest thing would probably be dual skills on thief but that mechanic is generally to underdeveloped to really compete and doesn't even affect the AAs at all).

Edited April 29, 2022 by Tails.9372

[taara.3217]

On 4/26/2022 at 11:24 PM, Styopa.2538 said:

Surprised nobody has commented, this is really useful.  Thank you for all the hard work!

I can comment: a great deal of work is done. Thanks to author - like from me.

But I don't see any practical use of all this info )

Edited April 29, 2022 by taara.3217

[ZDragon.3046]

9 hours ago, Antycypator.9874 said:

Buffs are overtuned. Try killing stuff using only AA (condi virtuosso) while playing solo.

realistic numbers = more or less cut everything in half and thats what you really got  its pretty easy to reach 13-15k button smashing with proper gear if you just have quickness uptime without even having max might stacks you would be surprised

but overall some of the numbers here are not exactly off what what you could do with just auto attacking with the proper gear on a raid setup where you are given all boons. 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Looks like it is time to answer some question.

On 4/28/2022 at 1:03 PM, LadyKitty.6120 said:

From what Kitty's tested earlier, those numbers seem a bit low though then again, you probably didn't optimize for auto-attacks. Optimized for auto-attacks, most of them do 1-2k more and also sword DE is in fact stronger that sword and staff DDs according to Kitty's testing. But that's just her nitpicks.

The difference is probably because I didn't use food or utility buffs doing these numbers.  All of these tests were done before a lot of the meta builds had truly settled, so there's probably been some slight changes between then and now.  When it comes to thief, it is another profession that has a lot of shifting damage buffs.  I went with Daredevil because it was lower maintenance, but a Deadeye that marks the target (10% buff) with all of the boons can get total higher damage modifier than a non-dodging Daredevil.

22 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I find that the builds he use tend to lack precision/critical chance which is most likely why the numbers are like this. The nice thing is that it make the build with crit chance stand out (Like the reaper/necromancer for example as the profession have some natural ease to cap crit chance)

I had to improvise a lot of the condi builds.  Most of the builds I used were copy/pasted from snowcrows.  There's probably more efficient stat distributions when working under the assumption that spotter/frost/banners won't be present.  Likewise, when the June update comes around to remove the unique buffs of spirits and banners, I might have to do a lot of these tests again.  I'll wait until the raid meta settles so I can adjust all of the gear pieces.

As to whether I'll use food in future tests, the answer is... probably.  I'm doing better financially right now, so I can afford to blow 3 ascended meals per toon when I do these tests.  Some of the gold costs for the utilities can get very expensive.  Also of note is I'll have to adjust the condition and boon load for the future.  Group resolution has become much more common, and also the distribution of conditions on enemies is changing up as well.

13 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

Also some classes are missing some weapon types (like SB on thief).

Ah yes, the woes of a deteriorating mind.  I can't keep track of a lot of things, but I went and did the Shortbow test for you.

Thief:

Shortbow: 12.8k

Also a bit to note is that I received a mail from Infusion that was... I swear 20 pages long.  But within that mail he gave me the numbers for ranger.  Not sure why it wasn't posted here directly:

Quote

 

Anyway with your parameters here are my initial findings while flanking and all runs result in a 1 million HP golem kill :
POWER
* 18x +5 power infusions, meta skirmishing Soulbeast (Oppressive superiority, two-handed training , sharpened edges) full legendary
* Signet of the wild is the only relevant passive utility
Force+Impact sigils
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAEhflZwuYgsNmJWqX7P/Ss7bA-zRIYRUzXIdGC1mAVUB2eSCj9wbJizI-e
20.2K without food or utility on Greatsword
This means 21K or so at a minimum just from food since you get +70 ferocity = +4.67% crit

sword+axe , skirmishing power soulbeast (not marksmanship since not in fractals, Oppressive superiority , natural healing , sharpened edges)
19K without utility or food

Meta power soulbeast dagger+axe (Oppressive superiority , natural healing , sharpened edges)
Force+impact since hydromancy doesn't trigger without weaponswap
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAMhflZwuYgsNmJWqX/P/JsD-zRIYRUzXG1mCVUB2eSCj9wD-e
17.5K without utility or food

With axe+axe similar to fast farming openworld build , see above dagger+axe
15.1K without utility or food, flanking standing more or less in the hitbox

Untamed, unleashed ranger state
Skirmishing + beastmastery , untamed 1-1-3 (same as soulbeast but with untamed)
14.4K , 14.5K second run , 14.5K third run , 14.8K 100% crit run greatsword , pet on avoid
14.1K , 14.1K second run , 14.2K third run hammer  (pet on avoid as well)
* Note Ferocious Symbiosis does not trigger if pet is on avoid

18.1K with GS + Iboga (no boons applied to pet)

17.1K with GS + jacaranda (no boons applied to pet)

17.5K with hammer + Iboga (no boons applied to pet)

