Only nerfs, no buffs to sustain, no way for more elemental empowerment uptime, no hammer orb change....

[ClickToKill.8473]

5 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

"I've seen".

Does this mean u actually didnt play it urself and say that we, that played it, are not giving an accurate Analysis?

And "just not with hammer". Hammer is part of Catalyst and if a weapon should work good for the e spec, it should be the e spec weapon or not? Or at least having some synergy with the traits. Which is not the case for catalyst. 

Also 99% of Catalyst Feedback went for pve, so how can you say that others are not giving an accurate analysis about the overall Catalyst state, because 99% were talking about pve, you are talking about pvp and a bit wvw.

The thing is that Catalyst was bad already before this patch, most of the other e specs (especially mechanist) performed good and still do. However catalyst does not. Or did any other e spec lose 10k dps? I doubt. 

 

"I've seen" because I'm not really a WvW player, but I did work with the spec in the other facets of the game. 

 

And the spec's weapon doesn't need to be good to make the spec viable.  When it was the king of arena, Mirage was strongest .  when it used scepter/Torch, not the axe.  You don't need to run Warhorn with tempest and Staff Weaver is a strong build.  Hammer has synergy with the aura spam catalysts can do.  Maybe that is not enough, but it doesn't make the entire e-spec unviable. 

 

The only thing bad about catalyst before this last patch was the reliability of Hammer 3 skills.  Agreed its still not in the best spot.  But I do believe a lot of people just despise the class because its not what they wanted from day 1, and it can never be good because of that. 

[Flori.2194]

7 minutes ago, ClickToKill.8473 said:

The only thing bad about catalyst before this last patch was the reliability of Hammer 3 skills.  Agreed its still not in the best spot.  But I do believe a lot of people just despise the class because its not what they wanted from day 1, and it can never be good because of that. 

And it's a completely uninspired mess that lacks any concept or theme, has boring traits that either belong to Tempest or are just boring stat boosts. It's a combo spec, which is weird, because after roughly 10 years of power creep combos nearly don't matter at all in this game. Hammer is already a conjured weapon so the weapon choice is a lore fail. The augments are just worse core utilities that see no support in traits or with runes (OH YEAH, there weren't any new runes). It's missing a useful elite utility, but that's nothing new for ele players. Shall we continue? Oh, the design of the e-spec armour skin, the helmet, has those floating orbs, you know, the one from hammer that you won't have with any other weapon, but any other weapon has better aura generation than hammer, besides the fact that this helmet is ugly as hell. But auras are better suited for Tempest because shouts are a thing and are much better than augments. Hammer is useless in PvP, so you are left with Core Ele with an additional, static combo field but you miss another core traitline which makes Catalyst in WvW and sPvP as viable as Core Ele, read: not viable at all. It has no built in sustian like Tempest or Weaver (e. g. Water Overload and tons of barrier). It is so lackluster that I refuse to believe that they put more than 20 minutes of work into this spec. And the best thing about it? They even said they have no idea what they did with Catalyst. CMC in the presentation video said: "So somehow we decided to give Ele hammer." They went into their "class designing room", sat on the table, wrote down some first ideas, put them all in a blender with the remaining ideas for Tempest and Weaver and glued them together. Every fooking fanmade e-spec that was posted in this forum or on reddit is better, at least conceptually, because Catalyst has no concept: Melee bruiser without sustain that needs auras (hello, Tempest) that its e-spec weapon can't generate that needs cc that its e-spec weapon can't generate with a bunch of minigames you have to play in your head all the time (hammer 3 with attunement swapping, placing your F5 (why is it even an additional button, put it on F1-F4 already, you idiots), using your augments in the right sphere, dodge, do mechanics, do cc, finish your combofields, do more cc to get more stacks, do a leap finisher (not on hammer) to get auras for more stacks, keep those stacks etc. etc.

 

Giving Elementalist quickness was a good idea... anything else is bullshite. I said it before and I will say it again: I can design a better e-spec in two days, a lot of people already designed good e-specs, but those people at anet get paid for being absolute dogshite. 

[Ace.1784]

15 hours ago, Flori.2194 said:

CMC in the presentation video said: "So somehow we decided to give Ele hammer."

Everyone posts this quote out of context and idk how anyone could misinterpret the original quote.

57 minutes 44 seconds in, CMC says, "For some reason we decided to give Elementalist a hammer, 20 skills, we have a lot to get through, we're gonna try to speed up a little bit [...]." The quote is OBVIOUSLY, both contextually and from the mouth of CMC himself, referencing the quantity of skills that comes with making Elementalist use a 2H weapon, vs the 12 skills of a MH and the 8 skills of an OH.

 

[Obtena.7952]

2 hours ago, Vinteros Asteano.1209 said:

Everyone posts this quote out of context and idk how anyone could misinterpret the original quote.

57 minutes 44 seconds in, CMC says, "For some reason we decided to give Elementalist a hammer, 20 skills, we have a lot to get through, we're gonna try to speed up a little bit [...]." The quote is OBVIOUSLY, both contextually and from the mouth of CMC himself, referencing the quantity of skills that comes with making Elementalist use a 2H weapon, vs the 12 skills of a MH and the 8 skills of an OH.

