Invigorating precision nerf made it useless

[Sentinel VX.1392]

That trait was useful for self sustain before, but the nerf from 20 to 6 with fury pretty much made it useless even when cleaving multiple enemies the healing amount is rather pathetic with full damage build.

 

The trait is not even part of any meta builds and now no one will probably ever use it now.

[Naxx.6203]

50 minutes ago, Sentinel VX.1392 said:

That trait was useful for self sustain

That trait was broken not useful and I'm saying this as Thief main. 20% healing on-hit without any internal cd was definitely overpowered and needed significant nerf. Thief's sustain and tankiness comes from active evading and reacting and shouldn't be fully depended on one trait. Given that you could just Vault/Dagger Storm on 5 targets and instantly heals + 50% of hp was absurd. 

Well nerfing it from 20% to 6% is a significant hit but I suppose they've done math thus it still will be useful in certain situations.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Nawrotex.9521

[Sentinel VX.1392]

1 minute ago, Nawrotex.9521 said:

That trait was broken not useful and I'm saying this as Thief main. 20% healing on-hit was definitely overpowered and needed significant nerf. Thief's sustain and tankiness comes from active evading and reacting and should be fully depended on one trait. Given that you could just Vault/Dagger Storm on 5 targets and instantly heals + 50% of hp was absurd. 

Well nerfing it from 20% to 6% is a significant hit but I suppose they've done math thus it still will be useful in certain situations.

20% was indeed easy mode for open world, but 6% is way too low for the healing to be noticeable after I did some testing.

[Sentinel VX.1392]

Also for open world thief doesn't have a lot of self sustain option(blind doesn't work with defiance bar enemies) and sometimes dodging all of the enemies attack is not possible since you don't have infinite stamina.

 

This trait is especially useful for solo players where no one can heal you as well.

 

I mean you are already sacrificing dps trait for a defensive one.

 

10% probably can still make the trait useful instead of a merely 6%.

[Doggie.3184]

I think Anet forgot that despite making a support oriented spec to make Thief desireable in all game modes it's not going to do the same for the other two elite specs. There shouldn't of been any nerfs period~ unless they really only want us to play one spec forever.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Doggie.3184

[Stx.4857]

2 hours ago, Nawrotex.9521 said:

That trait was broken not useful and I'm saying this as Thief main. 20% healing on-hit without any internal cd was definitely overpowered and needed significant nerf. Thief's sustain and tankiness comes from active evading and reacting and shouldn't be fully depended on one trait. Given that you could just Vault/Dagger Storm on 5 targets and instantly heals + 50% of hp was absurd. 

Well nerfing it from 20% to 6% is a significant hit but I suppose they've done math thus it still will be useful in certain situations.

I would say given that power Thief was no where near the top of the Solo build hierarchy, that the trait was not overpowered.   

 

All that this nerf will do is push thieves to Condition builds for soloing challenging content. Which lowers build diversity and that's a bad thing.

[Kain.2310]

Quote

That trait was broken not useful and I'm saying this as Thief main. 20% healing on-hit without any internal cd was definitely overpowered and needed significant nerf. Thief's sustain and tankiness comes from active evading and reacting and shouldn't be fully depended on one trait. Given that you could just Vault/Dagger Storm on 5 targets and instantly heals + 50% of hp was absurd. 

Well nerfing it from 20% to 6% is a significant hit but I suppose they've done math thus it still will be useful in certain situations.

if it really overpowers or makes thief invincible like everyone (who know nothing about thief) said, thief would dominate any game mode since 2015. and you seem to forget that it has 3-4 conditions that would make this trait reach it full potential.

-fury needs to be active, thief has 4-5 traits that generate fury and all of it has downtime
-health generate from damage which means thief need be on offense
-thief use initiative system which can only be active for a few second and has serious downtime

for someone who claims to be a 'main' thief and yet seems to know nothing and call it's broken said so much about yourself.

Edited March 5, 2022 by Kain.2310

[Naxx.6203]

8 minutes ago, Kain.2310 said:

-fury needs to be active, thief has 4-5 traits that generate fury and all of it has downtime

You can easily maintain 80% fury uptime with offensive build and even 100% if you just slot pack runes. I don't see confusion here.

19 minutes ago, Kain.2310 said:

-health generate from damage which means thief need be on offense

Talking about Deadeye? Nah 1200 range, cripple, kite and you're good to go. Daredevil? Weave and time correctly your dodges with Vaults and your untouchable. You can even slot energy sigil and Roll For Initiative to feel more secure. Core? Well go condi.

