Thoughts on Harbinger Blight and Elixir Design

[FalsePromises.6398]

After a little while of playing harbinger and finding something I can comfortably play, I think I've found some key issues in the designs of blight and elixirs that I wanted to talk about here. 

One of the first things that comes to mind is that harbinger's blight is highly reminiscent of holosmith's heat, but there's some vital differences that make holosmith feel so much more intuitive. Looking at heat vs blight, the key differences are: heat doesn't have any innate negative effects, you have to overheat first to lose health; heat is not consumed when you use a utility or weapon skill that scales by heat threshold, only by skills you have to intently trait for; and you can gain excess heat by using skills in your holoforge instead of using utilities. One of the complaints I hear about playing harbinger for higher-end damage roles is that you are obligated to take 2-3 elixirs just for blight maintenance and damage buffs, which leaves you with little flexibility. I think a step in the right direction is to push blight maintenance purely or at least mostly into the shroud itself by making other shroud skills generate blight (perhaps the 2 and 5 skills) and removing blight maintenance from elixirs. You should have better reasons to take elixirs, like actual casted effects, and making blight maintenance more tied into shroud skills would make the shroud a lot more interesting and multidimensional. 

Second, I notice blight is a fluctuating buff/debuff which creates a problem when the positive and negative effects of blight aren't separated: when you use skills to reduce the negative (or consume them for bonus positive) you lose other positive buffs. This could be addressed by separating the buffs received from skills like Septic Corruption and Wicked Corruption (as well as the regenerative effect from blight baseline) from the blight itself, by making these effects a separate buff that you gain every time you gain a blight stack, yet doesn't get removed when you lose blight. This would allow blight to be better used as a resource for bonus damage effects on skills that consume it without having that awkward counterintuitive interaction with reducing your damage buffs in the process. 

Third, I want to stop and look at the elixirs for a long and hard moment... and say this ain't it. This part's a little bit creative-oriented, so pardon the monologue, but... thinking for a moment, if I'm becoming a gun-slinging necromantic caster that pushes the boundaries of alchemy and corruption with dragon-infused jade, I should see a little more than two boons and a thrown condition. If you ask me? Do away with the formulaic, basic style and turn these elixirs into truly vile things. Drawing a little inspiration from Skyrim, there was a wizard who surgically infused spiders with potions to give them destructive magical auras and resistances. In that theme, I could see these harbinger elixirs turned into things that give you unique powers and auras while sharing bonus boons to your allies, or show your enemies the dark side of science with serious casted/thrown damage and debilitation. I'd love to see throwing acids that would make Nicabar Steelweaver wince, or tonics that give you dangerous player-oriented damage fields or emanating enhancive effects for your allies. Heck, even some venom-like effects could work. Regardless, I'd hope for variety and competitive standalone damage in the elixir skillset as opposed to being almost unable to tell one elixir from the next yet being obligated to run them for damage optimization. Now you might be thinking "but harbinger already does strong dps, it doesn't need buffs" to which I say make the design great first, then worry about numbers. 

I was skeptical of harbinger at first, was not a fan of ANOTHER dhuumfire-spamming, shroud-health-discarding condi spec (especially one that also managed to step on reaper's toes with team quickness AND FURY in reaper's exact self-quickness-in-shroud style that people have been begging anet to let them share, but that's another topic), but I see a little more of its merit after getting comfortable with it. Pistol feels great to have (even if I wish I still got an offhand pistol to match, for the sake of having more skills), the blight interactions in shroud at least are fun for bonus damage gimmicks (for the people who don't fall asleep at the keyboard), and I could probably get used to the lack of fear and shoehorned mobility with time, so long as they're not at the expense of damage or other forms of debilitation. 

What are other peoples thoughts on elixirs and blight? Any similar (or differing) ideas? I'd like to hear them. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by FalsePromises.6398

[Dadnir.5038]

Blight: I'm "ok" with it as there is now a true inate advantage in having blight stacks, the health regen (I'd have prefered endurance regeneration with traits focused on dodging but one can't always get what they want).

Elixirs: They are just bloated. Personally, I'd have pushed the boon sharing job onto the shroud via traits instead of puting almost everything onto elixirs. I'm fine with the self boon they grant and even the blight management but the boon sharing via trait and uninspired damage/condition when above blight treshold just feel boring (make me sweat noxious ghosts/minions that help me harrass my foes instead. even if they share the jagged horror minion cap. At least it would fulfill the necromancer's romance of having minions).

