Upcoming Changes to "The Battle For The Jade Sea"

[Caitybee.3614]

Yikes.

[Ototo.3214]

I am unfortunately a bit busy as these changes are happening, but I'm glad to see that you're trying to incentivize and reward people for doing the mechanics as intended because trying to force everyone to ignore a mechanic didn't seem right to me.

 

I'll have to give the meta another go sometime this weekend!

[Anjo.3170]

Not good enough.  All you did was disguise your green circle nerf.  All this thing does it swoop from side to side and by the time it settles, 45 seconds have gone bye.  And some of the other comments are just proving this is a raid not a meta.

[dly.2485]

3 hours ago, interNerd.4908 said:

These changes are very welcome.

 

But I don't get how decisions are made within ArenaNet. The addon clearly targets new (unexperienced) players, because even though you can enter the addon only at level 80, you have to play a tutorial. So. Target group: New unexperienced players (aka. liquidity in business terms).

 

But yet, your very first sentence is "The Jade Sea meta was designed to be the ultimate open world finale, an epic conclusion to the 10-year Elder Dragon story arc.". This targets players that play Guild Wars 2 from day one. In my opinion, you have to decide which kind of player is targeted to complete the meta event. At the moment, the meta event is only doable with mainly the three meta classes. Any new player will not even know about these meta classes, but is expected to take part in a coordinated event with 49 other randoms. Seems kinda odd to me.

 

Completely agree with this.

I have commanded a few meta's on DE and would count myself as an above average player, I find the game very easy for the most part.

Gatekeeping the Turtle mount which is one of the biggest appeals to this expansion behind this ridiculous hard public meta is a joke. It is encouraging elitism in a game where the majority are casual players. I myself only play about 6 - 8 hour a week due to work and family commitments (which most of the GW1 fanbase will be of working age now) . I have yet to find a group who is able to complete this meta even when I am organizing the groups. I do not want to discriminate on what builds I allow into my squad. Even the new changes have not really changed much, we came closer but still has 12%.

I already feel like its ridiculous that I have so far wasted about 16 or so hours on this meta and I am getting to the point of thinking should I even bother. I cant imagine what the average casual player without much experience or new players feel like.

Edited March 5, 2022 by carrolltech.9215

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

Its like Anet doesn't understand what a middle ground is.  Its either let's force you into an open world raid boss where you will be harassed by try hards or they make a final boss battle on rails that basically plays itself in a non-climatic sort of way.  No open world event should be so hard that it takes this long AND can so easily fail because a few people aren't top tier with their class and are expected to perfectly play their part or risk pooching it for all of the other players.  Not only is it not fun, its just not fair to either the experienced players or the new ones.  Its frankly poor design.  I would hope these changes will actually fix this, but to say i'm skeptical would be an understatement.

[Borked.6824]

And here I am on day 3.5 post release with my hands thrown up "I haven't even seen the boss yet!"  Thanks for the nerf gaiz.  Glad my contributions and feedback were usefu... wait...  

Go outside, people!

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

9 minutes ago, lissiandra.1357 said:

Just did this meta

 

what's the point of increased exposed debuff if she's just going to swoop 3 times in a row after you break her bar anyways

This, how is this a fix? You spent all day discussing this and this was the best you could come up with some half attempt to placate while really doing nothing, traded one hot mess for another?

[kaesebrezen.3104]

3 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

• The duration of the "Exposed" debuff from break bars in this encounter has been increased from 10 seconds to 30 seconds. This further incentivizes engaging with the break bar and should increase group damage output when completing the mechanic correctly. This change applies to both the Final Boss and all mini-bosses in the final encounter.

 

What does a 30 second debuff on the boss matter, when her totally random attack pattern just has her consistently become untargetable and move across the plattform, or just respawn her tail?

 

These changes do very little compared to before. People with the wisp buff are few, even if all make it. And the "win"-wisp strategy gave 2 mintes extra, now it's just 90 seconds - which is then made up by the 20 second extra break-debuff on the add phase.