23 minutes ago, Kain.2310 said:

-thief use initiative system which can only be active for a few second and has serious downtime

It has downtime if you just mindlessly spam your abilities. Same as above, slot trickery, take your initiative regen ultilities, weave energy with initiative and you're good to go.

[Naxx.6203]

52 minutes ago, Stx.4857 said:

I would say given that power Thief was no where near the top of the Solo build hierarchy, that the trait was not overpowered.   

 

All that this nerf will do is push thieves to Condition builds for soloing challenging content. Which lowers build diversity and that's a bad thing.

For general open world solo stuff daredevil was perfectly fine, easily placed at A/S tier solo class if you know what you do. Problem is if you want to solo really challenging content, you generally don't want to go Power. Condition builds are superior for that and always will be.

[Stx.4857]

1 hour ago, Nawrotex.9521 said:

For general open world solo stuff daredevil was perfectly fine, easily placed at A/S tier solo class if you know what you do. Problem is if you want to solo really challenging content, you generally don't want to go Power. Condition builds are superior for that and always will be.

You made my point.  Condition builds were already better at surviving, so why nerf power sustain specifically?  That makes no sense.  

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

You can replace it w/ Signet of Malice, but I'm not really a fan of that (not only is it yet another boring passive effect, but you lose i.e. the stealth bonus you could prep w/ Hide in Shadows). It kinda kills build variety - and no, Invigorating Precision was not a staple 'take it always' -type of pick, anyways. But in most larger encounters, much less boss ones, you'll want at least a bit of sustain.

Invigorating Precision made core open world trivial as far as, well, anything goes. That's true. But is the solution really gutting the entire trait? At the end of the day, you still needed to be actively on the offense to maintain the healing. And that, imo, isn't fundamentally bad design. 

ALSO, condition builds were already superior at the sustain/dps -balance act. In order to reap the better benefits of Invigorating Precision, you had to be fairly glassy (compared to MANY other builds, anyways).  IF ANYTHING, they should support power-based builds more in the open world long encounters (i.e. events with immobile enemies etc).

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

2 hours ago, Nawrotex.9521 said:

Talking about Deadeye? Nah 1200 range, cripple, kite and you're good to go. Daredevil? Weave and time correctly your dodges with Vaults and your untouchable. You can even slot energy sigil and Roll For Initiative to feel more secure. Core? Well go condi.

1) Rifle deadeye sucks at soloing bounties, and the pistol main condi variant is reliant on the non-range hate (i.e. the critical point unstable magic buff). It's great for world bosses and other events, though (i.e. Gerent) - but you do not need IP in those, lol. 
You're doing subpar damage compared to daredevil unless you can consistently stay still and kneel. That's just a fact.

2) "Weaving in Vault" - what kinda builds do that? That's awful DPS. You use Vault to close gaps where you'd lose DPS walking, otherwise. Occasionally you MAY use it improvise in a DPS rotation. 

3) All of this is valid if you're doing core game open world trash. I'd imagine MOST of us are concerned about the "end-game" solo encounters, though. Legendary bounties, you know the jazz.

[BobbyT.7192]

All I will say thats it not worth it GM slot any more, drop it down into adept and give it a secondary effect.

[Zacchary.6183]

Maybe thieves will start using Assassin's Reward and Signet of malice in conjunction with it now.

[Vennyhedgie.5369]

I had been doing all the "Return to" achievements on my thief (either Daredevil or Deadeye) because the trait was a great way of keeping you up while still doing good damage for most story / open world content. While I haven't tested it since the update, going from 20 to 6 % just sounds straight up absurd. There's no reason to run this trait now. When you have a choice between two traits, one has to weight the other. 

One of the worst things about GW2 imo is how many damage multiplier traits there are. I think they are incredibly boring. As it stands, the damage increase trait now outweights the lifesteal by so much it's not worth even considering. The damage increase from the trait will make you kill things faster, therefore it's always the best option. Unless the lifesteal is noticeable, as it was before, the choice becomes trivial.

[HotDelirium.7984]

On 3/5/2022 at 3:54 AM, Sentinel VX.1392 said:

That trait was useful for self sustain before, but the nerf from 20 to 6 with fury pretty much made it useless even when cleaving multiple enemies the healing amount is rather pathetic with full damage build.

 

The trait is not even part of any meta builds and now no one will probably ever use it now.

A nerf without compensation is unfortunate. If they are trying to steer us into the thief evades more as their "sustain" then allow that trait to give us vigor or endurance. Not everyone wants to take Acrobatics (per their build) so this is a great way to give us a tiny bit of endurance/evade efficiency.