Edited March 10, 2022 by Dadnir.5038

[The Boz.2038]

Elixirs: Still boring, still uninspired, still ineffective in PvE. There is no scenario in which sharing any of the boons (at one third stacks) for half the time is in any way valuable. Budget plasma on a 90 second cooldown is completely useless. The condi DPS build utilizes core skills only, and scepter almost half the time. Power is a meme; ineffective in PvE, can hit like a truck once in a blue moon in PvP. Needs rethought. Maintaining/providing 100% uptime of a boon provided by an elixir should be doable in PvE.

Blight: Now no longer super strong, now no longer super punishing. Totally no interaction with a support build. Missed opportunity here. Juggling the gain/shed with elixirs feels... awkward, but at least it's something.

I think one-size-fits-all measures do not work here. A heal elixir should always reduce blight, and then do something (+~(80+0.07 Healing Power) heal increase?) per blight removed. An offensive elixir (might, fury, quickness) should always increase blight and be a yeet "grenade". Introduce more reliability into the design.

[Dr Meta.3158]

I think this latest iteration of harbinger is the best they've done thus far so at least its now moving in a positive direction. I do agree the support is lacking (beyond just quickness and fury) though support hasn't really been a strong suit of guildwars either being too ineffective or too much with no middle ground. 

 

Its also weird that only the heal and elite elixir do condition damage and power as whole has been relegated to low dps/high burst though thats always been the relationship of power to condition damage.

I also think the elixirs are bloated because they are typically not worth taking over core necromancer utilities... especially in pvp where spectral wurm and spectral walk are must haves so you really only get one utility option that and nerfing either of those mainstays (especially spectral walk) just slowly kills all of the necromancer specs viability in pvp overall. Its the soul reaping problem in utility form.

 

It would ideally be cool if elixirs turned blight stacks into boons based on the elixir used and it increasing in potency/duration based on how many stacks are consumed.

[FalsePromises.6398]

18 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Elixirs: They are just bloated. Personally, I'd have pushed the boon sharing job onto the shroud via traits instead of puting almost everything onto elixirs. I'm fine with the self boon they grant and even the blight management but the boon sharing via trait and uninspired damage/condition when above blight treshold just feel boring

I can kinda see where you're coming from with talking about elixir bloat: it feels offputting that they're pushed so hard not only because of their blight management but also because there's two traits that affect the same skill type in harbinger. THAT feels unnatural. I could definitely agree with replacing the elixir boonshare with adding boons to shroud instead, or maybe moving the boonshare to the first column elixir trait and then making the middle column boon trait make shroud apply boons as well (and hopefully getting rid of the throwing elixir part, if that happens). Maybe something that could share spite's might generation (or just a blanket mightshare trait like phalanx strength)? Or, it would be neat if boon harbinger was REALLY a high output boon spec and had some new effects reminiscent of engineer's alchemy like Iron-Blooded (incoming damage reduction per boon on you). 

15 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

…The condi DPS build utilizes core skills only, and scepter almost half the time... 
…Juggling the gain/shed with elixirs feels... awkward, but at least it's something.

I think one-size-fits-all measures do not work here. A heal elixir should always reduce blight, and then do something (+~(80+0.07 Healing Power) heal increase?) per blight removed. An offensive elixir (might, fury, quickness) should always increase blight and be a yeet "grenade". Introduce more reliability into the design.

If you mean condi DPS in pvp utilizes core skills only, that's probable, but not in PvE. That's where you're taking 2-3 elixirs just to maximize blight. About the juggling blight with elixirs, I do like it as well, but I'd like it better as a shroud function instead of something you use 2-3 utility slots for. Going off of that, I do agree that making the elixirs variegated in effects and how they interact with blight is the best route. I'd avoid anything outright explosive though, because then that's bait for complaints in pvp and consequent nerfs. Rapidly pulsing fields are the best option for high outright damage across all modes in my opinion. 

13 hours ago, Metaologist.2487 said:

It would ideally be cool if elixirs turned blight stacks into boons based on the elixir used and it increasing in potency/duration based on how many stacks are consumed.

