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What is next ? (Story)


Fivona.5061

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4 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Congrats, you once again invoked hostility where there was none originally instead of considering that it was possible the way you phrased things could be misread (as literally everyone, myself included, can and have and will do). Perhaps you should consider that others - and not just myself - could interpret your words of "for LW and Xpack maps since PoF " and "same content release" as including separate episodes within the same season as different "content releases".

But I see we're back to just interpreting whatever I say as hostility to you and that I must be undeniably wrong. Or did we never even leave it?

That said, I feel that Labyrinthine Cliffs - originally introduced in Season 1 - still counts as "separate content release" even if brought back in S4 given it's a festival map available to F2P players. But you have fun as interpreting all I say as hostility to you. ūüĎć

Well, I mistakenly thought this topic was to promote people to discuss their ideas of what could be fun and enjoyable to explore in the future, but this topic has become a place for him to trash and burn anyone's desires for the game while promoting his own.

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9 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

No, you invoked hostility first with that reply, wording it the way you did, and jumping to conclusions that weren't actually stated in the original post.

Given that its only you who "misunderstands" my posts, and that they are always paired with some form of personal attack, you have made it impossible to trust when you say it was a misunderstanding. If you had any sort of question about what someone posted you could have gone "Did you mean X", to show questioning, instead of just directly attacking them.

There is this word you may not have heard of called context. Context informs the meaning, and intent, behind words and actions. If the context of your post is clearly an attack I will treat it as such, if it isn't then I wont.

I'm not sure how you think people work, but people are not just robots programmed to react the same way to everything. This preconceived notion that they are would explain why you have so many issues.

Now stop trying to derail yet another thread with this nonsense.

I'm sorry, but this whole thing exploded because I said something innocent about desiring to explore more of the other cultures of Tyria other than human. You then dissected my exact examples as if they were criminally evil proposals desiring to fully destroy any possibility of my ideas being valid. Konig came in and tried to give some reason as to why their could be room to make some of those stories work. But sure, he's the hostile individual. He's the one trashing people's wishes and desires to give himself an ego boost. I don't know why I continue to read these forums...

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8 minutes ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

I'm sorry, but this whole thing exploded because I said something innocent about desiring to explore more of the other cultures of Tyria other than human. You then dissected my exact examples as if they were criminally evil proposals desiring to fully destroy any possibility of my ideas being valid. Konig came in and tried to give some reason as to why their could be room to make some of those stories work. But sure, he's the hostile individual. He's the one trashing people's wishes and desires to give himself an ego boost. I don't know why I continue to read these forums...

For what it’s worth a lot of people have the same desires as you, myself included. I feel there’s still plenty of exploration we can do with the asura and norn in particular, and getting some maps that hypothetically explore those cultures more could be awesome. Not just to get more of a look at the cultures pre-dragonrise, but to focus on stories for asura and norn characters in such a context. There are plenty of compelling stories that could be told about the political and cultural lives of these races as the current status quo mingles with the old. What do we do now that the dragons are gone? That’s a question I think each nation will be asking in the future and it’s worth examining.

 

Generally, I’d also love to see Jhavi, Myrun, Knut, and his family get more screen time. I’d love to see more of the Arcane Council/their politics, or Zojja, and Kuda. It would be really interesting to find new communities of surviving asura and norn that fled elsewhere and developed differently over the past few hundred years. There’s development and insight there for characters and their cultures too. Let’s see how different and similar the norn we know are to the norn we find? How could that influence or change the culture of Hoelbrek norn? Could go in plenty of interesting directions.

 

Also think there are plenty to sylvari and charr stories we could get too by zeroing in on their governments and factions. Particularly interested in learning more about Duchess Crysanthea and Leivas, get an update on Malyck, and see Laranthir get some screen time. The political situation for charr post-war will be interesting for sure, and I’d love to see them hold Bangar accountable. More Crecia in general is a great thing imo. I enjoyed her in Icebrood Saga. Let’s see how Mia Kindleshot is handling things?

 

Suffice to say there’s plenty of ways to explore the non-human races, plenty of new stories to tell about them, and I hope it’s on the docket!

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11 minutes ago, Zola.6197 said:

Suffice to say there’s plenty of ways to explore the non-human races, plenty of new stories to tell about them, and I hope it’s on the docket!

Given that we've seen the Inquest all around Tyria, and in Elona as well, I could see a major Inquest base somewhere in Cantha to round it out. Now that we've faced all the Elder Dragons, dealt with their magic, we could see the Inquest's final form of their "Subject Alpha" monster. Possibly wrap up the Inquest plot once and for since they are the only racial enemy group really around in a way that makes them a credible threat.