[kanatakamura.7502]

On 3/5/2022 at 9:33 AM, Nawrotex.9521 said:

That trait was broken not useful and I'm saying this as Thief main. 20% healing on-hit without any internal cd was definitely overpowered and needed significant nerf. Thief's sustain and tankiness comes from active evading and reacting and shouldn't be fully depended on one trait. Given that you could just Vault/Dagger Storm on 5 targets and instantly heals + 50% of hp was absurd. 

Well nerfing it from 20% to 6% is a significant hit but I suppose they've done math thus it still will be useful in certain situations.

???????????????????????????????????????? soo are u just ignoring that all of the other class are way more op than thief with or without this trait???????????? kitten I can solo legs easy on my power warrior, firebrand?????? u are literally unkillable? condi rev?????? Like what even is ur point soo u think all the other classes should be nerfed into oblivion right? Power reaper with 10k+ autos? 2 hp bars? great point make thief even more weak compared to the other classes WAY TO GO BRO! They are doing this to push that all thiefs to play wallmart necro I mean specter

Edited March 7, 2022 by kanatakamura.7502

[Gadzooks.4687]

Another example of Anet nerfing something because the minority hardcore abusing something that the majority of average players only got a comfortably fun bonus from.

 

perhaps they just need to make bonuses different in more than just pvp and pve content. If the min/maxers are finding OP things, then just change how it works in strikes/raids etc. Leave open world alone.

[Naxx.6203]

1 hour ago, kanatakamura.7502 said:

???????????????????????????????????????? soo are u just ignoring that all of the other class are way more op than thief with or without this trait???????????? kitten I can solo legs easy on my power warrior, firebrand?????? u are literally unkillable? condi rev?????? Like what even is ur point soo u think all the other classes should be nerfed into oblivion right? Power reaper with 10k+ autos? 2 hp bars? great point make thief even more weak compared to the other classes WAY TO GO BRO! They are doing this to push that all thiefs to play wallmart necro I mean specter

I think you missed that all of profession's sustain traits got heavily nerfed in recent patch notes not only thief's.

[kanatakamura.7502]

8 minutes ago, Nawrotex.9521 said:

I think you missed that all of profession's sustain traits got heavily nerfed in recent patch notes not only thief's.

idk dude hitting 70-80k on my dragons slashes and healing for 8% soo 6.4k - 4.8k heal every 8 seconds with 2.2k toughness seem to disagree with that + the 2 stacks of combat stimulant + the extra charge from the ultimate, idk about the other classes since they are boring af and I only play warrior and thief, but the last time I saw an fb, reaper and condi rev it was pretty dumb to play solo group content, still doesnt change the fact that nerfing a trait that isnt even meta doesnt make any sense, anet just like to push 1 iq condi builds and the sub par new specs like walmart necro 

Edited March 7, 2022 by kanatakamura.7502

[Nimbus Nomad.1237]

I've been running invigorating precisions with signet heal in openworld content and it's far from useless. Maybe it's the signet heal doing most of the work, but regardless you are still virtually unkillable in solo/open world content(including hero point challenges) with this combo. 

[Tsumiju.3071]

I still don't understand the reason for nerfing traits like this, it's not like we're doing a massive heal that makes us unkillable in the first place.

[Westenev.5289]

On 3/8/2022 at 6:47 AM, Nimbus Nomad.1237 said:

I've been running invigorating precisions with signet heal in openworld content and it's far from useless. Maybe it's the signet heal doing most of the work, but regardless you are still virtually unkillable in solo/open world content(including hero point challenges) with this combo. 

 

I've been running IP on daredevil, and I can definitely feel the nerf in open world/story. Instead of pouncing into groups of enemies like a pre-nerf daredevil, I'm inclined to slot a stealth skill and hide until my cooldowns/dodges come back.

 

It's not unplayable, in fact, it's still probably my best class - but it's definitely more uncomfortable to play.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Westenev.5289

[kanatakamura.7502]

On 3/7/2022 at 2:47 PM, Nimbus Nomad.1237 said:

I've been running invigorating precisions with signet heal in openworld content and it's far from useless. Maybe it's the signet heal doing most of the work, but regardless you are still virtually unkillable in solo/open world content(including hero point challenges) with this combo. 

I belive we are talking about soling actual stuff not hp (expect some hot ones like balthazar) , anything can solo hps, soloing dungeons and legs with a 70% cut on the sustain is terrible, its literally better to just quit the class and play some other class or just quit the game

[borgs.6103]

Its still good. It was over-the-top before on mobs. I don't notice the nerf at all on open world events and whatnot. 

It is pretty noticeable though on story boss fights where I now press my heal button sometimes instead of never.