How would you rate Catalyst?

[Bleikopf.2491]

1 hour ago, Mara.6782 said:

I rated it as meh or bad earlier but after the nerf it's now terrible.

I'm the same.

[SeTect.5918]

2 hours ago, Mara.6782 said:

I rated it as meh or bad earlier but after the nerf it's now terrible.

same and agree.

[Guybrush.4762]

Last patch hit the spec super hard. Pure dps in Berzerker gear is no longer viable, the new numbers does not meet what is required for this role. The Diviner support variant will most likely not see play either ; the dps and utility is simply not competitive with the other quickness provider. I guess the desirability of the full support/healer variant is still on the table but I definitely don't feel strongly about it with the sphere nerf.

All in all, I am waiting to see how much dps the rotation wizards will be able to somehow salvage out of it in a real scenario (as opposed to a golem benchmark) but I don't have a lot of hope. As it stand, the Catalyst probably does not have a spot in the PvE meta. I could see a double dagger Catalyst work in sPvP and WvW roaming though.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Guybrush.4762

[Evil.1580]

Really strong spec in both PvE and PvP.

 

It is S tier in the right hands and I think a reasonable amount of small tweaks and nerfs are still acceptable.

[SeTect.5918]

37 minutes ago, Evil.1580 said:

Really strong spec in both PvE and PvP.

 

It is S tier in the right hands and I think a reasonable amount of small tweaks and nerfs are still acceptable.

Thats sarcasm right?

[Evil.1580]

9 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Thats sarcasm right?

No.

 

Imo only very capable players should play catalyst and elementalist in general. The rotations are more complicated and overall it reqs more actions to be performed to achieve same things like other professions - I agree with this. But it is way more versatile than any other profession, and as I said - in the right hands it is a little bit too strong.

 

You should keep that in mind that when you see a good catalyst, the player behind the monitor is probably very good and has deep understandings of the game mechanics. And, the opposite, if you can't perform good with catalyst, your probably has reached the capacity of actions per second that you can perform (physically speaking), don't have the experience or just the spec (and profession in general) isn't for you - you should go necro or something and leave the ele to the big boiz.

[SeTect.5918]

2 hours ago, Evil.1580 said:

No.

 

Imo only very capable players should play catalyst and elementalist in general. The rotations are more complicated and overall it reqs more actions to be performed to achieve same things like other professions - I agree with this. But it is way more versatile than any other profession, and as I said - in the right hands it is a little bit too strong.

 

You should keep that in mind that when you see a good catalyst, the player behind the monitor is probably very good and has deep understandings of the game mechanics. And, the opposite, if you can't perform good with catalyst, your probably has reached the capacity of actions per second that you can perform (physically speaking), don't have the experience or just the spec (and profession in general) isn't for you - you should go necro or something and leave the ele to the big boiz.

You don't understand it. 

The point is that even if u r a good catalyst, u wont do good because of the massive nerfs.

If u think that a 33.5k benchmark (and far lower in real fights) can compete with a 37-41k benchmark (and slightly lower in real fights) then you clearly have no idea about this game. 

Well actually it could be, but then u need condi transfer, Boon corruption, high sustain or something like epidemy. However catalyst has nothing of this. 

There is no way a very good catalyst can compete with a good....willbender, scourge, harbinger, mechanist, renegade.......list goes on.

The fact that you said that catalyst could even get more nerfs makes me think if u actually play this game or saw the nerf patch notes and New catalyst benchmarks. 

Imagine you are are fine with nerfing an e spec that does 33.5k dps on a benchmark with full dps build and has no sustain and mobility. And offers almost nothing to the group if u dont play quickness support (which does even far faaar less dps).

Edited March 18, 2022 by SeTect.5918

[Psy.7386]

I can think of a better mechanic than jade sphere off the top of my head, ready? Detonates, instead of Augments. 

What do they do? Slam your hammer down inside of the Jade Sphere's field, detonating the field that causes an effect, or boons, or debuffs, or whatever. Actually using the hammer....like a kittening hammer, and detonating the combo fields elemental energy to cause affects. Synergizes with jade sphere, makes it so you specifically only do it inside jade sphere fields so you don't have to worry about group content mass overlapping many fields, etc....Boom, it's that easy. 

 

Here, I got another one real quick. We're supposed to be a CATALYST , so we should be CATALYIZING something, right? Maybe the mechanic is called Merge or something. We can slam your hammer down to catalyze our current jade sphere field , while we're in another element, to catalyze it and turn it into a field we don't normally have access too, like a Light field, or Shadow field, etc. 

