Bladesworn is painful (PvE)

[artharon.9276]

1 hour ago, DragonSlayer.1087 said:

Somebody in the Dev Team was like "Hey we can make the warrior like Rurouni Kenshin! 

Now we have a bunch of Battosai in downstate. 

 

I don't think they know any of those obscure stuff, I fear they just watched a tarantino movie, hence the superficial espec design. 

[Bunny.9834]

28 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

If the damage wasn't super nerfed preemptively in competitive play then it wouldn't be that bad.

I literally tried doing berserker BsW in PvP, I was able to land 3 consecutive DS on a ranger and they still had a tiny bit of HP left.... like what??? 

Granted I use Daring Dragon which only has 5 bullets... but come on. Landing 3 full loaded DS of these and enemy is still alive. 

CmC is overly careful of powercreep with these new e-spec, which is understandable but now we have wet noodle especs. 

And please, before anyone say it's only been a week... remember that we have 3 betas to test these specs. 
 

[Curennos.9307]

15 hours ago, DragonSlayer.1087 said:

I literally tried doing berserker BsW in PvP, I was able to land 3 consecutive DS on a ranger and they still had a tiny bit of HP left.... like what??? 

Granted I use Daring Dragon which only has 5 bullets... but come on. Landing 3 full loaded DS of these and enemy is still alive. 

CmC is overly careful of powercreep with these new e-spec, which is understandable but now we have wet noodle especs. 

And please, before anyone say it's only been a week... remember that we have 3 betas to test these specs. 
 

I think this would be fixed with a few buffs and changes to gunsaber skills - they're currently rather noodly, clunky (Blooming Fire...) or just plain worthless (imo, Break Step). You can get some very nice damage going with Tactics traits, Unyielding Dragon, intel sigils and For Great Justice! Cyclone Trigger also does very respectable damage - it's just a kitten to actually land because Break Step is bad. If you can land it though, Artillery Slash (however many times you want to cast it in a row) flows very smoothly into Cyclone Trigger too, although I'm kinda sideyeing the Artillery Slash projectile sometimes with how easily it seems to miss.

 

But it shouldn't take For Great Justice to get a skill's damage to more reasonable levels, and it currently does. You may also want to try Unyielding Dragon - it really beefs stuff up.

[Obtena.7952]

Complaint sounds more like L2P issue. We have ALL the options necessary to land Triggers and even not die in PVE, full zerker setup even. Probably the easiest warrior spec I've played. Only issue I have so far is the very limited access to ranged skills. 

[Bunny.9834]

2 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Complaint sounds more like L2P issue. We have ALL the options necessary to land Triggers and even not die in PVE, full zerker setup even. Probably the easiest warrior spec I've played. Only issue I have so far is the very limited access to ranged skills. 

I really was hoping they update the cast times for some of the Rifle skills. Some of it was reworked but it still feels stuck in 2012. Riffle 2 especially. Needs to shoot faster but increase the CD in between use a tad bit to compensate.  

 

[Cuks.8241]

The Dragon Trigger I get. Its a flavour thing and it feels good when you land it. You can get the flow going quite fast so you can use it often. Increase the range of Flicker step to 600 and make DT 2 and 3 ground target skillshots.

The pistol is not that bad. There are some nice synergies with old and new traits.

But the Gunsaber. That one I dont get. So you take away one weapon option (and weapons variety was kinda warrior thing) and give us this spamy and unsatisfying mix of gs/rifle. And it doesnt even look, sound and feel good.

This is purely from fun and feeling point of view. Don't know how it will turn out in high end content but yeah the 2.5 self root to be effective doesn't bode well.

[Puck.3697]

9 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

The Dragon Trigger I get. Its a flavour thing and it feels good when you land it. You can get the flow going quite fast so you can use it often. Increase the range of Flicker step to 600 and make DT 2 and 3 ground target skillshots.

The pistol is not that bad. There are some nice synergies with old and new traits.

But the Gunsaber. That one I dont get. So you take away one weapon option (and weapons variety was kinda warrior thing) and give us this spamy and unsatisfying mix of gs/rifle. And it doesnt even look, sound and feel good.

This is purely from fun and feeling point of view. Don't know how it will turn out in high end content but yeah the 2.5 self root to be effective doesn't bode well.

Gunsaber could be good. 

Imho give us back weapon swap. Increase the CDs of Gunsabers attacks and amp the damage upwards. 