 

So the total net-gain from these changes to before is absolutely zero.

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

1 minute ago, Borked.6824 said:

And here I am on day 3.5 post release with my hands thrown up "I haven't even seen the boss yet!"  Thanks for the nerf gaiz.  Glad my contributions and feedback were usefu... wait...  

Go outside, people!

When you try it and fail, be grateful these people are here trying to get this broken piece of crap fixed for you!

[Teratus.2859]

Hopefully these changes will help a lot of people.

Although I am not sure they address one of the main concerns i've seen people complaining about regarding trolls in the Green circle phase.
This is probably still going to happen despite these changes, but it's good to see the damage they can do will be diminished somewhat.

There is still the issue of the very long prep time for the Meta though.
You guys really need to look into that as well since this issue is also a big, BIG! contributor to why so many people are so angry about this event.

I am very glad to see that deliberate action has been taken to stop people skipping the Green Circle Phase though and force them to do it as intended.
I hope Anet sticks to their guns on this one, cheesing fights like that shouldn't be rewarded nor encouraged and it spoils content when it becomes the go to method of completing content.

[Kye.5240]

I just commanded this fight with this new patch.

Here is what happened:
Starting at patch, I took the 30 minute pre event string to gather up everyone in the map. Asking people to leave if they were not doing the meta. We got a FANTASTIC group. Everyone listened, everyone did as asked.
We smashed the opening with 10 minutes to spare. Everything went perfect.

Started the boss fight. BURNED HER TO 80% in 1 minute. FANTASTIC DPS
Green phase everyone came up as they should. THE PHASE DIDN'T END. That's okay, we aren't stuck for two minutes like before.
Get our first CC, absolutely smashed it. Got the exposed buff. Got her to 72% before tail popped. 
Killed tail nice and quick.
She did a swoop.
Then ANOTHER swoop.
Finally able to attack her again.. tail spawns again.
CC pops while tail is up...
Kill tail... AGAIN
Attack her down to 62%
Tail AGAIN
Ignore it and dps to 60%
Phase, get through wirl in ~20 seconds
Pair bosses down in ~1 minute. Perfect timing
Get back up to the platform and start smacking her
5 seconds later Tail pops
We kill tail
5 seconds later Tail pops
Swoop
Swoop
Kill tail
finally do DPS
Get her down to 45%
Swoop
Swoop
Swoop
Tail -.-
Finally get her to 40%, phase
Do greens - hit max timer again
Start killing her again
get her to 38%, tail
37% CC
Pass CC check
Swoop
Swoop
Tail
down to 32%
Another CC check we make
Swoop
Swoop
Swoop
Swoop
Get to dps for the last 1 minute to 20%
Wirl phase - timer ends.


The RNG on these is REDICULIOUS
Please, please, please, pleeeeaaasee set CC, swoop, and tail at certain % in the fight. This is the 15th time I've failed this, even with these updates. The added cc buff is USELESS IF YOU CAN'T HIT HER

Edited March 5, 2022 by Sister Xing.9072

[Fenom.9457]

I LOVE this expansion so much, genuinely every part of it is astounding to me - this meta is one of my favorites ever, likely even my very favorite.  I don't mind failing the first couple days, people just need to learn.  I don't mind a challenging meta, I enjoy it.  Having to learn and respond to mechanics is engaging!  I've failed the meta 3 or 4 times now but I'm not feeling too bad still, it's a fun experience.

 

But after playing with the newest patch, it still needs a lot of changing.  I just finished a run with WP on stream where he had a map full of people who understood the mechanics, were listening to him call things out, had the jade bot offensive and defensive buffs, had the dragon's end 10% buffs, destroyed the CC bar every time... and still didn't make it past 20%.  It's just way too short a timer to ask all these things of people.  If you guys won't do things like lower health amounts or make phases easier - which I support, the meta is fantastic and I don't want to see it nerfed and ruined - then the timer needs to be longer.  The changes outlined in this post honestly made little enough difference I couldn't tell when things we or weren't even happening.  It's not enough.

