Upcoming Changes to "The Battle For The Jade Sea"

[chronometria.3708]

Had a 5 percent fail last night and the anger and bad feeling in the chat was alarming. Anet needs to understand that this event is causing toxic, negative feelings like no other and that's not good for the community or the game.

 

Even while the group was forming there was argument and swearing on the map as the commander was trying to get the whole thing started. It gets worse every day and yet Anet seems to think this is how they want things to be. They should stop looking at completion numbers and go read those chat logs to see the result of their "challenging final meta".

[Yellow Rainbow.6142]

I am beginning to think Anet is getting feedback from few elite people who likes to keep the meta the way it is. More pug fail is better for those few elite people who make premade group. This way, they can keep the price of "Antique Summoning Stone" high.

My first kill came @13th try, I did it one more time with premade group. But, commander was telling in squad message not to tell people in map that they r doing meta. Also, getting his fren/guildmates as alac/quickness. Then, asking people that were in map to leave. Needless to say, I left. I do not like to associate myself with group like that.

 

[Erise.5614]

1 hour ago, Yellow Rainbow.6142 said:

I am beginning to think Anet is getting feedback from few elite people who likes to keep the meta the way it is. More pug fail is better for those few elite people who make premade group. This way, they can keep the price of "Antique Summoning Stone" high.

My first kill came @13th try, I did it one more time with premade group. But, commander was telling in squad message not to tell people in map that they r doing meta. Also, getting his fren/guildmates as alac/quickness. Then, asking people that were in map to leave. Needless to say, I left. I do not like to associate myself with group like that.

 

Not just that. People like MightyTeapot even celebrate the fact that it's grown their community by a few thousand people.

It's not their fault that so many PUGs fail but they are happy about how that benefits them.

I really hope ANet looks closely not just at completion rates but also who completes it and how. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Ashantara.8731]

55 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

Not just that. People like MightyTeapot even celebrate the fact that it's grown their community by a few thousand people.

They love the fact that so many pugs fail because it forces people to join their guilds. 

There are other communities who run this event as well. And yes, believe it or not, but I am certainly not "elite", yet I enjoy the challenge -- and when well organized with everyone bringing proper builds, gear and knowing their professions, it is not difficult at all after the nerfs.

No one is forcing anyone to participate in the meta, but if you want to do it, be ready to have it done properly, including voice chat. Otherwise, it's like crying over failure in WvW zerg fights where people (a) refuse to join the squad and (b) refuse to enter voice chat and listen to commands so that pushes against the opponent work out in your favor.

After a month, it should be clear what kind of content the DE meta is and what you have to do to succeed. If you are not ready and willing to comply, then don't participate. I don't see the problem, especially since now you have another way to acquire the Siege Turtle and there are also other ways to acquire Antique Summoning Stones.

[EzyQzy.8620]

2 hours ago, chronometria.3708 said:

Had a 5 percent fail last night and the anger and bad feeling in the chat was alarming. Anet needs to understand that this event is causing toxic, negative feelings like no other and that's not good for the community or the game.

 

Anet knows, and they don't care.

 

I myself have uninstalled the game, and this is probably my last post. Goodbye everyone!✌️

 

 

 

[yoni.7015]

15 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

There are other communities who run this event as well. And yes, believe it or not, but I am certainly not "elite", yet I enjoy the challenge -- and when well organized with everyone bringing proper builds, gear and knowing their professions, it is not difficult at all after the nerfs.

No one is forcing anyone to participate in the meta, but if you want to do it, be ready to have it done properly, including voice chat. Otherwise, it's like crying over failure in WvW zerg fights where people (a) refuse to join the squad and (b) refuse to enter voice chat and listen to commands so that pushes against the opponent work out in your favor.

After a month, it should be clear what kind of content the DE meta is and what you have to do to succeed. If you are not ready and willing to comply, then don't participate. I don't see the problem, especially since now you have another way to acquire the Siege Turtle and there are also other ways to acquire Antique Summoning Stones.

I absolutely agree. I really enjoy the meta. It takes some preparation and you should play a viable build but you don’t even need voice chat, it helps of course. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Erise.5614]

18 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

There are other communities who run this event as well. And yes, believe it or not, but I am certainly not "elite", yet I enjoy the challenge -- and when well organized with everyone bringing proper builds, gear and knowing their professions, it is not difficult at all after the nerfs.

No one is forcing anyone to participate in the meta, but if you want to do it, be ready to have it done properly, including voice chat. Otherwise, it's like crying over failure in WvW zerg fights where people (a) refuse to join the squad and (b) refuse to enter voice chat and listen to commands so that pushes against the opponent work out in your favor.