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37 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Pointing out issues with ideas is a fundamental part of any actual discussion. That is not making them out to be criminally evil, or attempting to "fully destroy" any possibility of them. That's just basic discussion. If you don't have that you don't have a discussion, just a circle jerk.

If someone proposed that Jennah and Anise were secretly Lyssa, Konig pointing out how that doesn't make sense in any number of ways would be no different.

You don't know the full context behind Konig and I's interactions. Hes point blank admitted to stalking me on other forums, my comments weren't off a singular interaction, but an established trend far beyond this topic.

You are right, I can only guess at your beef with Konig, the only experience I can go off of is my own. Knowing that everytime I see your name on these forums I expect to see some form of harsh criticism with little to no positive feedback, or long fights off topic.

12 minutes ago, Zola.6197 said:

For what it’s worth a lot of people have the same desires as you, myself included. I feel there’s still plenty of exploration we can do with the asura and norn in particular, and getting some maps that hypothetically explore those cultures more could be awesome. Not just to get more of a look at the cultures pre-dragonrise, but to focus on stories for asura and norn characters in such a context. There are plenty of compelling stories that could be told about the political and cultural lives of these races as the current status quo mingles with the old. What do we do now that the dragons are gone? That’s a question I think each nation will be asking in the future and it’s worth examining.

 

Generally, I’d also love to see Jhavi, Myrun, Knut, and his family get more screen time. I’d love to see more of the Arcane Council/their politics, or Zojja, and Kuda. It would be really interesting to find new communities of surviving asura and norn that fled elsewhere and developed differently over the past few hundred years. There’s development and insight there for characters and their cultures too. Let’s see how different and similar the norn we know are to the norn we find? How could that influence or change the culture of Hoelbrek norn? Could go in plenty of interesting directions.

 

Also think there are plenty to sylvari and charr stories we could get too by zeroing in on their governments and factions. Particularly interested in learning more about Duchess Crysanthea and Leivas, get an update on Malyck, and see Laranthir get some screen time. The political situation for charr post-war will be interesting for sure, and I’d love to see them hold Bangar accountable. More Crecia in general is a great thing imo. I enjoyed her in Icebrood Saga. Let’s see how Mia Kindleshot is handling things?

 

Suffice to say there’s plenty of ways to explore the non-human races, plenty of new stories to tell about them, and I hope it’s on the docket!

Thank you, I hope that we get to see these fun things as well.

Edited by Narcemus.1348
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57 minutes ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

You don't know the full context behind Konig and I's interactions. Hes point blank admitted to stalking me on other forums, my comments weren't off a singular interaction, but an established trend far beyond this topic.

Saying that you randomly replied to one of my posts on reddit (to clarify: that you initiated, and the only reason I knew it was you was because of your username) with the same exact attitude you display here is not me stalking you on other forums.

News flash, I don't care about you, so stop twisting words and giving false narratives.

 

EDIT: Whatever you say, moving on. I'll go back to trying to fully ignoring you even as you keep pestering me with "you're wrong"s.

Edited by Konig Des Todes.2086
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10 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Saying that you randomly replied to one of my posts on reddit (to clarify: that you initiated, and the only reason I knew it was you was because of your username) with the same exact attitude you display here is not me stalking you on other forums.

News flash, I don't care about you, so stop twisting words and giving false narratives.

This isn't what I was even talking about. The irony of your last comment is palpable.

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To put things back on the rails of the topic here are my desires for the game in no particular order.

 

- I want to further explore norn culture, especially those who are out hunting in the furthest wilds and never really started domesticating like the Hoelbrak norn

 

- I want to see what a thriving community of Kodan looks like. One with a still living Claw and Voice with a full and vibrant culture to explore (not just refugees).

 

- I want to see what may still exist of ancient dwarven ruins underground, even if they have to exist in locations that we did not know of in Guild Wars 1 (there were theories of a dwarven presence in the Echovald after all).

 

- I want to see fallen cities of the Asura, again even if they are not in locations that we knew of in Guild Wars 1. I want to see how the Asura culture changed from their below ground life to above.

 

- I want to see more of the Charr lands perhaps the remaining citadels or what land the Flame Legion will take to make the new Flame Citadel.

 

- I want to see quaggan cities below the waves.

 

- I want to see the largos civilization, whatever that may entail.

 

There's probably more, obviously there are the unknown lands, the deep sea terrors, the krait obelisks, the Isle of Janthir and much more. I feel like any of these things that build upon the existing would be fun things to explore and they are some of my greatest desires for the game.

