Are strike missions going to succeed where raid failed?

[Dean.3056]

no, there is no single strike that is better than a raid.
They have maybe more people because most people are filthy casual who cannot bear the challenge of raids.

[Dark Red Killian.3946]

On 3/14/2022 at 10:54 PM, Shiyo.3578 said:

There won't be any strikes after these new 4, I guarantee it. The people who want 20 minute long square room bosses went to FFXIV years ago.

They already announced the battle for lion’s arch return from season 1 will have a strike mission and CM.

[Kozumi.5816]

On 5/9/2022 at 1:35 AM, Bakeneko.5826 said:

1-3 mechanics that need to be avoided

Of which 2-3 can be stability/aegis face tanked through. Yay, boons!

[Renegated.4132]

On 5/21/2022 at 11:16 AM, Dean.3056 said:

no, there is no single strike that is better than a raid.
They have maybe more people because most people are filthy casual who cannot bear the challenge of raids.

 

For now the only strike that i've seen that, all by itself can equal a raid battle it's the Harvest Temple, the other strikes or are either extremely easy or to represent a real challenge you have to activate the CM because the normal battle doesn't give much fight.

[Linken.6345]

4 hours ago, Renegated.4132 said:

 

For now the only strike that i've seen that, all by itself can equal a raid battle it's the Harvest Temple, the other strikes or are either extremely easy or to represent a real challenge you have to activate the CM because the normal battle doesn't give much fight.

Yea you do know that the cms are what is supposed to be raid like right?

[Renegated.4132]

3 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Yea you do know that the cms are what is supposed to be raid like right?

 

The strikes itself are supposed to be by default an "easier" version of the raids, being as challenging but without asking the amount of training it needs a raid boss, and the first 3, unless you add the CM, are a pure tramit, as long as the healers know how to do their job, the rest is go full unga-bunga. Also, it depends on how you make the CM, Ankka for example, it does not get harder because of more mechs or something like that, it gets harder due to the boss bombarding you with constant AoE. I don't know, make her open rifts that you need to close so she doesn't summon minions, mech that's similar to VG greens but with minions instead of a nuke, you can put on the second fase 1/2 elites that have the slothasor shake with reduced damage/stacks... Play a bit with what the raids have in order to make it close to what the raiding experience is.

[Linken.6345]

13 minutes ago, Renegated.4132 said:

 

The strikes itself are supposed to be by default an "easier" version of the raids, being as challenging but without asking the amount of training it needs a raid boss, and the first 3, unless you add the CM, are a pure tramit, as long as the healers know how to do their job, the rest is go full unga-bunga. Also, it depends on how you make the CM, Ankka for example, it does not get harder because of more mechs or something like that, it gets harder due to the boss bombarding you with constant AoE. I don't know, make her open rifts that you need to close so she doesn't summon minions, mech that's similar to VG greens but with minions instead of a nuke, you can put on the second fase 1/2 elites that have the slothasor shake with reduced damage/stacks... Play a bit with what the raids have in order to make it close to what the raiding experience is.

Did you forget that they said strikes were steping stones to raids ofcourse the normal version should not be the same as raids hence they took away the timer.

Something afew people asked for when talking about training raids.

And it became as I and other say easy as F or in your own words unga-bunga

[Renegated.4132]

56 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Did you forget that they said strikes were steping stones to raids ofcourse the normal version should not be the same as raids hence they took away the timer.

Something afew people asked for when talking about training raids.

And it became as I and other say easy as F or in your own words unga-bunga

 

TBH if they wanted to do a steping stone for the raids, the only thing they had to do was that, remove the timer. You have the "Easy" version, that has no timer, allowing the players to learn at their own pace, and that gives another type of reward, i don't know, instead of  "Vale Guardian Piece" give "Vale Guardian Small Piece" (something simple, not gonna burn my head of with the names now) and reduced % of rewards, if you have a 30% chance of an ascended/mini on the current difficulty (the only one we have rn), on easy you maybe have 10-15%,  the "Normal" mode, that basically it's what we have now and then the "Hard" mode that would be the CM, either reducing the timer or modifying the current mechs (for example in VG, in CM the greens are not preventable (current strategy now, just endure them),  the "fountain" attack cannot be CCd and you start with a lighted arena part, making the last phase the same as phase 2, but with faster changes of the lighted parts.

 

And they actually still can do that, instead of saying "Dead content" they can ask the community if this kind of change would be well recieved or not in order to revive said content. 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Renegated.4132

[Kozumi.5816]

CM's basically don't have rewards still and we're at 3/4 CMs.

Can we get a new rewards team?

[BumboJumbo.1308]

On 5/21/2022 at 7:16 PM, Dean.3056 said:

no, there is no single strike that is better than a raid.
They have maybe more people because most people are filthy casual who cannot bear the challenge of raids.

Goodluck getting new raids, and goodluck getting newer/unconfident people getting into harder content with that attitude.

