Morrighan.2758 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said: But it is not "at the expense of the other players". For example as far as I remember, HoT ow was harder than the EoD (or maybe even similar, but it was still accentuated more by the core->HoT transition, when compared to HoT/PoF->EoD transition). HoT also introduced raids, which were harder than the current strikes. If you've enjoyed HoT, then I don't understand the reasoning before the claim that suddenly this game is no longer for you or it's somehow "too hard now", when apparently previous expansions were not. The "usual" content is still in the game and it was still added with EoD expansion. Because i had no eye problems back then and was actually starting to learn to play the harder content . Now i have had the choice taken away from me because i cannot do larger group content for longer periods of time that require me to learn skills by practicing them in group where players learn at a a different speed , because it takes longer , so i do not enjoy the content , cause my eyes hurt after a while , the rest of the game is not as specific , and i do not let anyone down , now i have to let people down if it goes on longer , or i do not do the content , and no i do not want to carried , that would be the deepest insult to me ever , i wanted to learn but its impossible in group content , not everyone has the level of understanding that this forum does , and to get that understanding i have to explain , and hope people do not resent me cause i have made them fail , which has been happening since all this drama started the media community got super nasty and it is ruining everything. Dont misunderstand me , i do accept my limitations , i know what they are but realize that not all casuals want everything for free , people have a right to be on that map even if they are not doing the meta , and people should not get upset about that , but rather find another solution, i think sometimes that instanced would have been some type of start to a solution , but im not entirely convinced, i lean more towards the company that has made this choice , that is going to omit a lot of people , some of which have supported this game a long time , some of which love this game and hate what it has done to the community and i am one of them , and as stated above it not always what you assume over a mount , its for the love of this game. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Morrighan.2758 said: Because i had no eye problems back then and was actually starting to learn to play the harder content . Now i have had the choice taken away from me because i cannot do larger group content for longer periods of time that require me to learn skills by practicing them in group where players learn at a a different speed , because it takes longer , so i do not enjoy the content , cause my eyes hurt after a while , the rest of the game is not as specific , and i do not let anyone down , now i have to let people down if it goes on longer , or i do not do the content , and no i do not want to carried , that would be the deepest insult to me ever , i wanted to learn but its impossible in group content , not everyone has the level of understanding that this forum does , and to get that understanding i have to explain , and hope people do not resent me cause i have made them fail , which has been happening since all this drama started the media community got super nasty and it is ruining everything. Dont misunderstand me , i do accept my limitations , i know what they are but realize that not all casuals want everything for free , people have a right to be on that map even if they are not doing the meta , and people should not get upset about that , but rather find another solution, i think sometimes that instanced would have been some type of start to a solution , but im not entirely convinced, i lean more towards the company that has made this choice , that is going to omit a lot of people , some of which have supported this game a long time , some of which love this game and hate what it has done to the community and i am one of them , and as stated above it not always what you assume over a mount , its for the love of this game. Ok, but then don't pretend that it's the game somehow changing forcing players out/away and leaving no place for you, since it's not really true, right? It has as much place as it had for years. Probably more, since still... more content, even not counting the harder parts of it. There's no need to pretend the game doesn't explain mechanics, when it implemented better explanations (or new ones, like for breakbar) than we had in core/hot/pof. Similarly there's no need to pretend that you can't play the game anymore "because harder also content exists", since it was true at least since HoT (raids) and probably straight up since the core (dungeons). To make it absolutely clear, in case it somehow still isn't: I'm not trying to argue against someone struggling with certain limited content due to whatever unfortunate circumstance. What I'm commenting on here is -what seems to me- an effort to put a false narrative, which I've tried to specifically respond to, including some explanations how it is what previous expansions also provided. At no point was I trying to push you into whatever content you can't or don't want to play. The point is quite the opposite: you can keep playing the rest of the content, including the one introduced in eod, since "last meta" and "strike missions" are just a small part of it. I didn't make any assumptions that it's about mount for you. You've said it's not about the mount right in the first post I've responded to and I didn't