Project exa.3204 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 As a lifelong ranger I typically look forward to the new specs and finding builds that compliment the new traits. With untamed it really feels like Anet cobbled together a bunch of things from different specs and said "Here you go, figure it out. Do something with your pet." This is unfortunate because untamed has so much potential but it's completely overshadowed by other specs. This is going to be a longer post, so I'll just start with what I think can be done to "fix" untamed. Most of these changes are all related to the pets and are only meant to bring untamed to a more even playing field. How to Fix Untamed Normalize the hammer damage to the same level as when unleashed. The differences in secondary skills (daze, shockwave, etc) while unleashed can stay. This is the bare minimum to just make hammer viable. Give pets increased armor while pet unleashed. While not unleashed they should keep their same stats, but if we're expected to juggle power between the pet and ranger they need to last longer or something else needs to be done to compensate. If you're using cantrip for the heal, your pet is 100% dead because there is no healing for pets in the untamed traitline. Bring dead pets back into action sooner. Either reduce the cd time for their recharge, or make unleashed imbue a small amount of HP to a dead pet to bring it back online. They're dying way too quick with lack of pet healing. Make pet disables count towards Debilitating Blows, Enhancing Impact, and Fervent Force. "If you or your pet disable a foe" should be the hallmark of untamed. Fix Perilous Gift to give SOMETHING to your pet. There's literally no reason any ranger would want to take the cantrip heal over any other heal that will actually restore hp to their pet as well. Rework skills that only apply to the ranger. Restorative Strikes should be "A percentage of the strike damage you deal heals you and your pet" for the same reasons. Problems in sPvP(on the skills and weapon in general) Hammer must be used to take full advantage of unleashed or if you have any plans to do a Cc oriented Untamed build. You can still use other core weapons, and each has their own disables....but nowhere near enough for the disable traitlines to be worth it. So if you plan to try and use Enhancing Impact or Fervent Force, you'll need to use a hammer. Hammer damage is hamstrung by unleashed. Seriously, the base damage of hammer is almost 50% less when the ranger is not unleashed. This seems to actively want to encourage being in ranger unleashed form for damage and pet unleashed for Cc, but what was supposed to happen here? Rangers expected to use other weapons until its time to unleash or else lose up to 50% sustain just for their pets to have 3 extra moves? The alternative is not to use hammer at all, and if you do that with unleashed what are you getting that isn't there for core, SB, or druid? Life siphon on weapon skill #1 on unleashed ambush is cool in theory, and seems to imply that rangers should be leashing / unleashing frequently if they want to siphon life. If you are using a weapon that has a chain of attacks for its #1 then you're likely not going to proc your unleashed ambush unless you are unleashed right exactly before your #1 attack hits. Tested this with greatsword and hammer, and if you're just leashing / unleashing in the middle of combat but hit during one of those chain attacks....you don't get that life siphon damage. Untamed has weak condition management which forces rangers to have to spec into the same tired traits like WS/BM to compensate....which means WS/BM are still staple. I was hoping untamed would give way to some other traitlines that are more viable, but the conditions and survival skills are just too good to not bring with the distinct lack of management on untamed. (on pets) Pets as they currently exist are obsolete when fighting the new specs. Almost every other new spec feels like they can kill a classical ranger pet in very few moves, and there isn't a single pet that can stand up to a jade mech. This must be a mistake for a ranger spec that is supposed to rely heavily on transferring power between itself and the pet. With the untamed heal not providing any support, and almost nothing but cantrip barriers give any survivability to pets. If a pet dies you can still unleash but you as mentioned above with the hamstrung damage, if you're still juggling unleash you lose all the new spec's Cc and sustain. The new pets are "meh" at best, and at worst they're wallows. They all seem to be half something, and half something else...but those two halves create weak combinations that make rangers go back to the classics like smokescale, jacaranda, drake, etc. -Eros of Ascalon 12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crackmonster.2790 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Yes it is a very good post. My overall feeling is that unleash mechanic just feels bad to use, it's super duper stressful to try to take advantage of the unleash skills + pet skills + uptimize unleash on self + get the unleashed ambushes. I don't know why almost every specc in gw2 is trying to be so annoying and complex to pull off - why can't something just be simple and feel good? And yea its so weird like for years the discussions about a pet focused builds were saying that pet dies anyway so it cant be relied on etc etc, now we have a pet centric specc and there's nothing to help the pet survive in there? Truly mysterious. Gonna be honest and say it feel a bit like salt in the wound the look on mech and how they scale with stats and everything. