DO NOT nerf Dragon's End meta.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

Just now, BloodRavenz.6084 said:

They are playing an MMO.

 

This is not a mobile game you play on your cell phone, this isn't a single player game you can play on a PS4.

 

I do not think it's out of line to expect people who are playing MMO to do things that nearly every MMO Players do.

Great the game is terrible at telling you what build and rotations you should be using for max dps.  Please provide me a single MMO that does. 

 

In which MMO say , you must do max dps so other respect you ?

[BloodRavenz.6084]

1 minute ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Yeah yeyah yeh, hold that thought

Its not people in youtube did that , and used no-EoD -raid specs 😛

 

EOD raid specs? uhh no in fact we politely ask our group to not use some of them.  (the Engi EOD spec actually really sucks for the Final battle)   I myself usually play on my pre EOD Condi Firebrand.    We do get some of the newer ones, Vindicator and Willbender come to mind but it doesn't dominate the group nor do we even try to tell players what build to play in any of the runs the group i'm in.

 

oh, and not sure what you mean by youtube, none of us do live streams there if thats what you mean. 

[BloodRavenz.6084]

1 minute ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

In which MMO say , you must do max dps so other respect you ?

 

*checks*  uhhh most of them with any sort of Raid, Dungeon, or end game content expect you to be at least slightly competent at playing your class and doing a respectable amount of damage if your doing a dps role

 

Again...please show me one that the player base is just fine for a player who's expected to do damage....is respected for not doing a good job at it

 

 

[Erise.5614]

2 minutes ago, BloodRavenz.6084 said:

They are playing an MMO.

 

This is not a mobile game you play on your cell phone, this isn't a single player game you can play on a PS4.

 

I do not think it's out of line to expect people who are playing MMO to do things that nearly every MMO Players do.

Great the game is terrible at telling you what build and rotations you should be using for max dps.  Please provide me a single MMO that does. 

 

What's even your point?

Are you trying to tell us that the vast majority of players in meta events are just deliberately terrible beyond belief and rather run DE 10+ times, wasting 20+ hours than trying once? Like what?!?

Clearly something isn't going as well as in other MMOs when we have one of the largest discrepancies between good vs inexperienced players to the point of significant exclusion and avoidance. 

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

Just now, BloodRavenz.6084 said:

 

EOD raid specs? uhh no in fact we politely ask our group to not use some of them.  (the Engi EOD spec actually really sucks for the Final battle)   I myself usually play on my pre EOD Condi Firebrand.    We do get some of the newer ones, Vindicator and Willbender come to mind but it doesn't dominate the group nor do we even try to tell players what build to play in any of the runs the group i'm in.

 

oh, and not sure what you mean by youtube, none of us do live streams there if thats what you mean. 

Common , which youtubers , where telling people to use Raid -non-EoD specs

In game the first 2 weeks the commander where activly telling the people no green -skipp tail

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

Just now, BloodRavenz.6084 said:

 

*checks*  uhhh most of them with any sort of Raid, Dungeon, or end game content expect you to be at least slightly competent at playing your class and doing a respectable amount of damage if your doing a dps role

 

Again...please show me one that the player base is just fine for a player who's expected to do damage....is respected for not doing a good job at it

 

 

Which game , tell you you must perfect you dps raotation , and not simpy do the most damaging spells while not in cd ?

[BloodRavenz.6084]

2 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Common , which youtubers , where telling people to use Raid -non-EoD specs

In game the first 2 weeks the commander where activly telling the people no green -skipp tail

 

no idea, i've never been on map when a person running the meta tried to tell the group to do any of those things

the only time skipping tail is even done is if the boss is like 1 or 2% from going to the next phase and you just push through..other then that you always switch to kill the tail.

 

I'd have to assume those youtubers or commanders your referencing did not have a very successful time clearing the event.

[BloodRavenz.6084]

2 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Which game , tell you you must perfect you dps raotation , and not simpy do the most damaging spells while not in cd ?

 

none do, your usually expected to figure it out by you know....being in a guild that works to help each other, or and stay with me here....opening google and doing a search to reach a site that is created to help players in whatever MMO you want to look up info for.