try to somehow convince you it's about mount, since I have no reason to. Instead I said: if it's not about mount, then I don't see why you can't play the game avoiding a small % of the content you can't or don't want to do. There's still ow content like there always was and its difficulty doesn't seem to be higher? Edited March 21, 2022 by Sobx.1758 1 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrighan.2758 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: Ok, but then don't pretend that it's the game somehow changing forcing players out/away and leaving no place for you, since it's not really true, right? It has as much place as it had for years. Probably more, since still... more content, even not counting the harder parts of it. This is the last i will respond , it is ANET they have done this, they made the choices , discussed , not me , my condition is what it is , but they will end up with less support as in people buying and playing the game , because the minority are the competitive players , unless ANET gets good enough to hold competitive players interest , which is a very long time off , if they do not extend in enabling learning in this game from the game , competitive players cannot take on this burden and teach everyone, the game has to do it , but that does not excuse , that my equity because i have purchased the game has diminished , ANET made there decisions this is fact. 4 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) The game was never 100% easy ow content -most certainly not since HoT. It's not something that EoD changed. Edited March 21, 2022 by Sobx.1758 2 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 22 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said: Ok, but then don't pretend that it's the game somehow changing forcing players out/away and leaving no place for you, since it's not really true, right? It has as much place as it had for years. Probably more, since still... more content, even not counting the harder parts of it. There's no need to pretend the game doesn't explain mechanics, when it implemented better explanations (or new ones, like for breakbar) than we had in core/hot/pof. Similarly there's no need to pretend that you can't play the game anymore "because harder also content exists", since it was true at least since HoT (raids) and probably straight up since the core (dungeons). To make it absolutely clear, in case it somehow still isn't: I'm not trying to argue against someone struggling with certain limited content due to whatever unfortunate circumstance. What I'm commenting on here is -what seems to me- an effort to put a false narrative, which I've tried to specifically respond to, including some explanations how it is what previous expansions also provided. At no point was I trying to push you into whatever content you can't or don't want to play. The point is quite the opposite: you can keep playing the rest of the content, including the one introduced in eod, since "last meta" and "strike missions" are just a small part of it. I didn't make any assumptions that it's about mount for you. You've said it's not about the mount right in the first post I've responded to and I didn't try to somehow convince you it's about mount, since I have no reason to. Instead I said: if it's not about mount, then I don't see why you can't play the game avoiding a small % of the content you can't or don't want to do. There's still ow content like there always was and its difficulty doesn't seem to be higher? The game is changing and forcing some players out though. Be realistic, the gating of stats is either going to further separate the game modes like WvW or a lot those players along with others who just can't get finish those instance enough or spend an hour organizing on discord will just stop playing. If it's no the stats from this expansion, it will be one or two other things down the line since this is the direction Anet is taking. 9 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) 4 minutes ago, kash.9213 said: The game is changing and forcing some players out though. Be realistic, the gating of stats is either going to further separate the game modes like WvW or a lot those players along with others who just can't get finish those instance enough or spend an hour organizing on discord will just stop playing. If it's no the stats from this expansion, it will be one or two other things down the line since this is the direction Anet is taking. The stats were already "gated behind new content" before. The WvW stats -in terms of raw power- were already "gated" behind getting ascended gear. Absolutely no "organizing on discord" (even moreso "for hours") is needed. Not sure where any of that came from. I am not using discord, I'm not playing in statics nor am I in some raiding/SM/hardcore guilds. Lfg is all I do in regards of that content. Edited March 21, 2022 by Sobx.1758 1 3 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Just now, Sobx.1758 said: The stats were already "gated behind new content" before. The WvW stats were already "gated" behind getting ascended gear. I can craft ascended gear, or get it by playing primarily in my game mode. If raid and strike players had to do a bunch of stuff in WvW for the new stats they'd have left the game already after a meltdown on the forums. 