If you nerf Healing Dodge of Vindicator

[grx.8714]

You will make another spec fall into oblivion.

 

Saint's Shield is very very strong, don't get me wrong.

 

But if you nerf it in Anet style, which means from 3k heal + 3k barrier will go to 500 heal and 500 barrier what will happen to the spec?

 

It will become on par if not worse of shiro shortbow renegade, herald will stay meta again for another 2 years.

 

Harbinger maybe will have the same destiny, don't know why people cry about it when it dies so easily, you really wanna have another 2 years of kitten condi core necro and sup guard again?

 

Instead of nerfing those, make some buffs to catalyst or virtuoso which are really meme tier and impossible to play anywhere.

 

But yeah, they don't care of PvP, but at least let's try.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

yep, thats the problem when you make a spec that relies much too heavily on a few things instead of spreading it out. any nerf or buff effects things too drastically.

[CutesySylveon.8290]

Saint Dodge needs a nerf.

Damage dodge needs a speed buff during its animation. 

Tree Song is literally better than Ventari's entire kit and needs some SERIOUS nerfs.

GS is still only used for 4 and 5 skills since the rest lie about their range.

 

We start here. I'm fine with high damage if you cut sustain through Tree Song and Saint Dodge at the very least. 

[Virdo.1540]

38 minutes ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

Saint Dodge needs a nerf.

Damage dodge needs a speed buff during its animation. 

Tree Song is literally better than Ventari's entire kit and needs some SERIOUS nerfs.

GS is still only used for 4 and 5 skills since the rest lie about their range.

 

We start here. I'm fine with high damage if you cut sustain through Tree Song and Saint Dodge at the very least. 

The dodge in general needs a speedbuff. 

Its better than ventaris full kit because ventaris kit is full of 💩

And the most GS skills have bugged hitbox-range

[grx.8714]

36 minutes ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

Saint Dodge needs a nerf.

Damage dodge needs a speed buff during its animation. 

Tree Song is literally better than Ventari's entire kit and needs some SERIOUS nerfs.

GS is still only used for 4 and 5 skills since the rest lie about their range.

 

We start here. I'm fine with high damage if you cut sustain through Tree Song and Saint Dodge at the very least. 

 

It's broken, but if you nerf them it's just better to play herald again and forget of vindicator.

 

If they nerf the damage on Gs same story, just play shiro rene or herald once again.

 

It is viable only for his healing dodge.

 

To be honest I will remove the Aoe and support part of it, the spec was designed to be a dps, not a dodge spammer to support others, it's stupid mechanic to support others with a dodge. Get rid of it and maybe maybe it 2k 2k and will be fine.

[Ashgar.3024]

Delete.

 

Edited March 3, 2022 by Ashgar.3024

[Ashgar.3024]

1 hour ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

Tree Song is literally better than Ventari's entire kit and needs some SERIOUS nerfs.

Then everyone will just run Jallis cause honestly Tree Song might be the only good ability in both kits.

Everything else is like a worse version of what exists in base Legends or Glint's kit and neither Elites are any good. The Spear is kinda nice to get memey kills but you have time to make a coffee before it actually launches.

On top of the fact its cumbersome to use in the heat of the action.

Meanwhile Jallis, reliable heal skill (a rarity in Rev's kit) huge stab, a Taunt which fits the rest of the kit perfectly, spinny hammers go brrr for decent cleave damage (they keep ticking even when jumping) and stunbreak on Elite.

Edited March 3, 2022 by Ashgar.3024

[dusanyu.4057]

the kit is fine for PvE its nice to see Revs have more active roll that running boons

[CutesySylveon.8290]

3 hours ago, Ashgar.3024 said:

Then everyone will just run Jallis cause honestly Tree Song might be the only good ability in both kits.

Everything else is like a worse version of what exists in base Legends or Glint's kit and neither Elites are any good. The Spear is kinda nice to get memey kills but you have time to make a coffee before it actually launches.

On top of the fact its cumbersome to use in the heat of the action.

Meanwhile Jallis, reliable heal skill (a rarity in Rev's kit) huge stab, a Taunt which fits the rest of the kit perfectly, spinny hammers go brrr for decent cleave damage (they keep ticking even when jumping) and stunbreak on Elite.

Everything is a worse version? I've already mentioned Tree Song, but there are no bad skills in the Alliance kit besides Urn.

