DO NOT nerf Dragon's End meta.

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

Attempt #27 - Result: Failed - Reason: AFKer & Greeners....
ANet come on...

[Hotride.2187]

Ah yes, the 5K UFE parties in LFG, for a map meta. Good job I guess, for making this content.

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

6 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Ah yes, the 5K UFE parties in LFG, for a map meta. Good job I guess, for making this content.

Honestly, I'm surprised that people are still trying, "I'm surprised I AM still trying", because we should just not give a kitten about that content anymore... it's not good, it's frustrating, it feels unrewarding to even attempt because there is nothing to learn, except that we still have Greeners, AFKers who will just ruin it the next time.

ANet you got to FIX THIS NOW, and stop planning for the 4th expansion already, because to be royally honest, the game will never reach that point at this time.
---------
I litterally just had an epiphany... the devs has litterally took every single bad points of the elder dragons fights and coalescenced them together...

Edited March 3, 2022 by KurokouNekoki.7891

[Cloudz.6890]

30 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

Players doing the mechanic are not trolls. 

Players doing the mechanic when the 99% of everyone is attempting to skip is trolling. Or they're not using chat which is just a bad for a meta event. It's effectively an auto-fail at that point. The meta is 'difficult' enough to where everyone has to be on the same page. If 30 people screaming "get off green" or "no green" doesn't get you to get off green idk what else you wanna call that.

[Teratus.2859]

3 hours ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

There is little to learn other than the DPS check.

That's not true, there are plenty of patterns and mechanics in the fight to get familiar with which will make it flow a lot better.
The problem isn't a DPS check, the event provides significant damage boosts to actually beat it.
Problem is a lot of people are ignoring the mechanic that gives those increases.
And yes to some degree there probably is some amount of trolling being done in some maps as well and that is a problem.

3 hours ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

And HOW are you make sure your map are filled with ppl who learn it? Each time you fail, next time you get a new team.

Everyone learns, some slower than others but eventually they will get it with experience.

The amount of time people have to wait in between meta's is a far more annoying problem in my opinion.
 

3 hours ago, Slowpokeking.8720 said:

Other bosses have been nerfed, like TD didn't become doable for most of the ppl until the scaling was removed for DPS.

Those events often don't provide mechanics that provide necessary DPS increases, Dragons End does.
People are just choosing to avoid doing those mechanics because they're not fun, which is why their calls for nerfs are not warranted imo.

You can also look at the state of those other bosses today as well and use them as evidence for why this event should not be nerfed too.

Most of them are a straight up joke today.. Mouth of Mordremoth can even be killed in a single phase even by a map full of pugs.. I've seen it happen myself.
These nerfs may have helped boost that success rate in the beginning but in the long run it has made these bosses dull, boring and completely effortless to fight.

Anet could probably double the health on most of these bosses and they would still never fail.

Nerfing Dragons End would only do the same thing in the long run for it's meta event.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Teratus.2859

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

7 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Everyone learns, some slower than others but eventually they will get it with experience.

Everyone can learns how to be a troll, that's the only thing that can be pulled out from your statement there

 

7 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said:

People are just choosing to avoid doing those mechanics because they're not fun, which is why their calls for nerfs are not warranted imo.

You are wrong!
We are choosing to avoid doing those mechanics because it is the ONLY way to go around the nonesense of those who comes in map to ruin it.

 

7 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said:

These nerfs may have helped boost that success rate in the beginning but in the long run it has made these bosses dull, boring and completely effortless to fight.

Well you said it,
But even with the nerfs this META event would still be dull regardless.
It is NOT intuitive,
The efforts of those who try are not rewarded in the end.
-------------
You tell me one thing though, you ARE a raider/fractalist are you?
That would completely explain your standpoint of white knighting something that so many people have already voiced against you already.

Edited March 3, 2022 by KurokouNekoki.7891

[KeoLegend.5132]

On 3/2/2022 at 5:50 AM, Asum.4960 said:

There is no content in this game where just pressing 1 isn't enough. Even Raids can be cleared by squads just Auto Attacking - what it comes down to is having a build for it and doing mechanics. 

What a poor liar

[Ashlin.3708]

3 hours ago, LuRkEr.9462 said:

So after multiple pug tries I ended up doing a friends list run (friends of friends of friends) from raid and fractal community. Took us a while to get a squad of 45 in the same map, but we did it. We killed the meta using no greens strat , mesmer portal between tail and head, with organized groups alac + quickness and finished with 2 minutes to spare. 

For an open world meta it should not be that intense. If we did greens as intended I am pretty sure we would of cut it very close. Average squad DPS was 24.4k.