5 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 (edited) 3 minutes ago, kash.9213 said: I can craft ascended gear, or get it by playing primarily in my game mode. If raid and strike players had to do a bunch of stuff in WvW for the new stats they'd have left the game already after a meltdown on the forums. Yeah, but "crafting asscended gear playing primarily your mode" will take vastly more time than getting the stat combination from the new expansion. I don't know what else you want to hear. If you think WvW should introduce pvp amulets or something, then I don't think this is the place to push for it. Again: this is not new. Edited March 21, 2022 by Sobx.1758 1 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Sobx.1758 said: Yeah, but "crafting asscended gear playing primarily your mode" will take vastly more time than getting the stat combination from the new expansion. I don't know what else you want to hear. If you think WvW should introduce pvp amulets or something, then I don't think this is the place to push for it. Again: this is not new. The new stats and the new mount are both gated behind a pve instance and some behind an open world meta that most people don't want to play and many won't be able to finish. That's new. I'll push for WvW stuff here since that entire mode gets ignored and I'm forced to do these instances anyway. 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson.4036 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 If they end up putting the turtles into WvW, as they said they might, it’d be a pretty kitten move not to also give a WvW reward track to unlock them. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farohna.6247 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 So I finally got to this step of the collection. I want the turtle, so I'll do the strike. Had two fails that were good efforts and the third was a success. All pugs, nice groups, several in each group who had watched the videos for the mechanics but had never been in a strike (myself included). It was actually quite fun, and I prefer open world content. Now for the stupid Jade Maw...fix that scaling Anet, yuck. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Monarch.6058 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) Just delete this post, this whole thread is just tragic.. Edited March 22, 2022 by Tungsten Monarch.6058 personal reasons 1 2 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 11 hours ago, LucianDK.8615 said: Would it really have made a difference if Dragons End did not exist as an open world zone, compared to instanced like Dragonstorm? Yes. Although you'd still have issues with the turtle being locked beyond instanced content of course. And i assume that the elite spec collection achieves would not require the instance either. 11 hours ago, LucianDK.8615 said: Some people here seems quite allergic to any instanced content. It's not about being allergic to instanced content. It's about not wanting to mix up completely different modes. I play OW and instanced content both, but i still do not want to see instanced content in OW. I also play both PvE, and, occasionally, WvW, and i still would not want any form of PvP brought into OW either. 11 hours ago, LucianDK.8615 said: Imho that would have led to even more feelings of exclusion with the difficulty level, and that I am sure the QQ would have been even louder. That would completely depend on what would be locked behind that instance. If it did not lock anything OW players would consider major, but would just give good rewards, most players would not care. They'd simply ignore it. 10 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flog.3485 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 17 hours ago, castlemanic.3198 said: calling players toxic for asking to not do a strike mission for what is open world content is really very weird of you. you literally could have just left it at 'we'll agree to disagree' but you decided to call people toxic for not wanting to do a strike mission to earn an open world reward that has nothing to do with strike missions. very strange. your point about dps being barely relevant in this game is absolutely false when it comes to 10 man content like strike missions or raids. top tier players can do 10x the damage of casual solo oriented players which is a HUGE difference that can absolutely affect the success or failure of something like a strike mission. honestly it's arenanets fault for having so many different stat combinations that can easily vary the dps by such a significant margin. solutions to this could be discussed in another thread, i won't go into it here. to your final point, there is no dissonance between those stances. Toxic might not have been the right word for it, I’ll give you that. English is not my first language. More like irrelevantly obnoxious, still not sure about the appropriate word. But of course, it is only an opinion, not saying they are actually are. I stand with what I said about DPS. High amount of DPS will matter only if you are speed running the instances, which majority of players are not interested in doing in like any game whatsoever. And the fact is that in the case of this particular strike, you have also no timer. Unlike DE meta. Your point about all the different stat combos doesn’t make sense to me. Like everything else in the game, unless you are trying to solo something ou you are a really invested player who tests all the different stats for fun, it won’t matter. It is really all about the boons imo because the boons will carry a person which has no interest in practicing a DPS rotation. Apart from that, yeah there is mechanics. Like open world content. And many of these mechanics that you have seen in open world content recently and in the past come from instanced content like raids and fractals, since like the start of season 3. Is it too much to ask for ? I have said my piece, I just hope Anet won’t nerf the requirement further. 