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54 minutes ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

 

- I want to see quaggan cities below the waves.

 

- I want to see the largos civilization, whatever that may entail.

 

There's probably more, obviously there are the unknown lands, the deep sea terrors, the krait obelisks, the Isle of Janthir and much more. I feel like any of these things that build upon the existing would be fun things to explore and they are some of my greatest desires for the game.

Big yes to Largos cities, hell, I’ll even take ruins.

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3 hours ago, Zola.6197 said:

Suffice to say there’s plenty of ways to explore the non-human races, plenty of new stories to tell about them, and I hope it’s on the docket!

 

I'd really love it if the spotlight shined more on the Sylvari for a bit. We've not heard from the Pale Tree since HoT. Did we ever learn if she recovered from the Modrem attack? It feels like their entire racial narrative was just dropped in favor of the White Mantle when there REALLY should have been massive society level fallback from the Modremoth revelation. Not to mention that we never found Malyck's tree.

 

An interesting way to do this could be to pick back up the Nightmare Court as antagonists. We know at least some of the Modrem that used to be Sylvari returned to their normal state of mind but are riddled with trauma. That seems to be the ideal sort of recruit the Nightmare Court would go after. Sylvari who feel they can't return to the Pale Tree. Maybe Sylvari who are afraid their memories won't be welcome in the Dream and have turned to the Nightmare for some kind of solace.

 

The Nightmare Court experiencing a resurgence due to having towering Modrem Guard and wrangling various non-sapient Modrem species under their control could be really interesting. The Sylvari we know who converted from being a Modrem returned to their Sylvari form, but that isn't necessarily a thing they are required to do. I could see some keeping their enhanced combat forms in a sort of "I've accepted the monster inside me" mentality fostered by the Nightmare's ideology.

 

Some of the "saved" Modrem could've been from other trees. This would kick off a race between the Commander and the Nightmare Court to find the other trees and sway them to their side.

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8 hours ago, Ehecatl.9172 said:

We've not heard from the Pale Tree since HoT.

Actually we have. The "Night of Thorn" side story set after HoT has us restore Caladbolg, which puts the Pale Tree on the Path of Recovery, and during Icebrood Saga the Sylvari representative mentions the Pale Tree has been recovering over the years. There were one or two conversations between HoT and IBS to the same effect.

Edited by Sajuuk Khar.1509
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9 hours ago, Ehecatl.9172 said:

 

I'd really love it if the spotlight shined more on the Sylvari for a bit. We've not heard from the Pale Tree since HoT. Did we ever learn if she recovered from the Modrem attack? It feels like their entire racial narrative was just dropped in favor of the White Mantle when there REALLY should have been massive society level fallback from the Modremoth revelation. Not to mention that we never found Malyck's tree.

 

An interesting way to do this could be to pick back up the Nightmare Court as antagonists. We know at least some of the Modrem that used to be Sylvari returned to their normal state of mind but are riddled with trauma. That seems to be the ideal sort of recruit the Nightmare Court would go after. Sylvari who feel they can't return to the Pale Tree. Maybe Sylvari who are afraid their memories won't be welcome in the Dream and have turned to the Nightmare for some kind of solace.

 

The Nightmare Court experiencing a resurgence due to having towering Modrem Guard and wrangling various non-sapient Modrem species under their control could be really interesting. The Sylvari we know who converted from being a Modrem returned to their Sylvari form, but that isn't necessarily a thing they are required to do. I could see some keeping their enhanced combat forms in a sort of "I've accepted the monster inside me" mentality fostered by the Nightmare's ideology.

 

Some of the "saved" Modrem could've been from other trees. This would kick off a race between the Commander and the Nightmare Court to find the other trees and sway them to their side.

 

Honestly, if the nightmare court returned as a major force I'd want them to do a slight bit of retconning for them.

Mainly, make it so the "Driven to spread nightmare constantly." and "Can never return from it/all virtues are brutally tortured out of every recruit" things were part of Mordremoth's sleeping influence, and with him dead they fade away. Give the Nightmare court a chance to be a range from "Alt culture" to "Pure evil" Let them set up their own towns away from the Pale tree and live their lives without being a pure and only evil faction that we end up having to kill.

 

The whole "Hate sylvari" thing was already done in Season 1, with the attack of LA. Afterwards there was a heavy anti-sylvari attitude that drenched the city and surrounding area because of Scarlet, and later with the call it's implied that distance was a factor, with those beyond the jungle not being affected as much by it.

