Most players don't know how much dps they do

[ArchonWing.9480]

8 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

That's kind of contradictory. You say he's better off choosing the one he dies with but then turn around to say that sacrificing damage for survivability is the reasonable approach so which one is it?

 

Yea, it's a typo xD Although most of the post was suggesting that dps wasn't that important and Tachenon would be fine with just picking a desired playstyle and refining it rather than playing something they would find uncomfortable with since they seem to be doing fine.

It's generally not a good idea to die as a number of bosses have phases so dps is not equal at all times during the fight. This is doubly true if said fight contains mechanics that have to be dealt with later. Teq and Modremoth are pretty good examples of fights where one can't just drop all the dps at the start of the fight and peace out.

And regardless I think it's somewhat absurd to make oneself much squishier for like 5% more dps. Obviously if people are that seasoned then sure, but mistakes happen, and sometimes lag happens even if you play perfectly.

 

Funny enough Arcdps is actually capable of measuring mechanics done and separating damage per phase (though only for raids and cm fractals) as well as stuff like boons, cleanses, and res's, but a lot of the more toxic folks that misuse the tool don't realize that, while these things are just as important.

Also yea, most shouldn't just go to snowcrows and grab a dps build from there because many are reliant on buffs from others. It's somewhat inevitable that the vast majority of players everywhere are going to prefer people that bring utility alongside dps (like Scourges)

Edited March 13, 2022 by ArchonWing.9480

[deffy.1320]

On 3/6/2022 at 11:32 PM, Telgum.6071 said:

People don't understand these kinds of complains and then will talk about elitism and stuff like that.

I've participated in five full Dragon's End meta. Lost the first three with casual groups, the last two I had to join two raid squads that would ask for LI, hide tag in Dragon's End and wait for everyone to join in while the 'casuals' would slowly leave the map..

 

That's nice is it not u wait for the "casuals" to leave the map, now this is the unfriendly elitist community attitude that's why this meta needs to be seriously changed to include those casual players, ur excluding them by hiding commander tags, that's wat we want in the community ppl that think we don't want those players they're not good enough who cares they may of been playing since 2006, those "casuals" as u so insulting put it are the majority of this games long term player base, those "casuals" are anet's bread n butter, ye they pay for that majority of the game so u can enjoy ur elite content and ur hidden squad so u can now exclude them from the game they've loved and played for decades, Anet "BIG MISTAKE. BIG. HUGE"  Pretty Woman - Big Mistake. Big. Huge - YouTube

 

As for the OP u know wat u can do wit ur dps meter, say no more.... 😛😉 

[Telgum.6071]

13 minutes ago, deffy.1320 said:

That's nice is it not u wait for the "casuals" to leave the map, now this is the unfriendly elitist community attitude that's why this meta needs to be seriously changed to include those casual players, ur excluding them by hiding commander tags, that's wat we want in the community ppl that think we don't want those players they're not good enough who cares they may of been playing since 2006, those "casuals" as u so insulting put it are the majority of this games long term player base, those "casuals" are anet's bread n butter, ye they pay for that majority of the game so u can enjoy ur elite content and ur hidden squad so u can now exclude them from the game they've loved and played for decades, Anet "BIG MISTAKE. BIG. HUGE"  Pretty Woman - Big Mistake. Big. Huge - YouTube

 

As for the OP u know wat u can do wit ur dps meter, say no more.... 😛😉 

Elitist would be telling you to leave the map, instead we keep a low profile because we want people with high dps/support, what's the problem with that?

You remind me of those players who complain about hidden tags in WvW because they are completly unable to play without a commander giving the orders, they don't have not the skill, but the initiative to start taking a tower for themselves, or a camp, or anything, same as you don't have the initiative to spend FIVE minutes of your life into learning how to be more useful in the same game you spend HOURS, probably COLLECTIVE MONTHS of your life. You could do that by asking for help ingame or watching a video, but I guess coming to the forums and vomit your opinion and your videos is easier. If you lack initiative you'll suffer regardless of the meta or even the scenario, and complaning to Arenanet won't solve it nor it's the direction. You already have hours of casual content for those players, what's the problem with adding stuff for the "elitists"? Should Anet nerf the EoD strikes and raids because you refuse to improve?