 

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

3 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Common , which youtubers , where telling people to use Raid -non-EoD specs

In game the first 2 weeks the commander where activly telling the people no green -skipp tail

Because before the changes skipping greens was generally faster than doing them, alternatively we used the Jade Bot Waypoint to get back to the top immediately.
We never skipped the tail, whenever the tail is up she takes ~70% less damage. You only "skip" it when she's very close to phasing.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

Just now, BloodRavenz.6084 said:

 

no idea, i've never been on map when a person running the meta tried to tell the group to do any of those things

the only time skipping tail is even done is if the boss is like 1 or 2% from going to the next phase and you just push through..other then that you always switch to kill the tail.

 

I'd have to assume those youtubers or commanders your referencing did not have a very successful time clearing the event.

:PPP

You never been to that kind of map

Maybe the huge amount of threads telling the company that a single person was doing wisp and wasting 2 min from the Raid , was my imagination , and the company reduced to 75 sec :PPP

[BloodRavenz.6084]

4 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

:PPP

You never been to that kind of map

Maybe the huge amount of threads telling the company that a single person was doing wisp and wasting 2 min from the Raid , was my imagination , and the company reduced to 75 sec :PPP

 

no i guess i haven't been to a map that got that far that was skipping wisps like that.  

I've run the meta a lot and can say that the two times you have to do wisps were never an issue outside of once in a while a circle gets missed and even then...i'd never say that was a make or break part of the fight. 

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2022 by BloodRavenz.6084

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

Just now, BloodRavenz.6084 said:

 

no i guess i haven't been to a map that got that far that was skipping wisps like that.  

I've run the meta a lot and can say that the two times you have to do wisps were never an issue outside of once in a while a circle gets missed and even then...i'd never say that was a make or break part of the fight. 

 

 

 

Again people used the boss as a piniata , avoiding te wisp and other mechanics and telling the company in the Reddit about 1 people messing and wasting 2 min .

Again if we need of those mentalities + do max damage , we know where we can ask:P

Until that time, don't intefere ,  when people ask for nerf of the boss HP and not the 1-shot mechanics

Edited March 25, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Astralporing.1957]

40 minutes ago, BloodRavenz.6084 said:

Great the game is terrible at telling you what build and rotations you should be using for max dps.  Please provide me a single MMO that does.

Notice, how i have already mentioned that the gaps in GW2 are around the biggest among MMORPGs, to a large degree. But if you want examples, i will repeat again: FF XIV may not be hand-holding you as far as perfect rotation goes, but it makes it way easier how it generally should look like so finding out is not like trying to figure out a shell corporation's finance books.

Seriously, when on one hand you have a game where the difference between top and mid is around 1.5x and between top and very bottom around 3x, and on the other one where those differences are around 10x and ~40x respectively, you can already see that one game is doing something better than the other. And when you realize that the game with lower differences is the one that is far more focused towards instanced and endgame content, while the one with bigger gaps is the one with more casual audience, you should immediately realize, that the latter game is doing something very, very wrong.

[Erise.5614]

2 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Notice, how i have already mentioned that the gaps in GW2 are around the biggest among MMORPGs, to a large degree. But if you want examples, i will repeat again: FF XIV may not be hand-holding you as far as perfect rotation goes, but it makes it way easier how it generally should look like so finding out is not like trying to figure out a shell corporation's finance books.

Seriously, when on one hand you have a game where the difference between top and mid is around 1.5x and between top and very bottom around 3x, and on the other one where those differences are around 10x and ~40x respectively, you can already see that one game is doing something better than the other. And when you realize that the game with lower differences is the one that is far more focused towards instanced and endgame content, while the one with bigger gaps is the one with more casual audience, you should immediately realize, that the latter game is doing something very, very wrong.

I mean not necessarily wrong. But one can't be surprised about the high end content getting abandoned or difficulty spikes causing major problems. 