 

Your idea is nice, but the Court's current writing makes it hard to imagine them being brought back as something other then "To wipe out." due to their pure evil status, massive torture of all recruits, and general being hostile to.. well everything. I think if we have them actively aligned or controlling Mordrem it'd only make wiping them out more important.

Though IIRC, they viewed Mordremoth as worse then the Pale Tree, so they may not even like Mordrem or those that turned, seeing them as weak because of it?

 

I think it'd be nice to pop back and see how the various places are doing, as GW2 tends to not bog down the story with irrelevant details happening across the world. Long ago I answered "How would you rewrite the court?" with what I said above, make the pure evil, constantly spread part of Mordremoth, and when that's removed they are freed to choose their path.

Edit: I mean this as I'd love to dabble back with the Sylvari, and maybe Nightmare court, but I don't want to return to them only to wipe them out as a faction/major power.

Edited by Kalavier.1097
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8 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

 

Honestly, if the nightmare court returned as a major force I'd want them to do a slight bit of retconning for them.

Mainly, make it so the "Driven to spread nightmare constantly." and "Can never return from it/all virtues are brutally tortured out of every recruit" things were part of Mordremoth's sleeping influence, and with him dead they fade away. Give the Nightmare court a chance to be a range from "Alt culture" to "Pure evil" Let them set up their own towns away from the Pale tree and live their lives without being a pure and only evil faction that we end up having to kill.

 

The whole "Hate sylvari" thing was already done in Season 1, with the attack of LA. Afterwards there was a heavy anti-sylvari attitude that drenched the city and surrounding area because of Scarlet, and later with the call it's implied that distance was a factor, with those beyond the jungle not being affected as much by it.

 

Your idea is nice, but the Court's current writing makes it hard to imagine them being brought back as something other then "To wipe out." due to their pure evil status, massive torture of all recruits, and general being hostile to.. well everything. I think if we have them actively aligned or controlling Mordrem it'd only make wiping them out more important.

Though IIRC, they viewed Mordremoth as worse then the Pale Tree, so they may not even like Mordrem or those that turned, seeing them as weak because of it?

 

I think it'd be nice to pop back and see how the various places are doing, as GW2 tends to not bog down the story with irrelevant details happening across the world. Long ago I answered "How would you rewrite the court?" with what I said above, make the pure evil, constantly spread part of Mordremoth, and when that's removed they are freed to choose their path.

Edit: I mean this as I'd love to dabble back with the Sylvari, and maybe Nightmare court, but I don't want to return to them only to wipe them out as a faction/major power.

 

One thing Anet could do is to at the very least have more plot involving Dream and Nightmare in themselves, as in what the hell are they as far as landscapes in the Mists go, why do Sylvari come from there (and especially why do they not come from there, AKA Malyck). There is no need to have the Nightmare Court be put into an immediate state of antagonism to Tyria nor do we need to use the Mordremoth card if Anet makes it a journey of discovery for all Sylvari - I suspect the reason we have no updates at all from the Pale Tree is because they kind of know they have to deal with this plot eventually, so hopefully we may get some actual answers for the origin of Sylvari during LS6. It's a playable race after all, give us something!

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10 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Honestly, if the nightmare court returned as a major force I'd want them to do a slight bit of retconning for them.

Mainly, make it so the "Driven to spread nightmare constantly." and "Can never return from it/all virtues are brutally tortured out of every recruit" things were part of Mordremoth's sleeping influence, and with him dead they fade away. Give the Nightmare court a chance to be a range from "Alt culture" to "Pure evil" Let them set up their own towns away from the Pale tree and live their lives without being a pure and only evil faction that we end up having to kill.

Honestly, I'd rather they didn't do this. They can set up other groups - like a 'post-Mordrem Guard' organization - to fill that kind of role. I much prefer the notion that the Nightmare was distinctly separate from mrodremoth's influence and that's why Nightmare Courtiers were still opposing dragons, even Mordremoth. If Nightmare = Mordremoth's influence (by this point esp. with HoT) then that wouldn't make sense.

There's been enough plot holes, and the sylvari deserve to be more than a coinflip species where you're either Dreamer or Courtier.

 

That said, I wouldn't say the Nightmare Court hold a "pure evil status" given both Gavin and Duchess Chrysanthea, and I don't think you need to retcon the Nightmare into being Mordremoth's influence to expand on Courtiers who are like them - evil but not wholly heartless or incapable of being not-evil for a bit.

I do think returning to the Nightmare plot would result in the Court's destruction, but that doesn't mean they'd be a pure evil group throughout it all.