"Casuals" will learn, eventually. This meta has been nerfed twice already.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Telgum.6071
Typo

[Sobx.1758]

38 minutes ago, deffy.1320 said:

That's nice is it not u wait for the "casuals" to leave the map, now this is the unfriendly elitist community attitude that's why this meta needs to be seriously changed to include those casual players, ur excluding them by hiding commander tags, that's wat we want in the community ppl that think we don't want those players they're not good enough who cares they may of been playing since 2006, those "casuals" as u so insulting put it are the majority of this games long term player base, those "casuals" are anet's bread n butter, ye they pay for that majority of the game so u can enjoy ur elite content and ur hidden squad so u can now exclude them from the game they've loved and played for decades, Anet "BIG MISTAKE. BIG. HUGE"  Pretty Woman - Big Mistake. Big. Huge - YouTube

 

As for the OP u know wat u can do wit ur dps meter, say no more.... 😛😉 

I've failed the meta with lfg squad one day, then joined another lfg squad 2 days later and succeeded. So much for "not being included" or "elitists" somehow monopolizing the completion of the meta. That said, the biggest problem I see with that meta is the 2h prep+event timer, seems a bit long even with players accepting they don't need to instantly succeed on their first tries.

Edited March 13, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[NumNums.7935]

On 3/6/2022 at 4:19 PM, Custodio.6134 said:

tbh: that feature is already half implemented. 
ever heard of special forces training area? the golem in there literally outputs your dps into your chat, and you can just open a private raid squad to go in and test your rotation. even with the option to enable support buffs etc to simulate a raid setup. 

yes, you cannot track your damage outside of there without third-party addons, BUT it´s not like you have ZERO options to check if you deal damage

I like this and putting a portal to this in Eye of the North and Arborstone would be great. Maybe even better if there was an npc that had a small AP collection for users to go in and test it out

[Labjax.2465]

16 hours ago, Telgum.6071 said:

Elitist would be telling you to leave the map, instead we keep a low profile because we want people with high dps/support, what's the problem with that?

You remind me of those players who complain about hidden tags in WvW because they are completly unable to play without a commander giving the orders, they don't have not the skill, but the initiative to start taking a tower for themselves, or a camp, or anything, same as you don't have the initiative to spend FIVE minutes of your life into learning how to be more useful in the same game you spend HOURS, probably COLLECTIVE MONTHS of your life. You could do that by asking for help ingame or watching a video, but I guess coming to the forums and vomit your opinion and your videos is easier. If you lack initiative you'll suffer regardless of the meta or even the scenario, and complaning to Arenanet won't solve it nor it's the direction. You already have hours of casual content for those players, what's the problem with adding stuff for the "elitists"? Should Anet nerf the EoD strikes and raids because you refuse to improve?

"Casuals" will learn, eventually. This meta has been nerfed twice already.

I'm not the other poster, but I just wanted to say: I don't complain about hidden tags, but I don't do WvW much without one around. It has nothing to do with initiative as your sad perspective tries to paint with such a condescending brush. I simply don't want to spend my time deciding where to go and what to assault and get steamrolled by a zerg.

Elitist players would I suspect be a lot less angry and a lot less condescending if they took the time to ask other players why they play the ways that they do and heard them out on it, instead of projecting this bizarre image of them being useless layabouts.

And just to do a little reality check, people who think of themselves as elite players are often just a number (e.g. they are replaceable). The people who do the most time-consuming and hard to replace stuff like buildcrafting and organizing guilds and squads and so on are a fraction of elite players, with elite players already being a fraction of the playerbase. But despite this, it's not uncommon in MMOs to find people who do little other than a DPS rotation skillfully be some of the most egotistical players of all, some of the most obsessed with leaning on it to look down on others.

[Telgum.6071]

35 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

I simply don't want to spend my time deciding where to go and what to assault and get steamrolled by a zerg

Which doesn't happen unless you go to the very garrison or a keep. The time spent into deciding where to go in WvW revolves around ten seconds, which is the time needed to open the map, check the structures, their tiers and their debuffs.

35 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Elitist players would I suspect be a lot less angry and a lot less condescending if they took the time to ask other players why they play the ways that they do and heard them out on it, instead of projecting this bizarre image of them being useless layabouts.