[Borked.6824]

3 minutes ago, Vlad Morbius.1759 said:

When you try it and fail, be grateful these people are here trying to get this broken piece of crap fixed for you!

Fair enough.  I just get worried when sweaty instance-dwellers start messing with my open world stuff.  

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

I've just done this with the latest patches in mind, and was able to finally finish it post-patching. Compared to my previous runs, we actually had 2 minute to spare because people followed up on what was being said on chat. 

That said though, I'm not yet sure how others have done it with an absolutely disorganized PUG. The main problem is the stupidly erratic behaviour of the AI on Soo-Won during certain phases like in the Exposed phase where she will just repeatedly switch sides. She also spams whirlpools like no tomorrow (and I say that knowing I got whirlpooled 10 times in a single run that I feel like my character has hydrophobia now lel) and we just accept death because any time spent freeing allies is time spent not damaging Soo-Won in such a short timeframe. 

Right now I feel like its definitely doable in an organized group, but with an erratic AI that's stupidly spammy with certain attacks means people who may not be as organized will not be able to do it. We had 2 minutes to spare on my last run after finally finishing it, but we only had that 2 minutes to spare because we had an organized group. If it wasn't organized, well.. yeah it would have been pain. 

[Hrothgarwilly.7386]

4 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

nitoring completion rates very closely and are currently happy to see that successful clears are becoming more common as strategies evolve and players learn and master the encounter. Right now, we are not making any adjustments to the overall health of the boss. Instead, we are looking at ways to incentivize players to engage with and complete the enco

did it after patch with one second to spare :), but now ive realised i have to do a strike mission as part of the turtle process rip😰

[Hallow.7368]

8 hours ago, Rubi Bayer.8493 said:

The Jade Sea meta was designed to be the ultimate open world finale, an epic conclusion to the 10-year Elder Dragon story arc. To accomplish this, we challenged our own conventions for creating open world content to provide an encounter unlike anything ever seen before in Guild Wars 2. As such, the encounter was designed from the start to be challenging, but progressively more doable as players learn mechanics and how to handle phase transitions.

We're monitoring completion rates very closely and are currently happy to see that successful clears are becoming more common as strategies evolve and players learn and master the encounter. Right now, we are not making any adjustments to the overall health of the boss. Instead, we are looking at ways to incentivize players to engage with and complete the encounters’ core mechanics. Here are a few examples of changes you can expect to see with the next game update:

• Fixed an issue wherein the “green circle” phase could be completed under incorrect circumstances. After the update, players must coordinate to ensure all green circles are taken, and each player makes it back to the platform. Once every player has returned, the phase will complete.
• To accompany this change, the time to complete this phase has been reduced from 120 seconds to 75 seconds. This buys players 90 more seconds to fight the boss in a worst-case scenario where all the intended amount of “green circle” players do not make it back to the top of the boss arena.
• The duration of the outgoing damage buff provided to “green circle” players who successfully make it back to the top of the boss arena has been increased. This should allow it to remain active against the final boss even when players reach the top of the platform very quickly.
• The duration of the "Exposed" debuff from break bars in this encounter has been increased from 10 seconds to 30 seconds. This further incentivizes engaging with the break bar and should increase group damage output when completing the mechanic correctly. This change applies to both the Final Boss and all mini-bosses in the final encounter.
• The final boss should now more responsively transition from "stunned" or "vulnerable" states when pushed to any health threshold, greatly reducing the amount of time players spend waiting for a phase transition to begin.

We recognize that your feedback touches on both the difficulty of the encounter itself and acquisition of the Siege Turtle collection. For now, we’re targeting changes to improve successful completion rates of the encounter. If these changes don’t have the effect we’re looking for, we'll look at further changes to the encounter or potentially offer alternative acquisition paths for the Siege Turtle collection. We’ll be monitoring the impact of these changes over the weekend.