Edited by Konig Des Todes.2086
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2 hours ago, maxwelgm.4315 said:

One thing Anet could do is to at the very least have more plot involving Dream and Nightmare in themselves, as in what the hell are they as far as landscapes in the Mists go, why do Sylvari come from there (and especially why do they not come from there, AKA Malyck). There is no need to have the Nightmare Court be put into an immediate state of antagonism to Tyria nor do we need to use the Mordremoth card if Anet makes it a journey of discovery for all Sylvari - I suspect the reason we have no updates at all from the Pale Tree is because they kind of know they have to deal with this plot eventually, so hopefully we may get some actual answers for the origin of Sylvari during LS6. It's a playable race after all, give us something!

The Dream and Nightmare are not places in the Mists, nor do the Sylvari come from those locations.

The Sylvari come directly from the Pale Tree, or in Malyck's case his tree. The Dream and Nightmare are a collective unconscious, a shared mindscape, that holds that all Sylvari memories, and experiences, that all Sylvari from the Pale Tree share in. Its not a physical place.

I've suspected it may be some offshoot of the hivemind each Elder Dragon has with its minions. Though, due to the Pale Tree's disconnection from Mordremoth, its developed on its own. Or possbily due to the Pale Tree's connection to Tyria(literally as a giant plant) its a manifestation of the world's unconscious. Which is why Mordremoth can tap into it, and affect it, like he does, but it isn't his to entirely control. The introduction of mindscapes created by Soo-Won, and Aurene, in EoD, may support this.

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5 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

The Dream and Nightmare are not places in the Mists, nor do the Sylvari come from those locations.

The Sylvari come directly from the Pale Tree, or in Malyck's case his tree. The Dream and Nightmare are a collective unconscious, a shared mindscape, that holds that all Sylvari memories, and experiences, that all Sylvari from the Pale Tree share in. Its not a physical place.

I've suspected it may be some offshoot of the hivemind each Elder Dragon has with its minions. Though, due to the Pale Tree's disconnection from Mordremoth, its developed on its own. Or possbily due to the Pale Tree's connection to Tyria(literally as a giant plant) its a manifestation of the world's unconscious. Which is why Mordremoth can tap into it, and affect it, like he does, but it isn't his to entirely control. The introduction of mindscapes created by Soo-Won, and Aurene, in EoD, may support this.

What's most interesting about this whole scenario is why the heck does Malyck's tree not have a dream or a nightmare. It seems so odd that both trees don't have the same sort of hive mind scenario.

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29 minutes ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

What's most interesting about this whole scenario is why the heck does Malyck's tree not have a dream or a nightmare. It seems so odd that both trees don't have the same sort of hive mind scenario.

Maybe the distance from Mordremoth affected it?

The Pale Tree was planted far enough away from Mordremoth that, when the dragon awoke, its mind powers couldn't just dominate all the Sylvari there due to distance. Malyck's tree was much closer to Mordremoth(at least planned to be in HoT) so maybe it wasn't able to develop its own "hivemind" like the Pale Tree did. We know the dragon's mental powers work even while asleep, and the mental corruption persists even after death. So maybe it was still more connected to the dragon in some way, though obviously not under its complete influence.

That or Anet could pull a "the Pale Tree was planted on a ley line nexus and this gave it a connection to Tyira yada yada".

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15 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

 

Honestly, if the nightmare court returned as a major force I'd want them to do a slight bit of retconning for them.

Mainly, make it so the "Driven to spread nightmare constantly." and "Can never return from it/all virtues are brutally tortured out of every recruit" things were part of Mordremoth's sleeping influence, and with him dead they fade away. Give the Nightmare court a chance to be a range from "Alt culture" to "Pure evil" Let them set up their own towns away from the Pale tree and live their lives without being a pure and only evil faction that we end up having to kill.

 

Edit: I mean this as I'd love to dabble back with the Sylvari, and maybe Nightmare court, but I don't want to return to them only to wipe them out as a faction/major power.

 

I get that. I wouldn't want them totally wiped out either. More of a re-occurring foe like the Inquest gets to be. I seriously doubt we'll ever totally get rid of the Inquest. They're ultimately just a darker sub-group of Asura, so destroying their labs and killing their leaders won't ever totally destroy the organization so long as asura with dubious morals still exist.

 

I'd have it be the same for the Nightmare Court. You can kill their leaders and destroy their bases but there will always be Sylvari who are touched by the Nightmare. It is just a part of their nature as a species now with each individual Sylvari feeling that pull between the Dream and the Nightmare and choosing for themselves.