Both the heals are great, one being able to heal allies for insane amounts.

Archemorus has a Dazing stun break that hurts and gives stab per target hit. A dash that is super low cost and CD and hits hard. A ranged AoE that gives quickness on cast, and extra seconds on hit, and does good damage.  Spear is a setup move you use to bait dodges or hit after someone uses said dodges.

Zu Heltzer has a group stunbreak, a Lightning Reflexes like evade that's only a few frames from being instant cast, and Tree Song, which is hilarious broken.

 

GS is a buggy mess, no argument there, but overall this spec has a TON of versatility and options, especially on the support side. Are the skills as strong as Shiro or Jalis? Not always, but they're not doing the same things and you get 2 in 1. Again, nerf Tree Song and Saint dodge and we'll see how it goes. 

[CutesySylveon.8290]

7 hours ago, Virdo.1540 said:

The dodge in general needs a speedbuff. 

Its better than ventaris full kit because ventaris kit is full of 💩

And the most GS skills have bugged hitbox-range

Yes, the dodges do need a speed buff.

Ventari had potential but he's too clunky for how little he puts out. Then you get Tree Song that cleanses more condi, gives endurance per condi and per ally, costs less energy, has a shorter CD, and doesn't require anything like the tablet. It's hilariously sad. 

Edit: It heals for over double the amount per condi as well.

Edited March 4, 2022 by CutesySylveon.8290

[Master Ketsu.4569]

They need nerfs, but not heavy ones. Something like tree song to 25e and Saints to 2.2k in PvP should bring it in line while keeping it viable. People are already discovering some similarly powerful builds.

Also remember that if you are actually dying to GS5 then it's a L2P issue. It's a contender for the most telegraphed and slowest casting weapon skill in the game. Learn to not random dodge and you will find that it is not as oppressive as you think.

[FrownyClown.8402]

3k heal and 3k barrier is too much imo. Closer to 2k each is more fair.

[BobbyT.7192]

They'll nerf the base heal and barrier you get, and then buff their coefficients, so it roughly the same when you spec into high hp. Good thing there lots of those amulets around 😛

Edited March 4, 2022 by BobbyT.7192

[aelska.4609]

I'm more triggered by the animations tbh; we all knew elites design were overall terrible and they'd require cheese options to survive.

 

Best part is that it will probably never be fixed, exactly like warrior full-counter animation bug 😄

(Meanwhile, I still don't understand why opponents have to see their healing dodge AoE circle. What for ?  So we can CC him middodge ? )

[Vancho.8750]

16 minutes ago, aelska.4609 said:

I'm more triggered by the animations tbh; we all knew elites design were overall terrible and they'd require cheese options to survive.

 

Best part is that it will probably never be fixed, exactly like warrior full-counter animation bug 😄

(Meanwhile, I still don't understand why opponents have to see their healing dodge AoE circle. What for ?  So we can CC him middodge ? )

Just to make your point even more horrible, the Full counter bug is actually the Protector's Strike mace bug of guardian that is there from the launch of the game since Full counter is the same skill but with yellow animation.

[FarmBotXD.1430]

19 hours ago, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

Everything is a worse version? I've already mentioned Tree Song, but there are no bad skills in the Alliance kit besides Urn.

Both the heals are great, one being able to heal allies for insane amounts.

Archemorus has a Dazing stun break that hurts and gives stab per target hit. A dash that is super low cost and CD and hits hard. A ranged AoE that gives quickness on cast, and extra seconds on hit, and does good damage.  Spear is a setup move you use to bait dodges or hit after someone uses said dodges.

Zu Heltzer has a group stunbreak, a Lightning Reflexes like evade that's only a few frames from being instant cast, and Tree Song, which is hilarious broken.

 

GS is a buggy mess, no argument there, but overall this spec has a TON of versatility and options, especially on the support side. Are the skills as strong as Shiro or Jalis? Not always, but they're not doing the same things and you get 2 in 1. Again, nerf Tree Song and Saint dodge and we'll see how it goes. 

I just read what tree song does.
WHat the kitten were the devs smoking when doing this, like its not even funny how busted this skill is lol

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Oh look, it works. Can't wait for the complaints to make it impractical to run, just like Mallyx/Ventari. 

[Bazsi.2734]

3 hours ago, Vancho.8750 said:

Just to make your point even more horrible, the Full counter bug is actually the Protector's Strike mace bug of guardian that is there from the launch of the game since Full counter is the same skill but with yellow animation.