 

This isn't an accident either. People have an axe to grind and will misinterpret anything they can find to do that. 

Hopefully Anet have Catalyst in a place where they aren't backed into a corner because of Jade Bot CD and can consider improving it with this newfound breathing room. It's sad that people complain about the changes without understanding these changes need to happen for Anet to make Catalyst better. 

Edited March 17, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[scarlettmoonbabe.6932]

3 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

This isn't an accident either. People have an axe to grind and will misinterpret anything they can find to do that. 

Hopefully Anet have Catalyst in a place where they aren't backed into a corner because of Jade Bot CD and can consider improving it with this newfound breathing room. It's sad that people complain about the changes without understanding these changes need to happen for Anet to make Catalyst better. 

 balance can exist. and it doesnt look like this, or where anet has been going with it. i dont even play cata, i main a necro, where my class gets treated like gold to anet. i play every class and every game mode, and i can assure you the balance in this game is a complete joke. the direction they are going is not in line with what they said they were going to do "bring the player not the profession" (meaning it doesnt matter what class you enjoy you will have a viable role in any content) ele underperforms compared to other classes, without bringing anything unique to the table (besides being complicated and prone to dying), in every single piece of content. whereas something like firebrand could walk up to any lfg and find an instant place and be welcomed with open arms. i surely dont know how to balance their game, but at this point im not sure if anet even has a clue how to balance their game. i get they have data. doesnt mean they are using it wisely. it could never be perfect, but that doesnt mean it has to be so bad xD 

EDIT: when i say class i mean profession, not spec or build. felt the need to clarify. i'm used to playing many other mmo games that refer to them as classes.

Edited March 18, 2022 by scarlettmoonbabe.6932

[Obtena.7952]

38 minutes ago, scarlettmoonbabe.6932 said:

 balance can exist. and it doesnt look like this, or where anet has been going with it. i dont even play cata, i main a necro, where my class gets treated like gold to anet. i play every class and every game mode, and i can assure you the balance in this game is a complete joke. the direction they are going is not in line with what they said they were going to do "bring the player not the profession" (meaning it doesnt matter what class you enjoy you will have a viable role in any content) ele underperforms compared to other classes, without bringing anything unique to the table (besides being complicated and prone to dying), in every single piece of content. whereas something like firebrand could walk up to any lfg and find an instant place and be welcomed with open arms. i surely dont know how to balance their game, but at this point im not sure if anet even has a clue how to balance their game. i get they have data. doesnt mean they are using it wisely. it could never be perfect, but that doesnt mean it has to be so bad xD 

EDIT: when i say class i mean profession, not spec or build. felt the need to clarify. i'm used to playing many other mmo games that refer to them as classes.

Well, you can assure me all you like whatever you want. That's neither here nor there. I mean, whether Anet balances bad or good .. they are going to do it how they see fit, regardless of what people are going to 'assure' other people of.

So here are the options: keep complaining it's awful or work with the process they have in place to make it as good as it can be. 

Edited March 18, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[scarlettmoonbabe.6932]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, you can assure me all you like whatever you want. That's neither here nor there. I mean, whether Anet balances bad or good .. they are going to do it how they see fit so I don't really need to hear your version of what it should or shouldn't be. 

...it's a public forum full of passionate players, what do you expect? xD i don't need to hear anything you say either but i'm doing it anyways because every voice matters to me, even if we see differently. it could be entirely possible anet would listen to us and make a few changes based on the things we communicate. that's the small hope we all have by posting our suggestions and feedback here. are you trying to say no one should ever give feedback to an artist about anything because the artist wont listen and do whatever they want anyways? i seek understanding about your stance and where you're coming from. also my post was a reply to you but definitely not just for you. it's for everyone who can read the forum

[Jski.6180]

EoD was not worth the time anet spend on it when they could of been balancing there game far better then what elite spec we got. GW2 has lost 2 years for nothing.

I sadly called the nerf that was coming and i think more will be on its way. I get the feeling we are going to see a major base boon duration nerf to the F5 making it worthless with out the GM they just massively over buffed to keep some ppl from giving up (and even the GM will be nerfed). This is what anet dose they over buff to hid gut renching nerfs only to nerf the over buff. That is the history of the ele class.

[gooddrakkarboi.4870]

On 3/17/2022 at 10:17 PM, Vinteros Asteano.1209 said:

Everyone posts this quote out of context and idk how anyone could misinterpret the original quote.

57 minutes 44 seconds in, CMC says, "For some reason we decided to give Elementalist a hammer, 20 skills, we have a lot to get through, we're gonna try to speed up a little bit [...]." The quote is OBVIOUSLY, both contextually and from the mouth of CMC himself, referencing the quantity of skills that comes with making Elementalist use a 2H weapon, vs the 12 skills of a MH and the 8 skills of an OH.

