Upcoming Changes to "The Battle For The Jade Sea"

[Roda.7468]

So is the breakbar behavior change supposed to work like this? I was in a run last night where Every Single Break Bar occurred during tail phase. We missed every single cc phase because of it.

We cleared with time to spare, but kitten those tail phases felt bad because of it. :T

[fizzypetal.7936]

Another 4 hours, and zip to show for it.  Maws failed due to scaling, Soo Wan failed with organised groups on 2 consecutive runs. I could just buy the egg, but what is the point when I still need a win for the Vindicator thing...not to mention, need the maw for a part.

Failing would not be so bad if at least one could earn gold doing events.  But not even earning some gold just makes DE a complete waste of time.

Update: 22:00 UK time.  Lucked out in a major way and finally got the job done.  NotOverlyCheesy from Hardstuck was running the map - big shout out to them.  Super organised - as in professions were spread between subgroups for optimal boon sharing, heals, cc, and dps, communicative during the run up, with sub-groups matched to Caith, Captain Fa, Navan, and the two mini boss splits.  Laid down markers around the islands so groups knew where to go.  And took the time to give me a new necro build so I'll be retiring my rev and bringing my scourge back.  Now to try and get the rest of the bits and pieces to complete the turtle.  

Edited March 21, 2022 by fizzypetal.7936
Update

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

Looks like design team errored on dishing out satisfying content. I still lack ability to see what exactly this expansion brought other than more grinding and rng.

New maps that arent really enjoyable content wise like a story book with pictures, fishing, turtle mount and some elite specs. All of these adsitions harsly seem worth tge title of expansion especially when balance and full review of these new elite spec functions are needed. If you dont enjoy what you play, you eventually stop playing altogether.

 

Stop catering to one type of audience and upgrade reward system, classes to make them actually useful instead of nerf this and nerf that...if i soend 2 hours every preparation fir de and fail, i should feel rewarded for my effort, not punished for wasting my time on account of other peoples negligence to understand mechanics. Go back to the  drawing board kitten.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Lithril Ashwalker.6230

[BlackRoseFFX.4061]

Congrats Anet, you made a 50 person raid out of content usually aimed at non raiders. Congrats on making an Open World event that most pug groups can not pass. 

It is already content that is getting gatekept by requiring killproofs and LI because people don't want to waste 2 hrs on a fail. Commanders are hiding tags in the hope that randos will leave thinking its a dead map, and you know what it works.

There have been so many suggestions from people over the last 50 pages that would make this event more casual friendly, and you don't have to implement all of them, but some would make this event repayable. 

 

If you want a super epic end event, then go make an actual raid for the raiders to enjoy.

[Chichimec.9364]

3 hours ago, BlackRoseFFX.4061 said:

Congrats Anet, you made a 50 person raid out of content usually aimed at non raiders. Congrats on making an Open World event that most pug groups can not pass...

Your post does seem to be all too accurate. I was back on a DE map again today, working on getting the exp to max out the turtle mastery line so I can buff the health on my other mounts. The map was fairly busy during the prep phase though the Jade Maw failed (again). The totally rando pug did manage to make it to the last fight but never got Soo-Won below 40% health. The only tag that showed up was a mentor and they did nothing I saw to organize the map or prep people for the battle. Personally, I don't see what's supposed to be fun about fail after fail. It seems a real shame that Anet put this 50 person raid on an open world map in the first place and that they then dug in their heels, refusing to make any significant changes that would make it more accessible to casual players. Put raid content in raid instances and leave the open world as a casual friendly place. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that concept.

[EzyQzy.8620]

Complaints on this Sue Wong meta are falling on deaf ears at Anet.  Granted they did something (ie the egg), and this probably because they realize you can't sell a turtle skin when players don't have a turtle 😄

[garpu.6210]

OK, opinions after a weekend of trying.  (4 tries, failed all 4 times, one of which we just farmed it for xp and stuff.)

1.)  The rewards need upping, because it just doesn't compare to other open world events. (Like Istan is a loot piñata for about the same amount of work as Battle for Jade Sea.)

2.)  You really do need to participate in all two hours of it, from preparation to the final battle.  This is a problem because people work, have lives, and so on.

3.)  The numbers just weren't there, even during an evening on Eastern time on a weekend.  It shouldn't be doable with 5 people, but if there's 20-25, it shouldn't fail, either.  (See also time investment vs. reward.)

4.)  I don't know that comparing this to a raid is accurate, because you immediately get another try on an encounter in a raid situation, once everyone has regrouped.  (Granted, most of my raiding experience is in WoW progression raiding.) Jade Sea, you have to wait another two hours, so people really don't have time to learn from mistakes. It's not fresh in one's fingers, like it would be in raiding.