Skirmishing + beastmastery , untamed 1-1-3 (same as soulbeast but with untamed)
13.3K , 2nd run 13.5K sword+axe , pet on avoid
* Note Ferocious Symbiosis does not trigger if pet is on avoid
15.8K sword+axe with jacaranda (this has good AOE by the way and since you don't merge it doesn't matter much, no externally applied boons to pet)

Skirmishing+marksmanship (3-2-1), Untamed 1-1-3
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POQAIlZwUZXsNGKO2K1xaA-zRIYRUwXG1mAVUA2eQCjNwD-e
15.8K for two different runs with hammer (pet on avoid)

18.8K with hammer + Iboga (no boons on pet)

18.5K  with hammer + EOD white tiger  (no boons on pet)

18.1K with hammer + EOD siege turtle (no boons on pet)

18.1K with hammer + EOD wallow (no boons on pet)

18K with hammer  + EOD Phoenix (no boons on pet)

17.9K with hammer + smokescale (no boons on pet)

17.9K with hammer + rock gazelle (no boons on pet)

17.9K with hammer + river drake because people use this in PVP (no boons on pet)

17.7K with hammer + brown bear for memes (no boons on pet)

15.8K greatsword (pet on avoid)

18.8K Greatsword + Iboga (no boons on pet) , did not test further since no greatsword traits due to not using beastmastery (which has +10% on greatsword damage)

16K sword+axe (pet on avoid)

19.1K sword+axe offhand + Iboga (no boons on pet) , did not test further since no axe ferocity traits due to not using beastmastery

---

Power ranger summary: 21K DPS or so is something achievable

Other notes: There may be sometimes a bug with spotter on untamed sometimes while the pet is applying Ferocious Symbiosis

 

Quote

 

Condi soulbeast shortbow
* I didn't bother slotting all condi infusions from my PUG meta fractal characters and WVW doesn't use condition damage but I did use pinpoint distribution so the difference should be minimized
* No food/utility which means bleeding is not at 100% duration
* bursting+earth sigils , krait runes, full viper's
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAUh/lZwmYfMJmJWaP3P3Sk6YA-zRJYmRN/YEPF6UB+OIBxe41kizKA-e
14.8K shortbow, refined toxins trait ... effectively no difference from 2020
14.6K shortbow

13.1K dagger (a small increase due to Furious Strength changes)

Condi untamed  (lol)
Not sure what the optimal setup is , I've seen CnD do 30K full benchmark before EOD launch
Test is with untamed 3-3-3 instead of soulbeast
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAUVjZYT2Hs0e2j/lI1xA-zRJYmRF/YEPF6UB+OIBxe4B-e

14.1K shortbow, pet on avoid, Unleash ranger state
14K shortbow (refined toxins), pet on avoid , Unleash ranger state
13.8K shortbow , pet on avoid, Unleash pet state
13.4K shortbow , pet on avoid  , Unleash pet state

16.1K (refined toxins) with a second run 15.8K , Iboga, Unleash ranger state

15.3K shortbow (refined toxins), Bristleback, Unleash ranger state

15.2K shortbow (Refined toxins) , Iboga , Unleash pet state

15.1K shortbow (ambidexterity), Bristleback, Unleash ranger state

15K shortbow (ambidexterity) , Iboga, Unleash pet state

14.7K shortbow (ambidexterity) , Bristleback, Unleash pet state

14.2K shortbow (ambidexterity) , EOD wallow, Unleash pet state

----
Summary

Needless to say, condi is not that good for rangers if you want to be auto-ing. Maybe 2 spam with poison volley in between autos but as that takes more effort to reproduce reliably without using macros I didn't test it.

Hope that helps.

 

 

11 hours ago, taara.3217 said:

I can comment: a great deal of work is done. Thanks to author - like from me.

But I don't see any practical use of all this info )

That's the strange thing about information:  you won't always know how to use it at first.  Personally I've found this information useful for making suggestions (such as the catalyst auto buffs we recently received).  It's also a good indicator for what weapons and builds to recommend to new players who don't know their way around the keyboard yet.  I've also done this to make recommendations for builds with people who have Carpal Tunnel, as it is a good way to figure out how to maximize damage while minimizing effort.

I'll have to upload the new catalyst numbers later, as my only elementalist currently has a food buff on her.

 

EDIT:

CATALYST

Fire Hammer: 10.4k

Water Hammer: 13.4k

Wind Hammer: 10k

Earth Hammer:  15.2k

Edited April 30, 2022 by Blood Red Arachnid.2493

[Obtena.7952]

I love this information and it's useful for the reasons exactly mentioned. 

Also, it's a speculative hot take here but ... if Anet wanted to balance the threshold of game success around these 'low impact' builds (as people are labeling them) ... then it probably makes lots of sense to balance them around the DPS of the most likely to use skills; AA is that skill. 

Edited May 1, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Dadnir.5038]

Just to add a few points of developpement:

- How do you deal with confusion against the golem? Does it trigger the "action" damage or not?

- Conjured weapons AA could surprise people (especially LH and ES's AA), don't they deserve a bit of love in this thread?