So we would use standard weapons for our sustained rotation and the gunblade would come out for the burst combo. 

While at it allow us to F2 without it putting us in gunsaber set. 

Gunsaber just feels like a normal weapon due to how it works 

Even in benchmarks. They only use dragonstrigger and then 1 gunsaber attack before weapon swapping back to axe. 

 

 

 

[Mungrul.9358]

11 hours ago, Cuks.8241 said:

The pistol is not that bad. There are some nice synergies with old and new traits.

Yeah, I've actually been enjoying pistol too, but would have preferred the skill order was reversed, as too often I've used Gunstinger before Dragon's Roar 😞

[ugrakarma.9416]

On 3/8/2022 at 7:52 AM, voodoo.7412 said:

Finished story on power spellbreaker and half way with condi cele tempst didnt like both new specs yet but condi cele willbender work like a charm.

 

Feels that bladesworn is not working as anet intent hope fixes will come.

i was former warrior because of this., 0 issues with willbender.

[Sentinel VX.1392]

I have no issue with dragon trigger, but gunsaber damage feels too kitten low for PVE.

[Bunny.9834]

1 hour ago, Sentinel VX.1392 said:

I have no issue with dragon trigger, but gunsaber damage feels too kitten low for PVE.

agree, suffers same issue as rifle skills because of the ammo mechanic. 

You have to spam them to produce  slightly higher damage output than other weapons. The problem is, they're SLOW. 

[Sentinel VX.1392]

44 minutes ago, DragonSlayer.1087 said:

agree, suffers same issue as rifle skills because of the ammo mechanic. 

You have to spam them to produce  slightly higher damage output than other weapons. The problem is, they're SLOW. 

Even the auto attack hit like kitten.

[ens.9854]

19 hours ago, Sentinel VX.1392 said:

I have no issue with dragon trigger, but gunsaber damage feels too kitten low for PVE.

Right. What anet needs to realize is that benchmarks actually revolve around using *as few* gunsaber skills as possible. You always swap to axe/pistol ASAP, therefore buffing damage on gunsaber is not going to make the spec overperform unless gunsaber performs at least close to axe/pistol (a laughable situation). You don't even have to worry about creating new broken builds because strength/disc will always be optimal as you always want to DT as often as possible for the most damage as well.

[Sentinel VX.1392]

2 minutes ago, ens.9854 said:

Right. What anet needs to realize is that benchmarks actually revolve around using *as few* gunsaber skills as possible. You always swap to axe/pistol ASAP, therefore buffing damage on gunsaber is not going to make the spec overperform unless gunsaber performs at least close to axe/pistol (a laughable situation). You don't even have to worry about creating new broken builds because strength/disc will always be optimal as you always want to DT as often as possible for the most damage as well.

There is an experimental build for bladesworn on discretize and the rotation literally doesn't even use any of the gunsaber skill.

 

So what's the point locking the gunsaber into one of the weapon slot when it hits like wet noodles in PVE.

[VPK.1796]

 

 

👁️

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, VPK.1796 said:

 

 

👁️

Now show competitive gameplay.

[Puck.3697]

12 hours ago, Sentinel VX.1392 said:

There is an experimental build for bladesworn on discretize and the rotation literally doesn't even use any of the gunsaber skill.

 

So what's the point locking the gunsaber into one of the weapon slot when it hits like wet noodles in PVE.

yeah imho this is a huge issue currently.

gun saber replacing a Weapon Swap is Fine. but it isnt fine if its Litterally Worse then other optinos that could be taken.

Gunsaber needs to hit harder. its Animation Times need to be Reduced to Compensate the lack of Weapon Swap and Stow, while its failing to do this.. its always going to be Questionable.

[Ausar.9542]

On 3/6/2022 at 7:12 PM, Zizekent.2398 said:

who even had the idea to put a self-root cast on a melee class to land their damage?

Warrior Greatsword

[Mungrul.9358]

I spent most of the weekend playing BS almost exclusively, and I have warmed to it.

There's a few of things that have contributed to this warming:

 

1: It would seem that Bladesworn pistol attacks don't qualify as projectiles, and therefore don't get reflected (at least, they didn't get reflected by Chak shields last night).

 

2: Unseen Sword activates in unforeseen scenarios, and is a welcome extra attack. Swapping to Gunsaber or back we could all guess it would work, but did you know it also triggers on dismount and on being downed if you're in Gunsaber mode?