5.)  I think there should be a tuned version for open world, and if people want a harder version, it should be a strike mission.  (It would be a brilliant strike mission as is.)  It's not a bad event chain!  It's just...not tuned for open world or not having a full map of people. (Like you don't need 50 people to do Istan, if everyone doesn't stand in fire, and so on.)

Edited March 21, 2022 by garpu.6210

[medivh.4725]

I think is part bit related to 10 men buff becoming 5. Bring back 10 men buffs. And Soon-Won will be so dead

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

I said I would report back after trying the new changes over the weekend. So here I am again. I must say my perception of EoD hasn't changed much. I still think it to be the worst release I have played in Guild Wars 2 designed for raid-focused-players. Jade bots and the boost to Vit are proof the game was designed for a more "hard-core" play style. Or they wouldn't have needed the boost. It's sad to say but the biggest issue for me is seeing the entirety of this release being made for the smallest percent of players. I do not think they should be excluded, I also think they should get their fare share of content. I think this should have been marketed as "Challenging Content" so we have the information we need to make a proper informed decision to buy or not. It's also one of the more beautiful places we have to play in with great new features, fishing & boating,  a fun new mount that was faster only if you win the meta, thankfully it was changed.

 

I was able to get in on 2 more runs. It was a 50/50 Win/Loss.

So did the changes help make it more accessible?  It would appear that it does only if you don't miss a Break Bar. On the game we won we made the break bar each time it popped. We had more time for more dps. On the loss we did fine and I felt we were in for another win but then missed a break bar. From there it spiraled down and players immediately shown the l33tist play-style. The bar was missed and "gg it's over" was the mantra.  We even had noticeably less players. I can say they at least stuck around to the 20% marker.

 

well, gg it's over.

 

We have a strike mission to do and we are down to map comp and masteries. Not what I hoped I 'd get but since the achieves are also tied to the SooWon win We're not doing those either! Not until it's nerfed more. So much enjoyable content not worth the frustration of lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose win complete 1 thing. Then lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose win complete 1 thing lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose win complete 1 thing.lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose lose win complete 1 thing.

 

FTN.

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

7 hours ago, garpu.6210 said:

4.)  I don't know that comparing this to a raid is accurate, because you immediately get another try on an encounter in a raid situation, once everyone has regrouped.  (Granted, most of my raiding experience is in WoW progression raiding.) Jade Sea, you have to wait another two hours, so people really don't have time to learn from mistakes. It's not fresh in one's fingers, like it would be in raiding.

5.)  I think there should be a tuned version for open world, and if people want a harder version, it should be a strike mission.  (It would be a brilliant strike mission as is.)  It's not a bad event chain!  It's just...not tuned for open world or not having a full map of people. (Like you don't need 50 people to do Istan, if everyone doesn't stand in fire, and so on.)

Fare point you make there. How nice it would be if they actually did give us another go after a fail as with the /GG command in raids? But then that' s one  aspect that makes raids better than this. So again really it points out how the mixing of the two styles just isn't a great idea. Why break something that was working? Oh well, chalk up another fail. <---theme of EoD😖

 

I'm also sure that's what went through the developers minds.  It makes sense. There's some bad guys before hand, then the are some LT's and finally the Boss in both types of play. Sure the bad guy isn't supposed to be a walk in the park for both type of play. Really the only difference is the two play styles. why not just bring them together and let the player base work it out? We make one style of content and ship it and they just play it, ideal right!? Right! But then there is this. Sure all four types have things in common, but at their core they do not cross over. There in is our issue. The game is divided into all of those. The players, not so much.

 

Actually they did say that the "challenging content" was going to be the strike missions released with CM's later after the release. That's half the reason so many are confused and upset with what they've been given from what they were told they would get. So begs the question, are we the beta testers for the Strike Missions? That's not going to fair well for those looking for the extreme sports challenge missions us crying for nerfs. What are the SM's going to be? After all Isn't there already an SM for this battle? So why then is Open World tuned this way?