[Obtena.7952]

On 3/14/2022 at 7:44 PM, Hume.2876 said:

 

Arenanet is building their game from the subset of ALL MMO players - not just ones who currently play.

Sure they are building the GAME for the MMO player market ... but specifically raids, THAT must target a large enough subset of players that were currently playing, because if it wasn't, it was NEVER going to be sustainable ... and that's what happened. 

Put another way maybe:

Anet introduced raids into GW2 which was an established game appealing to a specific subset of the MMO market. If your claim here is that Anet was building there game for ALL MMO players ... and clearly, raids weren't sustainable content, what does that actually tell you about the relationship between 1) raids as content and the players they were TRYING to attract to the game and 2) raids as content and the players that ALREADY played the game?

It tells me TWO things: 

1) there was NEVER going to be enough players already ingame to sustain raids as content over the long term

2) the strategy to 'build a game for the MMO player market' by diverting resources to make content that appealed to only a small segment of that market ... is a dumb idea and a kick in the teeth for the already established playerbase. 

As for strikes ... I have no doubt that Anet will MAKE them successful doing whatever they need to do for that to happen. 

Edited May 31, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Hume.2876]

 

15 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

 

1) there was NEVER going to be enough players already ingame to sustain raids as content over the long term

2) the strategy to 'build a game for the MMO player market' by diverting resources to make content that appealed to only a small segment of that market ... is a dumb idea and a kick in the teeth for the already established playerbase. 

As for strikes ... I have no doubt that Anet will MAKE them successful doing whatever they need to do for that to happen. 

 

Not dumb at all.  You expand your options to please a larger percentage of the MMO audience.

 

Let me use another real world example  - food. 

 

In steak houses they will often offer a vegan or gluten free option for people. This is because there is small subset of the population that will not go to that place with their family if it does not offer these options.

 

It's the same deal with raiding, instances, pvp and dungeons. There is segment of the MMO playing population that simply will not play the game if they don't have these options. By providing them they expand the number of possible players and broaden the appeal.

 

With your way of thinking a steak house could serve nothing but steaks.  No sides - not fish - no desserts etc. This is because almost all the people going to a steak house eat steaks. But if they don't at least have options - people will just skip that eating place altogether. 

 

There is no magic number needed to "sustain" any content.  If only 10% of your players raid - that doesn't mean that raids are a failure. Just like if only 5% of your patrons order the fish at a steakhouse - that doesn't mean you should stop serving fish. 

 

The question for the steak house is how much better would the steaks be if they stopped serving fish? And how many families would skip the place if they only served steak? For them having salads, desserts, gluten free options and even vegan items is the correct.   Likewise adding  raids, dungeons, strikes etc  was the correct call - you want your game to hit all market segments - check all the boxes so to speak..

Is Arenanet really going to lose players if they have only 50 open world zones to grind in - instead 60? Now imagine instead of those extra collection grind zones you have raids and strikes.  Maybe you acquire players who would have moved onto other game which offer these menu choices.

 

Additionally - with harder content you attract the influencers. Influencers are tremendously useful in promoting your game but without challenging content you lose these people.  So raiding was a good idea - so are strike missions.  FWIW there is not much different between the two in my mind. They are just more challenging content that extend the play time via difficulty rather then grind. 

The vision of GW2 was to provide full fledged full featured full MMO  - instanced PvE content (raids, strikes, dungeons),  PvP content (WvW and PvP) and open world PVE are all part of that. 

Just because one part is more popular in this game doesn't mean GW2 should just focus on that. You want your game to be broadly appealing to the MMO players of the world. 

Edited May 31, 2022 by Hume.2876

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Hume.2876 said:

 

 

Not dumb at all.  You expand your options to please a larger percentage of the MMO audience.

It's completely dumb if it's done at the expense of the foundation of the games revenue and has a low chance of being successful content to internal ones if it fails to attract external customers. Business-wise, it was an unnecessarily risky move. I can't even imagine what that business case looked like, if they had one at all. 

Put it this way, whether the aim was for raids to appeal more to internal customers OR get a higher marketshare of external customers, raids failed at BOTH! so the debate is completely moot. 

To me, it's just more egregious if the goal was to take a chance to grab a bigger market share because it was funded on the revenues from existing ones, at the expense of content not aimed at those revenue-generators. 

Edited May 31, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Artemis.8034]

This game will flop on steam, you need variety in gameplay to make an mmo like this palatable to the wider audience.  Lots of people want to raid and try raids, but they are scared off, there is this idea that gets pushed around that raiding it toxic and not worth the time. Thats not true, there are toxic people in every part of this game you dont base how you want to play on some guy thats being a jerk. If that was the case I would have quit gaming 20 years ago. Another poster has it right in order to have a healthy game you need variety,  and raiding/ pvp /wvw/ open world / instanced content all add that. To burn a part of the game because people have come to believe the stereotype is foolish , esp at a time when you are going to a big game platform like steam.  Whats boring is doing the same thing day in and day out repetitively, break it up like i do raid a little do some wvw, some metas, hit up the strikes, get out and finish off some achievements, you may enjoy it all.  

