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Alt friendliness, Jade Bots, and Fishing


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EOD is completely unfriendly to alt characters. After years of encouraging people to have as many as they want, with many people having 20 or more alts, both fishing and Jade bots are completely alt-unfriendly.

Fishing requires you pile items on every character to access it, and jade bots just out and out don't work on alts without a huge investment due to the cores being per-character.

Even when core prices come down from the current heights caused by the earlier issues with research notes, equipping 20+ characters will add up to a huge time and money investment. And that's assuming you can just give them all Lvl 1 and not get gear checked everywhere for not having lvl 10 on everyone, which is insanely expensive.

No other mastery IN THE ENTIRE GAME has ever worked this way, with good reason. If you had to unlock the skyscale per character, players would have left the game. The jade cores need to be account wide, and the fishing supplies need to go in the materials storage for any alt to use.

Edited by Boogiepop Void.6473
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This is my biggest complaint about EoD. I am loving almost everything, but this change is baffling to me. I have 18 characters, and will probably make more; one of the reasons I love GW2 so much is because it is so alt-friendly. I love making new alts, coming up with characters for them, and making new outfits. While waiting for EoD I tried out FF14 and hated how everything was bound to one character. Coming back to GW2 for EoD only to discover they've done the same thing was really disappointing. I have zero clue why they decided to suddenly change this after 10 years.

 

Especially when it requires you having to redo the story, and you can't skip any of the dialogue... I really hope they reconsider all of this. 

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The jade bot seems to work like armor and weapons. It’s not about alt friendliness. They have their reasons for it and honestly this game is the most alt friendly game I’ve ever played. Maybe they will add legendary bot upgrades in the future that works same way as legendary gear. Sure it would be more convenient to automatically have the same upgrades for all characters but since gear in general don’t do that it’s not so weird that bots don’t either. Just my two cents 

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1 hour ago, Doggie.3184 said:

They should make a bait inventory and make it account-wide honestly. Certainly makes me feel like they want to intentionally clog our inventory but I've already bought every bag slot Anet, what more do you want from me? lol

Have you done it on every character?

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5 hours ago, Boogiepop Void.6473 said:

EOD is completely unfriendly to alt characters. After years of encouraging people to have as many as they want, with many people having 20 or more alts, both fishing and Jade bots are completely alt-unfriendly.

Fishing requires you pile items on every character to access it, and jade bots just out and out don't work on alts without a huge investment due to the cores being per-character.

Even when core prices come down from the current heights caused by the earlier issues with research notes, equipping 20+ characters will add up to a huge time and money investment. No other mastery IN THE ENTIRE GAME has ever worked this way, with good reason. If you had to unlock the skyscale per character, players would have left the game. The jade cores need to be account wide, and the fishing supplies need to go in the materials storage for any alt to use.

Side note, I sold my core for 30g on day 1, and bought it back for 5g on day 4. 

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2 hours ago, Freya.9075 said:

The jade bot seems to work like armor and weapons. It’s not about alt friendliness. They have their reasons for it and honestly this game is the most alt friendly game I’ve ever played. Maybe they will add legendary bot upgrades in the future that works same way as legendary gear. Sure it would be more convenient to automatically have the same upgrades for all characters but since gear in general don’t do that it’s not so weird that bots don’t either. Just my two cents 

Weapons and armor fall out fo the sky by playing. Most players have plenty of weapons and armor to spare just sitting around form playing. Jade Bot cores do not. It's a crafted item that requires playing a single map and a large investment of time and money to produce. If they want it to work like weapons and armor, it has to work like that in terms of acquisition, not just systemic function.

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For the core problem, maybe it could be addressed with Jeweler 500. They could tweak a bit trinkets so they aren't as incredibly cheap in some parts while absurdly expensive in comparison on others, like replacing the 5 laurel cost with a single  relatively cheap 'Grandmaster Jeweler Marks" that requires ascended jeweler, and replace part of the coin and map currency cost of some of the cheapest ones with 1 grandmaster mark to put them on the same line. Of course some trinkets like raid ones would still be exempt of marks like other ascended gear from that content.


