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Improvisation should be in Trickery, Deadly Ambush should be in Deadly Arts.


LyraOrpheo.8450

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 Improvisation, a skill that improves Steal, should be in the Trickery trait line that focuses on improving stealing while Deadly Ambush, a condi modifier for bleeds, should be under Deadly Arts (merged with Potent Poison or Deadly Ambition) following the same way Necromancer has its Condi-related traits in Curses and it's damage modifiers under Lingering Curses. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Edited by LyraOrpheo.8450
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There is a lot of traits that feel in the wrong traitline like Improvisation, Leeching Venom, Even the Odd ect... 

For Deadly Ambush, I actualy think it's in the right traitline because Trickery is about condi too (one condi option by tier of trait choice)

Edited by Jumpel.3972
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3 hours ago, Jumpel.3972 said:

There is a lot of traits that feel in the wrong traitline like Improvisation, Leeching Venom, Even the Odd ect... 

For Deadly Ambush, I actualy think it's in the right traitline because Trickery is about condi too (one condi option by tier of trait choice)

 

Trickery is not "about condi", it just happens to have condi options like Caltrops (and non condi ones). Maybe Steal causing Bleeding can be in Trickery, but definitively the condi damage modifer should be where the other Condi is, you're suggesting they should be spread apart among traits, which limits builds and doesn't go with how Necro has its condi damage modifiers in one neat place.

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19 hours ago, LyraOrpheo.8450 said:

 

Trickery is not "about condi", it just happens to have condi options like Caltrops (and non condi ones). Maybe Steal causing Bleeding can be in Trickery, but definitively the condi damage modifer should be where the other Condi is, you're suggesting they should be spread apart among traits, which limits builds and doesn't go with how Necro has its condi damage modifiers in one neat place.

Your suggestion is much more likely to limit builds than you think it is. You can currently make a roaming condi build work with just bleeds and trickery or with just poison and deadly arts but it will be difficult to kill opponents quickly without taking both lines. All the traits you are discussing are grandmaster tier traits though, so you can't currently take both potent poison and deadly ambush without either sacrificing stealth access in SA or an elite spec to do it. That is a fair tradeoff for the offensive power gained and was the reasoning behind the core P/D condi build seen recently in PvP.

 

Your suggestion would mean you could not take both traits no matter what you sacrificed as they are now both grandmaster traits in the same line, but it would also indirectly nerf non meta builds like every S/D build and kitten D/P builds even further by stopping them from taking improv and sleight of hand in one build. It would not affect meta SA D/P daredevil at all, and it would nerf PvE specter condi dps for basically no reason. Not a single build in existence would benefit from this change, it would nerf every build except the current PvP meta build, and it would remove all benefit from taking kitten over SA, further forcing you into SA. 

 

So no. Not a good change for build diversity. 

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19 hours ago, LyraOrpheo.8450 said:

which limits builds and doesn't go with how Necro has its condi damage modifiers in one neat place.

Do they? Necro have a condi damage "modifiers" spread over 3 core traitlines (curse, death magic and soul reaping) and make "use" of bleed in a fourth core traitline (blood magic). I would say that necro simply revolve more about conditions than thief. Or you'd like for the necromancer to pack into curse: putrid defense (15% increase of poison damage), Death nova (basically bleed and poison source), Soul barb (10% condition damage) and dhuumfire (burn).

 I do think that you need to learn a bit more over the various professions before using comparisons like those to justify arguable suggestions

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1 hour ago, Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

Your suggestion is much more likely to limit builds than you think it is. You can currently make a roaming condi build work with just bleeds and trickery or with just poison and deadly arts but it will be difficult to kill opponents quickly without taking both lines. All the traits you are discussing are grandmaster tier traits though, so you can't currently take both potent poison and deadly ambush without either sacrificing stealth access in SA or an elite spec to do it. That is a fair tradeoff for the offensive power gained and was the reasoning behind the core P/D condi build seen recently in PvP.

 

Your suggestion would mean you could not take both traits no matter what you sacrificed as they are now both grandmaster traits in the same line, but it would also indirectly nerf non meta builds like every S/D build and kitten D/P builds even further by stopping them from taking improv and sleight of hand in one build. It would not affect meta SA D/P daredevil at all, and it would nerf PvE specter condi dps for basically no reason. Not a single build in existence would benefit from this change, it would nerf every build except the current PvP meta build, and it would remove all benefit from taking kitten over SA, further forcing you into SA. 

 

So no. Not a good change for build diversity. 


For PvP perhaps you can get away with one or the to other but not for PvE  where you are locked with having to bring both Trickery and Deadly Arts if you're Condi. My suggestion wasn't to have both Grandmaster arts in Deadly Arts, I said they should be merged with either Potent Poison or Deadly Ambition, so that means you would have Elite Spec, Trickery and Deadly Arts for max DPS, OR Elite Spec, then either Trickery(Lead Attacks) or Deadly Arts(Deadly Merged trait) and finally Shadow Arts or Acrobatics for a build that sacrifices maximum damage for other options. Right now in PvE if you do just Elite Spec, then either Trickery or Deadly Arts and then Acrobatics or Shadow Arts (which I believe you mentioned you can do just fine in PvP) your damage plummets a lot and the trade off of "do less damage in exchange for other stuff" becomes bigger than it should be if only the condi could be in one place like Lingering Curse is.  

 

 

Quote

 I do think that you need to learn a bit more over the various professions before using comparisons like those to justify arguable suggestions

 

Nice way to be condescending while adding nothing of value to the conversation with that statement. For your first paragraph realistically nobody uses Death Magic for condi, even LI minion masters who go condi will use other traits in it (for the minions). Optimized builds are normally Elite Spec, Soul Reaping, then third spec which usually is either Curses for focusing on more damage or Blood Magic to provide utility (or even Death Magic, but not for Putrid Defenses), there's options for with trade-offs. Now look at Thief and you HAVE to bring both Trickery and Deadly Arts (plus Elite slot), if you only bring one or the other you give away too much DPS, and what you get from Acrobatics or Shadow Arts ends up being not worth trading off that much damage modifiers.

 

Edited by LyraOrpheo.8450
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Like I said, you'd be merging Deadly Ambush with Potent Potion and/or Deadly Ambition, not replacing, so if you're going Trickery and Deadly Arts for maximum DPS you can have the exact same build except now you'd have to choose Quick Pockets, Sleight of Hand or Improvisation since Deadly Ambush's Condi on Steal and Bleed damage increase is already included.

Edited by LyraOrpheo.8450
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