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flog.3485 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 14 hours ago, kash.9213 said: I'm not toxic for wanting the new Ritualist stat trinkets for my World vs World build without having to bang my head against the wall organizing and dealing with actual toxic people. I'd still play the rest of the expansion and probably even jump in a Strike or two some day but gating new stats in a game that used to flex about horizontal progression behind a pve instance is a big kitten you to a lot of players and a prime example of promoting toxicity. Anet can keep their "siege" turtle that's not even available in the game mode that's about siege warfare and I'll put in the time for skins and collections, but gating the stats is wrong and your toxic for giving other players kitten for not wanting to deal with that noise. Yeah I agree with you. Having stat combos locked behind PvE is bad and I didn’t know about that. They should fix that. 1 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibson.4036 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 There should be an avenue to achieve things that are usable in a game mode by playing that game mode. 10 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flog.3485 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 18 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said: Are these the same people? I thought it was cool that they were trying to on-ramp players into harder endgame content by creating more stepping stones to get there. But I was never interested in it, and wasn't planning on using their stepping stones. I just thought it was a great idea for people who wanted to make that transition but might be having difficulty. At the same time I think it's a bad idea to gate open world features behind instanced content where you can't even use those features. Especially since the game has such a long track record of mostly just putting cosmetics behind instanced content, and making the expansion features easy to get and useful throughout. I'm only one person. Maybe there is someone out there who desperately wanted easier instanced content to play but is now complaining that features are locked behind it. But most of the people who I've seen saying they don't like this choice are people who aren't interested in instanced content at all. Well the problem with locking only skins behind instanced content is that most players will just ignore the content. If they took the time to develop instanced endgame content for a major release then they have to make sure that at least a majority of players try it at least once. And earning a mount like this is the best way to do it. But even then ? Is this really that bad ? I don’t have the turtle and yet I was still able to join a random squad and play with the turtle. That is where the friendly community aspect of the game that most people praise in general should play in. It is also really isn’t like the griffon or the beetle or the core mount from PoF. You are not locked out of content because you don’t own one, there is no races that can reward you with skins or rare expensive minis, that specifically ask you to summon a turtle. From a casual standpoint, I personally see no issue because mounts were praised for their movement abilities, and in that department everything has been covered. Nobody in their right mind would want to traverse all EoD maps with a turtle. It really is an endgame feature and Anet wants to develop the endgame that has been severely lacking for many years. Personally I have always thought that it was damaging the game to have too many stuff too easily accessible in open world and the lack of bridges between instanced endgame and open world even more so. So once again, for a highly optional mount, I see no issue. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoni.7015 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said: There should be an avenue to achieve things that are usable in a game mode by playing that game mode. It’s a PvE mount, you don’t have to do PvP or WvW to get it. There are three game modes: PvE, PvP and WvW. Open World is part of PvE. Edited March 22, 2022 by yoni.7015 2 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dami.5046 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) I think the people saying the strike is fine for the mount are the same ones that couldn't press F to gather a few mats for the skyscale and Anet caved and gave them different ways to get their stacks. It is unfair to promote a mount as a main feature only to find you won't be able to complete it. It is unfair to then diss said people by saying everything is fine when for some it isn't. why shouldn't there be multiply ways to get something? There was multiple ways to get things for the skyscale and that was ok? Edited March 22, 2022 by Dami.5046 10 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 1 hour ago, flog.3485 said: Well the problem with locking only skins behind instanced content is that most players will just ignore the content. That's not a problem. If players do not like a specific type of content to the degree they'd rather ignore and avoid it, trying to make them change their mind rarely achieves anything positive. Most of the time all it achieves is a temporary (and only temporary) spike in "popularity" of such pushed content (which may lead devs to falsely believe people actually like it, when it is not really the case), and a longterm increase in players' discontent (coupled with equally longterm decrease in said players' enjoyment of the game). 