 

I would suspect the greens phase needs adjusted and maybe the tail. Its also flaky for the average player where the boss head or tail is visible but it can still be hit. This is something we had to be sure to explain in squad to maximize dps.

Yeah the main problem I am finding, is the tail is just sooooo frequent. and simple fact is, map meta's like this are played by casuals, by people who know they arent good at the game, thats why they dont do Raids and stuff. so in the end, unless youve got 50 friends who are good at the game, your kinda screwed with this meta. I know I have 5 friends I play the game with. we're good enough to do T4 Fracs. we average around 14-25k damage. Theres no way we'll ever be able to beat this meta none the less grind it as the game being an MMO requires. 

If they make it so the tail is up less often it'll give you more time to dps which will lower the need for such high dps as again, casuals arent going to be pumping out 20k dps, nor should they really be expected to, theres a reason they are casuals. 
and yeah green phase is great for people who do raids but once again we are talking an event that will be mostly played by casuals, so I short, I guess im just saying a lengthy version of I think your right, nerf tail and nerf green and meta should be fine.

[Teratus.2859]

4 minutes ago, KurokouNekoki.7891 said:

Everyone can learns how to be a troll, that's the only thing that can be pulled out from your statement there

So everyone who is new to content or less experience is automatically a troll?
I don't agree with that at all.
This content is literally days old.. days!!
Give people time to learn it.

4 minutes ago, KurokouNekoki.7891 said:

You are wrong!
We are choosing to avoid doing those mechanics because it is the ONLY way to go around the nonesense of those who comes in map to ruin it.

And that's working out so well isn't it..
Clearly avoiding the mechanic isn't the answer.

Honestly the simplest way I can see to fix this issue is to make it so only a handful of people actually need to complete it for the phase to succeed.

You wouldn't have to worry about trolls in that case anymore.

4 minutes ago, KurokouNekoki.7891 said:

But even with the nerfs this META event would still be dull regardless.
It is NOT intuitive,
The efforts of those who try are not rewarded in the end.

That's a matter of opinion, personally I found it fun even with the fail.
It's certainly a step up over most of the game's world bosses and Meta events.

4 minutes ago, KurokouNekoki.7891 said:

You tell me one thing though, you ARE a raider/fractalist are you?
That would completely explain your standpoint of white knighting something that so many people have already voiced against you already.

LOL!!
Sorry but that one was really amusing. XD
No lol, No not even remotely and you can check my post history if you think im lying.

I dabble in fractals on occasion when I feel in the mood for it but I don't take the content all that seriously.
I play it for fun and nothing else.

I am probably somewhat of a familiar name in Raid discussions though because I argue and fight with raiders all the time.
Usually over elitism, exclusion and what I would call their unhealthy attitude towards metaculture and DPS benchmarks that I consider to be unnecessary.

I will feel quite the same about this meta event as well when people start getting elitist and start whining about players "not doing enough DPS"
And to some degree we already are with complaints about not being able to choose who plays in the map and not being able to kick people.

I take a hard stance against that sort of thing, nobody has the right to tell someone else they can't play here.
 

[Ototo.3214]

I disagree, it needs to be nerfed in some way.

Not drastically. But it does need to be changed so that a decently competent squad can complete it fairly consistently. Doesn't need to always succeed, but it shouldn't be failing on nearly every attempt. 

I don't want to see this meta event end up like the PoF metas post release; those were too difficult to clear for the average player and were competing for players' attention with much more rewarding and consistently cleared metas in HoT in the same timeslots. Why would people want to spend time doing Dragon's End again if they could just do...pretty much any other meta event in the game for more rewards within those 1.5 to 2 hours.

And this is coming from someone who enjoys the GW2 raids, strike missions, and fractals. I've cleared enough of those to have a full set of raid legendary armor and the ring and had a great time doing it once I found a group to play with. But there's a difference between getting together with a raid group to attempt clearing a raid boss and an open world map meta; while it might take you 2+ hours to learn and clear a raid boss with your group, you can have multiple attempts at it in succession very easily with a group of specific people, but the meta event you are pretty much always stuck with 50+ pugs  of vastly varying skill levels most likely...and it can take 2 hours just to get to 1 attempt that will probably fail. It doesn't matter how good you are individually because you just can't control that many people.

That and trying to wrangle that many people into not doing a mechanic as a cheese strategy should not be the way to clear an event. Having people do the mechanic correctly should be the standard imo.