After a month, it should be clear what kind of content the DE meta is and what you have to do to succeed. If you are not ready and willing to comply, then don't participate. I don't see the problem, especially since now you have another way to acquire the Siege Turtle and there are also other ways to acquire Antique Summoning Stones.

If that was the intention then it has no place in the open world. It should be instanced content or have a deliberate trigger that starts the meta which already requires coordination. So only well organized maps that have a chance of success spend those 2 hours and everyone participating fully understands what kind of participation is expected. What kind of content this is. 

If your interpretation is accurate then the entire map is a trap the story leads players into with the deliberate intention to have players fail a few times and waste several hours.

At least the event should at least be presented as different kind of content and set itself apart from other metas before people get frustrated. Otherwise it's only the frustration that remains in memory. That sets it apart. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Tachenon.5270]

25 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

There are other communities who run this event as well. And yes, believe it or not, but I am certainly not "elite", yet I enjoy the challenge -- and when well organized with everyone bringing proper builds, gear and knowing their professions, it is not difficult at all after the nerfs.

No one is forcing anyone to participate in the meta, but if you want to do it, be ready to have it done properly, including voice chat. Otherwise, it's like crying over failure in WvW zerg fights where people (a) refuse to join the squad and (b) refuse to enter voice chat and listen to commands so that pushes against the opponent work out in your favor.

After a month, it should be clear what kind of content the DE meta is and what you have to do to succeed. If you are not ready and willing to comply, then don't participate. I don't see the problem, especially since now you have another way to acquire the Siege Turtle and there are also other ways to acquire Antique Summoning Stones.

 

Resistance is futile, eh? No.

We've made too many compromises already. Too many retreats. They invalidate our fun and we fall back. They assimilate the open world and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn, here! This far -- no further!

These! Are! Open! Maps!

Excuse me while I go get more coffee. Breakfast roast. Black.

[Xerxez.7361]

49 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

If that was the intention then it has no place in the open world. It should be instanced content or have a deliberate trigger that starts the meta which already requires coordination. So only well organized maps that have a chance of success spend those 2 hours and everyone participating fully understands what kind of participation is expected. What kind of content this is. 

If your interpretation is accurate then the entire map is a trap the story leads players into with the deliberate intention to have players fail a few times and waste several hours.

At least the event should at least be presented as different kind of content and set itself apart from other metas before people get frustrated. Otherwise it's only the frustration that remains in memory. That sets it apart. 

 

Along that same line can we get an Instance for Dragon Stand and Dragon Fall since they are both set up as a repeating Meta aswell?

Edited March 26, 2022 by Xerxez.7361

[yoni.7015]

Why does it bother you so much that there is one open world meta that needs a bit preparation and takes longer than 20 minutes? I mean you don’t have to play it, you can completely ignore it. You can do map completion without doing the meta. 

[Tachenon.5270]

Just now, yoni.7015 said:

Why does it bother you so much that there is one open world meta that needs a bit preparation and takes longer than 20 minutes? I mean you don’t have to play it, you can completely ignore it. You can do map completion without doing the meta. 

Why does it bother you so much that many of us don't want open world metas that need a bit preparation and take longer than 20 minutes? I mean you don't have to play open world metas, you can completely ignore them. You can run organized fractals, strikes, and raids without assimilating open world metas.

[yoni.7015]

10 minutes ago, Tachenon.5270 said:

Why does it bother you so much that many of us don't want open world metas that need a bit preparation and take longer than 20 minutes? I mean you don't have to play open world metas, you can completely ignore them. You can run organized fractals, strikes, and raids without assimilating open world metas.

And there are so many open world metas you can do that don’t need preparation. Why not have one (!) open world meta for players that like a little challenge, even in open world. The meta event is completely optional, you don’t have to do it. So why can’t you let other players have their fun with this one meta event? 

Edited March 26, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Tachenon.5270]

1 minute ago, yoni.7015 said:

And there are so many open world metas you can do that don’t need preparation. Why not have one (!) open world meta for players that like a little challenge, even in open world. 

Because it's (...drum roll...) Open World.

[yoni.7015]

3 minutes ago, Tachenon.5270 said:

Because it's (...drum roll...) Open World.

So what? Because it is Open World this one meta event can’t be a little challenge? Why not? You don’t like a challenge? Well good for you, there are at least 20 meta events designed just for you. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by yoni.7015

[Erise.5614]

24 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

Why does it bother you so much that there is one open world meta that needs a bit preparation and takes longer than 20 minutes? I mean you don’t have to play it, you can completely ignore it. You can do map completion without doing the meta. 

 

16 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

And there are so many open world metas you can do that don’t need preparation. Why not have one (!) open world meta for players that like a little challenge, even in open world. 

