Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Bladesworn: The Good, The Bad, And How To Fix


CalmTheStorm.2364

Recommended Posts

After playing around with Bladesworn for the past 2 weeks, I’ve come to a couple of conclusions that I wanted to share as food for discussion.  [Note: I’m focusing primarily on how BS plays in PvP/WvW for the purposes of this post.]

 

1.) BS isn’t as bad as I feared it would be.  Don’t get me wrong, I think it still needs a lot of work (see below), but many of the gunsaber and DT skills are pretty fun to play with.  The foundation for a solid e-spec is there.

 

2.) BS, in its current form, is completely buoyed by two abusive mechanics: insane healing from Might Makes Right and Vigorous shouts, and an unblockable, unblindable CC in all forms of DT thanks to Unyielding Dragon.  If you took either or both of these things away, BS would be completely unplayable in competitive.

 

The end result is that there is pretty much one way to play BS: with Strength and Tactics trait lines and with Unyielding Dragon selected.  Furthermore, most/all of your utility slots are dedicated to shouts—which is kinda silly, because that means there is no space for the Armament utilities—you know, the ones that are *supposed* to be good on BS and facilitate its playstyle. Lastly, the damage on Gunsaber skills (especially blooming fire) is pretty underwhelming, and you have lost your F1 bursts on your other weapon set, so the most significant source of damage you can provide is from your DT skills.  This reduces BS to a one-trick pony trying to kite around and stay alive until DT comes off CD to attempt another Dragon slash.

 

I submit that BS will not be in a healthy place until a) it can bring more offense to the table besides DT, b) it doesn’t rely on abusing MMR and vigorous shouts to stay alive (which will probably get one or both nerfed into the ground and thus ruin them for the rest of the profession), and c) has greater build diversity.  To these ends, I suggest the following changes.

 

Changes to Dragon Trigger (and related traits):

The words “unblockable,” “unblindable,” and “CC” shouldn’t be allowed in the same sentence let alone the same Grand Master trait.  Unfortunately, some combination of these things is necessary for BS to function at all in competitive modes. But the current iteration makes it fairly annoying and toxic to play against, since there is little you can do when facing a BS in DT except get out of range/LOS and have your finger on the dodge key and hope your reflexes (and ping) are good enough.  The following suggestions aim to make DT strong but still counter-playable and to reduce reliance on Unyielding Dragon.

 

1.)  Dragonscale Defense: Gain stability (3s) and Resistance (3s) when entering DT (No CD). 
This makes “blind immunity” baseline on DT skills.  It also prevents immobilize from shutting down DS-Boost and weakness from ruining such an important part of your offense.  In exchange, Resistance is strippable/corruptible, so it would be possible for at least some builds to still shut down BS in DT.

 

2.) DS-Force: make this unblockable at baseline.  Also, it should have its damage increased since it is decidedly harder to land.  Minimum damage on par with Arcing slice (when target is ABOVE 50% health) and Max dmg on par with Arc Divider would probably be appropriate. Note: this is NOT a CC.

 

3.) DS-Boost: Same as it is now but inflicts 1.5s Daze at baseline.  Daze duration does NOT scale with ammo; only damage does. 

This allows for a fairly meaningful CC even at 1 charge.  However, it is not a stun and it is blockable so there is both counterplay available and ability to recover (e.g. move or dodge) even if you get hit.

 

4.) DS-Reach: Same as it is now but Dazes for 1s and Immobilizes for 2s as baseline effects. 

This gains some tactical utility for locking down fleeing foes or holding them still for artillery slash or other projectiles.  Note: this is NOT unblockable.

 

Changes to Grand Master Traits:

The underlying philosophy behind these changes is that DT should build up enduring effects that extend beyond the use of DT.  This even fits the anime theme, as your character is having a Dragon Ball-Z-esque “power up” session while in DT.  You can even scream at your computer screen while he’s charging.  Try it; it’s cathartic. The aim here is to make BS less dependent on the DT skills themselves but to use DT to “power up” other aspects of offense or defense.