Then introduce ascended cores. And maybe instead increasing vitality by 5% to 245, they could give an effect that gives you a battery charge every 30s if you don't have at least 1 battery charge. This way ascended cores would help you when you find a random jade chest and there aren't any batteries nearby, but would still need batteries for repeated use like the protocols.  Ascended cores should not be too expensive, like just the cost of 2 Tier 10 cores plus a xunlai electrum.
Finally, add a relatively cheap 'legendary' recipe for cores that is about as expensive as crafting just 5 to 10 ascended cores.

Or just use the exotic T10 as the legendary precursor, and make the legendary cost the equivalent of 10 T10 cores plus a few stuff from various EoD maps like gifts of Cantha.

For the fishing issue, maybe lures and bait could work more like single use finishers: consume them and they go to the account's "Tackle Bag" where they would stack. Once there you can't take them out, but can click the bait and lure slots in the Fishing panel to see all you have unlocked and select them to use.

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The jade bot one is annoying made extra annoying by requiring you to be at a bench to make changes. I see the problem going away in the long term since I doubt I will be swapping modules.

Fishing is just extending a bad system(gathering) and giving it a worse UI/UX.

3 hours ago, MithranArkanere.8957 said:

For the fishing issue, maybe lures and bait could work more like single use finishers: consume them and they go to the account's "Tackle Bag" where they would stack. Once there you can't take them out, but can click the bait and lure slots in the Fishing panel to see all you have unlocked and select them to use.

That would allow people to stock up on the lures and baits. How are they going to sell the unlimited bait and lure on the gemstore?

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To be honest, I feel that the fishing bait and lures should be done away with and that your fishing power is something that you get with mastery increases and collections that give permanent account buffs and other temporary buffs per character; for example, when you complete a heart you can buy a temporary buff for karma.

The jade cores I feel differently about. It is a pain with the research notes but I'm not against having to craft items for each character. Who knows...maybe legendary cores in the future?

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It makes me feel like it's not worth fishing on alts, because I don't want to take up a bunch of inventory slots on every char just to have a stock of bait/lures.

 

I would have liked to be able to finish the fishing collections just by occasionally fishing if I came across a hole whilst exploring or whatever, but it seems like I'll end up just farming it on one character... which is a lot less fun!

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6 minutes ago, Lottie.5370 said:

It makes me feel like it's not worth fishing on alts, because I don't want to take up a bunch of inventory slots on every char just to have a stock of bait/lures.

 

I would have liked to be able to finish the fishing collections just by occasionally fishing if I came across a hole whilst exploring or whatever, but it seems like I'll end up just farming it on one character... which is a lot less fun!

A permanent bank item is such an incredible wonder here.

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7 minutes ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

A permanent bank item is such an incredible wonder here.

 

That's something like 4000g and also requires having a lot of free bank slots (nearly all of my tabs are already filled with other items), it is not a realistic solution.

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7 minutes ago, Lottie.5370 said:

 

That's something like 4000g and also requires having a lot of free bank slots (nearly all of my tabs are already filled with other items), it is not a realistic solution.

Huh, just seeing its 5800g now.

I got it while it was 3000g.

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Lets design something clever over alt friendlinest? Fishing for a start. My main unlocked fishing but remains the only toon out of my 12 that can actually fish. Really do not want to do the fishing quest 11 times ok. 

Same goes for turtle mouny, boat mount, jade bot. Just 1 unlock and the benefits should be account wide? 

Please don't make me do the story 11 times on 11 toons

Edited by medivh.4725
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Side Note, i have 20 lvl 80 chars and

It took me many months to farm winterberrys, to give all my alts ascended pieces, and it took me also many months to play fractal dailys, so i could give them all infusions with enough ar for fracs lvl 100.

It took me only 3 hours to farm enough jade on dragons end, so i was able to craft a lvl 1 core for all alts and upgrade the core of my Main to lvl 8. And i see no problem in upgrading them all step by step in the next months, without any rush.

It has always been time and gold consulting to equip your alts with good gear, and this jade bot and especially the fishing is extremly cheap compared with ascended and legendary gear or this +5 stat infusions.