 

This kitten is so easy to think of, and I know that sounds cocky, but look what they gave us.....LOOK WHAT THEY CAME UP WITH. "AUGMENTS".....JUST A SIMPLE "PRESS THIS BUTTON, HERE'S A DAMAGE BUFF TEEHEE." BUTTON. BLAND. BORING. GENERIC. 

 

Side bar, hammer specs should never be ranged, EVER, unless the ranged ability is a hard hitting ability of smashing the ground to cause rubble to fly up, then you slam all the rubble at the enemy. Using a hammer as a kittening staff to cast with is a stupid fantasy thing that I will never like. 

[Psy.7386]

5 hours ago, Evil.1580 said:

No.

 

Imo only very capable players should play catalyst and elementalist in general. The rotations are more complicated and overall it reqs more actions to be performed to achieve same things like other professions - I agree with this. But it is way more versatile than any other profession, and as I said - in the right hands it is a little bit too strong.

 

You should keep that in mind that when you see a good catalyst, the player behind the monitor is probably very good and has deep understandings of the game mechanics. And, the opposite, if you can't perform good with catalyst, your probably has reached the capacity of actions per second that you can perform (physically speaking), don't have the experience or just the spec (and profession in general) isn't for you - you should go necro or something and leave the ele to the big boiz.

Here's what I'm saying...I DON'T PLAY GW2 FOR PEAK OPTIMAL PERFORMANCE GAMEPLAY. I'LL PLAY WOW IF I WANT TO DO THAT. I JUST WNAT THE CLASS TO FEEL GOOD TO PLAY, and CAtalyst does not. 

 

Balance in this game should only EVER be done for two reasons. A class is over performing massively , or underperforming massively, that's it. 

 

Instead they nerfed the mechancis of the class itself, like the Jade Sphere getting a triple CD nerf, which overall just makes it feel worse, on top of the class itself feeling clunky to begin with with a hammer, and the kit itself just being....Core Ele +

 

This game should NEVER be balancing about "optimal players", that's what vertical progression MMOs do to slow down player progression to increase play time. This is a horizontal MMO. Just make the classes feel good, and not be dumpster fire or godlike, and that's it. 

[Vissarion.6509]

9 hours ago, Evil.1580 said:

No.

 

Imo only very capable players should play catalyst and elementalist in general. The rotations are more complicated and overall it reqs more actions to be performed to achieve same things like other professions - I agree with this. But it is way more versatile than any other profession, and as I said - in the right hands it is a little bit too strong.

 

You should keep that in mind that when you see a good catalyst, the player behind the monitor is probably very good and has deep understandings of the game mechanics. And, the opposite, if you can't perform good with catalyst, your probably has reached the capacity of actions per second that you can perform (physically speaking), don't have the experience or just the spec (and profession in general) isn't for you - you should go necro or something and leave the ele to the big boiz.

Don't bite. He is a troll.

[Jski.6180]

The "roll" that anet seems to want catalyst to fill is an "boon" roll. Sadly the class dose not have any true uniquest boon that it can give to others (maybe a way to give orbs to other players but that not how it works now). It also is missing an needed def boons of aegis or stab it dose not need both but it should have one of these 2 on-top of what it already has.

I am all for making catalyst more bard like boon support aimed class maybe making orbs work like auras where you can share them with your team mostly for the buff but also for a bit of boots dps. Having a aegis or stab on auras share would go a long way as well even if its a short duration.

Right now it has non of these things and the best thing that it can do "dps" was just hyped nerfed (how all hit box dps nerf end up working out even the smallest nerfs destroy them comply) even the boon side was hit hard due to longer cd on its f5 (no means of giving boons as an boon support class with out its f5 that was very much over nerfed). Catalyst is worthless more so now then it was before.

[ToeJammin.7893]

BEFORE NERFS  Catalyst in general = awesome. Finally a way to play a meaningful support that actually brings good boons to the table. Finally a way to play a ranged dps ele that is actually fun and intense. 
Hammer in general = Very awkward, but extremely rewarding in PERFECT SITUATIONS LIKE AN AFK BENCHMARK GOLEM. In real world situations, its pretty good, just hard to learn, and requires perfect rotations. 