[Peterson.5172]

11 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Notice, how i have already mentioned that the gaps in GW2 are around the biggest among MMORPGs, to a large degree. But if you want examples, i will repeat again: FF XIV may not be hand-holding you as far as perfect rotation goes, but it makes it way easier how it generally should look like so finding out is not like trying to figure out a shell corporation's finance books.

Seriously, when on one hand you have a game where the difference between top and mid is around 1.5x and between top and very bottom around 3x, and on the other one where those differences are around 10x and ~40x respectively, you can already see that one game is doing something better than the other. And when you realize that the game with lower differences is the one that is far more focused towards instanced and endgame content, while the one with bigger gaps is the one with more casual audience, you should immediately realize, that the latter game is doing something very, very wrong.

i agree the game is terrible at teaching players how to be optimal

but, you can truly say gw2 can be played however a player wants (other than DE).

Do we really want to lose that "identity" by making every player start off in berserker/viper with the same traits and weapons? (assuming they dont get annoyed from dying every 10 seconds)

[Razadune.9260]

6 hours ago, BloodRavenz.6084 said:

Even casuals who have put in the time to get to level 80, and cleared the story to get to Dragons end in the first place should identified that they like the game enough to put in an effort and casually tried to look up ways to get better by now. 

 

This game is 10 years old, stop making excuses for people who don't want to try and expect the rest of you to carry them.

 

P.S. to anyone reading this, if you look at your dps meter and see that your doing a respectable amount of damage in these fights, and you even did part of the stuff above i mentioned players aren't doing...then I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT YOU 

         

I definitely do enough damage to hold my own in any content I'm doing.     

Most people are not looking at their dps meters, because very few players are even running a dps meter in this game in the first place and they shouldn't have to install one in order to participate. I'd guess that very few people playing this game have any mods installed of any kind at any given point in time.    

 

I don't personally think there's any reason at all that, if someone is able to make it to Dragon's End in the first place, they shouldn't be able to complete it. If they're there, they should be able to complete it, and have fun doing that.    

     

I don't care if I have to carry them to do it. I don't care if they don't spend hours and hours earning the gold to buy optimal gear, surf outside websites in order to learn what their optimal build is, or if they don't want to join groups or Discord in order to just play their game and have a good time.   

   

All I care about is that they're there, they're having fun, and they're treating others around them well while they do it. I want people to walk away from any activity in the game that they do and say they enjoyed it and thought it was cool. People wanting to do better because they're having fun is one thing, but people looking to fix themselves because part of the community insists they're broken is awful. For everyone involved. Maybe it's years of playing World of Warcraft that have jaded me on that, but that is not something anyone should be actively seeking to have happen in a game's community that they're part of.

     

What I don't want is for anyone, at any point in casually accessed content really, is to walk away from it wondering what they did wrong and why they aren't good enough to do this if they've enjoyed playing everywhere else. If that happens, it's usually because of community pressure and toxic behavior; but it can also be because of radical difficulty spikes making content seem inaccessible. For the game to be healthy, nobody should want either of those last two things to happen to other players. I definitely don't want difficult or demanding content taken away from people that want it... it just should be in a proper place where it's not creating those stresses on the players and community.   

      

And that's why people are talking about Dragon's End in the way that they are. It's not impossible, but it can feel like it. It's difficult and demanding enough that if it was Strike or Raid content, it'd probably be praised and it would be totally fine. If you were talking about your DPS expectations for other raiders, or strike team members, or your guild, that'd be totally fine.     

      

That's the difference here. People usually commander up and help lead people through content in this game because they want to facilitate a situation where other players are having fun and completing events well. Everyone benefits. With Dragon's End, the time tolerances are so tight that success becomes dependent on performance, and expectations are raised to the point where just having fun together isn't enough.    

    

That's all that the people here saying they want it fixed want: an event where everyone can come in and have fun together and everyone walks away happy, like almost the entirety of the rest of the game already offers when presented in this context. 

     

[cherrie.8907]

I do think the fight itself is not the biggest issue, it's the time required...

Maybe Anet should test it? Make it like the Marionette, private squad. Pre-nerf even. Grant the 10% bonus on entry to instance. See how people react.