 

1.) Immortal Dragon: Gain Protection (1/2s) and Barrier (250 hp) per each charged cartridge gained [i.e., 5s protection and 2500 barrier total for a full charge].  Heal for 20% of DS’s damage. 

I recommend increasing the % healing since you won’t be getting the 100k DS in PvP/WvW, so 8% healing just isn’t sufficient to make it worthwhile.

 

2.) Unyielding Dragon: Gain Might (1 stack for 6s) and a stackable damage modifier (+ 1.5% for 15s--max 10 stacks) for each charged cartridge gained. [Thus 10 might and +15% damage modifier for a full charge].

The idea here is promote bursty offense while not enabling too much abuse of MMR. 

 

3.) Daring Dragon: May renter DT immediately if you can pay the flow cost (10).  Max cartridge charges limited to 5.  Gain quickness (3/4s) for each cartridge gained. 

 

Changes to Gunsaber:

Overall, the damage and utility are just too low on this weapon, but it has a lot of good things going for it.  A few tweaks:

 

1.) Blooming Fire: double the damage of the first explosion; keep the secondary explosions the same.  This enables a higher burst damage and doesn’t rely on 4 separate hits to all crit in order to get decent damage output.  Increasing the range to 180 would be nice too.

 

2.) Cyclone Trigger: Make this a full block for 1.5s.  This would now be a powerful defensive skill and would even work with Shield Master in Defense.

 

3.) Break Step: Removes immobile in addition to its current effects.  Increasing range to 600 would be really nice, too. 

You’ve done a good job on creating a version of Warrior that does not absolutely require Discipline to function, but BS is still overly susceptible to immobilize.  It needs some tools to be able to deal with it.

 

Changes to Traits:

1.) Unseen Sword [change name to “Lock ‘N Load”?]:  Gain flow (5s) when you use an ammo skill (CD 5s).  Gunsaber skills gain 20% reduced recharge.

Unseen Sword is pretty underwhelming.  Moreover, we need ways to improve Gunsaber skills since we are locked into taking it and it plays such a large part of our offense.

 

2.) Lush Forest: Gain Alacrity (1.5s) when you use an ammo skill

 

3.) Fierce as Fire: Explosions grant Might (1 stack for 6s) and inflict Vulnerability (1 stack for 6s)

Enables high might generation but distributes it between FAF and Unyielding Dragon.  Also is a way to make multi-explosion skills like Blooming Fire and Dragon’s Roar to be more impactful.

 

Changes to Utilities:

Not gonna lie; BS’s utilities are pretty awful right now.  They need some major love.  A few ideas:

 

1.) Flow Stabilizer: Grants protection (4s) instead of Fury.  Same flow gain.

We need ways to promote damage reduction/surivability on BS that isn’t just spamming shouts or abusing MMR.

 

2.) Tactical Reload:  Restores ALL ammo charges for Gunsaber and Pistol skills ONLY.  40s CD.

Again, the goal is to discourage heal spam via shouts while at the same time promoting offensive play.

 

3.) Dragonspike Mine: Reduce CD to 25s.  Allow it to remove immobile.

Compare this to Ranger’s Lightning Reflexes which does almost the same thing but has a base CD of 30s, grants vigor for 10s, and can be traited to reduce CD to 24s while cleansing 2 conditions AND granting Fury. 

 

4.) Electric fence/Bullet-proof barrier:  These are useless.  If they were combined into a single skill that functioned like an uncrossable barrier like Line of Warding that also blocked projectiles, it would be amazing, at least in certain niche roles. 

 

I’m sure there’s more that could be said, but I’m out of brain power for now.  Thanks for reading!

Edited by CalmTheStorm.2364
  • Like 4
  • Thanks 3
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This would make the spec more fun and better (in the sense of feeling more complete, it kinda feels like something is missing when I play it) in competitive I think.