POST NERF   Catalyst in general = Play  a different class
hammer in general  = Like a guardian or necro 

[scerevisiae.1972]

On 3/20/2022 at 8:47 AM, ToeJammin.7893 said:

POST NERF   Catalyst in general = Play  a different class

actually D/D catalyst is actually pretty good.

hammer was garbage except vs raid golems, and now post-nerf it's garbage everywhere!!!11 

 

[ASP.8093]

I've only really tried it in World vs World but I really don't like it much, in World vs World.

In theory, you can stack up huge bonuses and throw down big attacks with like 4.5k Power / 100% Crit Chance / 270% Crit Damage or something like that. In practice… there are a lot of internal cooldowns on your bonus-granting traits so you are going to have a very hard time keeping the stacks up outside PvE. Weaver is less powerful on paper but gives you that power on-demand instead of shackling it to a fussy ramp-up mechanic.

[Shiyo.3578]

Not Mechanist / 10.

[Serephen.3420]

I rate Catalyst as emotional damage.

[Doggie.3184]

100% hate it so voted Terrible ofc. It'd make a little more sense if the Hammer just looked and acted like a heavy staff and more things like that existed since Wizards in D&D can enchant and dip Staves and thoink things on the head and whatever. I would accept it more (the weapon, not the current playstyle) if that were the case. I'd actually expect that to be what the idea was based around (which it's not) but that's not what Ele needs right now anyways for a new spec and playstyle. We have enough Melee Ele builds. The Hammer idea is awful, the signature Hammer skin looks embarassingly bad to me with it's scattered floating mess which describes the class itself well, ironically, a "Scattered Mess"... from trying to be too many things at once.  "Floating" too actually, after the Ele hangs itself.

The Spirits could of actually been a cooler summoning mechanic similar to Renegade (better actually since the Charr spirits look lame) and it could of focused on range combat, with a range weapon, and summoning spirits that actually did something. It's the very embodyment of missed opprotunities for this game and the worst part is absolutly nothing will ever fix it~ they'd never go that far or drastic with a redesign and would certainly never change the weapon.

Tempest used to be my favorite Spvp class but it just doesn't feel as strong as it used to be and I didn't like Weaver. Now; this spec coming next is extremely disappointing. I have two elementalist and considering deleting one so I can make a new race for a different, more fun class. Depends on how important I feel his Bday gifts are XD

(PS: Barely any classes have access to Longbow or Rifle)

Edited March 22, 2022 by Doggie.3184

[wolfyrik.2017]

On 3/10/2022 at 9:13 PM, Drakonhammer.2148 said:

I was looking forward to hammer but it really does feel like catalyst is the leftovers from tempest and weaver without feeling fun. And hammer in its current form doesn't synergise well with most of the talents, it has too few auras or low CD finishers. Dagger seems to work better but then I prefer tempest or weaver's kits over catalyst's so why would I not go for one of those?

It also feels weird seeing untamed get vitality outright from minor traits (as if ranger has survivability problems), meanwhile catalyst gets advertised as a close to mid range brawler and does not. I feel much tankier with dagger or weaver or aura tempest than I do with hammer or augments.

The spec needs a distinct identity. Going more into auras or rapid attunement switching (since the orbs last for such a stupidly short duration) would be a mistake - the way tempest and weaver handles those is great. If they want the spec to focus on combos they need to provide more fields and finishers on hammer itself. Half of hammer's skills feel like they should be finishers (or fields) but aren't - especially hammer 2.

The hammer #3 projectiles really feel like they should be an F mechanic to open up the third skill slot on hammer and so you can use them in other weapon sets.

Exactly this. I said this almost verbatim in the betas and it's still relevant. It's got too many competing and even contradictory ideas, crammed in to an already complex class. It feels like leftover ideas from Weaver and Tempest smushed together without rhyme or reason and it inherently lacks the tools to make any of them work.

Anet keeps making the exact same mistakes with Ele. They start in previews with "Lets make it something new" then at launch it's always "Glass cannon! Look at the damage". Then they nerf it to hell because that level of damage is bad for the game and ele's are left with the same thing every time. Piano class with high risk/mediocre reward.

 

Every time.

[Winchester Smythe Anus III.2153]

Over 250 votes and more than 2/3rds voted hammer as bad or terrible. And that was before the recent nerfs.

With this level of bad feedback, people should be getting fired. You don't belong in game design if 2/3rds of your customer base hate your work.