[MorpheusDV.8592]

There's quite a few guilds out there that provide end-game and raid training. Hell, I'm even in a guild (While myself being raid retired) that will train people in raids for those who are willing in a relaxed raid setting.  We try to actively help those who want to raid and are willing to get better. Some of us in the guild actually got our first Wing 1 clear and want to actually pursue more.

We WANT those people, but said people are too afraid to join and/or ask. To be honest, there are some kitten groups that will kick on the spot, but as long as you're open and honest saying you're new and don't join a try-hard group, 99% of groups will accept you to at least give you a chance.

What we don't want is for you join a group, saying you're experienced and lie, then intentionally or indirectly or kitten up mechanics. I get it, everyone has a bad day, and I have been there, but don't lie about your experience. Close to 100% groups are cool if you just express yourself experience-wise. We'd prefer you to ask questions. If they kick you, then kitten that group. If they don't, consider it either a learning experience and/or a willingness to hopefully become better.

Edited June 2, 2022 by MorpheusDV.8592

[Kozumi.5816]

2 hours ago, MorpheusDV.8592 said:

raid training

Raid training is just stroking someone's ego. It's basically a pyramid scheme scam.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[MorpheusDV.8592]

6 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Raid training is just stroking someone's ego. It's basically a pyramid scheme scam.

Uh... no? Do you even know what a pyramid scheme is?

[Obtena.7952]

8 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Raid training is just stroking someone's ego. It's basically a pyramid scheme scam.

That's an absurd statement. The efforts that these trainers and their guilds are going through to accommodate building a community of more accepting raiders ingame is amazing and they certainly not doing it for any sort of reward or recognition. Like, why even say that? Is your axe to grind that big or something? It's shameful to even think such a thing. 

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Bakeneko.5826]

1 hour ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's an absurd statement. The efforts that these trainers and their guilds are going through to accommodate building a community of more accepting raiders ingame is amazing and they certainly not doing it for any sort of reward or recognition. Like, why even say that? Is your axe to grind that big or something? It's shameful to even think such a thing. 

 

Sadly that community is rapidly going extinct due to same players being too important to teach a few years ago. Not even sad raids are becoming dead content, much like dungeons.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

11 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Raid training is just stroking someone's ego. 

It's wild seeing someone complaining about players not helping others and someone complaining about players helping others on the same day. 

11 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

It's basically a pyramid scheme scam.

To clear things up:
Pyramid scheme: a form of investment in which each paying participant recruits two further participants, with returns being given to early participants using money contributed by later ones.
People who are taught how to Raid don't provide any form of compensation, if during a Raid a person must provide compensation it's Raid Selling, not Training.

Scam(/fraud): wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
During a Raid training noone is deceiving anyone for their own gain.

[Kozumi.5816]

Nah. I've been in the discords and they rank everyone based on their "worth" as a raider. It's inhuman.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

7 hours ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

Nah. I've been in the discords and they rank everyone based on their "worth" as a raider. It's inhuman.

Yeah, unbeliveable Hardstuck dares me to rank as... EU. Truly horrific, shameful.

You might wanna leave Crossroads Inn btw.

[Bakeneko.5826]

3 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Yeah, unbeliveable Hardstuck dares me to rank as... EU. Truly horrific, shameful.

You might wanna leave Crossroads Inn btw.

You mean leave guild, who organises training, for guild who is known for toxic players, toxic behaviour and, worst of all, has teapot in it?

 

And community learnt nothing from why raids are dead: https://imgur.com/MvaPjcZhttps://imgur.com/MvaPjcZhttps://imgur.com/MvaPjcZhttps://imgur.com/MvaPjcZ

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 minute ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

You mean leave guild, who organises training, for guild who is known for toxic players, toxic behaviour and, worst of all, has teapot in it?

Noone forces you to be in any guild, you don't like it, leave. Moaning that Hs is toxic while they've been doing DE runs left and right, doing trainings left and right is rich. 

3 minutes ago, Bakeneko.5826 said:

And community learnt nothing from why raids are dead: https://imgur.com/MvaPjcZhttps://imgur.com/MvaPjcZhttps://imgur.com/MvaPjcZhttps://imgur.com/MvaPjcZ

Ah yes, "KP bad". Don't tell me how to play, but I will tell you to not ask for KP for your groups.

[Bakeneko.5826]

1 minute ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Noone forces you to be in any guild, you don't like it, leave. Moaning that Hs is toxic while they've been doing DE runs left and right, doing trainings left and right is rich. 

Ah yes, "KP bad". Don't tell me how to play, but I will tell you to not ask for KP for your groups.

No, i am talking about second part of LFG.