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DO NOT nerf Dragon's End meta.


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8 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Your commander failed to include (or possibly notice) that successfully completing the Green Circle phase grants players a damage boost.
 

 

And if a single person fails/trolls it costs 2 min each time.so that damage boost is meaningless. I personally haven't seen it succeed a single time.

Wisp phase is badly designed, it far too troll friendly for open world map.

Edited by Necrosian.1359
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2 minutes ago, Deihnyx.6318 said:

The inherent problem of open world meta is that you don't pick who you play with.
So it needs to be built with the assumption that 10-15% of the players are gonna screw up, or not be useful at all.

It doesn't have to be brainless, don't have to remove any mechanics. but it cannot be -too- challenging.

Challenge is for 5 or 10-man content, where you get to pick your team.

 

Problem is a good number of players are experiencing this meta for the first time.

Much as i've said in the past with raids etc there is a big difference between reading and being told how to do something and actually doing it yourself.
Hands on experience is and always will be king in this situation.

It also doesn't help that players are being told to ignore certain mechanics either, especially one that provides a damage increase upon completion.

Even though I agree this boss is a health sponge it certainly isn't something so high on the challenge scale that it can only be beaten by super organised groups running top tier DPS builds.

People need time to learn, just like they have with every other big world boss in this game.
And maps definitely need to stop telling people to skip the green circle phase and get people doing it instead.
Any damage bonus you can get in this fight is absolutely worth getting.

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4 minutes ago, Necrosian.1359 said:

 

And if a single person fails/trolls it costs 2 min each time.so that damage boost is meaningless. I personally haven't seen it succeed a single time.

Wisp phase is badly designed, it far too troll friendly for open world map.

If it's ignored you also lose time so either way you loose time.
I can't confirm personally but I hear that completing this phase actually saves time as well as gives players a damage buff.

So it's better off getting players doing it and getting that damage bonus rather than ignoring it.

I won't argue it's "badly designed" though it certainly could be better for sure and yes there is a lot of potential for people to screw up and troll.
But outright ignoring it is not how you beat this event nor should it be.

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7 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said:

People need time to learn, just like they have with every other big world boss in this game.


I mean there are bosses that are not instant win.
TQ is laughable today, but it was regularly failed at first. Because people were missing mechanics

Same with Triple Trouble or even Auric Basic, new Shatterer failed because of mechanics

Drakkar did and still fails for groups that don't do mechanics well, and it has a small DPS check.

 

This fight... I'm sorry, I don't think mechanics are the only problem. And even if it was, if you want your player base to learn a time commitment of over an hour (to reach 10% and then wait for meta) isn't really the best.

 

I definitely think it's a step up over DragonFall or DragonStorm, but it needs just a tiny bit of tuning.

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2 minutes ago, Deihnyx.6318 said:


I mean there are bosses that are not instant win.
TQ is laughable today, but it was regularly failed at first. Because people were missing mechanics

Same with Triple Trouble or even Auric Basic, new Shatterer failed because of mechanics

Drakkar did and still fails for groups that don't do mechanics well, and it has a small DPS check.

 

This fight... I'm sorry, I don't think mechanics are the only problem. And even if it was, if you want your player base to learn a time commitment of over an hour (to reach 10% and then wait for meta) isn't really the best.

 

I definitely think it's a step up over DragonFall or DragonStorm, but it needs just a tiny bit of tuning.

I absolutely agree with you regarding the amount of time you have to commit to participate, that is definitely something Anet need to address on this event for sure.

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14 minutes ago, Illumine Sparkler.6019 said:

I don’t think it should be nerfed, I think Anet have done it this way on purpose. They did say they don’t want people to get around mechanics after all. 10% damage from pre events plus 20% damage from going in the green circles I think is needed and has to be done. Just my opinion on it.

The "wisp phase" in its self isn't bad, whats bad about is how easily it's abusable by trolls or how a single inexperience player can ruin entire meta for everyone. A single player shouldn't have power over entire 2 hour long meta.

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On 3/1/2022 at 5:30 PM, Blackari.2051 said:

Please Anet for the love of whatever you worship, do not nerf this fight. Finaly there is a boss fight in open world where just spamming #1 is not enough.
Do not listen to cry babies just because finally they have to somewhat pay attention to what is happening. If you really have to do something maybe add an extra minute on timer to the boss fight but not too much...

It needs nerfed. Sorry but open world is NOT where it should be insanely hard and sweaty. thats why you have raids. thats why you have T4 CM Fracs. Thats why you have Strikes. Open world PvE is suppose to be for the Average player. Its not about "cry babies" (which is a total d**k move to say btw.) Its about fairness. its about its a VIDEO GAME.  In short its not all about YOU its about EVERYONE as a whole. the average player is going to have an insanely terrible experience with this meta. It needs nerfed. If it was a raid that'd be fine. a strike. sure. a T4 frac. Sure. but its not. Its an open world Meta.  To say not to nerf it is insanely selfish. This isnt dark souls. Its GW2. You need to learn the difference in your games my guy.