 

B-b-b-b-kitten. Even with context it still means: "We have no idea how hammer fits in the lore, concept or overall narrative." What CMC said was basically "We gave Ele a hammer [but we don't know why]." And then he says "We have 20 skills, so we have to show a lot more skills than with other classes." Those two statements "For some reason..." and "we have a lot to get through" aren't connected. The point still stands: No idea why hammer - thematically, conceptually, narratively.  And btw, they didn't have to design 20 skills, the auto-attacks are lackluster, skill 3 is always the same and the augments combined are maybe worth one skill of another profession... So the work they had to do was basically the same...

[fixit.7189]

funny some people are like, omg catalyst is fine! yet when i play OW, i never see anyone actually playing it: all the eles (including me) are still playing weaver or tempest. meanwhile, i see tons of the other eod elites being used but not catalyst. gee, i wonder why? 😞

Edited March 19, 2022 by fixit.7189

[ScottBroChill.3254]

5 hours ago, fixit.7189 said:

funny some people are like, omg catalyst is fine! yet when i play OW, i never see anyone actually playing it: all the eles (including me) are still playing weaver or tempest. meanwhile, i see tons of the other eod elites being used but not catalyst. gee, i wonder why? 😞

Hey man, I'm somewhere out there and it hurts so good. 

[Puck.3697]

5 hours ago, fixit.7189 said:

funny some people are like, omg catalyst is fine! yet when i play OW, i never see anyone actually playing it: all the eles (including me) are still playing weaver or tempest. meanwhile, i see tons of the other eod elites being used but not catalyst. gee, i wonder why? 😞

Tbh. 

Even with the cele / trailblazer weaver builds got shown to be super strong in OW content it still wasn't popular. 

Revenant by statistics was still one of the least played proffessions and it was super strong throughout pof. 

Player metrics aren't always solid proof of things. 

Your overall point is correct tho, catalyst is in a bad place and anyone trying to state it's fine is defintly not playing it 😂

[Coldtart.4785]

It makes sense that trailblazer open world builds for ele wouldn't be all that popular if you think about it. If you're going to play a cheesy condi build why not play the cheesiest condi builds like fb or ren?

[Puck.3697]

10 minutes ago, Coldtart.4785 said:

It makes sense that trailblazer open world builds for ele wouldn't be all that popular if you think about it. If you're going to play a cheesy condi build why not play the cheesiest condi builds like fb or ren?

Tbh ren is pretty unpopular to according to statistics. Revenants one of the least played proffessions 

Guardians the most played however for sure haha. 

Although since the torment runes and battle scars nerf I do question if it's still that much better then cele weaver. 

Cele weaver feels pretty kitten immortal open world wise  

 

[scarlettmoonbabe.6932]

4 minutes ago, Daddy.8125 said:

Tbh ren is pretty unpopular to according to statistics. Revenants one of the least played proffessions 

Guardians the most played however for sure haha. 

Although since the torment runes and battle scars nerf I do question if it's still that much better then cele weaver. 

Cele weaver feels pretty kitten immortal open world wise  

 

are those metrics including free to play players? cuz i imagine theres tons of people who try the game out and dont get the expansions so they dont have access to rev. i could still see it not being super popular tho, all of the other options are more familiar to the rpg genre with maybe the exception of mesmer, so they choose what they normally play in games like this and end up sticking with it. glad i trusted my gut choosing necro over ele for my first class i'll tell you that xD ele daggers are fun af but i would have struggled so much i probs wouldve quit the game, especially using staff like i would have. staff feels not great to me when in my mind should be a top weapon for ele based on tropes alone

[Puck.3697]

16 hours ago, scarlettmoonbabe.6932 said:

are those metrics including free to play players? cuz i imagine theres tons of people who try the game out and dont get the expansions so they dont have access to rev. i could still see it not being super popular tho, all of the other options are more familiar to the rpg genre with maybe the exception of mesmer, so they choose what they normally play in games like this and end up sticking with it. glad i trusted my gut choosing necro over ele for my first class i'll tell you that xD ele daggers are fun af but i would have struggled so much i probs wouldve quit the game, especially using staff like i would have. staff feels not great to me when in my mind should be a top weapon for ele based on tropes alone

Well considering you have to put your account onto guild wars efficiency manually to be included in the numbers I doubt any random "just trying it out f2p" are putting their account APIs into it. 

Tbh I don't see many revenants even as strong as they are. I find most players are either guardian or necro, but they've been most played even before firebrand and scourge realistically. 

I think the energy management requirements and stuff puts players off playing it.

Elementalist was my first character tbh, I didn't find it too bad I didn't find its rotation that hard to really manage either. 

I think the core difficulty that comes with elementalist is in a DPS build mechanics become far more punishing to you if you mess up and tend to get 1 shot. 

However, open world cele fireweaver, fire weaver in spvp. I found easy. And hybrid weaver offers s really good way to get out of the alacrity requirements, but griefing set isnt the easiest to get ahold of prior Ascended gear where you can physically pick the stats. 

But yeah you will have alot more QoL with necromancer haha 

I swapped to warrior in EoD primarily because I felt catalyst was "more of the same" realistically more then its power level. It's another melee weapon another low sustain "brawler"... And outside of the orb just feels like core ele. 

I wanted something new primarily. 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Daddy.8125