Willbender's offhand sword needs to turn your main hand #3 into a dual attack

[Falseprophet.1502]

Being one week in, playing a power Willbender feels so incredibly stale, uninspired, and completely behind the condition variant. The offhand sword really needs to transform the main hand weapon's third skill into something that allows for much better synergy for the profession. The main hand sword's root on Zealot's Defense is antithetical to the design of Willbender, Scepter's Chains of Light is useless, and Mace's Protector's Strike leaves little reason to be desired in the kit. 

[Gwaihir.1745]

Guardian has backloaded damage, ticking symbols, ticking meditations, and their frontloaded damage all already have tradeoffs like sword 3 immobilize, gs2 slow, mace 3 condition of being hit. Something needs to change. I see scepter willbenders running around but you can just stand still and move faster than those projectiles.

[KeoLegend.5132]

Funny. Im loving Willbender. Spec condibender. So much fun, mobile and strong

[idolin.2831]

2 hours ago, KeoLegend.5132 said:

Funny. Im loving Willbender. Spec condibender. So much fun, mobile and strong

How is this contributing to the conversation when literally the first sentence the OP wrote was "power Willbender feels so incredibly stale, uninspired, and completely behind the condition variant"?

[Falseprophet.1502]

3 hours ago, idolin.2831 said:

How is this contributing to the conversation when literally the first sentence the OP wrote was "power Willbender feels so incredibly stale, uninspired, and completely behind the condition variant"?

THANK YOU. Forums are a cesspool of something else. 

[Adonan.7985]

29 minutes ago, Falseprophet.1502 said:

THANK YOU. Forums are a cesspool of something else. 

I think they just weren't paying attention...

If this is what constitutes a cesspool, then our standards must have jumped up since yesterday.

[JPUlisses.8756]

idk, I really like a quick defense/ranged option on a melee weapon, but I get what you mean it does not fit the theme. but at sametime I would rather have them change 4 and 5 into something else more useful while keeping the shadowsteps.

maybe the traits should be more about blocking, shadowstep and virtues and each should have condi, power, mobility in mind.

Edited March 10, 2022 by JPUlisses.8756

[Falseprophet.1502]

Another patch, another day where core guard is completely contradictory to Willbender's design. 

 

 

[Kulvar.1239]

On 3/8/2022 at 8:16 PM, Gwaihir.1745 said:

Guardian has backloaded damage, ticking symbols, ticking meditations, and their frontloaded damage all already have tradeoffs like sword 3 immobilize, gs2 slow, mace 3 condition of being hit. Something needs to change. I see scepter willbenders running around but you can just stand still and move faster than those projectiles.

Nothing WB specific. Scepter AA has been like this since forever. Slow projectiles, playing tennis animation, horrible sound effect.

I wish for Scepter AA to be changed so at least the sound effect is tone down and the animation is less silly (it's even worse with Quickness). Maybe give it a 3-steps AA with exactly the same effect but with a more fluid animation sequence.

[Arolandis.8360]

Can we please have this, Anet?

Sword 3 has gotten so stale and old over the years and usually doesn't really feel great to use.

And can we also please have our movement during our F2 skill sped up? It feels like you're just walking when you use it. Think about how the elementalist dagger "dash" skills look/feel. It should be like those. (they have like, 3 on weaver)

Willbender's mostly in the spot it should be in right now so don't nerf it. sPVP it's pretty strong in but burst in general is very good there. In WvW it's just "Good". Most people are much tankier there and can deal with burst. So it's fine there but could use a tiny bit more speed on that F2. This sort of playstyle only works with burst and mobility, Anet, remember that!

But really. Sword 3 dual attack, don't care if other weapons didn't get it. I play Willbender and Rev for the dual sword assassin playstyles.

Edited July 19, 2022 by Arolandis.8360

[Falseprophet.1502]

I still really believe in this idea and deserves consideration. If thoughtfully designed, it would:

• Bring up Zealot's Defense to today's design standards
• Introduce scepter and mace into the kit and make offhand sword a little more desirable in PvE.
• Allow for a better flow and synergy with the overall elite spec

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Rooting on skills should be removed from all skills.