 

That said I wouldn't mind seeing more of a range in the Nightmare Court's behavior. Not all of them need to be sadists, and I wouldn't mind the whole "can never return from the Nightmare" thing was proven false. Nobody has returned from the Nightmare's embrace YET.

 

I could see them taking on former Modrem as actually being able to show the Court's kinder side. These Sylvari are broken and in need of healing. They can't exist in polite Sylvari society anymore because their trauma makes them incompatible with Ventari's teachings and actively pollutes the Dream. So the Nightmare Court offers them a home where they can live alongside other "broken" Sylvari. Feeding the Nightmare, yes, but also having a life again.

 

The more extremist Nightmare Courtiers seek to create pain and suffering to feed the Nightmare unnaturally, but life is already full of pain and misery. The more neutral courtiers, and the ones that can settle down and form communities, would be composed of Sylvari who got their pain from living an unfortunate life and who explicitly don't want to impose their suffering on every other Sylvari who walks by but don't want to fully sever themselves from the Dream like Soundless do.

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10 hours ago, Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:

Maybe the distance from Mordremoth affected it?

The Pale Tree was planted far enough away from Mordremoth that, when the dragon awoke, its mind powers couldn't just dominate all the Sylvari there due to distance.

 

 

It's implied that distance had a factor, with those in the jungle being directly hit by the call and the further away the less powerful it was.

 

10 hours ago, Ehecatl.9172 said:

 

I get that. I wouldn't want them totally wiped out either. More of a re-occurring foe like the Inquest gets to be. I seriously doubt we'll ever totally get rid of the Inquest. They're ultimately just a darker sub-group of Asura, so destroying their labs and killing their leaders won't ever totally destroy the organization so long as asura with dubious morals still exist.

 

I'd have it be the same for the Nightmare Court. You can kill their leaders and destroy their bases but there will always be Sylvari who are touched by the Nightmare. It is just a part of their nature as a species now with each individual Sylvari feeling that pull between the Dream and the Nightmare and choosing for themselves.

 

That said I wouldn't mind seeing more of a range in the Nightmare Court's behavior. Not all of them need to be sadists, and I wouldn't mind the whole "can never return from the Nightmare" thing was proven false. Nobody has returned from the Nightmare's embrace YET.

 

I could see them taking on former Modrem as actually being able to show the Court's kinder side. These Sylvari are broken and in need of healing. They can't exist in polite Sylvari society anymore because their trauma makes them incompatible with Ventari's teachings and actively pollutes the Dream. So the Nightmare Court offers them a home where they can live alongside other "broken" Sylvari. Feeding the Nightmare, yes, but also having a life again.

 

The more extremist Nightmare Courtiers seek to create pain and suffering to feed the Nightmare unnaturally, but life is already full of pain and misery. The more neutral courtiers, and the ones that can settle down and form communities, would be composed of Sylvari who got their pain from living an unfortunate life and who explicitly don't want to impose their suffering on every other Sylvari who walks by but don't want to fully sever themselves from the Dream like Soundless do.

 

This is what I want really. Which is why I say link the "Can never return" or "Forced to always want to spread nightmare" being Mordremoth seeping in. The nightmare is X, but Mordremoth's personality poked in. This ties back to the original lore about Faolin and Caithe both experiencing some darkness/evil, where Faolin embraced it, Caithe rejected it.

 

You could even tie it back to the original court's founder. His goal wasn't at first "CAUSE DESPAIR AND PAIN." but to break free of the tablet. IIRC it was spawned from seeing the firstborn not react to the Asura in a strong way, and then later they stopped him from destroying a Krait hatchery he found, and he knew they'd grow up to be a danger. He simply wanted to allow the Sylvari to develop their own culture and perspectives without being shackled to the tablet's teachings. Faolin took over the court afterwards, broke him, and the nightmare court became what it is today.

 

So you have the court split into groups. The ones we know and love to stab today, who are violent, torturing individuals to break and convert them, etc. And ones who simply leave to go start their own community far from the pale tree and figure out their own way. Could even use that old area transition portal in Brisbane to do it lol.  These ones, as you said, could be used to accept the confused reverted Mordrem who simply can't feel like they fit in or would function at the Grove or in society.

 

16 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Honestly, I'd rather they didn't do this. They can set up other groups - like a 'post-Mordrem Guard' organization - to fill that kind of role. I much prefer the notion that the Nightmare was distinctly separate from mrodremoth's influence and that's why Nightmare Courtiers were still opposing dragons, even Mordremoth. If Nightmare = Mordremoth's influence (by this point esp. with HoT) then that wouldn't make sense.