Maybe if they MASSIVELY uptick the blight sources, I'd be okay with elixirs consuming more blight, but I'm already feeling pinched for blight in open world running three already. I'd prefer elixirs to maybe scale effect based on blight, but not consume it in particular for their effects or else you'd be in a constant blight drought between that and your shroud skills consuming blight too. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by FalsePromises.6398

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

blight is a far too punishing mechanic in Wvw at least. spvp has lower overall dmg around but u also explode there quick, when focused. like cutting 60%+ of your own hp leaves u at twoshot range at least for any dps class.

plus, harbinger has no good way out of stuns

 

[i tested sofar: Power harbinger | cele harbinger ..... mostly tried making them doing decent strips besides the dmg, which admittedly is only randomly working. the pew pew as main dmg on harbinger is just not too useful and it has FAR less range than other pew pew things]

 

about Elixirs: them not beeing instant cast is horrible. they are slow and clunky that way, worst case they even get reflected. and if u throw heal one, u don't get a heal actually (only if ur in its radius, unless that was a bug)

 

the class is very necro, slow and obvious cast in everything. it's still fun to play kinda. having a fast necro finally is nice, ngl

[Legend of Rogue.5394]

Elixers are ridiculous. Nothing to do with Necromancers what so ever. I hate the concept and the design. Low stats

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

i mean i obviously dont run wanderers or so for boon uptime (bc that's kinda ridiculous on a pvp mode like wvw) but yes, also the uptime for the boons on harbinger is imo far too short. you're barely able to pop the elixirs timely in a lot of cases as they're slow cast and the 1 stack of self stab with 3 seconds is just.... a prank? its a main trait even and does nothing else

additionally, shroud has like 7-8 seconds cooldown, that's like twice as long as it could/should be

 

the concept overall is fine imo. a fast mode necro, whynot.

but comparing to ranger, holo and thief, why does it get drowned in downsides? no class has such hard self penalty and harbinger dmg isn't really higher

Edited March 15, 2022 by kamikharzeeh.8016

[KrHome.1920]

The harbinger mechanic is way to complicated and the double damage design of some skills (including elixiers) is a nightmare to balance. ANet tried to hard to generate something new and unique and it ended in a mess

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

which mechanic u mean  tho, blight? it's super simple but it shouldn't have this huge HP cutting problem, combined with the unusual: no shroud 2nd lifebar, no barrier, low healing options, barely cleanse, barely stunbreaks, barely stab, fully interruptable and slowable dash/leaps

 

just a bad setup, likely not planned for Wvw and spvp gamemodes.

[Dadnir.5038]

15 minutes ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

which mechanic u mean  tho, blight? it's super simple but it shouldn't have this huge HP cutting problem, combined with the unusual: no shroud 2nd lifebar, no barrier, low healing options, barely cleanse, barely stunbreaks, barely stab, fully interruptable and slowable dash/leaps

 

just a bad setup, likely not planned for Wvw and spvp gamemodes.

I do agree that nothing is complicated on harbinger.

The health loss from blight and, in general, the harbinger's survivability is fine as long as you don't try to face tank. The harbinger have high enough health sustain to make up for the losses.

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

just wrong tho. the health is probably the lowest possible. 1v2 is absurdly hard bc one daze and ur done. the activation of shroud itself is clunky , idk why but it has some delay at both enter and exist that sometimes doesn't let u swap in-out fluently. unlike other shrouds.

 

yeah funny, as long as u don't face tank. u have 2 dodges, else u simply have not a lot of options. u can surely waste your gap closers, who are both still doing solid dmg, to move around, but outside of shroud ur plainly one slow fat but low HP necro who cannot do much than f#t kid walk. nice.

 

also shroud capacity isn't really high. u cannot stay in it long, but then it goes on a 7-8 second cooldown. thats long for average fights. not to mention the absurd 1min 30 seconds cooldown on elite elixir... for what, 4-5 seconds of boonload lol

 

[jpsssss.7530]

As a small scale WvWer (group if 5-ish), its in a a bad spot. It isn’t even good in blobs. Elixirs are neat, but were overall a bad choice for this class. Its great that they want necro to have a glass cannon spec, but it doesn’t have the tools to pull that off (good stunbreaks, get out of jail free blinks, blocks, evades, invuln… like every other class does) outside of PvE…

On top of trading up to 37.5% of your max health for kitten peanuts, you no longer have shroud to help with durability (which is why core necro has bad stunbreaks and mobility and no invulns, blocks, evades, etc.). On top of not having shroud health, you don’t even get access to your utility skills, unlike holosmith…

[maxwelgm.4315]

Speaking only from the more creative side - I agree generally that elixirs lack originality by a long shot. They gave mesmer (a notoriously complex class) the Virtuoso elite spec so players have a simpler, no-bull**** option for the otherwise complicated playstyle, so why not give necromancer (a notoriously simple class) some more creative playstyles and complexity with Harbinger?