 

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Rooting on skills should be removed from all skills.

 

Hard disagree with this. Many powerful skills are just allowed to be as powerful as they are because they are rooting you in place during the channel, if this is gone we need to water them down alot.

And besides throwing us into another balancing nightmare which would need good follow up (and if the february 2020 patch has taught us anything, it's that quick follow up is really... difficult for anet), there is also the aspect that alot of class fantasy goes out the window. Deadeye not kneeling for sniping is something I would personally miss. And I might be the minority here, but I like Bladesworn's dragon trigger, which is another skill which would get watered down extremely if they remove the rooting aspect.

[aelska.4609]

Why asking sw#3 change for willbender only ? This skill has been decried for years now, QoL changes should be transversal to all specs.

[otto.5684]

7 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Hard disagree with this. Many powerful skills are just allowed to be as powerful as they are because they are rooting you in place during the channel, if this is gone we need to water them down alot.

And besides throwing us into another balancing nightmare which would need good follow up (and if the february 2020 patch has taught us anything, it's that quick follow up is really... difficult for anet), there is also the aspect that alot of class fantasy goes out the window. Deadeye not kneeling for sniping is something I would personally miss. And I might be the minority here, but I like Bladesworn's dragon trigger, which is another skill which would get watered down extremely if they remove the rooting aspect.

There are exceptions, but most root skills do not make sense. Guardian specifically, sword 3, not terribly bad, but completely out of place on WB. LB 2, it made sense to be a root in pvp when it had 4 sec CD and did 6k damage, in 2015. Now it barely breaks 3.5k on a crit, while have 0.75 sec cast time and 8 secs CD in spvp. This is garbage. 

[Kodama.6453]

7 minutes ago, otto.5684 said:

There are exceptions, but most root skills do not make sense. Guardian specifically, sword 3, not terribly bad, but completely out of place on WB. LB 2, it made sense to be a root in pvp when it had 4 sec CD and did 6k damage, in 2015. Now it barely breaks 3.5k on a crit, while have 0.75 sec cast time and 8 secs CD in spvp. This is garbage. 

Sure, skills which got changed to a point that the root is no longer warranted should be revisited.

But the one I replied to said that ALL roots should be removed from ALL skills. Which is the same balancing approach we had back then when they blatantly removed the damage from all CC abilities without considering their context. Many CC abilities were balanced around dealing huge damage and having CC because they had other parameters which were balancing them out.

Look at Big Ol' Bomb. One of the highest telegraphs in the game, it places a big powder keg on the ground with a big red circle around it. It takes 3 seconds before it explodes, which is quite alot of time to leave the area. These factors are why it is a pretty good hitter in PvE (almost 2,5 power coefficient). But in PvP, this skill is absolutely useless now. That high telegraph for a launch alone with no damage... when engineer has tons of launches available with way less counterplay.

We have to consider the context of the skills. Removing all roots across the board means we also have to reevaluate all these skills. There is no way in hell that dragon trigger will still be allowed to deal as much damage as it does when you are allowed to move freely during the charge up. It will probably get it's damage nerfed that hard that it loses it's identity, now just being another generic "normal" hard hitter, instead of being this monster which can pull out 200k damage on a single hit.

[Falseprophet.1502]

The purpose of me bringing this up for conversation is to create a clear dichotomy between each Guardian elite specialization. Willbender's only flavor is movement. Core Guardian is antithetical to this, leaving a lot of the core kit to be desired when playing Willbender, Zealot's Defense is being one of them.

 

I'm not asking to for the root to be removed. I'm asking for the skill to be completely redesigned for the Willbender spec. It's hard to argue, even when you're not a Guardian main, that Chains of Light, Protector's Strike, or Zealot's Defense actually contribute to this specialization in a positive or fun way. Leaving these weapons as is, further discourages build diversity and the differentiation between Willbender and core Guardian.

 

What I would like to see with an offhand sword equipped - these are incredibly rough ideas. This is strictly my opinion on how to make Willbender more fun and engaging in all game modes. 