No one really wanted nerfs for the encounter just safety nets so that one person messing up greens didn't waste like a 1/7th of the timer on its own each time. I personally think the best way to fix that would of just been to pause the boss timer when the first person got back until the full 2 minutes was up, but that might of required more code than just saying it makes it sound like or even rebuilding that part of the encounter from scratch. I'm glad you guys payed attention though and were modest with the changes! 90 second less time wasted sounds fantastic. The only thing that seems like it maybe went a bit too far was the exposed debuff being tripled. This might not be as big as it sounds but it sounds like a fairly large buff to player dps.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Hallow.7368

[Alcatraznc.3869]

These changes are not bad but it is still vulnerable to troll and grief. I still believe these changes should be applied :

-a minimum treshold for the wisp : you want us to do the wisp and the wisp is a potential griefing tool. The easiest fix would be that everyone is turned into a wisp and as long as X players manages to get on top, everyone gets back to their body and the event continue. That way troll will no longer impact the success rate that much and new player can learn the mecanic without being flamed in chat. 

-tail should deal damage to the boss. As for right now it is silly that you cannot skip the tail part, it keeps moving back and forth AND all the DPS you do there doesnt impact the boss HP. Breaking the tail should remove a small % of the boss HP

-a bit more time: the boss is filled with a lot of mecanic with some requiring more time than other. I dont think adding 10 more min for instance would drastically make the boss easier.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Alcatraznc.3869

[Lance Coolee.9480]

27 minutes ago, Sister Xing.9072 said:

I just commanded this fight with this new patch.

Here is what happened:
Starting at patch, I took the 30 minute pre event string to gather up everyone in the map. Asking people to leave if they were not doing the meta. We got a FANTASTIC group. Everyone listened, everyone did as asked.
We smashed the opening with 10 minutes to spare. Everything went perfect.

Started the boss fight. BURNED HER TO 80% in 1 minute. FANTASTIC DPS
Green phase everyone came up as they should. THE PHASE DIDN'T END. That's okay, we aren't stuck for two minutes like before.
Get our first CC, absolutely smashed it. Got the exposed buff. Got her to 72% before tail popped. 
Killed tail nice and quick.
She did a swoop.
Then ANOTHER swoop.
Finally able to attack her again.. tail spawns again.
CC pops while tail is up...
Kill tail... AGAIN
Attack her down to 62%
Tail AGAIN
Ignore it and dps to 60%
Phase, get through wirl in ~20 seconds
Pair bosses down in ~1 minute. Perfect timing
Get back up to the platform and start smacking her
5 seconds later Tail pops
We kill tail
5 seconds later Tail pops
Swoop
Swoop
Kill tail
finally do DPS
Get her down to 45%
Swoop
Swoop
Swoop
Tail -.-
Finally get her to 40%, phase
Do greens - hit max timer again
Start killing her again
get her to 38%, tail
37% CC
Pass CC check
Swoop
Swoop
Tail
down to 32%
Another CC check we make
Swoop
Swoop
Swoop
Swoop
Get to dps for the last 1 minute to 20%
Wirl phase - timer ends.


The RNG on these is REDICULIOUS
Please, please, please, pleeeeaaasee set CC, swoop, and tail at certain % in the fight. This is the 15th time I've failed this, even with these updates. The added cc buff is USELESS IF YOU CAN'T HIT HER

100% this ^

[CoffeePlease.3082]

Maybe I'm in the minority with my opinion, but I actually love that there is a challenging meta event. They have all been so easy, having one that isn't free chests is definitely exciting.

 

I've done mythic raiding in wow for 10+ years and so the rng isn't new to me, it can be really annoying when it doesn't go your way but ultimately it keeps the event from being cheeseable.

 

I am sure lots of people are annoyed that the turtle mount is locked behind the event and I get that, but I hope as you continue to iterate on the encounter you don't end up nerfing it into the ground. Maybe add an alternative route for players to get the siege turtle for those who don't want to face the challenge, I know a lot of super casual players who would probably just want the mount for the sake of +1 mount, so they shouldn't have to deal with people raging at them for this that and the other. 