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donut.6914 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 pets definitely need survivability, this is the main thing across the ranger board that needs to happen or else pets will just never be anything. in the past you could make an argument to not buff pets in fear of overtuning them and turning pvp into an AI fest, but now mechanist has the most overtuned pet in the game so that argument is out the window. pets need to be buffed first and foremost. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mell.4873 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 (edited) The bugs should definitely be fixed but I will add Untamed is in no way weak in Pvp. I mean the unleashed skills on the pet devistate downed player and running a cc pet means you can chain stun enemy players after teleporting them in. In wvw, you can precast the pet aoe before you send them and the pet swap once they get low. I mean it won't stop a zerg but you can slow someone down to get some good Longbow shots off. Bear is great for this minus the condition damage it takes. Edited March 6, 2022 by Mell.4873 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krispera.5087 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 21 hours ago, Project exa.3204 said: Make pet disables count towards Debilitating Blows, Enhancing Impact, and Fervent Force. "If you or your pet disable a foe" should be the hallmark of untamed. Seriously, it's the most glaring thing I've seen in this spec. Ranger is the PET class and it was not even implanted. How come Pet disables doesn't work for us, but it works on the pet's F1-F2-F3 when WE disable ??? Also, Pet survivability was not even in the thoughts when they made the elite spec. If anything, the pet should be near unkillable in Unleashed mode, that would be help a lot in ''oh sHiet'' situation in PvP and WvW. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ehecatl.9172 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 I agree with all your suggestions for the most part. Especially when it comes to the pet not benefiting from the ranger's skills and traits. If this is supposed to be a pet focused spec then the pet should benefit from the ranger's choices just as much, and maybe more, than the ranger themselves do. Unleashed should make the pet tankier since even while Unleashed their damage isn't much to write home about and they can still be accidentally evaded. The heal should also give the pet those few seconds of "cannot die" since if the ranger is in a scenario where they might die the pet will definitely die. My only concern would be Fervent Force proccing off pet stuns. That's a really strong effect and some of our pets are packing a lot of control. Still, it'd probably make for the best representative of the fabled Bunny Thumper that Anet were aiming for. Keep the enemy's face in the dirt for as long as possible and wail on them. As for healing the pet, what if the longer your ranger stayed Unleashed the more HP a downed pet would get when you push Unleashed back to them? Say after 2 seconds it comes back at 10% HP and after 20 seconds it comes back at full. That way the Untamed is never without their pet companion for more than 20 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Sequeira.3198 Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Uh, Perilous Gift already gives the *can't die* and the heal that follows to both player and pet, what do you mean when you talked about this skill? @Project exa.3204 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philvaneyck.1932 Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 mech deals more damage than pet x.x 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfHeart.1256 Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 (edited) 23 hours ago, Mell.4873 said: I will add Untamed is in no way weak in Pvp. I mean the unleashed skills on the pet devistate downed player [...] Yes, if you like having 1/5 party slots be there just to devastate downed players...it's great. First, you gotta generate those downed players. They work because the downed player isn't going anywhere. Try devastating a moving target with them. The fact that the mech is really more useful than any of the ranger pets is hilarious. I think the Untamed is definitely the under-performer of all the ranger's elite specs, after having it tried this week. It might be decent in PvE, but it's completely under-powered in other game modes like PvP and WvW, way behind soulbeast and druid. The cantrips are so easily avoided or blocked, they are almost useless unless you use them on NPCs. The only one that is any good is the teleport, and the elite only if you get Fervent Force, otherwise it's not worth the long CD. For Exploding Spores to actually be any good, the enemy has to be hit by ALL the spores, if you're gonna get the knockdown off. The chances of that happening if you're not fighting an NPC... Perilous Gift is so easily rendered useless with the application of Poison... I've used it b Unleashed Ambush is super unreliable in PvP or WvW during that window, don't even count on it if you are using weapons with attack chains. This should have been the first attack of the chain on any weapon, after swap. And the most annoying change of all, is how the pet attack/return buttons were added as F6-F7 ...this "fix" in the beta alone gave me a real sense of how much thought was put into the Untamed. Compared to other professions. After 9 years of playing ranger, all of this just feels so disappointing. Edited March 6, 2022 by WolfHeart.1256 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mell.4873 Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 1 hour ago, WolfHeart.1256 said: Yes, if you like having 1/5 party slots be there just to devastate downed players...it's great. First, you gotta generate those downed players. They work because the downed player isn't going anywhere. Try devastating a