I've been in multiple servers and interacted with multiple players so let me tell you: is far from being a projection. Don't lecture me about my main game mode when you "don't do much wvw".

My answer was for a player who is calling me an elitist and lecturing me for having an opinion against those players who make the content unnecessary more difficult, the same players who flood this subforum because the DE meta is too hard when the only things needed are dps, CC and the dodge key. Of course I will look him down.

[Labjax.2465]

13 minutes ago, Telgum.6071 said:

Which doesn't happen unless you go to the very garrison or a keep. The time spent into deciding where to go in WvW revolves around ten seconds, which is the time needed to open the map, check the structures, their tiers and their debuffs.

I've been in multiple servers and interacted with multiple players so let me tell you: is far from being a projection. Don't lecture me about my main game mode when you "don't do much wvw".

My answer was for a player who is calling me an elitist and lecturing me for having an opinion against those players who make the content unnecessary more difficult, the same players who flood this subforum because the DE meta is too hard when the only things needed are dps, CC and the dodge key. Of course I will look him down.

I explained to you something about how I play and all you heard was a "lecture about your main game mode." You don't need to prove anything. I really don't care what your main game mode is or how good you are at it. It means nothing to me. If you want to take pride in being skilled in something, good for you, but stop looking down on other people because they don't meet your expectations. Stop blaming them for what you perceive to be inadequate contributions when it's Anet who puts you and them in the same place and asks you to work together.

[Telgum.6071]

25 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

I explained to you something about how I play and all you heard was a "lecture about your main game mode." You don't need to prove anything. I really don't care what your main game mode is or how good you are at it. It means nothing to me. If you want to take pride in being skilled in something, good for you, but stop looking down on other people because they don't meet your expectations. Stop blaming them for what you perceive to be inadequate contributions when it's Anet who puts you and them in the same place and asks you to work together.

It doesn't make much sense to pretend to look so careless after saying stuff like "your sad perspective", "angry, condescending", "projecting this bizarre image", but hey, you can have the high moral ground if you want it 😉

Just one note, here I don't blame anyone, as much I tell people if I think they are wrong when they say things like "DE OP, please nerf". That's blaming? Woah, I guess we can't say anything anymore.

[Valfar.3761]

I shamelessly admit that I am what the OP despises. A filthy casual.

 

I'm not a teenager with unlimited free time to spend hours reading the latest Icyveins guide on how to play my spec for the latest WoW patch anymore. I have limited free time, and I just want to sit down and play a game. I don't play Samurai in FFXIV because I'm good at it. I play it because it's cool. Likewise in GW2 I just use what feels good and get on with playing the actual game. If I was forced to get my crap together then I'd sooner quit and play something else TBH.

[gem.9038]

DPS unfortunately isn't a good metric. It's only part of the bigger picture. An enemy with a huge amount of toughness will naturally lower your strike damage and make it appear as if you're not up to par. Likewise an enemy with no toughness and your dps will skyrocket. This is just one example. Lastly, you can't control how people will play the game, nor should you try. You just gotta accept it for what it is. 

[Tukaram.8256]

On 3/8/2022 at 4:09 AM, sorudo.9054 said:

i don't care how much DPS i do and in open PvE i never should, that's exactly how it was since launch and how it should be now.

I never knew and never cared. I barely look at my hero panel, and if it is not there - I will never know. 

On 3/10/2022 at 11:59 AM, Cynder.2509 said:

Yeah. That's why everyone should ahve ArcDPS installed instead. 

 

If ANet does not provide it in my hero panel, then they obviously think I do not need it. 

On 3/9/2022 at 6:53 PM, Rasimir.6239 said:

Doing the breakbar tutorial at the training ground is a mandatory part of the (early) EoD story.

I never heard of a breakbar until the EoD tutorial. I did beat the guy, but just with my regular attacks. Not sure if anything counted as a combo or whatever.  When we had to do the same to break the hologram wall, I had the NPC do it. 

5 hours ago, Valfar.3761 said:

I shamelessly admit that I am what the OP despises. A filthy casual.

 

I'm not a teenager with unlimited free time to spend hours reading the latest Icyveins guide on how to play my spec for the latest WoW patch anymore. I have limited free time, and I just want to sit down and play a game. I don't play Samurai in FFXIV because I'm good at it. I play it because it's cool. Likewise in GW2 I just use what feels good and get on with playing the actual game. If I was forced to get my crap together then I'd sooner quit and play something else TBH.