Edited by Keymaster.7362
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26 minutes ago, Keymaster.7362 said:

It has always been time and gold consulting to equip your alts with good gear, and this jade bot and especially the fishing is extremly cheap compared with ascended and legendary gear or this +5 stat infusions.

Masteries and gear are different. Entire mechanics are locked out entirely without a jade bot core. If you have slightly bad armor you can still do everything. No jade bot core means you actively can't do certain things. Game function is locked to specific characters. Imagine if you had to earn gliding or mounts for ever single alt. Would that be OK? Mastery functionality and gear are not equivalent.

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39 minutes ago, Boogiepop Void.6473 said:

 Imagine if you had to earn gliding or mounts for ever single alt. Would that be OK? Mastery functionality and gear are not equivalent.

If it's only on the cheap price of farming 5 to10 minuts or invest 1 gold (the price will fall drastically in the next weeks) to craft and unlook this masterys on a alt, i see absolutely no problem in it. I am able and willing to invest this time to see my chars grow.

Don't get me wrong, i also love the ability to use the glider and mounts from the start.

But in difference to the mounts, the core is locked behind lvl 80, it is technicaly a gear for extra stats and everyone can equip it without the mastery. The mastery itself is out of cantha kinda useless.

You can share your one core around the Bank and you don't need the jade bot right away on every single char. It can be a good and funny goal to archieve this bots on all chars step by step in the next weeks.

Edited by Keymaster.7362
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2 hours ago, medivh.4725 said:

Lets design something clever over alt friendlinest? Fishing for a start. My main unlocked fishing but remains the only toon out of my 12 that can actually fish. Really do not want to do the fishing quest 11 times ok. 

Same goes for turtle mount and boat mount. Just 1 unlock and benefits should be account wide? 

Please don't make me do the story 11 times on 11 toons

That is not how fishing works. Once you get the rod it is available on all characters. Then you need to buy either lure or bait for every character. You should get both since they both give fishing power but only one is required to fish. You do not need to do the story on more than one character.

The bot sensory array only seems to work in Kaineng so far so I guess that eliminates another thing to bother with ...

Edited by Khisanth.2948
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I would say, make the cores account wide but the modules per character. So you have a bit of both, you can feel the progression by crafting the modules (and you require the workbench to swap them) and all your alts can gather battery and do stuff as soon they hit Cantha.

 

I've got more than 30 alts and if I decide to bring one new to Cantha, I have to log into my jeweler to craft a tier 1 jade core before being able to enjoy the expansion, every single time. 

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Yeah its really a pain needing to craft cores and modules and getting fishing supplies on each character and really goes against the core concept of what masteries were promoted as and have been since heart of thorns: horizontal account progression beyond level 80 thats not directly tied to combat. Bot upgrades really change horizontal progression to vertical as you inevetably want each character to ideally have tier 10 core and few choices for tier 3 modules (well you could sacrifice 3 account wide bag slots for it, but thats such an uneccesary encumberence) and fishing you want to sacrifice inventory space on each character for supplies which again is an unessesary encumerence and goes against idea of masteries.

best solutions would be for cores and modules to change into account wide unlocks that cost more to craft but are one time unlock deal (still require workbench to unlock functionality) and fishing stuff to go to account wide storage thus preserving the idea of masteries.

Edited by NIHILUS.4168
Articulations an ongoing procesess
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23 hours ago, Boogiepop Void.6473 said:

Imagine if you had to earn gliding or mounts for ever single alt. Would that be OK? Mastery functionality and gear are not equivalent.

 

I feel like this is a bad comparison, because in all honesty part of the reason that the mastery system is so boring and unintuitive is because you only need to unlock everything once for it to be available forever on all your toons on the account. It's insane power creep for new characters and just makes expansion maps (PARTICULARLY PoF, HoT is less of a problem since those maps are always player dense) more lackluster.

 

Fishing and Jade bots are a problem because of the economic aspect inherent to them and the fact they're tied to specific story steps per character. I wouldn't have a problem unlocking them on each alt individually via experience since I'm playing the maps anyway, and same goes for all other masteries.

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