Problem 1: Only 20 minutes of it require preparation. The rest as the usual expected open world difficulty. Meaning it's misleading players for the majority of the event and actively wasting time if you fail in the end. You can't retry the challenging part easily. Another try costs everyone about 2 hours. 

Problem 2: It requires preparation but you are never warned, can not quickly prepare during the event and can't even properly organize the map as it's open world.

Forcing a new map is more like abusing the map system and since ANet optimized EoD maps to consolidate as many players as possible into as few maps as possible it's not even consistently possible anymore. People just search for a lowly populated map and use underhanded tactics to hopefully clear it out for their entire squad. The mere fact that this happens tells you everything about how inadequate the tools provided by ANet are for this kind of content in this environment.

This is not an environment to put organization and preparation heavy content without explicitly framing it as such. No one was surprised that raids require preparation and organization. Because it was communicated that way. By ANet and within the game. 

Doesn't even have to be pulled out of the open world. Just announce it clearly as extra challenging and don't just put it on a timer but put a ready check at the start of the event which gauges if this map has a chance of completing the event. A quick DPS and CC check to fail the event quickly on a map where the people aren't equipped well enough. Rather than only seeing it after investing 2 hours. 

Better yet, don't have it start at specific times but have it start the moment that ready check is succeeded. So maps can teach each other and retry a few minutes later. Lowering investment, lowering the feeling of lost time, lowering frustration and therefore making it far more enjoyable for everyone. 

The current difficulty in the current format is not fine. Lots of options exist to go forward. Only some of which requiring nerfs. But change is necessary in some form. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Tachenon.5270]

1 minute ago, yoni.7015 said:

So what? Because it is Open World this one meta event can’t be a little challenge? Why not? You don’t like a challenge? Well good for you, there are 20 meta events designed just for you. 

And you have all those wonderful fractals, strikes, and raids in which you can challenge yourself to your heart's content, all designed just for you! Why not go do them, then? In private. And leave us poor unskilled casuals alone out here in the Open World floundering around with our silly concept builds and mismatched gear and useless pets and fancy gathering tools and skiffs and fishing poles and whatever. That way, everybody's happy! Right? Right!

/e fireworks

[yoni.7015]

3 minutes ago, Tachenon.5270 said:

And you have all those wonderful fractals, strikes, and raids in which you can challenge yourself to your heart's content, all designed just for you! Why not go do them, then? In private. And leave us poor unskilled casuals alone out here in the Open World floundering around with our silly concept builds and mismatched gear and useless pets and fancy gathering tools and skiffs and fishing poles and whatever. That way, everybody's happy! Right? Right!

/e fireworks

There is a difference doing strikes and raids with 9 other players or fractals with 4 other players and the meta with 49 others. So having this one meta event in the game is something special because there is only this one. 

[Erise.5614]

19 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

And there are so many open world metas you can do that don’t need preparation. Why not have one (!) open world meta for players that like a little challenge, even in open world. The meta event is completely optional, you don’t have to do it. So why can’t you let other players have their fun with this one meta event? 

Also, I find this to be a very dishonest way of portraying it.

There is lots of content for players who like it challenging. There's somewhere around 30 metas, including all world bosses.

27 raid encounters. 21 fractals. At least 4 strikes on the difficulty level of soo won or above. 

The argument can be made the other way around just as well. Why can we not have one (!) aspect of the game that's approachable to the general player base? 

Neither argument is good. Both just come down to personal preference. 

Which leaves the problem that a lot of people feel mislead and extremely frustrated. Is that something you endorse? Should such extreme frustration be created by a game? Or should something be changed?
Not difficulty decreased mind you! I'm talking about anything that could decrease frustration. Some suggestions can be found in my previous comment that could improve the situation without modifying difficulty. 

Saying it's perfect as is, is saying you want people to be frustrated and hate their experience on that map. 

[LucianDK.8615]

Anet already made a concession to the average player in making it easier to get the turtle. Outside of maybe adding about 5 minutes to the time, nothing more needs to happen to DE.

[Erise.5614]

1 minute ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

Anet already made a concession to the average player in making it easier to get the turtle. Outside of maybe adding about 5 minutes to the time, nothing more needs to happen to DE.

5 minutes more are a 25% nerf (25% more time = 25% more damage dealt) which would indeed solve the frustrations by making it achievable to the average player. 

But would also be a quite hard nerf. I honestly think they could solve the meta with other tweaks. Keeping it engaging while also having a good success rate. Like, reworking animations to keep hit markers close to the hit box could improve things significantly as well. Or reducing ads in the last phase. The meta is to just stability / aegis through those attacks. But a map without enough stability will just see large parts of the team wipe and not nearly all classes have access to stability. 