The last run I attempted, we had a pretty dang good group that was doing quite well but was just accidentally ruined because 1 or 2 people didn't get the memo of what was being said in map/squad chat. And I'm not going to call them trolls because it's possible some people just aren't reading the chats, you can't expect that. But a meta shouldn't live or die on that many people playing perfectly like it's a raid.

[mythical.6315]

18 minutes ago, Cloudz.6890 said:

Players doing the mechanic when the 99% of everyone is attempting to skip is trolling. Or they're not using chat which is just a bad for a meta event. It's effectively an auto-fail at that point. The meta is 'difficult' enough to where everyone has to be on the same page. If 30 people screaming "get off green" or "no green" doesn't get you to get off green idk what else you wanna call that.

It’s not trolling to simply do the mechanic. It’s only trolling if they’re intentionally doing it intentionally to mess with players. You’d only know this if they communicated it in map chat. 

[mythical.6315]

1 hour ago, Necrosian.1359 said:

Players getting intentionally wisped and then writing "Enjoy your 2 mins" or just standing at the bottom are.

Yes. I’d agree that would probably be trolling. 

[Ashlin.3708]

7 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said:

So everyone who is new to content or less experience is automatically a troll?
I don't agree with that at all.
This content is literally days old.. days!!
Give people time to learn it.

And that's working out so well isn't it..
Clearly avoiding the mechanic isn't the answer.

Honestly the simplest way I can see to fix this issue is to make it so only a handful of people actually need to complete it for the phase to succeed.

You wouldn't have to worry about trolls in that case anymore.

That's a matter of opinion, personally I found it fun even with the fail.
It's certainly a step up over most of the game's world bosses and Meta events.

LOL!!
Sorry but that one was really amusing. XD
No lol, No not even remotely and you can check my post history if you think im lying.

I dabble in fractals on occasion when I feel in the mood for it but I don't take the content all that seriously.
I play it for fun and nothing else.

I am probably somewhat of a familiar name in Raid discussions though because I argue and fight with raiders all the time.
Usually over elitism, exclusion and what I would call their unhealthy attitude towards metaculture and DPS benchmarks that I consider to be unnecessary.

I will feel quite the same about this meta event as well when people start getting elitist and start whining about players "not doing enough DPS"
And to some degree we already are with complaints about not being able to choose who plays in the map and not being able to kick people.

I take a hard stance against that sort of thing, nobody has the right to tell someone else they can't play here.
 

Yeah im sorry, the elitest group of players coming in and wanting this meta to stay near impossible is disgusting. I say that AS a T4 Frac runner daily, a Raid player, and someone who revels in games like Nioh and Darksouls. 
The simple fact is, tryhards and elitests have their game modes and their places, open worlds and map metas ARE NOT IT. I think its disgusting people think others shouldnt get to do the meta just cause they arent good enough, they shouldnt need to be good enough its THEIR mode, the casual mode. The meta is to hard and needs nerfed, it should be designed for the casuals NOT the elitests. If people want a challenge, go do T4 Sun qua. Go do Dhuum. Dragon's End should Not be the next raid, that logic is entire stupid. And the fact that you have to grind it for PvE mats and stuff. Yeah no... 

[Cloudz.6890]

Just now, mythical.6315 said:

 You’d only know this if they communicated it in map chat. 

I think that's part of the problem. They're doing a meta event that basically requires communication, but they're not communicating. So is the problem the meta event or the players? I'm not saying everyone on the map has to do the meta, but if anet wants the metas to be this difficult then not being in map/squad chat can and often ruins the DE meta runs.

I don't actually think they're trolling, but there's not really a difference other than intent and I don't know intent because they're not in chat.

[Mike.7983]

1 minute ago, Ashlin.3708 said:

Yeah im sorry, the elitest group of players coming in and wanting this meta to stay near impossible is disgusting. I say that AS a T4 Frac runner daily, a Raid player, and someone who revels in games like Nioh and Darksouls. 
The simple fact is, tryhards and elitests have their game modes and their places, open worlds and map metas ARE NOT IT. I think its disgusting people think others shouldnt get to do the meta just cause they arent good enough, they shouldnt need to be good enough its THEIR mode, the casual mode. The meta is to hard and needs nerfed, it should be designed for the casuals NOT the elitests. If people want a challenge, go do T4 Sun qua. Go do Dhuum. Dragon's End should Not be the next raid, that logic is entire stupid. And the fact that you have to grind it for PvE mats and stuff. Yeah no... 

The people wanting no nerfs are the ones who piggybacked off a twitch streamer map and got a turtle already and do not want everyone else to get one so they can feel special flaunting it off.

[Ashlin.3708]

3 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

It’s not trolling to simply do the mechanic. It’s only trolling if they’re intentionally doing it intentionally to mess with players. You’d only know this if they communicated it in map chat. 