- I think it's a bit unfair to only consider condi damage for a spec like harbinger in the context of "only using AA". This is also true for Specter.

- You can also add minions for the necromancer to the AA since they are basically low maintenance AI (after all, they do auto attack as well).

 

[The Boz.2038]

5 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I think it's a bit unfair to only consider condi damage for a spec like harbinger in the context of "only using AA"

I don't think the power damage one breaks 9k for power Harb. It felt pitiful when I played it.

[Dadnir.5038]

1 hour ago, The Boz.2038 said:

I don't think the power damage one breaks 9k for power Harb. It felt pitiful when I played it.

That's the point of the thread.

You think elementalist think dagger air AA do 16k+ dps? You think engineers think that rifle auto do 14k dps? Would anyone believe that warrior's mace do 11k with it's AA? ... etc. I'm pretty sure that most would believe that you can only achieve half of that with those weapons AA.

 

[ZDragon.3046]

3 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

I don't think the power damage one breaks 9k for power Harb. It felt pitiful when I played it.

nope i can contest that you can get at least 12-14k and if you push a few extra buttons (mostly skill 2) you can get up to like 19k i think when i was last messing with it 

[The Boz.2038]

2 hours ago, ZDragon.3046 said:

nope i can contest that you can get at least 12-14k and if you push a few extra buttons (mostly skill 2) you can get up to like 19k i think when i was last messing with it 

Unexpected. Good to know.

 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

8 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Just to add a few points of developpement:

- How do you deal with confusion against the golem? Does it trigger the "action" damage or not?

- Conjured weapons AA could surprise people (especially LH and ES's AA), don't they deserve a bit of love in this thread?

- I think it's a bit unfair to only consider condi damage for a spec like harbinger in the context of "only using AA". This is also true for Specter.

- You can also add minions for the necromancer to the AA since they are basically low maintenance AI (after all, they do auto attack as well).

 

Like all benchmarks, confusion is a blind spot.  It's damage output is highly variable on enemy behavior.  Because of this, whenever confusions arises (such as Mechanist Mace), the only thing we can do is say that confusion will inflict more damage than is displayed.  There's a reddit post somewhere that lists the attack speed of all raid bosses.  I don't know where it is, since I saw it on old Discord channels, but it is out there somewhere.

There's going to be some blind spots in a lot of these, for a couple of reasons.  I'm not just testing the weapons, as much as I am testing the common builds.  The reason why I don't have the damage of something like Power Specter or Power Harbinger is because... there was no build on snowcrows for them.  Also, I tend to test weapons and skills where they are at their strongest.  Condi weapons with condi, power with power, and core weapons on the e-spec with the highest simple modifiers.  I only checked how much damage is done on both versions if I know that it is a hybrid weapon that does both (thief, ele, revenant).  To check both for everything would double my workload, and it already took me days to get this.  Finally, sometimes I just do not have the right equipment.

This is why I recommend other people to post up there numbers.  These auto tests take awhile when done in the hundreds, but anyone who has the build can do them.  When it comes to condition damage, I mentioned in the mesmer evaluation that most of their DPS doesn't come from auto attacks, but other weapons kills and their utilities.  Nonetheless, however "unfair" it may seem, the auto attack is what the character defaults to while not using other skills, so it is still important to get a baseline for that.

 

Specter

Power Shroud: 16.7k 

 

Weaver (Fire/Air attuned, power build)

Fiery Greatsword:12.4k

Lightning Hammer: 16.5k

Flame Axe: 9.9k

Frost Bow: 4.3k4

Earth Shield: 14k

 

Necromancer Minions (Blood Fiend, Shadow Fiend, Bone Fiend, Bone Minions, Golem): 1.5k

Harbinger build (https://snowcrows.com/builds/necromancer/reaper/power-reaper but with Harbinger instead of Reaper and no minions)

Dagger Auto: 14.5k

Shroud Auto: 21.8k

Shroud auto + Shroud 2: 24.3k

Condi Harbinger (Snowcrows build)

Shroud Auto: 25.6k (before dropping)

 

 

[ZDragon.3046]

9 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Unexpected. Good to know.

 

With proper gear you can maybe even get more im not totally infused up or anything like that but i do think power harb still needs love xD the grand master trait just offering a raw power increase and mildly aoe tickle is probably the problem honestly.  If they swap that for ferocity and a actually damaging aoe or perhaps they make it modify the shroud skills to have no condi but much better power scaling it would be great.

[Gartner Kinderboom.5019]

Love to see this updated in a spreadsheet if you had the interest 🙂

 

[Buran.3796]

  Very useful, thanx for the effort 🙂

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

7 hours ago, Gartner Kinderboom.5019 said:

Love to see this updated in a spreadsheet if you had the interest 🙂

 

There's a reddit thread here that has been going over more recent numbers.  I've been hesitant to do all these tests, because there's been big balance swings every few months and very little is remaining the same.  I'm not sure when the big revisions are finally going to come to end.