moving target with them. The fact that the mech is really more useful than any of the ranger pets is hilarious. I think the Untamed is definitely the under-performer of all the ranger's elite specs, after having it tried this week. It might be decent in PvE, but it's completely under-powered in other game modes like PvP and WvW, way behind soulbeast and druid. The cantrips are so easily avoided or blocked, they are almost useless unless you use them on NPCs. The only one that is any good is the teleport, and the elite only if you get Fervent Force, otherwise it's not worth the long CD. For Exploding Spores to actually be any good, the enemy has to be hit by ALL the spores, if you're gonna get the knockdown off. The chances of that happening if you're not fighting an NPC... Perilous Gift is so easily rendered useless with the application of Poison... I've used it b Unleashed Ambush is super unreliable in PvP or WvW during that window, don't even count on it if you are using weapons with attack chains. This should have been the first attack of the chain on any weapon, after swap. And the most annoying change of all, is how the pet attack/return buttons were added as F6-F7 ...this "fix" in the beta alone gave me a real sense of how much thought was put into the Untamed. Compared to other professions. After 9 years of playing ranger, all of this just feels so disappointing. I will say the ambush mechanic is half complete since it would be nice not ground target the bow ambush or have the axe ambush actually track people. I think you can change the pet attack and return buttons? I mean I don't use F1 anyway so I can set those to pet commands. Hiting the exploding spores is the art of using Untamed. I try and set the spike trap into spore or the reverse. People can endless chase me only have to remove themselves from meleeing me due to the scary spores. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telgum.6071 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, WolfHeart.1256 said: And the most annoying change of all, is how the pet attack/return buttons were added as F6-F7 ...this "fix" in the beta alone gave me a real sense of how much thought was put into the Untamed. Compared to other professions. This change alone tell us how many Anet employees play Ranger 🤪 Edited March 7, 2022 by Telgum.6071 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurantien.4632 Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 (edited) The problems with untamed are the same problems with any ranger specialization. We can't go tanky because if we do we dont have the damage to kill people efficiently enough and pets will just get obliterated in some match ups. So that means ranger is left as a roamer... which untamed actually does a pretty good job at because it has a teleport. Untamed is actually better than I initially thought in PvP. Some hammer skills need some updates imo like hammer 4 and the third auto chain needs something added, and maybe some increased range on some skills but the rest of the kit is actually pretty solid now that I have played with it for awhile. I know its a new season but currently in top 10 on NA and have won my last 17/18 games on untamed. Playing with hammer. Edited March 7, 2022 by Eurantien.4632 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thornwolf.9721 Posted March 11, 2022 Share Posted March 11, 2022 Core pets need to be completely reworked and have needed that since PoF. Like bears, wolves, most of the drakes and so on are garbo. The cats outside of lynx, white tiger and tiger are meh. The birds can stay as they are, wyverns are poopy too? I don't know it just feels like its smokescale/rock-stag/jac or bust most of the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar.3568 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 On 3/6/2022 at 9:29 PM, WolfHeart.1256 said: And the most annoying change of all, is how the pet attack/return buttons were added as F6-F7 ...this "fix" in the beta alone gave me a real sense of how much thought was put into the Untamed. Compared to other professions. Thank God that anet actually thought about it and made a second bind with shift+3 and shift+4 for f6 and f7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arheundel.6451 Posted March 12, 2022 Share Posted March 12, 2022 On 3/7/2022 at 2:15 PM, Eurantien.4632 said: The problems with untamed are the same problems with any ranger specialization. We can't go tanky because if we do we dont have the damage to kill people efficiently enough and pets will just get obliterated in some match ups. So that means ranger is left as a roamer... which untamed actually does a pretty good job at because it has a teleport. Untamed is actually better than I initially thought in PvP. Some hammer skills need some updates imo like hammer 4 and the third auto chain needs something added, and maybe some increased range on some skills but the rest of the kit is actually pretty solid now that I have played with it for awhile. I know its a new season but currently in top 10 on NA and have won my last 17/18 games on untamed. Playing with hammer. Good thing that this game is so well balanced than typically no professions can go tanky while doing damage, in that regard ranger is well balance ...yeah...because other professions need also to give up sustain for damage........ohhh wait..wrong game sorry my bad, almost forgot about revenants, engis, necros and guardians....they belong to another game obviously....-_-.... