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Meta + Strike Missions = Turtle. No thank you.


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1 hour ago, yoni.7015 said:

This wasn’t the point. The point was that this handful of people is just here to complain. So no matter how much help or advices the community offers them, they are not interested. They are now complaining for weeks (!), in that time they could have done the strike mission ten times. But they don’t even want to try. I hope this is not their mentality in real life. That would be sad. 

Here’s the fundamental disconnect in the conversation. People don’t like this kind of content, and other people don’t understand why giving advice on how to just get through it does nothing to change that.

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Just want to say that the story and locations for EoD are fantastic, love them, but requiring, for the moment, to run the Meta then Strike Mission to unlock the Siege Turtle really just turns me off t

You were ok with playing the game without the turtle, but now that there's more content and you don't want to do small parts of the expansion rewarding you with the turtle... it somehow kills the whol

Just to offer some support to the OP - you are not alone.  I am a casual gaming parent myself, and neither myself nor my son would have bought the expansion had we known the Turtle was locked behind a

12 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Here’s the fundamental disconnect in the conversation. People don’t like this kind of content, and other people don’t understand why giving advice on how to just get through it does nothing to change that.

Ok then, keep complaining if 10 minutes of content you don’t like (and probably never tried) is too much to ask. I mean group content in an MMORPG, how can someone like that? But I’m not sure if complaining 24/7 will make you so much happier. 

Edited by yoni.7015
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I really enjoyed having to do the strike. I'm not a great player, but it pushed me to be a little better, and despite being downed a few times the pug group were really helpful. 

I feel a lot more of an achievement with the turtle now, I think purely because of having to go through challenging content, and not just filling up a heart by putting out fires.. 

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Some people won't do the strike... so no turtle, meaning they won't be buying skins for it... because why would they?

I mean, some people have anxiety issues (like me), and they have hard time just starting a conversation, and to try and find a group that doesn't know me is kinda terrifying (yes yes, it's just game, why u scared bla bla, we've been there), but the fact stays.

The strike itself may be a cakewalk (which many say it isn't), but i just don't see turtle a good enough mount for anything outside of EoD to TRY and get it... maybe i'll get it sometime later, but for the time being, i'm joining the NoTurtleGang.

 

Honestly, open world metas are like a blessing, i can play with a whole bunch of people, but i don't HAVE to look for them, just join the squad (sometimes you don't even need to) and boom, nobody even knows i'm there, and suddenly i'm having fun!

 

What i want to say is; they gave an alternative for a meta... why not do the save for a strike? Idk make it cost a ton or something, i'd rather spent an hour farming mobs than getting yelled at by people i don't know, thank you.

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45 minutes ago, shwar.8976 said:

I feel a lot more of an achievement with the turtle now, I think purely because of having to go through challenging content, and not just filling up a heart by putting out fires.. 

Exactly! It would be boring if they gave everything for free without having to do something for it. 

Edited by yoni.7015
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I'm just one of those play for a couple of weeks every 6 months types, and I only do solo content (world bosses aside), but if you want players like me to play strikes, a shiny reward isn't going to do it. At best it might get me to do it just until i get the reward, but I'll immediately move on afterwards.

 

A couple things that would make me more interested in strikes.

1. some sort of automated lfg. I know, I know, apparently guild wars 2 is like Destiny 2, where it's just impossible to have lfg because it's just that hard or something, but that would help a lot.

2. make them easier. Like. a LOT easier. I don't know if that means having different difficulties that are basically comparable to the solo instance except with more players, but that would give someone like me the confidence to try harder group content. If I had the expectation that I had a very good chance of succeeding in 'easy' group content, then I would be more likely to try it. I get that for a lot of vets, this IS EASY group content, but it's not for me and others like me. I don't enjoy failing multiple times in a row, especially in group content. I feel stupid, and it just makes me move on to other things that I do enjoy.

 

I know, these are probably awful things for more veteran instanced content players, but that is what it would take to get me to consider joining instanced content. I need first to have fun before I consider pushing myself into harder content. If I'm being pushed off the deep end (yes, for me it is) to get a shiny, I'm not going to enjoy it.

 

Just one very casuals opinion though.

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10 hours ago, battledrone.8315 said:

comparable is the word they chose, because you can literally compare anything

and it usually means, that they are in the same range. that wasnt the case.

Yes, but then in the guild chat they're clearly talking about the length of the collection, which is said to be faster than skyscale. And it is much shorter than the one for skyscale was. I don't see how they're not in the same range as beetle one tbh. Nothing about that means they'll need the same -but reskinned- events/items to complete, of course it will differ in one way or another and in the end there will be place for some subjectivity there.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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12 hours ago, Majic.4801 said:

"Hello. I would like some pudding, please."