There's been enough plot holes, and the sylvari deserve to be more than a coinflip species where you're either Dreamer or Courtier.

 

As said above, I don't mean that nightmare is all mordremoth. Just that his sleeping influence corrupted part of it (The Shadow of the Dragon being him, not Zhaitan, as that same type of creature is what he uses to attack the pale tree) and when removed, disables the "You can never return from Nightmare" aspect and/or the "Is driven to spread nightmare all the time." So they reject mordremoth because they hate control, and by removing his influence over the Sylvari entirely, both dreamer and courtier are freed.

 

As it is, the Sylvari are all dreamer or courtier. If you aren't part of the court, you are a dreamer (or the small population of soundless)

16 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

That said, I wouldn't say the Nightmare Court hold a "pure evil status" given both Gavin and Duchess Chrysanthea, and I don't think you need to retcon the Nightmare into being Mordremoth's influence to expand on Courtiers who are like them - evil but not wholly heartless or incapable of being not-evil for a bit.

I do think returning to the Nightmare plot would result in the Court's destruction, but that doesn't mean they'd be a pure evil group throughout it all.

 

I mean, the Duchess we know nothing about and was only present for a single instance. And Gavin appeared nice to people he thought he could recruit (Sylvari only) as he viewed anybody else as prey to kill. When the PC rejects him, he declares that sadly they must die.

 

All ties into the fact to join the court they torture and strip people of all virtues and anything good, twisting them into a new persona. This combo with the "Can never return from it." makes them unique compared to the other bad guy factions, which people can leave (though some are riskier then others). As well as us seeing how certain groups can change their course, I ponder if going back to the same old Nightmare court that can't change from it's desires would really feel great.

 

We see the Flame Legion reform from their evil ways into something new. Jade brotherhood and speakers both react to the finale of EoD with "We can't promise anything but... we have a lot to consider." even talking about leaving each other's territory. Awoken we got to see transform entirely into a force for good. etc.

 

Anyway, to prevent too long of a post. One thing that would be nice to do (And we got map space for it) is after we do whatever we do in Cantha (I feel it's obvious we are visiting raisu palace soon lol), we could revisit Orr. The central/south parts of it, as part of a cleansing operation. Show the landmass healing further, the Risen getting cleared out. Or if that's too much of a rehash of Siren's landing, let's go to Dominion of the Winds. Finally show those walls opening up with the Tengu from Cantha proving they aren't the last (cause the Maguuma Tengu were hostile to all) and things aren't so dire.

edit: Or hell, since Jalis was brought up in another topic. We could explore what has become of the old races. The Dwarves have returned to the surface (at least a sizable force of them), we could learn what happened to Jalis, is he still alive? See the stone dwarves returning entirely to the surface to rebuild their homes or build a new home. Hell, maybe toy with the stone ritual fading or searching for a way to revert it, now that the Destroyers are gone. Allow the dwarves to reproduce and rejoin the world.

Edited by Kalavier.1097
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4 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

(The Shadow of the Dragon being him, not Zhaitan, as that same type of creature is what he uses to attack the pale tree)

Regarding this, it's left ambiguous whether the Shadow of the Dragon was always Mordremoth or whether it was something that Mordremoth copied (given that's his whole thing) to demoralize the sylvari.

Early HoT drafts were going to establish that Nightmare == Mordremoth's influence through and through, and this foreshadowing is apparent throughout S2, but later HoT drafts revert this and show the Nightmare Court fighting Mordremoth's influence.

And, imo, that "Nightmare Courtiers are fighting Mordremoth's influence in HoT" rather prevents the whole "they cannot return and want to spread Nightmare is all because of Mordremoth perverted the Nightmare" without requiring loops to jump through.

Besides that, once you get rid of the "cannot revert and isn't driven to spread it", you rather lose everything that is the Nightmare, since, as we see in cases like Tiachren, the main influence Nightmare has is the perversion of nobility to cruelty - remove that cruelty and Nightmare is just... nothing at all. Literal no difference from the Dream. Not to mention you remove the irony, and thus the original narrative appeal, of the Nightmare and its influence itself.

And I feel that it just makes the worldbuilding feel more shallow if you tie more and more things "wrong with the world" to the Elder Dragons (and ultimately the Dragonvoid). If the intention is to have a group of sylvari who reject the Tenets without going full cruelty, aside from that being exactly what the Soundless are, there's other individuals that mention it - I don't remember the name but there's a sylvari in the Grove who expresses dislike of the tenets and being bound to live up to those expectations, but when compared to the Nightmare Court they're agast at the suggestion and expresses disdain for their cruelty.