 

Imagine if quickness wasn't a simply pulsing effect and actually had to be part of your shroud rotation like Chrono has to do, or imagine if elixirs made it so that specific combo fields emanated from you for a set amount of time with bonus boons everytime you or someone blasted them. We should have gotten the Necromancer's equivalent of piano play for all the damage this spec can do. Not that I care about spamming all utility bar and going into shroud for 30 seconds, but I already had that with Reaper - give us something actually diverse.

Edited March 18, 2022 by maxwelgm.4315

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, maxwelgm.4315 said:

mesmer (a notoriously complex class)

lol

2 hours ago, maxwelgm.4315 said:

Not that I care about spamming all utility bar and going into shroud for 30 seconds

You're terrible at necro/reaper if you really do that.

 

I think you're missing the logic the devs use when they design things for each profession due to some common prejudice: classifying thing as simple and complex.

There is no consideration over whether something is simple or complex in the developpement (even if the devs can sometime say otherwise). The drive behind each design is to have the player use it's profession/spec main mechanism. Nothing more nothing less.

- For elementalist the main mechanism is to regularly switch attunment, they don't want the player to sit into a single attunment. It was true for core, it's true for tempest, just like it's true for weaver and catalyst.

- For engineer, they want you to use your belt skills.

- For guardian they want you to use your virtues and don't want you to sit on the passive.

- For mesmer they want players to generate clones and blast them.

- For necromancer they want him to be in shroud for roughly 10s then leave it for roughly 10s.

- For ranger they want you to use your pet even if it's a failed mechanism.

- For revenant, they want the player to switch legends, they even go as far as add 2 legend skillset on vindicator.

- For thief they them to 'steal' to gain endurance so that you can dodge more with DD, to mark your target with DE and to drain shadow force with specter.

- For warrior they want you to burst, to spend this adrenaline.

It's not a matter of simple or complex it's a matter of what the devs intend each profession to do. The chrono follow the profession's creed of blasting it's clone while the harbinger follow it's own profession's creed of going into shroud for roughly 10s every 10s. You don't sit into shroud for 30s (even if you technically have the LF necessary to do so) simply because if you do that you're losing effectiveness.

[maxwelgm.4315]

12 minutes ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

lol

You're terrible at necro/reaper if you really do that.

 

I think you're missing the logic the devs use when they design things for each profession due to some common prejudice: classifying thing as simple and complex.

There is no consideration over whether something is simple or complex in the developpement (even if the devs can sometime say otherwise). The drive behind each design is to have the player use it's profession/spec main mechanism. Nothing more nothing less.

- For elementalist the main mechanism is to regularly switch attunment, they don't want the player to sit into a single attunment. It was true for core, it's true for tempest, just like it's true for weaver and catalyst.

- For engineer, they want you to use your belt skills.

- For guardian they want you to use your virtues and don't want you to sit on the passive.

- For mesmer they want players to generate clones and blast them.

- For necromancer they want him to be in shroud for roughly 10s then leave it for roughly 10s.

- For ranger they want you to use your pet even if it's a failed mechanism.

- For revenant, they want the player to switch legends, they even go as far as add 2 legend skillset on vindicator.

- For thief they them to 'steal' to gain endurance so that you can dodge more with DD, to mark your target with DE and to drain shadow force with specter.

- For warrior they want you to burst, to spend this adrenaline.

It's not a matter of simple or complex it's a matter of what the devs intend each profession to do. The chrono follow the profession's creed of blasting it's clone while the harbinger follow it's own profession's creed of going into shroud for roughly 10s every 10s. You don't sit into shroud for 30s (even if you technically have the LF necessary to do so) simply because if you do that you're losing effectiveness.

 

Those are very good points actually. One of the best harbinger rotations however is literally blasting your entire bar and sitting on Shroud 1 until you have enough cooldowns to go back to hit your head on the entire bar again. That's pretty much still sitting on it for however many seconds you deem adequate to be efficient - blight management is non-existent and I will double down on it that sitting on any of the 3 shrouds is viable and not something the design makes so inefficient as to be a bad choice at all, so how is that different from ranger pets failing at their design intent?