 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Winchester Smythe Anus III.2153

[scerevisiae.1972]

On 4/3/2022 at 8:42 PM, Winchester Smythe Anus III.2153 said:

Over 250 votes and more than 2/3rds voted hammer as bad or terrible. And that was before the recent nerfs.

With this level of bad feedback, people should be getting fired. You don't belong in game design if 2/3rds of your customer base hate your work.

 

Harsh but fair

[iKeostuKen.2738]

Hate the idea of a melee hammer. But playing a cele hammer build I'm making it work. Even though I could swap out any weapon with hammer and be more efficient.

[Kuma.1503]

Honestly, 9.5/10 in terms of fun factor. 

This is the most fun elite spec in the game in my opinion. 

Mind you, I was a core condi engi main for the longest time before Mechanist came out, so I'm one of the odd players who enjoys piano gameplay. 

The only thing keeping this from being a 10/10 for me is the energy mechanic. I wouldn't mind it if we started from full and then had to manage it in combat. I get that we have it so we can't just drop spheres on CD at no cost, but having to build this up at the start of combat before we can start our rotation is just clunky. 

It feels less like I'm interacting with a class mechanic and more like busy work. "Make sure you fill your bar before you can play the game"!

Edited May 6, 2022 by Kuma.1503
life is a simulation

[SeTect.5918]

45 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Honestly, 9/10. 

This is the most fun elite spec in the game in my opinion. 

Mind you, I was a core condi engi main for the longest time before Mechanist came out, so I'm one of the odd players who enjoys piano gameplay. 

The only thing keeping this from being a 10/10 for me is the energy mechanic. I wouldn't mind it if we started from full and then had to manage it in combat. I get that we have it so we can't just drop spheres on CD at no cost, but having to build this up at the start of combat before we can start our rotation is just clunky. 

It feels less like I'm interacting with a class mechanic and more like busy work. "Make sure you fill your bar before you can play the game"!

I feel the same about the piano gameplay. My top 3 fav e specs before eod release were:
1. Condi Weaver
2. Condi Holo
3. Power Chrono

All have a fairly high skill floor and ceiling.
Currently also loving Catalyst.

However I would never give it a 9/10 because there are more things lacking than the energy.

I would give it...something like a 6.5/10.

Reason for this:

I really love the gameplay of hammer. Even tho I didnt want hammer, I crafted juggernaut for it and i really fell in love with it, even more since orbs got (almost) fixed.
Its nice that almost (yes, I am looking at you Air 4) all weapon skills are useful on hammer and the animations are also really nice.

But what makes it only a 6.5/10 for me is that it doesnt feel like an own e spec. It feels like a scrapper killed a tempest and weaver and wvw and mixed the scrap and it turned out as catalyst.

1. Most traits are aura traits and some are attunement swap traits and some are dodge traits. Its a mix of everything. imo they just shouldve went for combos instead of auras, then it wouldnt feel like something we already have.
2. There is almost no synergy between hammer and the traits because hammer has almost no ccs and no auras at all (except if we count that single one leap finisher combo). Which makes access to Elemental Empowerment very limited. Same for the other stacking effects on traits.
3. As you said, the energy mechanic is useless.
4. The e spec again fully relies on active sustain, which makes the open world build pretty strong (like the one for weaver) but makes the dps build 100% squishy (like the one for weaver).
5. The hammer is fully useless in wvw.
6. The hammer lacks in Fire fields, which makes it difficult to keep up a specific trait in fire traitline thats there for all power builds. (Persisting_Flames)
7. The elite augment is trash, I dont want to be forced to use that 3 minute CD conjure greatsword....

And one point thats important but didnt influence my opinion:
Hammer is the only weapon without access to transmute aura which disables the 2nd effect of Smothering_Auras for hammer fully.
But to be honest thats also the case with Persisting_Flames because if hammer is the only weapon without fire fields, how would you increase the duration of these fields, right?

So the synergy between hammer and catalyst isnt the only thing lacking, but also the synergy between hammer and core ele.

However all this made me give the e spec 6.5/10 even if i really like it and currently main it.

But I am sure some of the points will be done soon (hopefully) but until then its a 6.5 from me.

Edited May 4, 2022 by SeTect.5918

[Kuma.1503]

29 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

I feel the same about the piano gameplay. My top 3 fav e specs before eod release were:
1. Condi Weaver
2. Condi Holo
3. Power Chrono

All have a fairly high skill floor and ceiling.
Currently also loving Catalyst.