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1 hour ago, Illumine Sparkler.6019 said:

I don’t think it should be nerfed, I think Anet have done it this way on purpose. They did say they don’t want people to get around mechanics after all. 10% damage from pre events plus 20% damage from going in the green circles I think is needed and has to be done. Just my opinion on it.

1. It needs to be nerfed to accommodate to players who actually take fun in ruining the efforts of others.
And 2. In the end that difficulty just plays behind that goal of not going around mechanics as we have been closer to winning by going around it than trying to do it because of #1.

Yes, not all the fails are purely from Trolls, but unless people actually says it is because they are new, we cannot trust it. Beside mentioning they are new and attempting for the first time would help clear that suspicion. Which would lead to commanders explaining even more. And if we see those players going off with what we explain for over 15 minutes, well they are back at the case "Trolls".

Because of the Trolls, we cannot trust in other people to be what they are anymore, and that's kind of sad.
--------------
The event is not build with "Completion" in mind if that is the case.
And it penalize a lot.
Turtle Mount being unnaccessible, and making any exp. until the player finish the Turtle Mastery Line ABSOLUTELY WASTED.
And it also enrich the rich who can complete it with a perfect squad with more gold as the items for the Jade Core are rewarded from that event + legendary crafting materials.

The event is purely based with "Hardcorers" players in mind.
------------------
At this point, the Siege Turtle should just have been an hidden thing and not being promoted, because the truth is that the likehood of players to earn it is close to 1% only, because of the current state of the numbers.

-----------------

The Voices of the players who posted here, by now, is quite obvious.
The people who wants a nerf is in impressive majority here.

Edited by KurokouNekoki.7891
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37 minutes ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

Tbf only the wisp part should either be removed or reworked. As of right now it is way too punishing if it's a mistake. And if it's a troll then he just wasted your time. 

This is basically where I've settled on the matter. A hard meta was desperately needed, I love how the others are more complex than in the past. And this as the finale seems perfect. But yeah, green circle phase could use a fix. Just that though, pleeeeease only that Anet. The rest of the fight is perfect and even the DPS check is probably fine if you just fix the one phase so 1 player can't troll! Make a meta that people feel great about clearing, like they've achieved something and gotten better at the game. And no, that shouldn't just be strikes or raids. People can like Open-World huge battles AND difficult content. Even with the difficulties that may bring.

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While I personally don't want this meta to be nerfed I do expect them to do it and it will overall be for the better.

Furthermore: if they nerf it then the nerf is going to be mostly on A-Net and those who constantly lobby for the nerfs to low intensity builds (which A-Net seems to be receptive to) so remember: people, at least partly, brought this upon themselves.

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So after multiple pug tries I ended up doing a friends list run (friends of friends of friends) from raid and fractal community. Took us a while to get a squad of 45 in the same map, but we did it. We killed the meta using no greens strat , mesmer portal between tail and head, with organized groups alac + quickness and finished with 2 minutes to spare. 

For an open world meta it should not be that intense. If we did greens as intended I am pretty sure we would of cut it very close. Average squad DPS was 24.4k.

 

I would suspect the greens phase needs adjusted and maybe the tail. Its also flaky for the average player where the boss head or tail is visible but it can still be hit. This is something we had to be sure to explain in squad to maximize dps.

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6 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Problem is a good number of players are experiencing this meta for the first time.

Much as i've said in the past with raids etc there is a big difference between reading and being told how to do something and actually doing it yourself.
Hands on experience is and always will be king in this situation.

It also doesn't help that players are being told to ignore certain mechanics either, especially one that provides a damage increase upon completion.

Even though I agree this boss is a health sponge it certainly isn't something so high on the challenge scale that it can only be beaten by super organised groups running top tier DPS builds.

People need time to learn, just like they have with every other big world boss in this game.
And maps definitely need to stop telling people to skip the green circle phase and get people doing it instead.
Any damage bonus you can get in this fight is absolutely worth getting.

There is little to learn other than the DPS check.

 

And HOW are you make sure your map are filled with ppl who learn it? Each time you fail, next time you get a new team.

 

Other bosses have been nerfed, like TD didn't become doable for most of the ppl until the scaling was removed for DPS.

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I think you miss the point people are making. It's not that it's to hard. It's they advertised everyone could get a turtle mount. Which is not the case, it will only be the most skilled that get it. So they either need to address this by making it easier for the unskilled or have the egg drop a different way. But it's false advertising.

 

I'm ok with it this way & enjoy a challenge, but this is more for people who are geared. Most open worlder's are not geared for this & it will be tough to get a full map of experienced geared people at the same time as well, people will get screwed even if your good by not a full map of good people, so your point is not valid. Fractals or raids are smaller & designed for that, not this. Very few will complete this & the maps are already empty, everyone is giving up, so it's going to turn into an empty map & what about people who bought this for the massively advertised turtles? .