 

The same is not true of Mesmer clones because you can and should manage their amount and specific types depending on the situation you find yourself in - everything you mention as design intent, very true aspects of each class by the way, are still translatable into adding complexity to each class in different ways on top of the very baseline weapon and utility skills usage, with the advantage that simplicity vs complexity provide a bird's eye view, and from this point it is very true that class mechanics are all over the place and a lot of misses are made like Harbinger's unoriginal blight+elixirs combo, while a lot of good hits land such as mesmer and ele having actual engagement to its playstyle.

[SleepyBat.9034]

On 3/15/2022 at 8:14 AM, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

just wrong tho. the health is probably the lowest possible. 1v2 is absurdly hard bc one daze and ur done. the activation of shroud itself is clunky , idk why but it has some delay at both enter and exist that sometimes doesn't let u swap in-out fluently. unlike other shrouds.

 

yeah funny, as long as u don't face tank. u have 2 dodges, else u simply have not a lot of options. u can surely waste your gap closers, who are both still doing solid dmg, to move around, but outside of shroud ur plainly one slow fat but low HP necro who cannot do much than f#t kid walk. nice.

 

also shroud capacity isn't really high. u cannot stay in it long, but then it goes on a 7-8 second cooldown. thats long for average fights. not to mention the absurd 1min 30 seconds cooldown on elite elixir... for what, 4-5 seconds of boonload lol

 

The health is not the lowest possible, you get 240 vitality just for being a Harbinger. 1 daze isn't going to make much of a difference in a 1v2. The activation of shroud is not clunky, you might have high ping.

You shouldn't really be camping shroud and 10 seconds cd isn't bad at all. Elixir of Ambition is probably one of the strongest elite skills in the game, 1min, 30sec cd is fine.

[LucianDK.8615]

49 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

The health is not the lowest possible, you get 240 vitality just for being a Harbinger. 1 daze isn't going to make much of a difference in a 1v2. The activation of shroud is not clunky, you might have high ping.

You shouldn't really be camping shroud and 10 seconds cd isn't bad at all. Elixir of Ambition is probably one of the strongest elite skills in the game, 1min, 30sec cd is fine.

So far all the builds I see on the meta sites clings to plaguelands for pve.

[SleepyBat.9034]

20 minutes ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

So far all the builds I see on the meta sites clings to plaguelands for pve.

Well I was talking about WvW and PvP.

[Dadnir.5038]

2 hours ago, maxwelgm.4315 said:

 

Those are very good points actually. One of the best harbinger rotations however is literally blasting your entire bar and sitting on Shroud 1 until you have enough cooldowns to go back to hit your head on the entire bar again. That's pretty much still sitting on it for however many seconds you deem adequate to be efficient - blight management is non-existent and I will double down on it that sitting on any of the 3 shrouds is viable and not something the design makes so inefficient as to be a bad choice at all, so how is that different from ranger pets failing at their design intent?

The point of the 10s in shroud is that if you go beyond you lose 10% of your damage due to soul barb. If you stay longer in shroud, harbinger or not, you lose quite a bit.

Personally I think it would have been be better to bring back flash shrouding as a gameplay but when HoT was released the devs more or less gave up to this gameplay. (Or should I say they forced us to gave up on it? Opponent in PvP didn't like it either, thought)

You can't really manage blight and in fact you don't really want to do it. The harbinger is gear toward a single purpose: having as much blight as possible on himself and shroud is the best way to get it.

Edited March 18, 2022 by Dadnir.5038

[LucianDK.8615]

3 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

The point of the 10s in shroud is that if you go beyond you lose 10% of your damage due to soul barb. If you stay longer in shroud, harbinger or not, you lose quite a bit.

Personally I think it would have been be better to bring back flash shrouding as a gameplay but when HoT was released the devs more or less gave up to this gameplay. (Or should I say they forced us to gave up on it? Opponent in PvP didn't like it either, thought)

You can't really manage blight and in fact you don't really want to do it. The harbinger is gear toward a single purpose: having as much blight as possible on himself and shroud is the best way to get it.

Well in smaller places like fractals you are pretty much forced to do it, or you will get intimate with the floor due to low health

[LucianDK.8615]

On another note, I came to wonder. Is the Harbinger pretty much always aiming to splash himself to build up blight fast as well maintaining it?

[kamikharzeeh.8016]

the point is, harb shroud is weak. u use your own health. during that time, u have no access to cleanse or stab (after 3s where trait runs out u done like 1-2 attacks at best)

 

the shroud attacks are half blockable by missile shielding.

 

next part @LucianDK.8615 yeah, u gotta use flasks for blight buildup. it forces u into those kinda.