Yep! Me too.  I have been playing video games since Pong (1976), been playing MMORPGs since UO (1997), and GW since 2006.  I just play for fun.  My son knows numbers/combos/etc.  I have no patience to learn all that.  I have also played D&D since 1980 but never heard of CC until last week.  

But in stuff like the Queen's Pavilion Boss Blitz (the best event in the game) I get invited into squads all the time. I can hold my own in a fight, and I run around and rez people while my minions fight.  I have no interest in top tier end game play, and if I have to do a strike for a particular thing - I do it as quick as I can and never go back ha ha  😎

[Zera.9435]

I can tell you right now without any add-ons how much damage players do: NOT ENOUGH.  There will NEVER be enough DPS. There is no such thing as enough DPS. More damage is the answer to EVERYTHING.

[sergiomasako.2906]

A couple of golems at the start of the map so players know what dps they do. You can't ask a random player to do 5k dps if he doesn't know how much he does.

ANET HAS TO IMPROVE THE INFORMATION GIVEN TO THE PLAYER.

The only thing he seems to know how to do is nerf the event but not give the player tools to try to improve.

Edited April 2, 2022 by sergiomasako.2906

[Kanek.5472]

 /sigh

 

DPS shouldn't be something in my purview in a game that doesn't actively encourage it. Even if it did anet would have to buff a lot of specs accordingly or do drastic reworks to specs that point the player to the direction of "here's how to get the big deeps." So far there hasn't been too much of a hint as to that where they're going with it.

 

Anet building in a DPS meter would be more detrimental than beneficial to the game since it'll make players feel devalued and probably irritated when their favorite way to play just doesn't do crap overall. There would be more and more complaints about damage on this forum than there is now.. Even then I jumped into the training area to learn my spellbreaker build does 7k dps on the chance that I actually hit the buttons in the order I want. It's disheartening to be asked to do more than that, it's even more of a headache that the only good spec for Warrior at the moment is Berserker and its rotation is mind-numbingly boring.

[Orthonen.9470]

This post was made with the thought that people on General Discussion care, when the majority probably don't or will understand. In spite of all this, I would like to point out that the flaw in all this is that often times it's not that everyone needs to be DPS.

A lot of the times it's that there's not enough support or boons being thrown out, you see this a lot in T3 fractals and it's why most groups struggle past that point, or moreso you can feel the difficulty intensify due to the lack of boons and healing/condi cleanse.

I think it's good that a meta is finally hard to do, I think that for a long time I evaded PvE because it was just too easy, and too easy over time becomes too boring. Sure the reward is there, but because there's no challenge there, it tells me I'm wasting my time swinging at dust.

I think that's why the majority of the player base considers the game boring at a point, because the inclusion of 80 people against one boss cleaning it out in 15 sec for little reward is just not good.

However there's a lot to rewarding, I wont get into it now, but it's the players job to learn to be efficient with their currencies.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Aridon.8362

[Ledi.9742]

i do not understand why i would need to know my dps or what i would do with that information. only things that i care about in the combat are 1. can i do the stuff i wanna do without dying a bunch 2. am i having fun

 

while i think that the dps can be useful for some players, most (including me) do not care. i could see how at worst it could lead to bullying and harassing others out of the more difficult pve content.

 

and now that i think of it, seeing my dps would probably just make me feel bad about joining the meta stuff, because chances that its below what its "supposed" to be. and the thing is that there genuinely is not much i could do about it besides just feeling bad about it. i have a disability that affects significantly the dexterity of my fingers, and the speed i can use my attacks, and my precision with buttons.

[Kuya.6495]

4 hours ago, Mutisija.5017 said:

and now that i think of it, seeing my dps would probably just make me feel bad about joining the meta stuff, because chances that its below what its "supposed" to be. and the thing is that there genuinely is not much i could do about it besides just feeling bad about it. i have a disability that affects significantly the dexterity of my fingers, and the speed i can use my attacks, and my precision with buttons.

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Kuya.6495

[difens.1326]

Yeah great video yadayada, now show me similar thing on a warrior. Not going to happen.