Not sure how I feel about quickness on daring dragon though. Dragon Trigger isn’t affected by quick and the point of daring dragon is to combo slashes together. Though it would be better than current Daring dragon regardless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, oscuro.9720 said:

This would make the spec more fun and better (in the sense of feeling more complete, it kinda feels like something is missing when I play it) in competitive I think.

Not sure how I feel about quickness on daring dragon though. Dragon Trigger isn’t affected by quick and the point of daring dragon is to combo slashes together. Though it would be better than current Daring dragon regardless.

I definitely welcome other suggestions! I broadly thought of the three lines (top/mid/bot) of the trait tree as defense, offense, and speed (or Tanksworn, Burstsworn, and Cracksworn), so quickness made sense to me. I realize that quickeness doesn't (and shouldn't) affect DT charging times, but the idea is that you'd still have excess quickness even after the full charge (about 2s of it). Thus, you could use DS and follow up with a combo right afterwards more effectively.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since there is no utility for BsW to offer and it's selfish in the worst way possible, just make BB an AoE Shield around the warrior of 180 radius blocking inc projectiles and crippling enemies within, crippled enemies getting immob'd and give us a proper port utility for warrior who deserves it even with flicker step. A non-stunbreak 1000 range port like Flash from ele called "Teleport" simple but effective. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wish I wasn't crippled by disdain for this but I will try my best to add thoughts.

First and foremost, allowing use of dragon trigger outside of gunsaber mode was -very, very, VERY good- That design change went a long way to helping the spec feel like it might be able to do something competitively if a myriad of other things are also addressed. I am objectively happy with specifically that decision. 

Now critique. 

9 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

2.) BS, in its current form, is completely buoyed by two abusive mechanics: insane healing from Might Makes Right and Vigorous shouts, and an unblockable, unblindable CC in all forms of DT thanks to Unyielding Dragon.  If you took either or both of these things away, BS would be completely unplayable in competitive.

Yes. Now, on top of that recall that:

> Anet specifically modified Lush Forest to dissuade spammy play

> Shouts have been repeatedly nerfed in core to force Spellbreakers to not play this way

and it's just a matter of time before someone upset that their bunker damage build can't push a bladesworn off node starts a whine wave that gets this entire thing dumpstered. 

Quote

Changes to Dragon Trigger (and related traits):

The words “unblockable,” “unblindable,” and “CC” shouldn’t be allowed in the same sentence let alone the same Grand Master trait.  Unfortunately, some combination of these things is necessary for BS to function at all in competitive modes. But the current iteration makes it fairly annoying and toxic to play against, since there is little you can do when facing a BS in DT except get out of range/LOS and have your finger on the dodge key and hope your reflexes (and ping) are good enough.  The following suggestions aim to make DT strong but still counter-playable and to reduce reliance on Unyielding Dragon.

 

1.)  Dragonscale Defense: Gain stability (3s) and Resistance (3s) when entering DT (No CD). 
This makes “blind immunity” baseline on DT skills.  It also prevents immobilize from shutting down DS-Boost and weakness from ruining such an important part of your offense.  In exchange, Resistance is strippable/corruptible, so it would be possible for at least some builds to still shut down BS in DT.

 

2.) DS-Force: make this unblockable at baseline.  Also, it should have its damage increased since it is decidedly harder to land.  Minimum damage on par with Arcing slice (when target is ABOVE 50% health) and Max dmg on par with Arc Divider would probably be appropriate. Note: this is NOT a CC.

 

3.) DS-Boost: Same as it is now but inflicts 1.5s Daze at baseline.  Daze duration does NOT scale with ammo; only damage does. 

This allows for a fairly meaningful CC even at 1 charge.  However, it is not a stun and it is blockable so there is both counterplay available and ability to recover (e.g. move or dodge) even if you get hit.

 

4.) DS-Reach: Same as it is now but Dazes for 1s and Immobilizes for 2s as baseline effects. 