I could understand a-net not bothering to fix the kazillion bugs and exploits with dungeons since those are irrelevant content now, but the fact that the same animation bug that got reported in 2012 is still in the game in 2022 is incredible to me.
Like I see it every day. It annoys me every day. Vindicator dodge not being properly animated just adds to the annoying broken stuff that is surrounding me... multidollar company. But maybe the broken animation fits the broken funcinality and balance so... hit yourself until it doesn't hurt anymore i guess.

Edited March 4, 2022 by Bazsi.2734

[agrippastrilemma.8741]

Shiro shortbow renegade is still very strong though.

Edited March 5, 2022 by agrippastrilemma.8741

[Ashgar.3024]

6 hours ago, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

Also remember that if you are actually dying to GS5 then it's a L2P issue. It's a contender for the most telegraphed and slowest casting weapon skill in the game. Learn to not random dodge and you will find that it is not as oppressive as you think.

Yeah its funny to bait people's dodges with a basic Sword 3 then switch to GS+Shiro and blow them up lol.

 

People gonna learn to play against it. Its just as avoidable as a Soulbeast or Power Chrono burst setup.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

On 3/3/2022 at 9:35 PM, grx.8714 said:

You will make another spec fall into oblivion.

 

Saint's Shield is very very strong, don't get me wrong.

 

But if you nerf it in Anet style, which means from 3k heal + 3k barrier will go to 500 heal and 500 barrier what will happen to the spec?

 

It will become on par if not worse of shiro shortbow renegade, herald will stay meta again for another 2 years.

 

Harbinger maybe will have the same destiny, don't know why people cry about it when it dies so easily, you really wanna have another 2 years of kitten condi core necro and sup guard again?

 

Instead of nerfing those, make some buffs to catalyst or virtuoso which are really meme tier and impossible to play anywhere.

 

But yeah, they don't care of PvP, but at least let's try.

OH NO I DON'T GET A HEALING SKILL + 2s EVADE EVERY 6S WHAT A TRAGEDY PLEASE ANET I NEED THE CONSOLE DEVMODE OR I'LL END UP HAVING TO ACTUALLY LEARN THE GAME I'M PLAYING 😞

[Hotride.2187]

I'd fight a power herald any day over the new spec. Power herald has more damage and less sustain, so it must kite and choose its moments to burst you down. Along with power mesmer, power herald is my favorite duel after war mirror duels. Requires timing and skill, way more so than many other builds you'll run into.

The new spec is "la la la", try to burst, fail, "la la la", repeat. Its like thief but the stealth is replaced with sustain, the burst doesn't come from stealth (and so it can be dodged) and its nowhere as mobile. Where thief can afford some mistakes, but not too many, the new rev just soaks the damage like a sponge and hopes you fail to dodge that 1 burst... Though unlike thief it just melts 2v1 (cause of no stealth).

I don't even know how you save the spec honestly. Take away some sustain from the dodge and make it into damage? Or maybe let it heal teammates (no idea if that does that already) for less HP. But definitely anything other than the current state. Its like fighting a cele build in wvw...

Edited March 5, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[XECOR.2814]

healing together with dodge, block, dmg reduction and insane damage counter pressure from unescapable gs5 is too high. instead of deleting 1 thing if everything can be cut a bit it should be good

[anjo.6143]

That dodge is bizarre, it shouldnt even exist.

[Shao.7236]

On 3/4/2022 at 2:33 PM, Master Ketsu.4569 said:

They need nerfs, but not heavy ones. Something like tree song to 25e and Saints to 2.2k in PvP should bring it in line while keeping it viable. People are already discovering some similarly powerful builds.

Also remember that if you are actually dying to GS5 then it's a L2P issue. It's a contender for the most telegraphed and slowest casting weapon skill in the game. Learn to not random dodge and you will find that it is not as oppressive as you think.

Being Taunted and unable to stunbreak while it lasts isn't a L2P issue. They knew that and that's why they nerfed range on it, so that it's only truly in favor of this bs. They're just slowly ruining the entire profession instead of fixing the issues with others.

 

15k damage on heavy armor is cringe, so is 20k on light. Remove guaranteed targets or nerf damage, no one asked for heatseeking meteor shower, the skill is unfun to play and GS can deal plenty damage without it.