"In order to have pudding, you must first have some meat."

"I'm a vegetarian. I don't want meat."

"If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!?"

"Hello, I'd like to play a tennis match"

"Ok, lets go to the tennis court"

"No, I just want to be able to say I won, I don't want to actually play"

"???"

____________________________

"Customer support? I think there's been a misunderstanding. See, I've paid for this game and when I launch it there's no >congratulations, you win!< screen. It almost looks like you want me to play it in order to successfully complete it's content? Can this be solved asap, since right now it's literally playable and that's definitely not why I bought it?"

 

Making these comparisons is always super fun, since anyone can make plenty of them ""proving"" each side to be ""right"". Please stop and just talk about what it actually is: a reward in a game you bought a content expansion for. Don't pretend it's anything else, since it's not. It's not a restaurant and it's not buying food. It's not some sort of "I paid for expansion, so everything should be unlocked for me no matter what" deal and it never was, not since the release of the game -possibly any game.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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1 hour ago, Maultrace.5761 said:

I mean, some people have anxiety issues (like me), and they have hard time just starting a conversation, and to try and find a group that doesn't know me is kinda terrifying (yes yes, it's just game, why u scared bla bla, we've been there), but the fact stays.

The strike itself may be a cakewalk (which many say it isn't), but i just don't see turtle a good enough mount for anything outside of EoD to TRY and get it... maybe i'll get it sometime later, but for the time being, i'm joining the NoTurtleGang.

The thing is, you dont have to say a word. You go to arbor, click join group in lfg, click join strike and play. And in several years since I am playing this game I have been in like 3 instances where people yelled at someone specific. And occasionally someone venting at random. I've met more players ranting in open world as in instances (there are more players in ow though).

It reads like you havent tried yet any of the group instances. I would encourage you to at least try. Go to combat log so you dont see chat if it bothers you and see what happens. 

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Did Kaineng overlook today that also had a bunch of puggies joining in. It was a group aiming for progressing the turtle collection. The commander was patient and explained the mechanics for everyone, and I learned something too.     I only joined for weekly completion of eod strikes as I already have the turtle. It took just two attempts to succeed it with 8 total newcomers.

Only one got downed on second attempt.

Edited by LucianDK.8615
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5 hours ago, yoni.7015 said:

And that’s why this whole food comparison is wrong. You can’t eat spicy food but you can do the strike mission with the help and advice the community offers you. It’s entirely up to you if you do it or if you keep complaining. 

I actually can eat spicy food (i mean, there's nothing that would physically prevent me from consuming it, nor will i actually die after doing it, i would just find the experience to be extremely unpleasant), and can do the strike mission (even without help and advice). I just find both to be equally painful to a very major degree.

I'd really want to get the turtle, but not to the point where i would be forcing myself into a content i find abhorrent. Nor i am willing to support further raidization of the game by indirectly supporting Anet's decision with either buying a run or even getting carried for free. Or staying silent when i see the game turning into a direction i would prefer it would not.

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41 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I actually can eat spicy food (i mean, there's nothing that would physically prevent me from consuming it, nor will i actually die after doing it, i would just find the experience to be extremely unpleasant), and can do the strike mission (even without help and advice). I just find both to be equally painful to a very major degree.

I'd really want to get the turtle, but not to the point where i would be forcing myself into a content i find abhorrent. Nor i am willing to support further raidization of the game by indirectly supporting Anet's decision with either buying a run or even getting carried for free. Or staying silent when i see the game turning into a direction i would prefer it would not.

 

Gift of Battle from WvW says hello. I am not a fan of WvW, but I made the effort to get enough of them for multiple legendary weapons.    Why should the game cater to a loud minority?

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1 minute ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That's the same question i asked when raids were introduced, and with every step of raidification of the game. So far, haven't heard a satisfactory answer.

Anet have answered that already. They are canning raids because its not cost effective to keep developing raid content, with so few among the player base doing them.  Strikes have been popular since the beginning is my experience.

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a lot of the arguments i'm seeing from the 'pro turtle strike' group are so extremely disingenuous it would actively be toxic to engage with them.

adding a different requirement that doesn't involve the objectively hard for casuals strike mission doesn't make it a freebie.

and this is as someone who did the strike mission and got the siege turtle. I've done it, i've completed it, i have all the masteries for the turtle completed. I'm telling you from experience that content was too hard for the majority of casual players. why is arenanet hiding the siege turtle behind strike missions when the siege turtle isn't even useful for strike missions? it doesn't make sense. it was a weird decision they made to try and herd players into strike missions and they didn't even bother tying it to the (apparently) easiest strike mission, you know the one that casual players would actually have a chance of beating.