This gains some tactical utility for locking down fleeing foes or holding them still for artillery slash or other projectiles.  Note: this is NOT unblockable.

 

1.) Is fine.

2, 3, 4 don't take into account the battle scenarios for which these skills would see use. In any scenario vs anything with a block, the opponent moving out of range of (1) every 10 seconds will further limit the impact misreading the bladesworn will essentially cripple the bladesworn and make them exploitable. Consider this scenario.

Bladesworn (A) is fighting Ranger (B), who has a fresh GS and is currently holding LB.

(A), after landing a cc that causes (B) to use Lightning Reflexes, charges dragon trigger.
(B), in this scenario, now has advantage state because:

1.) they are out of range of Force

2.) the opponent is wasting Flow for one of two options that are both blockable and animation lock upon use

There's no fear or any need to be prudent about what option they pick. The ranger can swap to GS in this scenario and wait until any animation plays, upon which they press 4. This scenario is the same for anything that can put out aegis or on demand blocks, which includes virtuoso and its current block heavy iterations.

As bloated as (unevadable, unblockable, unblindable) is in a GM, I think we should take that as concession and acknowledgement that it will be incredibly difficult to hit these on sentient players and not bend ourselves out of shape trying to make the thing feel fair on paper, cause even with all of that BS is still grueling to play off of paper. 

Quote

Changes to Grand Master Traits:

The underlying philosophy behind these changes is that DT should build up enduring effects that extend beyond the use of DT.  This even fits the anime theme, as your character is having a Dragon Ball-Z-esque “power up” session while in DT.  You can even scream at your computer screen while he’s charging.  Try it; it’s cathartic. The aim here is to make BS less dependent on the DT skills themselves but to use DT to “power up” other aspects of offense or defense.

It ain't DBZ. It's the stereotypical  "Samurai concentrates before cutting a building in two" trope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jViVhHwTXs8

That aside:

Quote

1.) Immortal Dragon: Gain Protection (1/2s) and Barrier (250 hp) per each charged cartridge gained [i.e., 5s protection and 2500 barrier total for a full charge].  Heal for 20% of DS’s damage. 

I like the addition of barrier here. 

Quote

2.) Unyielding Dragon: Gain Might (1 stack for 6s) and a stackable damage modifier (+ 1.5% for 15s--max 10 stacks) for each charged cartridge gained. [Thus 10 might and +15% damage modifier for a full charge].

mmm. Thoughts below on that.

Quote

3.) Daring Dragon: May renter DT immediately if you can pay the flow cost (10).  Max cartridge charges limited to 5.  Gain quickness (3/4s) for each cartridge gained. 

That's a nice idea. 

I'd like to mention that, while the core of these premises is nice, It is probably not going to be feasible in any actual pvp scenario to sit in DT for the entire charge duration. When you consider that a bladesworn under any kind of combat stress will not be capping out these charges, handing them bonuses like 10 might or a bit of barrier seems a bit paltry to me. These are grandmasters, Perhaps you would want to suggest hybrid effects, where hitting an opponent gives you something, and entering the skill at all gives you something, so at any given point you are at least getting half of your grandmaster trait used, like you proposed in 1.) 
 

Quote

1.) Blooming Fire: double the damage of the first explosion; keep the secondary explosions the same.  This enables a higher burst damage and doesn’t rely on 4 separate hits to all crit in order to get decent damage output.  Increasing the range to 180 would be nice too.

This should also activate in half a second. there's no reason for it to activate in 3/4s a second when artillery slash is ranged, activates faster, and does more damage right now. 
 

Quote

2.) Cyclone Trigger: Make this a full block for 1.5s.  This would now be a powerful defensive skill and would even work with Shield Master in Defense.

Good idea. Have you heard it's a full evade underwater? 

Quote

3.) Break Step: Removes immobile in addition to its current effects.  Increasing range to 600 would be really nice, too. 