• Zealot's Defense becomes a dual whirl attack, three stacks of vulnerability if both attacks hit. Projectile block is now removed.
• Chains of Light becomes a channeled beam skill with a 1 1/2 cast, 900 range, 6x attacks, burn is applied if all six attacks hit. Immobilization is removed. -or- this can operate as another flip skill, a 600-900 range port in, a strike, then the second flip can teleport back to original position. The theory would to port in, dump sword skills, get a couple scepter AA autos in (lol @ scepter auto attack pathing) and port out. 
• Protector's Strike becomes a flip skill. Aegis and Protection upon successful block is removed, instead, the first skill is a single strike hits the target and applies vulnerability. The second activation of the second skill dazes if the target is above the vulnerability threshold, quickness if the target is not above the vulnerability threshold. 

Edited July 19, 2022 by Falseprophet.1502

[Falseprophet.1502]

Bumping this hoping a dev will see this as there is still time to squeeze this in the October balance patch! Help fix power Willbender without power creeping the condi variants!

[Saiyan.1704]

I just want my damage back for WB in sPvP... Marauder builds hits like a wet noodle and Zerk builds is asking to be farmed by a thief.

How is Anet going to nerf F2 sustains AND our damage? Worse class balance decision ever.

[Arctarius.2649]

you argued with me on my post, but we are fighting for the same thing. I agree, make the sword 4-5 do more damage and make sword 3 entirely unique if willbender wields both swords. 

Edited August 19, 2022 by Arctarius.2649

[Falseprophet.1502]

31 minutes ago, Arctarius.2649 said:

you argued with me on my post, but we are fighting for the same thing. I agree, make the sword 4-5 do more damage and make sword 3 entirely unique if willbender wields both swords. 

You made wrong statements, apologized for them, and I moved on 🙂

[Arctarius.2649]

9 hours ago, Falseprophet.1502 said:

You made wrong statements, apologized for them, and I moved on 🙂

Its time to join forces and beg anet to buff the god kitten off hand sword. 

[SentriX.3209]

Just copy paste warrior/ranger axe 5 onto guard sword 3...problem solved.

[Crypt.9062]

Ya i just finished unlocking willbender, and one im pretty annoyed there power willbender is not great, but also that when wielding this sword you get this really bad skill for willbender, its not great for a class thats zipping around to the target getting into their face to just get rooted in place and fire off slashes, it just feels wrong for this elite spec. 

Please change it to something more intuitive for the elite spec something that feels like it belongs and hopefully something strong or helpful to the class. 

[draxynnic.3719]

On 7/18/2022 at 6:48 PM, Arolandis.8360 said:

And can we also please have our movement during our F2 skill sped up? It feels like you're just walking when you use it. Think about how the elementalist dagger "dash" skills look/feel. It should be like those. (they have like, 3 on weaver)

Maybe revert it to the distance it was originally? They cut the distance in half when they made it an ammo skill, but now it's no longer an ammo skill in sPvP, it's probably reasonable to give it a bit more distance.

 

On 7/20/2022 at 3:14 AM, Falseprophet.1502 said:

It's hard to argue, even when you're not a Guardian main, that Chains of Light, Protector's Strike, or Zealot's Defense actually contribute to this specialization in a positive or fun way.

Chains of Light: Immobilise the target so it's harder for them to get away when you follow up with one of the copious quantity of fields that willbender has available.

Protector's Strike: If you're going for damage, you're not taking mace. But it's another source of aegis if you want to run an aegis-abusing builds, which can be quite fun in open world even if it's not QUITE so strong as it was in beta.

Zealot's Defence: Exit melee contact with one of the copious number of skills available to willbender to do so (but F2 is probably best). Zealot's Defence, then re-engage while hopefully having regained a bit of health, without having to switch to a ranged set. Or just, y'know, Zealot's Defence right in the enemy's face to shut down their projectiles while unleashing an eight-hit attack which contributes to whichever virtue effect you currently have active.

If anything, I think they work better with willbender than any of your suggestions except maybe Chains of Light, and your suggestion is basically to turn that into a worse Zealot's Defence apart from range and maybe coefficients.

 

Now, there are definitely some coefficient buffs needed, and I wouldn't complain about mobile Zealot's Defence, but I think the skills work well as they are.