 

arenanet heard us about the DE meta, they need to listen to us once more and add another method of getting the strike mission reward.

 

that doesn't make it a freebie and it is extremely disingenuous to suggest it is.

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14 hours ago, Majic.4801 said:

"Hello. I would like some pudding, please."

"In order to have pudding, you must first have some meat."

"I'm a vegetarian. I don't want meat."

"If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding! How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?!?"

"all in all, they are just, another brick in the wall"

/epic guitar solo

Edited by fixit.7189
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32 minutes ago, castlemanic.3198 said:

a lot of the arguments i'm seeing from the 'pro turtle strike' group are so extremely disingenuous it would actively be toxic to engage with them.

adding a different requirement that doesn't involve the objectively hard for casuals strike mission doesn't make it a freebie.

and this is as someone who did the strike mission and got the siege turtle. I've done it, i've completed it, i have all the masteries for the turtle completed. I'm telling you from experience that content was too hard for the majority of casual players. why is arenanet hiding the siege turtle behind strike missions when the siege turtle isn't even useful for strike missions? it doesn't make sense. it was a weird decision they made to try and herd players into strike missions and they didn't even bother tying it to the (apparently) easiest strike mission, you know the one that casual players would actually have a chance of beating.

 

arenanet heard us about the DE meta, they need to listen to us once more and add another method of getting the strike mission reward.

 

that doesn't make it a freebie and it is extremely disingenuous to suggest it is.

The only reason why they listened to DE meta is because many players, even those who liked the difficulty of the meta, said that it wasn’t fair to lock a start of the collection behind an event that were on a 2h timer meta that required a higher amount of organization than a single raid or strike mission. Strikes have none.

 

I mean, what did you expect ? They started developing strike missions with the icebrood saga, we knew from the beginning of the presse release that they would be a major component of EoD, with all the mystic coins rebalance. The strike doesn’t even have a timer, how much more casual can it be ? They are literally easier than T4 fractal and more accessible, because, guess what, you are not even locked behind agony resistance. 
 

No offense but there is nothing disingenuous about it and everything new about the turtle, the ability to shoot lasers out off a mount, doesn’t even require you to own the mount.

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I did the EoD to unlock the mount, 14 tries it took.

I did the strike and didn't enjoy it for a second.... I have the mount now and have the biggest advertised item of this Expansion.

Honestly though, if I knew upfront what all was locked behind a Raid encounter-like Meta and knew what more was needed to get the mount... No, I would not have bought the expansion.

I basically bought the expansion due to... I would not say false, but sertanly a degree of misleading advertisement.

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24 minutes ago, flog.3485 said:

The only reason why they listened to DE meta is because many players, even those who liked the difficulty of the meta, said that it wasn’t fair to lock a start of the collection behind an event that were on a 2h timer meta that required a higher amount of organization than a single raid or strike mission. Strikes have none.

 

I mean, what did you expect ? They started developing strike missions with the icebrood saga, we knew from the beginning of the presse release that they would be a major component of EoD, with all the mystic coins rebalance. The strike doesn’t even have a timer, how much more casual can it be ? They are literally easier than T4 fractal and more accessible, because, guess what, you are not even locked behind agony resistance. 
 

No offense but there is nothing disingenuous about it and everything new about the turtle, the ability to shoot lasers out off a mount, doesn’t even require you to own the mount.

strikes DO have a higher amount of organization and tactics than are typically used by casual players, making it a problem from the get go.

 

i expected the turtle to not be hidden behind raid like content and it was hidden behind TWO raid like pieces of content, the meta and the strike.

 

you're acting like i'm surprised that there were strikes to begin with, which is not what i was saying. i'm specifically saying that arenanets methodology surrounding the acquisition of the siege turtle (from the point of view of someone who has it aka got the egg from the meta and managed to complete the strike mission) is absurd and shouldn't have been done that way and that asking for an alternate method of acquisition to a strike isn't unfair because it's too hard for casual players.

 

never said there was anything disingenuous about the acquisition of the siege turtle, there is something disingenuous about saying that getting through an alternate method to the strike mission is a 'freebie'.

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2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

I actually can eat spicy food (i mean, there's nothing that would physically prevent me from consuming it, nor will i actually die after doing it, i would just find the experience to be extremely unpleasant), and can do the strike mission (even without help and advice). I just find both to be equally painful to a very major degree.