 

All I know is it's not going to see the year long play and money drop from me the other releases have that's for sure. SooWon battle is in all the other content of EoD also. I've never seen maps with so many blue downed icons before. and instead of stopping and helping I'm flying by or leaping by, cuz I know what's there! And that's not the play style I like, I'd rather stop and help the downed out.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Seth Moonshadow.2710
additional comments

[Zabi Zabi.3561]

Here is another suggestion! Make it so the collection "Looking Back" does NOT require a successful "Battle for the jade sea" in order to trigger Marjory to appear, cause lets face it, the meta event is a kitten on this game

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

True, but I've not bothered checking to see if there is even more locked SooWon content. I'm afraid to look so I'm just getting the things I want and getting back to the Northern lands. But yes you're correct. Would have been a completely normal gate were it not for the format of the current release. We had to beat Balthazar before getting griffin 💩, now we are just getting the 💩

 

Good XP farm though when you don't look for the win😁

Edited March 22, 2022 by Seth Moonshadow.2710

[Seth Moonshadow.2710]

26 minutes ago, Seth Moonshadow.2710 said:

So begs the question, are we the beta testers for the Strike Missions?

"Challenge Mode Strike Missions

Challenge Mode Strike Missions will not be immediately available when Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons launches. We’ve been playtesting them for months internally and I think they’re a ton of fun, but we want normal mode to go out first so we can fix any bugs and polish the encounters after seeing the strategies players develop in the live game"

and

"Closing thoughts:
It's natural to make assumptions about what is common or normal based on our own habits and capabilities and extrapolate that out to the rest of the player community, but most Guild Wars 2 players have few methods for working directly on their legendary goals. Much of it is earned from the 7 clovers a month from the final login track reward!

 The feeling of working hard for something and finding out it’s going to be easily accessible to others in the future can feel bad, and that feeling is real and valid. But you’ve made a ton of tangible progress in fractal Challenge Modes and other people having access to that in the future doesn’t take away from everything you’ve accomplished.

 I hope this gives some more insight into how we think about reward design and clarifies some of the changes coming in Guild Wars 2: End of Dragons ."

~More info on Strike Missions, Balance, and Rewards in End of Dragons

 

🤔 The truth is out now. I can stop posting now.

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

After the one win where I got my egg, I saw only dead maps, only groups that are full, or hidden... managed 3 runs, all 3 fails.

Yeah... Byebye End of Dragons, what a waste of my precious money. Won't pre-order an Expansion EVER again.
I will wait next time untill I read feedback on it.

Casual friendly is what gw2 is known for, they deliberately broke it in this expansion.

This is your current game state:

I go do Dragon's End... I quickly get my 10 event buff and take a break because due to my handicap I need it. 2 hours of constant gameplay is simply not possible with my hands.

I am back before the escort starts and see mapchat... 

What I see in Map Chat makes me want to quit and uninstall.

And the biggest issue? ArenaNet's design of this meta is the sole reason for that.

If I knew this upfront, I would've known End of Dragons is content that is unsuitable for me, and I would not have purchased it. 

 

[Zephire.8049]

1 hour ago, Zabi Zabi.3561 said:

Here is another suggestion! Make it so the collection "Looking Back" does NOT require a successful "Battle for the jade sea" in order to trigger Marjory to appear, cause lets face it, the meta event is a kitten on this game

Considering that collection isn't even available until after you beat the story and thus the biggest spoiler isn't a spoiler at all, it really should be available regardless of the state of the meta.

I can see what they're going for but either have main character backstory accessible or have the meta it requires be accessible, don't have main character info (especially info they low-key hyped up) locked behind a meta that's largely inaccessible to your average player, especially as you only have 15 minutes on a completed map before being booted (and completing this quest will boot you anyway).

[Zaoda.1653]

20 hours ago, elrin.4750 said:

Complaints on this Sue Wong meta are falling on deaf ears at Anet.  Granted they did something (ie the egg), and this probably because they realize you can't sell a turtle skin when players don't have a turtle 😄

 

Haha, that was my first thought too. When the turtle skins came out I was like, ummmm, you forgot that most people still don't have the turtle mount? Including myself... lol - but until there's alternatives to the strike mission requirement, it doesn't look like I'll be getting the turtle.

 

I don't do raid-like things, I don't enjoy them, it's not my thing, and I don't enjoy strike missions either - especially if a team of elite players who demand that you know how to do everything without fail, are required.

 

My preferred game mode is WvW. Since Anet want to try and force us all into the 'we like Raids, therefore YOU must like raids too' box - that isn't going to work on me, and I'll just make do without the turtle mount instead. Luckily, I don't need it anyway, and quite frankly, why would I bother - when I can just join someone who's done all the work getting the turtle, and I get to have all the fun using their turtle's cannons?

 

Scrap the 2 player ideology, make the turtle owner both move and use cannons, and give alternatives to the strike mission requirement. Problem solved - and that only took me a couple seconds of thought - ideas for problems come easily to me, but whether or not Anet actually cares and implements them, is for another thread entirely...