 

Yes it's a heavy time commitment, and yes there is always the chaos factor of the fact that there are people you don't know participating, but I love it and can't wait to actually beat this one!

[chronometria.3708]

This is a map event and not a raid, but people are already restricting its access and forming closed groups to complete it successfully. As it is currently, its the sort of event that people will complete once and then never go back to - whereas dragonstand and the mouth of mordremoth are enjoyable to complete on a regular basis. 

 

For a map event, its far too challenging, too random and too weighted towards potential failure at the end. 

[Firebeard.1746]

4 hours ago, interNerd.4908 said:

These changes are very welcome.

 

But I don't get how decisions are made within ArenaNet. The addon clearly targets new (unexperienced) players, because even though you can enter the addon only at level 80, you have to play a tutorial. So. Target group: New unexperienced players (aka. liquidity in business terms).

 

But yet, your very first sentence is "The Jade Sea meta was designed to be the ultimate open world finale, an epic conclusion to the 10-year Elder Dragon story arc.". This targets players that play Guild Wars 2 from day one. In my opinion, you have to decide which kind of player is targeted to complete the meta event. At the moment, the meta event is only doable with mainly the three meta classes. Any new player will not even know about these meta classes, but is expected to take part in a coordinated event with 49 other randoms. Seems kinda odd to me.

 

You win the internet. I don't feel comfortable recommending this expansion to my friends who haven't played GW2 yet or have been away for a long time. i feel navigating the maps is difficult without season 4 mounts, the OW turtle meta is requiring way more from a new player than I would feel comfortable throwing at them for learning the game, the strikes don't really feel like strikes, some of them feel like raids and even the one I tried that is easier had so much boss HP I'd have to recommend a glass cannon build from the start which I don't think i could even recommend to myself if I was just starting. I liked not being picky with people in IB saga strikes, just asking for roles from people who'd give them in my LFG. Never did a single gear check on my filler dps. Boons is usually enough. 

All of the "entry" level content in this expansion doesn't feel that way at all. And TBH even though i've done harder content in this game, I like playing chill too, so EoD has disappointed me. I was looking forward to doing strikes chill and then if my group was good attempting a CM, not having to train a multiphase boss fight with tricky mechanics (like the Mordremoth wave that can kill you if you don't time your jump *JUST* right) and having to teach people every time. 

I mean if we're all supposed to be stomping around in boon support heal, boon support DPS and/or glass cannon gear, please delete soldier's and any stat combinations without concentration or full glass from the game. And see if people really like the game that way. This game was solo friendly and that's the gateway for turning casuals into hardcore players. does every player make that jump? no. But alot of players start with classes and builds that are fun and strong in OW, then move on to learn the game more in depth in other PVE modes. 

Edited March 5, 2022 by Firebeard.1746

[Firebeard.1746]

Just now, chronometria.3708 said:

This is a map event and not a raid, but people are already restricting its access and forming closed groups to complete it successfully. As it is currently, its the sort of event that people will complete once and then never go back to - whereas dragonstand and the mouth of mordremoth are enjoyable to complete on a regular basis. 

 

For a map event, its far too challenging, too random and too weighted towards potential failure at the end. 

No to mention too long. Having to wait 30 minute on a full map after completing the areas was annoying. 

[Tyson.5160]

What’s unfortunate as well is that every elite spec has to metas for two maps to complete their weapon, while the Vindy and Virto have their elite spec weapon gated behind this meta event as well.

[Palador.2170]

38 minutes ago, Hrothgarwilly.7386 said:

did it after patch with one second to spare :), but now ive realised i have to do a strike mission as part of the turtle process rip😰

Wait... what?

 

Does the collection, once unlocked, require a strike mission as well?

[Winola.8214]

14 minutes ago, Palador.2170 said:

Wait... what?

 

Does the collection, once unlocked, require a strike mission as well?

Yes it does. However, it is much, much, much easier than the meta and you can probably find a party to carry you. It's like a 10 minute fight.