I'd really want to get the turtle, but not to the point where i would be forcing myself into a content i find abhorrent. Nor i am willing to support further raidization of the game by indirectly supporting Anet's decision with either buying a run or even getting carried for free. Or staying silent when i see the game turning into a direction i would prefer it would not.

If you want the reward, complete the content. If you don't want to then you don't need to. You're free to make your choices, but you're still not entitled to getting any reward in the game for choosing to play/not play limited parts of it. Nothing about that is out of place.

Since you seem to like "food comparisons" quite a lot here, lets go with: someone tells you they'll give you a cookie if you take a bite of a slightly spicy food. You say you don't want to, but then come back and repeatedly try to talk your way into still getting cookie. Sorry, but while the offer is still on the table, at that point nobody owes you a cookie.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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24 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

If you want the reward, complete the content. If you don't want to then you don't need to. You're free to make your choices, but you're still not entitled to getting any reward in the game for choosing to play/not play limited parts of it. Nothing about that is out of place.

That's a nonargument. You are trying to say that there's no issue, because the things are as they are. That's just an appeal to status quo fallacy. It has absolutely no argumentative weight whatsoever. Things being the way they are is in no way an indication that the way things are is good.

24 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Since you seem to like "food comparisons" quite a lot here, lets go with: someone tells you they'll give you a cookie if you take a bite of a slightly spicy food. You say you don't want to, but then come back and repeatedly try to talk your way into still getting cookie. Sorry, but while the offer is still on the table, at that point nobody owes you a cookie.

Well, that person trying to get me to eat something that would make me violently ill would be a complete kitten, and i probably should drop all relations with said person.

So, according to you, is Anet such a kitten, or should i still hope they do have some decency? I think the latter, but you seem to suggest otherwise.

Edited by Astralporing.1957
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18 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

That's a nonargument. You are trying to say that there's no issue, because the things are as they are. That's just an appeal to status quo fallacy. It has absolutely no argumentative weight whatsoever. Things being the way they are is in no way an indication that the way things are is good.

No, I am saying that to the people that try to bring the "it was advertised, I bought the expansion and yet I have to do x to get it, it's unfair/misleading!". The point is that there is nothing misleading or out of ordinary about it.

Quote

Well, that person trying to get me to eat something that would make me violently ill would be a complete kitten, and i probably should drop all relations with said person.

Nobody is forcing anything down your throat, you have an offer, you declined it, that's your choice. Pretending that since you've been offered to "get x for doing y", now you deserve the cookie makes no sense and that's what is happening here.

Quote

So, according to you, is Anet such a kitten, or should i still hope they do have some decency? I think the latter, but you seem to suggest otherwise.

"do what I want you to do or you're a kitten with no decency", talk about fallacies. Someone not giving you a cookie now doesn't make them lacking decency.

Setting the comparisons aside: you've bought a content expansion for a game. Completing x content for y reward being worth it or not is subjective. You've made a decision to not go for it, you're free to make it and yet nobody owes you that reward anyways. You might dislike it and pretend it makes devs "have no decency" or whatever, but it's not true and the current state is easly within the reasonable expectation to have from the reward systems in games.

Edited by Sobx.1758
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Got my Turtle after the only Strike mission I will ever do.

 

That was just rainbow unicorn vomit. A rooftop rave in heavy fog has more visibility. 

 

It's weird that Fishing, Skiff, and Arborstone are just given to you, but Turtle required a hard Meta (I bought the egg from the vendor), a TON of food, Fishing, 3 random events, a different Meta, a strike, 25 unidentified dyes (lol?), and buying junk from a couple heart vendors.

 

Allow people to buy out the Strike part the same way they buy the egg.

 

If I could go back in time, I'd slap myself for thinking that doing all this for the mount was a good idea.

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after doing story on one account, till arborstone on other 2 I got an egg in the meta by luck.

Then I hit concrete with the strike mission on main account.

 

After reading the total silence from the side of anet ( as usual ) I have put EoD in the freezer for now.

 

Back to playing core game which I liked

I planned to take a few things from the new DLC like bot-trinket and fishing ( rest are filler masteries )

 

But having 71+35+15 characters makes the bot uselessly impractiacal to equip

( you need a T6 bot on EVERY toon to use the 2 chip slots !!! )

fishing is nice..for a week or so

and skimmer beats skiff

 

So in practice: I play old Tyria again and even stopped playing mechanist after a few maps.

 

 

Which proofs GW2 vanilla is good enough

I will see if one day they drop that forced labor strike mission, if not. EoD goes where HoT went: long term storage for years

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