You also got to remember as map meta's are suppose to be for the casual community, not the elitest community, a lot of players do this crazy thing called, turning chat OFF. IE if 30 people are yelling at them to get off green, they might not even know.

[Ashlin.3708]

1 minute ago, Mike.7983 said:

The people wanting no nerfs are the ones who piggybacked off a twitch streamer map and got a turtle already and do not want everyone else to get one so they can feel special flaunting it off.

Yeah I was ina  conversation with Tommy the Tall whose a friend with said streamer, and all he did was say lol everyone should just get good Im gonna go get mine with Mighty Teapot, cause only mighty teapot is going to have the organization it takes to grind the map.  So yeah I kinda do gotta validate that.

Just another reason it needs nerfed. 99% of players arent famous twitch streamers so they wont be able to get that kind of organization.

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

3 minutes ago, Ashlin.3708 said:

Just another reason it needs nerfed. 99% of players arent famous twitch streamers so they wont be able to get that kind of organization.

Ngl, this was absolutely my impression of Famous Twitchers, who I cannot see as them trying very hard, all they need to do is to stream the game and people will mass flock towards them and listen to the instructions...

Edited March 3, 2022 by KurokouNekoki.7891

[yann.1946]

I don't think a nerf is in order yet. 

What absolutely needs to be addressed though, is the green mechanic and abilities to troll the event. (and some bugs Ofcourse.)

[Caitybee.3614]

2 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

I don't think a nerf is in order yet. 

What absolutely needs to be addressed though, is the green mechanic and abilities to troll the event. (and some bugs Ofcourse.)

 

10 more mins to the timer would help a lot. Might be the only thing needed tbh.

[Ototo.3214]

2 minutes ago, yann.1946 said:

I don't think a nerf is in order yet. 

What absolutely needs to be addressed though, is the green mechanic and abilities to troll the event. (and some bugs Ofcourse.)

I can actually really agree with this. If they can tweak the green mechanic to be something that people can't just troll and is a mechanic that is actually done as intended instead of trying to get people to skip I think the meta would be a lot better.

[yann.1946]

15 minutes ago, Ashlin.3708 said:

Yeah im sorry, the elitest group of players coming in and wanting this meta to stay near impossible is disgusting. I say that AS a T4 Frac runner daily, a Raid player, and someone who revels in games like Nioh and Darksouls. 
The simple fact is, tryhards and elitests have their game modes and their places, open worlds and map metas ARE NOT IT. I think its disgusting people think others shouldnt get to do the meta just cause they arent good enough, they shouldnt need to be good enough its THEIR mode, the casual mode. The meta is to hard and needs nerfed, it should be designed for the casuals NOT the elitests. If people want a challenge, go do T4 Sun qua. Go do Dhuum. Dragon's End should Not be the next raid, that logic is entire stupid. And the fact that you have to grind it for PvE mats and stuff. Yeah no... 

While I agree for the most part, there is however a place for difficult and fail able met as in ow. 

 

It is more a problem how long the Meta takes however. 

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

Just now, Ototo.3214 said:

I can actually really agree with this. If they can tweak the green mechanic to be something that people can't just troll and is a mechanic that is actually done as intended instead of trying to get people to skip I think the meta would be a lot better.

Tbh that WOULD be considered a sort of nerf in a sense.

[Ashlin.3708]

1 minute ago, Caitybee.3614 said:

 

10 more mins to the timer would help a lot. Might be the only thing needed tbh.

Ten more minutes or make the dps needed more suited to Casuals as it should have originally been as thats whose going to be playing it and grinding it.
I honestly then the dps requirements being lowered to be on par with Casuals would be better. adding time seems severe? but just changing the dps needed would adjust it to be more in tune with the player base thats going to be playing it the most.
plus as you need to grind it for PvE mats, it shouldnt be super hard imo

[KurokouNekoki.7891]

Just now, Ashlin.3708 said:

Ten more minutes or make the dps needed more suited to Casuals as it should have originally been as thats whose going to be playing it and grinding it.
I honestly then the dps requirements being lowered to be on par with Casuals would be better. adding time seems severe? but just changing the dps needed would adjust it to be more in tune with the player base thats going to be playing it the most.
plus as you need to grind it for PvE mats, it shouldnt be super hard imo

I think the time adding is out of questions because on how it is scheduled on the timeframe, they would have to reduce the time of the pre to accomodate.
I only seen the DPS Check to be lower as the most suitable solution.
Green Mechanics would be the second one. Like reducing the event to like 1 minutes instead of 2.