Mandatory, really.

Quote

Changes to Traits:

1.) Unseen Sword [change name to “Lock ‘N Load”?]:  Gain flow (5s) when you use an ammo skill (CD 5s).  Gunsaber skills gain 20% reduced recharge.e.

2.) Lush Forest: Gain Alacrity (1.5s) when you use an ammo skill

3.) Fierce as Fire: Explosions grant Might (1 stack for 6s) and inflict Vulnerability (1 stack for 6s)

Good ideas. No ICD on 2. A word on 3:

BS doesn't get that many explosions to work with. Maybe that could be looked at so there's more synergy with explosions.

Quote

1.) Flow Stabilizer: Grants protection (4s) instead of Fury.  Same flow gain.

We need ways to promote damage reduction/surivability on BS that isn’t just spamming shouts or abusing MMR.

 

2.) Tactical Reload:  Restores ALL ammo charges for Gunsaber and Pistol skills ONLY.  40s CD.

Again, the goal is to discourage heal spam via shouts while at the same time promoting offensive play.

 

3.) Dragonspike Mine: Reduce CD to 25s.  Allow it to remove immobile.

Compare this to Ranger’s Lightning Reflexes which does almost the same thing but has a base CD of 30s, grants vigor for 10s, and can be traited to reduce CD to 24s while cleansing 2 conditions AND granting Fury. 

These are fine. Never let Anet or rangers forget that lightning reflexes does more for ranger combat positioning in pvp than they seem to be willing to give slower, more interruptible, more visible classes. 

Quote

4.) Electric fence/Bullet-proof barrier:  These are useless.  If they were combined into a single skill that functioned like an uncrossable barrier like Line of Warding that also blocked projectiles, it would be amazing, at least in certain niche roles. 

This should be a bubble with a cast time that blocks projectiles and stuns foes attempting to cross the threshold

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Azure The Heartless.3261, Blooming Fire is the 1.5s Evade underwater. It should be so on land as well.
 

I agree with Azure's assessments.

 

The GM traits each should pulse some benefit while charging. For Immortal Dragon it is protection now, but I can see the barrier being a good addition, it just would need to be a lower base amount, what would be better is for it to pulse barrier and protection in an area. Daring Dragon pulsing Quickness, in the area would be good.

For Gunsaber:

20% damage increase across the board in all game modes. CD reduction of 20% in PvE.
Blooming Fire's water version needs to also be the land version.
Cyclone Trigger needs to be a full block
Break Step needs to be 600 range at least if not more.
Flicker Step also needs to be 600 range at least.
BPB needs to be a reflect
EF needs to be a stun and immob baseline.
FS needs the stability back.
The Master tier traits all need a rework AWAY from being related to ammo and instead focus on explosions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, wayneericgouin.9371 said:

I wouldn't call utilizing might makes right abuse lol. But I do hope the devs don't read this post and remember they haven't nerfed us in awhile 😄

Its not abuse when Core does exactly the same. Tactics × MMR

 

Its abuse when your kit allows you to get benefits from spamming ammo shouts (reduced CD), with the ability to use them thrice via TR, while pumping all the self heal needed to sustain the charge of a DS which also pumps you with might to cover the small gaps in Vigorous Shouts through MMR+MM interaction. 

 

Bladesworn is too spammy at this point and needs big fixes to define a more selfish role with potential some group utility through utilities like proposed earlier (self bubble blocking allies from projectiles or for example stab share on flow stabilizer, 3 stacks for 6 sec baseline). 

 

And a new elite, not rly theorycrafting one rn, but one that can be used in a way to support allies in an unique way if not another selfish elite. 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/15/2022 at 3:41 AM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I wish I wasn't crippled by disdain for this but I will try my best to add thoughts.

First and foremost, allowing use of dragon trigger outside of gunsaber mode was -very, very, VERY good- That design change went a long way to helping the spec feel like it might be able to do something competitively if a myriad of other things are also addressed. I am objectively happy with specifically that decision. 