 

Open world has always been casual, this was the vision since beta, which is why they created harder content for those of us that want it, but locking a mount behind this is wrong. If they wanted it this hard, they should have put it behind a raid or fractal. Which would have cause outcry as well. But ya people have a right to be upset because of advertisement. Like to see you go buy something & have that store tell you you're getting less than advertised, you would complain too.

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7 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

If it's ignored you also lose time so either way you loose time.
I can't confirm personally but I hear that completing this phase actually saves time as well as gives players a damage buff.

So it's better off getting players doing it and getting that damage bonus rather than ignoring it.

I won't argue it's "badly designed" though it certainly could be better for sure and yes there is a lot of potential for people to screw up and troll.
But outright ignoring it is not how you beat this event nor should it be.

Yes, you lose time if it's ignored.  And optimally it's better to successfully do this phase.   Unfortunately I have NEVER seen this phase succeed.   There is always 1-2 trolls who stand in green and just sit at the bottom of the tower diddling themselves for 2 minutes.

No meta should be designed around 1-2 people screwing it up for the whole map, especially when it takes 2 hours of everyone's time.

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This meta has to be my biggest disappointment with the expansion.

I totally understand that we are on the first days and this kind of events take some time for a big chunk of players to learn how it works and while i appreciate a good challenge, this ends up being a frustrating experience more than a fun one testing your skills.

The thing is that open world meta events should be designed to be succesful as long as there is certain number of players doing them, sometimes with certain level of organization and certainly with some good players carrying some bad players, but failing should be the rare outcome, mostly caused by not having enough players doing the events or some really bad luck. This meta right now is asking a lot of players to invest a lot of time and is still very possible to fail.

But as i said, it's early, maybe a week from now this whole thread makes no sense, but to be honest i believe this meta really needs some changes even if it's just mostly in terms of lowering the boss HP.

 

 

Edited by Geckoo.6018
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9 hours ago, difens.1326 said:

Wait, what? They gated one of the major xpac selling points behind map meta when we don't have control over party ocmposition? Great. Ppl are hyped now and will try to finish it but in a few months no one will care and players late to the expansion won't get their turtle or it will take them weeks. Why not start the collection after finishing the story or some map completion?

Not just the turtle. The weapon specialization collections for Mesmer & Rev both require a successful Dragon's End meta completion.

Everything up to the end fight is fine. The end fight is too much. Soo-Won swaps sides too much for how big the platform is which makes getting to the tail tedious with the amount of mobs also there on the platform. I'm a former raider and I'm used to mechanics and overall I like the mechanics. The first time I got wisped I was like wtf is going on and I tried to get back to the top but I wasn't prepared for being wisped and How freaking far down I was in the first place. I have done Dhuum greens when I raid and that's ezpz but dang I can't imagine being a non-raider doing that and trying to do these wisp phases. I have friends who game with me who are non-raiders and they are not ready for this fight as is.

  • Total health is probably fine.
  • Soo-Won needs to swap sides less
  • Getting wisped should drop you somewhere mid-way not all the way to the ground If that mechanic stays in at all. The crystals forming from greens makes sense as that protects you from the tidal wave.
  • Timer needs to pause for greens and bosses on the platforms (basically any time you can't hit the boss)
  • Defeating the tail should knock 5% or so off the boss damage. It's literally part of her, it should damage her as well.
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18 minutes ago, khani.4786 said:

Getting wisped should drop you somewhere mid-way not all the way to the ground If that mechanic stays in at all. The crystals forming from greens makes sense as that protects you from the tidal wave.

 

Wisp or the distance dropped isn't an issue, it's the people not knowing what to do/trolling and wasting 4 mins of already tight time. And before some shouting "GIT GUD", this isn't a raid, groups cannot be 100% organized there will always be someone who doesn't know what to do or is just screwing with people, you can't kick them, and as i experienced not everyone even reads/understand the chat. Allowing few people ruin 2 hours of work for the rest is a bad design decision no matter how people look at it.

Edited by Necrosian.1359
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8 hours ago, Necrosian.1359 said:

 

And if a single person fails/trolls it costs 2 min each time.so that damage boost is meaningless. I personally haven't seen it succeed a single time.

Wisp phase is badly designed, it far too troll friendly for open world map.


You’re going under the assumption that skipping the majority of the greens was intended. Players are not trolls for doing the mechanic. 

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7 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:


You’re going under the assumption that skipping the majority of the greens was intended. Players are not trolls for doing the mechanic. 

 

I know, i actually like doing it, but at the moment it's far too reliant on people knowing what to do and not trolling. Time is already strict for open world event and failing crystal stage can screw up entire meta. So at this point cheesing/ skipping it is the best option.

Edited by Necrosian.1359
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7 minutes ago, Necrosian.1359 said:

 

I know, i actually like doing it, but at the moment it's far too reliant on people knowing what to do and not trolling. Time is already strict for open world event and failing crystal stage can screw up entire meta. So at this point cheesing/ skipping it is the best option.


Players doing the mechanic are not trolls. 

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