There's plenty of fixes to the meta without pulling down such a hard nerf hammer. 

[Kate.3679]

I dunno. I've completed 7 metas in a row now with groups only from LFG. Not any of those elitist groups either, discord (if there is one) is optional and there's no need to ping kp or li. The patch on the 15th made this meta really easy.

[Kaliwenda.3428]

6 hours ago, chronometria.3708 said:

Had a 5 percent fail last night and the anger and bad feeling in the chat was alarming. Anet needs to understand that this event is causing toxic, negative feelings like no other and that's not good for the community or the game.

 

Even while the group was forming there was argument and swearing on the map as the commander was trying to get the whole thing started. It gets worse every day and yet Anet seems to think this is how they want things to be. They should stop looking at completion numbers and go read those chat logs to see the result of their "challenging final meta".

Yesterday on the second run I did (the first one to get to Soo-Won) we had a squad formed and even as we were doing the initial lanes, people in chat were saying "We're just going to fail anyways" and "They should only let good players do this" and stuff like that.  Some people started arguing and it went downhill from there.

The commander ignored all that and kept giving helpful pointers and instructions.

I've seen bad feelings occasionally before , most typically at the Octovine, but it sounds a lot more common at this event. I'll see how it goes the rest of the weekend for me.

 

[Zok.4956]

4 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

There is a difference doing strikes and raids with 9 other players or fractals with 4 other players and the meta with 49 others. So having this one meta event in the game is something special because there is only this one.

I really would like to have that fight/meta as a 50 player instance (like dragonstorm on a timer, or like a strike-cm or raid that can be started any time) where we could just restart the fight if we failed. Would be better and more fun to learn the boss fight for new players after a fail without having to wait around 2 hours and without again doing the preparation/pre-events.

I think the boss fight itself now is OK from mechanics (for fractal/strike/raid players) after the last changes and as such, a lot better and more fun than in the first week. But, as on open world event, it still only has the highest success chance/rate with a pre-made/organized 50 player squad that map hops into an empty/new map instance.  And a lot of maps with players will never get the chance to succeed if they are not able to map hop into an organized/pre-made instance even if the map is able to complete all the pre-events/preparations. That's good for (bigger) guilds and streamers that welcome this as an easy way to get more members/subscribers but I do not think that this is good for the "open world community".

As an open world meta Dragon's End has the same problem as Dragon's Stand: You have to be at a specific time in a map that has enough players to succeed and there is no in-game info about this. And because the Dragon's End boss fight is more challenging than the Dragon' Stand fight (and some squads that are already waiting in the map have hidden tags because they do not want to attract "noobs" (their words, not mine)) this is even worse in Dragon's End. And if you missed that time, you will probably not succeed with the meta and it does not matter how hard you try and if you know how to DPS, CC and jump, or not.

 

[Mickey.4207]

59 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

I really would like to have that fight/meta as a 50 player instance (like dragonstorm on a timer, or like a strike-cm or raid that can be started any time) where we could just restart the fight if we failed. Would be better and more fun to learn the boss fight for new players after a fail without having to wait around 2 hours and without again doing the preparation/pre-events.

I think the boss fight itself now is OK from mechanics (for fractal/strike/raid players) after the last changes and as such, a lot better and more fun than in the first week. But, as on open world event, it still only has the highest success chance/rate with a pre-made/organized 50 player squad that map hops into an empty/new map instance.  And a lot of maps with players will never get the chance to succeed if they are not able to map hop into an organized/pre-made instance even if the map is able to complete all the pre-events/preparations. That's good for (bigger) guilds and streamers that welcome this as an easy way to get more members/subscribers but I do not think that this is good for the "open world community".

As an open world meta Dragon's End has the same problem as Dragon's Stand: You have to be at a specific time in a map that has enough players to succeed and there is no in-game info about this. And because the Dragon's End boss fight is more challenging than the Dragon' Stand fight (and some squads that are already waiting in the map have hidden tags because they do not want to attract "noobs" (their words, not mine)) this is even worse in Dragon's End. And if you missed that time, you will probably not succeed with the meta and it does not matter how hard you try and if you know how to DPS, CC and jump, or not.

 

This its all luck based. I was lucky to find a premade group by map hoping. Not everyone is that lucky. The general chat is toxic and full of angry and frustrated players.

[Kate.3679]

5 hours ago, Ruru.1302 said:

I dunno. I've completed 7 metas in a row now with groups only from LFG. Not any of those elitist groups either, discord (if there is one) is optional and there's no need to ping kp or li. The patch on the 15th made this meta really easy.

Make that 8 in a row actually

Edited March 26, 2022 by Ruru.1302