[ngochung.4705]

DE meta supposed to be deal changer for GW2, now become deal breaker. DE now dead map with only ppl do jade maw and POI, nobody with right mind wanna do meta because of terrible reward (if success : OMG).

You screw the pooch this time: your game sucks now, Anet. You happy?

[medivh.4725]

Remove the stupid spirit bubble hopping around phrase. And the stupid lock you up in bubble jail duration or entirely. Its just dumb and really annoying

Edited March 22, 2022 by medivh.4725

[Memeren.1057]

Tried DE again yesterday as I saw people actually doing the meta, I assume it was semi pre-organised. There was no tag until escorts and lanes were done quickly. People knew what they were doing, dps was good, cc was good, greens were done. However Soo Won because Tail at the last minute and she was at 1% health. If we had another 5 minutes in the timer we could have done it. Also whats with the CC phase and TAIL at the same time?! So unfair.

What I did notice was that there wasn't 50 people doing the meta. And the numbers went down while fighting Soo Won, maybe they were afking at airship or ragequit, I don't know.

ANET this is called OPEN WORLD, so people will afk/fish/ragequit/whatever even when there is a meta event going on. 

 

 

[Xerxez.7361]

I've been loving the fixes to DE Meta so far (being able to free friends from Whirlpools & guaranteed breakbar after Acid Attack), but still one of the problems that persists is the bosses during the split phase. I can't remember the names, but a couple of them teleport too rapidly that breaking their bar becomes a challenge. Maybe I need to pay more attention to their attack pattern before using any breakbar skills, but the delay can set back the fight.

[cherrie.8907]

Quote

3 hrRubi Bayer.8493 unpinned this topic

I hope despite unpinning this, you guys are still looking into the meta? O.O

 

Personally, I didn't bother to actually retry the meta. Got my win, got my egg and if I have 2h to play the game, somehow this particular event is never high on the list of things I'd like to do.

Apart from my earlier post about how it takes too long and the buff being too restrictive for hot-joining (which an open world event needs to facilitate!), I also think the Wisp phase has no place in open world (unless it does not require EVERYONE to make it up top); if the Wisp requires everyone to make it up top, a single player can hold the entire map hostage wasting a lot of time per attempt. If we assume you can make it up in 30sec, that means potentially 2x1:30 time wasted, by a single player. A LOT for this boss. It shouldnt be possible for one unexperienced player or one griefer to do so much damage to a 2h effort of ~50 people.

Edited March 22, 2022 by cherrie.8907

[kankanKk.2748]

14 hours ago, Memeren.1057 said:

Tried DE again yesterday as I saw people actually doing the meta, I assume it was semi pre-organised. There was no tag until escorts and lanes were done quickly. People knew what they were doing, dps was good, cc was good, greens were done. However Soo Won because Tail at the last minute and she was at 1% health. If we had another 5 minutes in the timer we could have done it. Also whats with the CC phase and TAIL at the same time?! So unfair.

What I did notice was that there wasn't 50 people doing the meta. And the numbers went down while fighting Soo Won, maybe they were afking at airship or ragequit, I don't know.

ANET this is called OPEN WORLD, so people will afk/fish/ragequit/whatever even when there is a meta event going on. 

 

 

 

a tips, You can burn the last few% without kill tail.

 

[Bunny.9834]

21 minutes ago, kankanKk.2748 said:

 

a tips, You can burn the last few% without kill tail.

 

Yeah this. 
I've beat it 3 times now with the same commander who runs this meta with a PUG. 
 

Here's what I've noticed we did for the last part: (After the 3 Champion Phase): 

1. Ignore Tail at this point and focus soowon. 

2. Use AOE CC to help whirpool people. 

3. Ignore the ADS. Ignore the people stuck in bubbles. 

4. Support characters focus on IMMEDIATELY rezzing down players. 

 

[kankanKk.2748]

1 minute ago, DragonSlayer.1087 said:

Yeah this. 
I've beat it 3 times now with the same commander who runs this meta with a PUG. 
 

Here's what I've noticed we did for the last part: (After the 3 Champion Phase): 

1. Ignore Tail at this point and focus soowon. 

2. Use AOE CC to help whirpool people. 

3. Ignore the ADS. Ignore the people stuck in bubbles. 

4. Support characters focus on IMMEDIATELY rezzing down players. 

 

5. top priority : kill THORNHEARTS

 

 

[Astralporing.1957]

12 hours ago, cherrie.8907 said:

I hope despite unpinning this, you guys are still looking into the meta? O.O

Usually they unpin topics when they want the discussion to die. And i honestly doubt they did do that this time because they're still concerned about the issue.

It's as always - every now and then they talk a lot about communication and listening to players' feedback, but ultimately they never do.