1 hour ago, flog.3485 said: If they took the time to develop instanced endgame content for a major release then they have to make sure that at least a majority of players try it at least once. And earning a mount like this is the best way to do it. No. It's the other way around - if they want their content to be played by a significant number of players, they should have designed it wich such a target group in mind. And if they took the time to develop a content that aims for a small minority of players' population, then they should have been well expecting that only a fraction of the players population would ever want to see it. It might be a little different in case of something completely new, when they can't estimate the potential popularity yet, but high-end content is nothing new in GW2, and they should already know what the population in general thinks about it. 1 hour ago, flog.3485 said: But even then ? Is this really that bad ? Yes. because it shows that devs have either no understanding of their own playerbase, or do not care about what their players like and dislike. Or both. 1 hour ago, flog.3485 said: I don’t have the turtle and yet I was still able to join a random squad and play with the turtle. That is where the friendly community aspect of the game that most people praise in general should play in. "friendly community aspect" is not something that should be used to justify game issues caused by developers' lack of regard for that very community. 1 hour ago, flog.3485 said: It really is an endgame feature and Anet wants to develop the endgame that has been severely lacking for many years. It has been severely lacking, because Anet's idea for endgame is something a huge majority of this game's players will never be interested in. They have long forgotten their old motto of "the whole game is the endgame". 1 hour ago, flog.3485 said: Personally I have always thought that it was damaging the game to have too many stuff too easily accessible in open world and the lack of bridges between instanced endgame and open world even more so. The lack of bridges is not an issue. It never was. Players could always get across the gap - if only they were willing to do so, that is. In the end, it doesn't matter how many bridges you build, if the players just don't like what's on their other side. 9 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tails.9372 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 1 hour ago, flog.3485 said: If they took the time to develop instanced endgame content for a major release then they have to make sure that at least a majority of players try it at least once. This has nothing to do with the content being instanced but is entirely an issue of said content being designed specifically for people who want to challenge themselves in more demanding content which the average player does not. If the turtle component would have required the story mission instead of the SM then nobody would have said anything in spite of that also being "instanced content". If they wanted to make non story "instanced endgame content" with the goal of the average player engaging with it then they should have designed the content to cater to the preferences of said player group. 5 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterson.5172 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 hard content: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/qrk0hl/guild_wars_2_quarterly_earnings_up_in_2021/ easy content: https://www.shacknews.com/article/128392/how-much-money-does-candy-crush-make just saying 3 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashantara.8731 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 (edited) On 3/11/2022 at 11:53 PM, Sobx.1758 said: Yes, it's a report that's saying: Someone understood the situation, is fine with it and moved on still enjoying the game, but I've decided to "be bothered on their behalf". You're not exactly sharing your perspective here, you're trying to speak for someone, despite that person moving on and playing what they want anyways. It is what it is. And you've said you wish she'd wait with the purchase -but I wonder why exactly? She enjoys the espec she plays anyways and the ow zones look good, there's plenty to do in the expansion. Does she regret the purchase? Do you regret her purchase? Or what was the point of mentioning that? I'm just curious. Trying to "correct" people's "perspectives" again, I see, and telling them how they are supposed to think, feel, etc. Learn to accept people's feelings, thoughts and opinions. You can share yours, but stop feeling entitled to be the authority on other people's inner lives. Edited March 22, 2022 by Ashantara.8731 5 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 On 3/19/2022 at 12:26 PM, Yanosh.2631 said: As an average casual player I can confirm it's not very hard. Did it on first try. 2 ppl died on 1st phase, 2 more on second and 2 (including me) in the last phase. I died with 5% to go. So yea, it's doable. Problem is I didn't get the item for the turtle collection. I got some rewards (even an ascended long bow), some achievement, a mastery point I think, but no turtle collection item, lol. Now I have to force myself to do it again. Did you have the turtle collection unlocked already? Cause if so it's probably a bug that you didn't get the item and contact support 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted March 22, 2022 Share Posted March 22, 2022 56 minutes ago, yann.1946 said: Did you have the turtle collection unlocked already? Cause if so it's probably a bug that you didn't get the item and contact support The droprate for the collection is apparently not 100%. There are people that had to try several times to get theirs. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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