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project exa.3204 Posted March 12, 2022 Author Share Posted March 12, 2022 On 3/7/2022 at 9:15 AM, Eurantien.4632 said: I know its a new season but currently in top 10 on NA and have won my last 17/18 games on untamed. Playing with hammer. I've actually warmed up a lot more to Untamed over the last two weeks. Also using hammer since I'm still convinced the best untamed builds will use it. I'm finding more and more now there are TONS of combos that can be pulled off. I still feel like pets should get a bit of a buff and maybe hammer damage just normalized, but the burst is definitely there. It does much better in team fights than it does in 1:1s. Might make a follow up post when I hit plat. Currently working up through G3, doing nothing but trial and error with untamed builds till I hit this one with Untamed / Wilderness Survival / Skirmishing -Eros of Ascalon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acyk.9671 Posted March 13, 2022 Share Posted March 13, 2022 (edited) deleted Edited March 13, 2022 by Acyk.9671 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anduriell.6280 Posted March 15, 2022 Share Posted March 15, 2022 I think is too late to be asking for fixes now... Remember this is an open world elite by anet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonzhunter.8506 Posted March 16, 2022 Share Posted March 16, 2022 (edited) On 3/7/2022 at 6:15 AM, Eurantien.4632 said: The problems with untamed are the same problems with any ranger specialization. We can't go tanky because if we do we dont have the damage to kill people efficiently enough and pets will just get obliterated in some match ups. So that means ranger is left as a roamer... which untamed actually does a pretty good job at because it has a teleport. Untamed is actually better than I initially thought in PvP. Some hammer skills need some updates imo like hammer 4 and the third auto chain needs something added, and maybe some increased range on some skills but the rest of the kit is actually pretty solid now that I have played with it for awhile. I know its a new season but currently in top 10 on NA and have won my last 17/18 games on untamed. Playing with hammer. Eurantien, would you please post your build/setup for Untamed? (For sPVP or Roaming) I came back for more than 1-year break and I didn't test enough this specialization. I mean I tried a few times as a roamer on WvW, but Soulbeast seems to be way stronger. Maybe I didn't choose the right traits/weapons for Untamed. Thank you! PS: this is what I am playing now: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAweJllyUZsMPmLeSX7RrSeQaA-zVRYBBLG2JoxZZ1zI-w for roaming and http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAweJllyUZsMPmLeSX7RrSeQaA-z5QXCyOA sPVP Edited March 17, 2022 by Dragonzhunter.8506 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Fro.6953 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 I really enjoy Untamed, and this was still a really meaningful post with a lot of merit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abyssisis.3971 Posted March 17, 2022 Share Posted March 17, 2022 I’ve been toying around with playing very tankish while dealing ranged damage spikes with call lightning from jacaranda and spike barrage from bristleback. Calling it now, call lightning will see nerfs… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eurantien.4632 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 (edited) On 3/16/2022 at 7:22 PM, Dragonzhunter.8506 said: Eurantien, would you please post your build/setup for Untamed? (For sPVP or Roaming) I came back for more than 1-year break and I didn't test enough this specialization. I mean I tried a few times as a roamer on WvW, but Soulbeast seems to be way stronger. Maybe I didn't choose the right traits/weapons for Untamed. Thank you! PS: this is what I am playing now: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAweJllyUZsMPmLeSX7RrSeQaA-zVRYBBLG2JoxZZ1zI-w for roaming and http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAweJllyUZsMPmLeSX7RrSeQaA-z5QXCyOA sPVP This is one of the better all around builds:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAMFlZwWZssQmLOWXrR9Sk+HA-zZILjMrgeTBPGA This is my take on untamed. If hammer ever gets a little love this build will be very good imo.http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAIFlZwWZssQmLOeXrRrCsmA-zZAPkGFCZKDCYBogB Edited March 19, 2022 by Eurantien.4632 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Project exa.3204 Posted March 19, 2022 Author Share Posted March 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Eurantien.4632 said: This is my take on untamed. If hammer ever gets a little love this build will be very good imo.http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAIFlZwWZssQmLOeXrRrCsmA-zZAPkGFCZKDCYBogB Hammer / Greatsword I REALLY tried to work when I first started on untamed. Felt like it should be right, especially with unnatural traversal, but I just couldn't land any good combos. Now I'm able to land much better combos so I think I'll give this another shot! Below is what I've been running with the last several games. Meant to stay under permafury with extra high crits. I use axe / horn to ramp up my might really quickly then go in for the kills with hammer combos. Lacks on the 1v1 fighting but does really well in team fights and has good cleave for downshttp://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwEI6MssAWHbjpycxi9JNWXy0qA-zZAPkeVBFMBqYIIoB -Eros of Ascalon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonzhunter.8506 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 4 hours ago, Eurantien.4632 said: This is one of the better all around builds:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAMFlZwWZssQmLOWXrR9Sk+HA-zZILjMrgeTBPGA This is my take on untamed. If hammer ever gets a little love this build will be very good imo.http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAIFlZwWZssQmLOeXrRrCsmA-zZAPkGFCZKDCYBogB Thx Eurantien! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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