Now critique. 

Yes. Now, on top of that recall that:

> Anet specifically modified Lush Forest to dissuade spammy play

> Shouts have been repeatedly nerfed in core to force Spellbreakers to not play this way

and it's just a matter of time before someone upset that their bunker damage build can't push a bladesworn off node starts a whine wave that gets this entire thing dumpstered. 

1.) Is fine.

2, 3, 4 don't take into account the battle scenarios for which these skills would see use. In any scenario vs anything with a block, the opponent moving out of range of (1) every 10 seconds will further limit the impact misreading the bladesworn will essentially cripple the bladesworn and make them exploitable. Consider this scenario.

Bladesworn (A) is fighting Ranger (B), who has a fresh GS and is currently holding LB.

(A), after landing a cc that causes (B) to use Lightning Reflexes, charges dragon trigger.
(B), in this scenario, now has advantage state because:

1.) they are out of range of Force

2.) the opponent is wasting Flow for one of two options that are both blockable and animation lock upon use

There's no fear or any need to be prudent about what option they pick. The ranger can swap to GS in this scenario and wait until any animation plays, upon which they press 4. This scenario is the same for anything that can put out aegis or on demand blocks, which includes virtuoso and its current block heavy iterations.

As bloated as (unevadable, unblockable, unblindable) is in a GM, I think we should take that as concession and acknowledgement that it will be incredibly difficult to hit these on sentient players and not bend ourselves out of shape trying to make the thing feel fair on paper, cause even with all of that BS is still grueling to play off of paper. 

It ain't DBZ. It's the stereotypical  "Samurai concentrates before cutting a building in two" trope.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jViVhHwTXs8

That aside:

I like the addition of barrier here. 

mmm. Thoughts below on that.

That's a nice idea. 

I'd like to mention that, while the core of these premises is nice, It is probably not going to be feasible in any actual pvp scenario to sit in DT for the entire charge duration. When you consider that a bladesworn under any kind of combat stress will not be capping out these charges, handing them bonuses like 10 might or a bit of barrier seems a bit paltry to me. These are grandmasters, Perhaps you would want to suggest hybrid effects, where hitting an opponent gives you something, and entering the skill at all gives you something, so at any given point you are at least getting half of your grandmaster trait used, like you proposed in 1.) 
 

This should also activate in half a second. there's no reason for it to activate in 3/4s a second when artillery slash is ranged, activates faster, and does more damage right now. 
 

Good idea. Have you heard it's a full evade underwater? 

Mandatory, really.

Good ideas. No ICD on 2. A word on 3:

BS doesn't get that many explosions to work with. Maybe that could be looked at so there's more synergy with explosions.

These are fine. Never let Anet or rangers forget that lightning reflexes does more for ranger combat positioning in pvp than they seem to be willing to give slower, more interruptible, more visible classes. 

This should be a bubble with a cast time that blocks projectiles and stuns foes attempting to cross the threshold

Excellent commentary (as always), Azure.   Thanks for your input.  Sorry it's taken so long to reply...I've been away for work and didn't want to fight my stubby fingers trying to type on my phone.

 

Quote

1.) Is fine.

2, 3, 4 don't take into account the battle scenarios for which these skills would see use. In any scenario vs anything with a block, the opponent moving out of range of (1) every 10 seconds will further limit the impact misreading the bladesworn will essentially cripple the bladesworn and make them exploitable. Consider this scenario.

Bladesworn (A) is fighting Ranger (B), who has a fresh GS and is currently holding LB.

(A), after landing a cc that causes (B) to use Lightning Reflexes, charges dragon trigger.
(B), in this scenario, now has advantage state because:

1.) they are out of range of Force

2.) the opponent is wasting Flow for one of two options that are both blockable and animation lock upon use

There's no fear or any need to be prudent about what option they pick. The ranger can swap to GS in this scenario and wait until any animation plays, upon which they press 4. This scenario is the same for anything that can put out aegis or on demand blocks, which includes virtuoso and its current block heavy iterations.