[SunTzu.4513]

To be honest this discussion is as old as the game (And other MMO's i played) itself. Imo the truth is: GW2 is a mostly player skill based game. You can not outgear bad skill usage or not/missing dodges/blocks/evadeskills. Also most people i know play games to have fun and don't want to learn to optimize their gear/skill knowledge of game mechaniks. Don't get me wrong i have experienced both ends of the skill spectrum. I had my fair share of time as an min/max pushing/speed clear gamer. These days i play just OW content and casualy carry friends on heal scourge or other sligthly broken support specs trough fractals or strikes. And yes i admit sometimes i get a short internal ''nerd rage'' when i see what happened and how people participate on bosses and stuff like this. Or if an Forum outrage starts on difficulty of story bosses. Looking at you Eater of Souls. Earlier on in my gaming career i would defenetly point some fingers about these things but in these days i don't care anymore. Who am i to call out people for their way to play? For years i was advocating for build in DPS meters and visible gear templates. Some day i realised that this would not change anything. People who don't care about rotation, gear and stuff like this would carry on in their ways. People who are min/max full buff meta enjoyers would play their way. Implementing those things imo would just lead to more infigthing in the comunity and the ''casuals'' and ''elitists'' would only throw more mud at each other. In my humble opinion GW2 need more difficulty levels. So that everyone can enjoy his playstile. This includes an Ultra Hardcore Mode with unique mechaniks to Bosses/scenarios and also an movie like just walk trough everything super easy mode. So everyone could enjoy the game on his own pace. I would even give exclusive titels and rewards to every gamemode even the easiest so everyone would get something for his spend time.

Edited April 9, 2022 by SunTzu.4513

[Cyninja.2954]

2 hours ago, difens.1326 said:

Yeah great video yadayada, now show me similar thing on a warrior. Not going to happen.

 

Sure, here:

 

Now now, you do have to press more than auto attack, that occasional F1 skill is pretty much in the same level as having to reactivate your facets in glint though. Immediate 25k. 

 

That's without even getting into all the easy mode warrior builds on youtube, the very easy rotation which even when performed badly will yield close to 30k and the fact that warrior can reach godly sustain when running heal signet and healing via dragon slash as Bladesworn while reaching 35k life in marauder gear and decent jade bot core. Want a selfsufficient open world build, here is lord hizen's latest for warrior (and yesy I ran something similar to his build while running through EoD on my main warrior): 

 

 

All that whinning you read on ther spvp and wvw forums doesn't apply to PvE. Here it all comes down to understanding your class and building properly as warrior.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Ledi.9742]

6 hours ago, Kuya.6495 said:

 

i have considered builds like this, but it would not be fun for me at all. i do not want to take away all that is fun for me in the combat just to be more useful for others. i play this game for fun, and i do not want all the combat to be boring chore for me where i just sit there staring at my character doing all the combat on his own.

[Sobx.1758]

20 minutes ago, Mutisija.5017 said:

i have considered builds like this, but it would not be fun for me at all. i do not want to take away all that is fun for me in the combat just to be more useful for others. i play this game for fun, and i do not want all the combat to be boring chore for me where i just sit there staring at my character doing all the combat on his own.

But that response was clearly about your claim saying you wouldn't be able to. The point is: you would be and it's not just about this build where you "sit back and do nothing", there's a whole lot of builds in this game with varying difficulty levels. You're free to play how you want, but "I wouldn't be able to" seems to be wrong, to the point where you would be able to and it would even be too boring for you 😉 If you think to have "enough" dps, you'd need some sick, perfect rotations as if you're playing the piano, then that's more of a misconception. I think that was the point of linking this video as an example.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Vilin.8056]

del

Edited April 9, 2022 by Vilin.8056

[Gibson.4036]

On 3/9/2022 at 6:03 AM, Mell.4873 said:

You know what it isnt only the dps that is the problem is the trinity that isn't well defined and not being explicit enough for players. 

I mean I see people leveling ranger to play druid only to realise it is not the most ideal endgame healer(maybe after spirit rework). 

While classes like staff mirage don't get recognised as a support since it also has alot of dps. While being on of the best open world supports since it has the highest aegis output, a aoe instant resurrection and instant heals with mantras.

What skill is the rez?

Edit: Nvm, found it. Illusion of life?

Edited April 9, 2022 by Gibson.4036