Edited March 26, 2022 by cherrie.8907

[Link.6157]

My annoyance with this event comes from the way maps are handled in gw2. It's hard to get into one map with an entire squad from lfg. This goes for all meta's. There should be standard maps or instances where you can explore, do small events etc. But when you want to do meta event, you can enter or queue for a special meta map with an entire squad of prepared people. The basic/exploration map could still have the meta event, but alot easier and way less rewards, to make people learn the mechanics.

 

And imo it's still hard to see if i'm hitting this boss or not, not only the marker is weird but also the damage numbers are to high up on the screen, with big enemy's, usualy under your targets HP bar.

[hexadecimalwtf.4203]

I don't enjoy this map and I don't enjoy the meta. 17 attempts and no success yet. I just want to finish my specialization weapon which is locked behind the meta. Plus having to do the story again is boring. All of my friends who play finished the meta in a few attempts and don't bother it anymore so don't understand my frustration. Imagine wasting your entire days play time on an event 17 times and getting nothing from it.

 

I even took a break from it for a while waiting for the nerfs. Now I was reading people are succeeding more than failing but that doesn't seem to be true. How are so many people still wiping to the initial attack?

[Kate.3679]

1 hour ago, hexadecimalwtf.4203 said:

I don't enjoy this map and I don't enjoy the meta. 17 attempts and no success yet. I just want to finish my specialization weapon which is locked behind the meta. Plus having to do the story again is boring. All of my friends who play finished the meta in a few attempts and don't bother it anymore so don't understand my frustration. Imagine wasting your entire days play time on an event 17 times and getting nothing from it.

 

I even took a break from it for a while waiting for the nerfs. Now I was reading people are succeeding more than failing but that doesn't seem to be true. How are so many people still wiping to the initial attack?

 

I've succeeded on the meta 10 times in a row now. If you look for squads opening up ~70 minutes before the meta starts (when all the current metas are ending) you'll have a better chance of finding a squad that succeeds. You just need to get on the map and you can afk/do events until the meta starts. This is a squad I joined at around 3:50 pm EST today https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1438731549. Pretty smooth clear with no real breakbars.

 

[Veridiano.8659]

Yeah, don't nerf it. Just don't spam enemies by hundreds of thousands. It's about the dificult, it's about the graphics driver. My PC it's gonna blow with so many creatures going up and down. 

[Cuks.8241]

On 3/26/2022 at 12:15 AM, Astralporing.1957 said:

Notice, how i have already mentioned that the gaps in GW2 are around the biggest among MMORPGs, to a large degree. But if you want examples, i will repeat again: FF XIV may not be hand-holding you as far as perfect rotation goes, but it makes it way easier how it generally should look like so finding out is not like trying to figure out a shell corporation's finance books.

When I still raided in wow (woltk) the difference was about the same. I was leading pug raid runs and we did dps checks before start to see who can cut it. And keep in mind first you actually had to spent a lot of time to get high enough ilvl gear to pass the first check.

But I think wow changed a lot after that. Streamlined the stats, removed the old complex talent trees. But yeah that actually made it boring to me.

The thing is one of the ways to lessen the gap in knowledge is to introduce higher difficulty in open world. Yeah its a collision of worlds but now players that never opened lfg before get in contact with the group compositions, lingo and after all players that play in such content and are actually active. Discord links are shared and open for anyone. I havent seen players being turned down on unreasonable requirements like KP. It basically comes down to do the prep and maybe join discord (mostly optional).

I loved marionette. The private version. I did it with lfg groups that had the most simple requirements like type a word in chat, enter instance when comm says so and not before or after. Guaranteed success. This event is about the same. It doesnt require raid builds, it doesnt require anything beyond do the prep, read the chat. And if you have squad of people that are able to do that you will suceed because within that pool you find enough people to carry through the event.

Edited March 28, 2022 by Cuks.8241

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Commanders running the meta just need to get better. Each success I've had has been because of good explanations/directions from commanders.

If you join a squad and the tag does break people into subgroups, you're going to have a bad time.

Edit: Thread might be locked, but you confused people really need to start finding better tags.

Edited September 30, 2022 by Lan Deathrider.5910