As bloated as (unevadable, unblockable, unblindable) is in a GM, I think we should take that as concession and acknowledgement that it will be incredibly difficult to hit these on sentient players and not bend ourselves out of shape trying to make the thing feel fair on paper, cause even with all of that BS is still grueling to play off of paper. 

 

Totally hear what you're saying.  A few thoughts:

1.) I think it's fair for other classes to have meaningful counterplay to BS by using their CDs.  If a ranger moves out of range of DS-Force and wants to throw up his GS block (which is a 25s CD) to counter my DS-Boost/DS-Reach (on 8s CD), I feel like he should be able to do that.  That still favors the BS in the long run, provided he can survive the next 8s to attempt his next DT.  I can also wait out the 2s block if he uses it prematurely.

 

2.) As others have suggested, increasing the range of Flicker step would a) make it much more useable, and b) would give BS some counter counter-play to such tactics.  Increasing FS to, say, 450 range would allow BS to catch up a little bit better to attempt the unblockable DS-Force, even if the ranger has moved out of range and put up his block.

 

3.) My suggestions for the GM traits are based around the idea of gaining powerful effects that help the BS fight  *outside* of DT.  So if your opponent decides to back off to avoid being hit by the unblockable DS-Force, you still benefit simply by charging in DT.  Don't wanna fight me?  That's cool; I just charged up 10 stacks of might and a +15% damage mod that I get to enjoy for the next 15s.  Or gained 5s of protection and 2500 barrier.  Etc.  The hope is that BS would become something that is much more well-rounded and can be as dangerous outside of DT as in it.   

 

Quote

> Anet specifically modified Lush Forest to dissuade spammy play

> Shouts have been repeatedly nerfed in core to force Spellbreakers to not play this way

and it's just a matter of time before someone upset that their bunker damage build can't push a bladesworn off node starts a whine wave that gets this entire thing dumpstered. 

Totally agree.  I'm very worried that ANet is gonna castrate shouts/tactics on account of BS.  I have some thoughts on how shouts might be changed to be both made more versatile/impactful while at the same time less abusable, but I'll save those for a separate post sometime.  

 

I dont think spamming gunsaber skills is as problematic as spamming heal skills.  In just about every case,  I think balance in general should tend towards promoting offense rather than promoting unkillable defense.  That was my idea behind the proposed changes to Tactical reload.  Completely restoring Gunsaber ammo would allow BS to go ham on an opponent, reload, and keep on coming, even without DT.  That, to me, sounds much better than the current situation of trying to ration your artillery slashes (your only truly "good" Gunsaber skill atm) and relying on DT to swing the fight in your favor.  

 

Quote

This should be a bubble with a cast time that blocks projectiles and stuns foes attempting to cross the threshold

Oh that's a great idea...

 

What if:

Electric Fence:  place down an uncrossable barrier that stuns foes trying to cross (like line of warding)

 

Bullet Proof Barrier:  Create a dome around yourself that blocks projectiles (just re-use Scrapper's projectile-hate dome animation).  Allies within the dome gain barrier (1.5k); radius 360.  Make it instant cast so it can be used when CC'd.  30s CD.

 

I bet that version of BPB could see extensive use in Zergs.   Even in PvP it could be useful on a shout-sworn support with Warhorn to pump healing, condi cleanse, and barrier.

 

Possibilities.... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think Flow should be at max outside of combat, just to start the fight with DT and add to the RP of the spec since you try to become 'concentrated' in combat. Tactical reload should get the axe and just fill your flow bar and reset your DT, maybe refreshes bladesworn skills by 1 charge (or reduces cds by 30 seconds thing) if the DT hits or something like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

There’s a lot of people who dislike tactical reload and I’m confused as to why, it’s a pretty nice skill to have and works great with the gunsabre and shouts. 