 

3: The stun from Unyielding Dragon, as well as being a MASSIVE 5 seconds, is also quite possibly the biggest single hit breakbar damage in the entire game.

 

Of course, now I've highlighted things I enjoy, I fully expect ANet to nerf them, especially as the first two points feel like they might not have been intended.

 

I do feel Tactical Reload needs something more to give it a little extra *oomph*. I like that it's relatively low cooldown, but just increasing ammo by 1 across the board seems a little stingey. Maybe some extra stacks of stability?

I mean, at the very least, it should also increase flow.

[Arewn.2368]

On 3/9/2022 at 12:04 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

Complaint sounds more like L2P issue. We have ALL the options necessary to land Triggers and even not die in PVE, full zerker setup even. Probably the easiest warrior spec I've played. Only issue I have so far is the very limited access to ranged skills. 

Not sure about it being "the easiest", but l2p is definitely part of it.

I was eating floor the first few hours, but you eventually start to get the timing down.

We just need some CD and damage buffs.

 

Also the 100 flow pool and slower build up actually feels more in line with how I originally envisioned warrior bursts, and I like it. Outside of bosses though, the super rapid OOC flow decay is problematic. It's hard to start DT when your flow is drained between each mob.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 hour ago, Arewn.2368 said:

Not sure about it being "the easiest", but l2p is definitely part of it.

I was eating floor the first few hours, but you eventually start to get the timing down.

We just need some CD and damage buffs.

 

Also the 100 flow pool and slower build up actually feels more in line with how I originally envisioned warrior bursts, and I like it. Outside of bosses though, the super rapid OOC flow decay is problematic. It's hard to start DT when your flow is drained between each mob.

You kind of have to use flow stabilizer and double tap it.

[Arewn.2368]

1 hour ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You kind of have to use flow stabilizer and double tap it.

Yea initial build up of flow is really slow and you basically need flow stabilizer for it. Which i do agree is a problem. After that first DT though, I find it stops being a problem and typically have enough flow to DT on cooldown. It helps that flow can continue to generate while charging DT.

[ens.9854]

I think some people are misunderstanding a bit. I don't think bladesworn is "ineffective". It can produce fine numbers. But it *feels* terrible because gunsaber is terrible - and for no reason. You can buff gunsaber to the heavens and it won't budge the bladesworn benchmark. The only thing have a terrible gunsaber does is artificially inflate the skill floor to be effective (punishing newer players) and make the spec a 1-dimensional bore in the open world.

 

This is in stark contrast to a lot of the other specs in EoD that have trended to making the game EASIER to play effectively in a group setting. Firebenders/Mechanist spamming every skill on cooldown, harbingers 111112111112 and specter 333 +shroud will all outstrip a bladesworn that wants to fire off any gunsaber skills besides dragon trigger.

[Obtena.7952]

Actually, one of the best features of BsW is that there are choices to enhance Flow to free you up from looking in the core spec for similar effects ... I sure wish Berserker had something similar. Smart design IMO. I really wouldn't describe moving bosses as making BSW painful. There is definitely something to be said for using the right tools for the job. 

And yes, I use Flow Stabilizer in my build because I can get away from Axe Mastery. Painful is certainly not soloing or having sustain.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKhAcqlZwUZYsJmLOWTtxSA-zRIYR08fGRIBqQBo4Zh0zI-e

 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Obtena.7952]

23 minutes ago, ens.9854 said:

I think some people are misunderstanding a bit. I don't think bladesworn is "ineffective". It can produce fine numbers. But it *feels* terrible because gunsaber is terrible - and for no reason. You can buff gunsaber to the heavens and it won't budge the bladesworn benchmark. The only thing have a terrible gunsaber does is artificially inflate the skill floor to be effective (punishing newer players) and make the spec a 1-dimensional bore in the open world.

I think there is some fair comments here. I've put in about 40 hours in PVE on BsW and I find that almost every time I'm in Gunsaber, I can't wait to get back to Axe/Pistol. I really don't see any reason to use it, except to empty out my ammo stocks from it before swapping back. 

I think really what's happening is that Anet just didn't have the bandwidth to expand the explosion idea any more on the spec so we have this weapon all set for taking advantage of Explosions and just ONE minor trait that does anything with them. Seems like an idea that got dropped on the design table and never fleshed out further.  It feels like getting paid in pennies. 

Edited March 14, 2022 by Obtena.7952