You can have that neutral grouping without taking out the primary aspect of the Nightmare Court, as such sylvari already exist. Sometimes, irredeemable groups should stay irredeemable, and I feel the Nightmare Court can sit in that area while still being interesting.

 

TL;DR

  • If the desire is just to have a sylvari group who're "middle ground" - neither following the tenets but not beholden to evil... Why not use the Soundless, Malyck's sylvari, or create a new group?
  • If the desire is just to redeem the yet another evil faction... What's the narrative appeal of this?
Edited by Konig Des Todes.2086
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Some possible future stories I've considered in the past.

  1. Following up on the Ebonhawke DRM, and all the proceeding events going back to the Ghosts of Ascalon book, Humans and the Charr decide to resolve the last major thorn in their relations. Rytlock with Sohothin, and Wade Samuelsson with a reforged Magdaer picked up from whatever smith Eir left it at, are part of a delegation that plans to go to the ruins of Drascir, identified as a place of power where the ghost purging ritual can take place, to finally clear up the ghost issue once and for all. But ghosts, and ogres pose, a problem in even reaching the site.
  2. With the Centaur army's defeat, and the death of Ulgoth the Mighty(the one responsible for bringing the Alliance together), as well as the Tamini and Harathi never really wanting to be part of the war against humanity, and the destruction caused by Primordus' destroyers in their land during IBS, the centaurs have split into two groups, one wanting to make peace with humans, and the other wanting to keep the "fight" going. The players, possibly with Mr E's prodding, get involved, and we get to do something resembling the Centaur story Anet originally had planned for IBS.
  3. Either we go north of the "bandit bridge" in Brisban Wildlands, or west of Auric Basin now that the map has been expanded, and find Malyck's tree, learn how they fared during Mordremoth's awakening, and the following crisis, and get some lite Nightmare Court interference with them trying to convince Malyck's people to go to nightmare.
  4. The Inquest, after the events of EoD, have finally gotten their hands on all the dragon magics, and have perfected their horrible fusion abominations. We track them down to their final large base, put a stop to their monsters before they can be unleashed, and kill the Inquest's leadership once and for all, ending the threat of the last major racial enemy group.

All off these could be one off LW episodes, or maybe IBS style two parters ala Bjora or Drizzlewood.

There's also the LWS6 ideas I mentioned earlier in the thread that would wrap up the Purist, Risen, and Deeps(Deep Sea Monster, Quaggan, Largos, Krait) stuff left over from EoD.

Xpack 4, and the following LW season after it(assuming it gets one) can reveal the secrets of the Mists, what Lyssa's plan is(or was), and possibly what happened to the original human homeworld that caused them to flee.

Edited by Sajuuk Khar.1509
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While interesting, I do personally wish that they would go more with further exploration of this extremely well expanded world map rather than going to a Mists based story. Obviously they aren't mutually exclusive as season 4 had a huge focus on the Mists while also expanding the world map, though.

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7 hours ago, Narcemus.1348 said:

While interesting, I do personally wish that they would go more with further exploration of this extremely well expanded world map rather than going to a Mists based story. Obviously they aren't mutually exclusive as season 4 had a huge focus on the Mists while also expanding the world map, though.

Anet has said in the past, sometime around LWS4 I do believe, though Konig may know more exactly, that they had an internal rule that all LW/Xpack maps have to be placed on the map parchment we have. So no like GW1 where Tyria, Elona, Cantha, and the Domain of Torment, were on separate map spaces, and they have kept that true all the way through EoD.

I would guess any Mists heavy story would be primarily set on Tyira, though have us going into the Mists fairly often in story instances and the like. Probably set it out west, on that landmass marked by the trade routes on the map in the Priory back in LWS2.

I would make it incorporate a lot of the Utopia design aesthetics, a very central/south America vibe. Tyria itself is supposed to be Europe and the Middle East, Elona is Africa, and Cantha is Asia, so we need an "Americas" setting to round out the world.

Edited by Sajuuk Khar.1509
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As Charr player, I'm expecting New Khan-Ur stuff, Flame Legion finaly is back ( thanks Efram ūüėõ¬†), and with the loss of two Imperator, things arn't going well for Charrs, I want to see how things progress.

Also, now that we finaly saved the whole world again and ended the Dragon Cycle. I hope things will focus more on the PC on personal level from now on.

I'm also craving to explore never seen lands especially if it was never seen in GW1. This map is so huge to not have more interesting things hidden somewhere.

 

Edited by Mithrilos.8036
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