However I would never give it a 9/10 because there are more things lacking than the energy.

I would give it...something like a 6.5/10.

Reason for this:

I really love the gameplay of hammer. Even tho I didnt want hammer, I crafted juggernaut for it and i really fell in love with it, even more since orbs got (almost) fixed.
Its nice that almost (yes, I am looking at you Air 4) all weapon skills are useful on hammer and the animations are also really nice.

But what makes it only a 6.5/10 for me is that it doesnt feel like an own e spec. It feels like a scrapper killed a tempest and weaver and wvw and mixed the scrap and it turned out as catalyst.

1. Most traits are aura traits and some are attunement swap traits and some are dodge traits. Its a mix of everything. imo they just shouldve went for combos instead of auras, then it wouldnt feel like something we already have.
2. There is almost no synergy between hammer and the traits because hammer has almost no ccs and no auras at all (except if we count that single one leap finisher combo). Which makes access to Elemental Empowerment very limited. Same for the other stacking effects on traits.
3. As you said, the energy mechanic is useless.
4. The e spec again fully relies on active sustain, which makes the open world build pretty strong (like the one for weaver) but makes the dps build 100% squishy (like the one for weaver).
5. The hammer is fully useless in wvw.
6. The hammer lacks in Fire fields, which makes it difficult to keep up a specific trait in fire traitline thats there for all power builds. (Persisting_Flames)
7. The elite augment is trash, I dont want to be forced to use that 3 minute CD conjure greatsword....

And one point thats important but didnt influence my opinion:
Hammer is the only weapon without access to transmute aura which disables the 2nd effect of Smothering_Auras for hammer fully.
But to be honest thats also the case with Persisting_Flames because if hammer is the only weapon without fire fields, how would you increase the duration of these fields, right?

So the synergy between hammer and catalyst isnt the only thing lacking, but also the synergy between hammer and core ele.

However all this made me give the e spec 6.5/10 even if i really like it and currently main it.

But I am sure some of the points will be done soon (hopefully) but until then its a 6.5 from me.

Good post. 

The rating in my post was pretty vague and doesn't entirely encapsulate my thoughts about the spec. My rating was weighted heavily towards fun factor and not towards design, trait syenrgy, ect. 

In terms of pure fun factor, Catalyst is a solid 9.5/10, with the energy mechanic being the only real painpoint.

Weapon design gets a 8.5/10. With the orb change, hammer feels much better to use.

I deduct 1.5 points for a few reasons. 

 Air 4 is clunky to use. I don't like having to knock myself back to help with break bars. This can even get you killed. Or stuck in walls...

Air 2 should REALLY be a whirl finisher. It also bothers me that you spin around so quickly, yet your hammer isn't a hitbox. 

Earth 2 is literally called whirling stones, yet it isn't a whirl finisher. If that's somehow too many finishers for one weapon, remove the whirl finisher from water 5.

In terms of trait design, it gets a 5/10. There's a LOT that I would change. I agree with the first point you made about traits. I made a more in-depth in the feedback thread about how I would rework these traits. The main idea behind the changes was to rework these into combo-oriented traits.

I agree with everything else your post except for point 7. The versatility of the elite augment cannot be understated. It's not the highest dps option for PvE because Greatsword is better, but there are some useful applications like doubling up your sustain or your breakbar damage. 

For example, taking this means you can afford to use your water skills aggressively. If you need to use them for active sustain, you can pop the elite for a quick refresh. 

I would reduce its cooldown to 60 seconds. Put it on par with Bladesworn's elite since they serve similar purposes. The extra value from the shorter cooldown should let it compete against Flaming GS better in instanced content.

Either that, or have it perform an effect based on the sphere its casted in instead of giving useless boons you already have perma uptime on anyway. For example:

Fire Sphere: deal 20% more damage

Water Sphere: 30 seconds less cooldown

Earth Sphere: Go invuln for 3 seconds

Air Sphere: Remove movement impairing condis and Gain Superspeed for 7 seconds

Edited May 4, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[Infinity.2876]

Hammer? What wizard would in their sane mind thinks 'oh boy I'm really good at bonking things on head '?

Also "catalyst" sounds like an engineer elite spec not an elementalist.

Mostly catalyst is being played as basically core.

1/10 folks 1/10.

It's hard not to sound like a whiner when I talk about it.

Edited May 4, 2022 by Infinity.2876