The existence of it nerfs the rest of the spec, it is one of the reasons why the spec is clunky, high CDs, low hitting low impact abilities that are meant to be spammed, the inevitable "It has to be nerfed because it is too strong on BS" on some skill.

It is one of the skills that has to be taken to reduce the clunk but is the reason the clunk exists in a first place. By itself the skill does not add anything to the combat, it just an extra step to do what you did anyway.

It has the same issue as banners, it is really really strong but it doesn't feel good to use since it is boring because when you press the button you don't feel the impact of it. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Vancho.8750 said:

The existence of it nerfs the rest of the spec, it is one of the reasons why the spec is clunky, high CDs, low hitting low impact abilities that are meant to be spammed, the inevitable "It has to be nerfed because it is too strong on BS" on some skill.

It is one of the skills that has to be taken to reduce the clunk but is the reason the clunk exists in a first place. By itself the skill does not add anything to the combat, it just an extra step to do what you did anyway.

It has the same issue as banners, it is really really strong but it doesn't feel good to use since it is boring because when you press the button you don't feel the impact of it. 

Agreed, that's what bugs me.

 

Also been said before but should be again. Increase Explosion synergy by making all the master traits trigger on explosions, pistol 5 counting as one, so it's viability isn't destroyed. More explosions in gunsaber and ideally with better utils or a big explosion elite. 

 

Less ammo focused, more explosion focused. If you want to keep ammo interaction make guns and glory trigger on ammo use up to 5 stacks per ammo with 50 ferocity per stack, more similarly to Attacker's Insight. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can agree with many points here. Especially with moving the unblindable part away from DT to baseline in some form and Resistance is a good way to do it. I don't have a problem with BS traits in general and I wouldn't do much to them. There are only two I'd significantly tweak and that is the Daring Dragon and the middle adept trait.

The latter suffers the consequences of not having access to regular burst skills, because normally you would think Warrior has no problems getting procs of it, but normal Warrior builds run Greatsword most of the time that supplies frequent movement skills or BRush, Rampage and such. Bladesworn though feels very tied to MH Axe in all game modes so your only movement skills end up being Gunsaber 5s which don't allow you to get the flow procs frequently enough and maybe Shield 4 if you run it. To utilize this adept and not grief yourself by running GS with no Arc Slice, you pick up Sword that procs the trait on ICD, but it's MH Sword so you give up a lot of damage from Axe. Bottom adept trait is mostly a PvE one so you naturally gravitate to the top one and from there to Might/Shout build we ride with.

I think bottom Grandmaster has to go entirely. Being able to do two DTs instead of one for the same end result just gives more animation locks and at best could be used for running away. I'd actually prefer to keep damage modifiers away from the Grandmaster line and for it to remain a choice - it's so rare in modern GW2 when you can make such adaptive choice and I cherish it.

To reinforce it and lift up the bottom GM trait, I'd turn it into some sort of options for scenarios where you really can't get good DTriggers just by good positioning and you require some mobility/dodging. So Daring Dragon could perhaps unlock your ability to dodge when charging Dragon Trigger and make the shadowstep have longer range. Or turn the shadowstep into actual Thief's Shadowstep that allows you to port to a location, get Trigger off and it teleports you back to the initial location once you leave Trigger/Gunsaber.

New Bladesworn utilities are also a problem. As you suggested, the Wall skills should absolutely be molded into one. In place of the missing skill I'd think about some heavy breakbar damage CC so Bladesworn can contribute in similar ways to Berserker in PvE. And finally, I'd redesign Dragon Mine into a new skill that perhaps alters next Dragon Trigger to have extra effects (Designers could go full weeb with it and have fun, have Slash be 360 degrees, DT#3 summon Hanzo's ultimate, whatever) and reset DT, turning into a significant DPS boosting skill - if we can incorporate some extra skill expression into using it, the better.

 

Edited by Rym.1469
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...