 

for all those downparts, your dmg output on harbinger still only equals a ton of old specs, like renegade, reaper, daredevil, deadeye, core ranger, soulb ranger, dragonhunter etc etc etc... and those beaters usually have way better sustain or access to stealth.

Edited March 20, 2022 by kamikharzeeh.8016

[LucianDK.8615]

8 hours ago, kamikharzeeh.8016 said:

the point is, harb shroud is weak. u use your own health. during that time, u have no access to cleanse or stab (after 3s where trait runs out u done like 1-2 attacks at best)

 

the shroud attacks are half blockable by missile shielding.

 

next part @LucianDK.8615 yeah, u gotta use flasks for blight buildup. it forces u into those kinda.

 

for all those downparts, your dmg output on harbinger still only equals a ton of old specs, like renegade, reaper, daredevil, deadeye, core ranger, soulb ranger, dragonhunter etc etc etc... and those beaters usually have way better sustain or access to stealth.

Snowcrows have benchmarked Harbingers to be second best in damage on small hitbox, only edged out by the Virtuosu, which is superb compared to where dps necromancers usually laid among the bottom of the barrel. Virtuosu's give up a lot of defensive utility too.   

But I do agree we give up a lot of defense for good damage, the curse of the defensive shroud and high hp resting heavilly on us.

 

But look at what which have happened with the Scourge over the years, increasingly hollowed out because of it offering damage and defenses that made it stackable.      Now?, while it still have some damage, the specialty of barrier is all but non existent if you are not a heal scourge. Plus sustain took a big hit with the nerf to torment runes.       Yet I still see the ocassional claim of scourge still being broken.     Anet might as well just redesign Scourge into a complete healer espec with no damage.

[Asum.4960]

2 hours ago, LucianDK.8615 said:

Snowcrows have benchmarked Harbingers to be second best in damage on small hitbox, only edged out by the Virtuosu, which is superb compared to where dps necromancers usually laid among the bottom of the barrel. Virtuosu's give up a lot of defensive utility too.   

But I do agree we give up a lot of defense for good damage, the curse of the defensive shroud and high hp resting heavilly on us.

 

But look at what which have happened with the Scourge over the years, increasingly hollowed out because of it offering damage and defenses that made it stackable.      Now?, while it still have some damage, the specialty of barrier is all but non existent if you are not a heal scourge. Plus sustain took a big hit with the nerf to torment runes.       Yet I still see the ocassional claim of scourge still being broken.     Anet might as well just redesign Scourge into a complete healer espec with no damage.

Having checked out Virtuoso recently, it's weird how similar they are in a way as very high, ranged and largely projectile based condition DPS specs. 

 

Defense wise through, Virtuoso comes with a built in 2 second at will block, 2 second off-hand Sword Block, optional 3 second Invuln Utility, Vigor from core DPS line Traits, Aegis access (plus a myriad of other non meta core Utility, from Stealth to Reflects to Blinks) etc. - while Harbinger gets some more flat HP and one 0.5 second Evade in a 0.75 second animation behind another CD in Shroud. 

 

I genuinely think defensive tools are balanced around skill clicking on CD at this point, with Anet therefor way overvaluing flat defense like HP and Shroud - even though a single duration block can match that damage absorption if timed right, plus prevent vital mechanics such as getting CC'ed. 

 

Essentially, if a profession is designed around skill based defense or non-plain Trait interactions, it's allowed easily three times the defense and Utility - because in a low skill environment that matches up about equally (of if genuinely just pressing everything on CD, even in favour of the flat defense). 

 

As for Barrier and it's stackable nature, as well as Scourge with that - ideas to decouple DPS Scourge Builds and Support Scourge Builds via GM Traits that alter the Fx skills have been around for a good 4 years now. There is really no need to butcher the spec (as DPS choice). 

If Sand Savant turned the Fx skills into largely defensive skills (Barrier, maybe some added boons like Might on Manifest Shade/Sand Cascade and/or Alacrity on Desert Shroud, while removing Torment from Manifest Sand Shade and Desert Shroud, as well as making it not extend Target caps), and Demonic Lore turned them into offensive skills (remove Barrier from Sand Cascade, add extra Torment), as well as making Sadistic Searing a viable and competitive damage Trait so Desert Empowerment isn't a free choice - and DPS Scourge proving highly stackable defense is largely fixed (something I'm pretty sure I could find suggestion posts about from myself from 2018).

Edited March 20, 2022 by Asum.4960