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Mech is useless garbage in pvp/wvw?


myun.6395

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So after all the whines and crying babies they decided to remove defiance bar of the mech in both pvp and wvw.

 

In wvw it was already garbage, now will just get perma rooted blinded cc and killed in few seconds there is no point of even unlocking the spec.

 

In pvp probably same story, just better play holosmith or untamed at this point, at least he has 2 pets to used, super low cds, better mobility and damage, than a garbage robot ai that will get perma blinded and cc to death, now the F skills will miss like 90% of the times, because of aoe stuns, blinds etc.

 

Good job anet.

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Mech has always been a meh-garbage pick. The only decent Mechanist build for PvP was condi tank with a huge emphasis on tank. The defiance bar was a way to prevent the mech from being perma CC, this is more relevant in WvW than SPvP though.

 

The idea itself wasnt bad but the mech breakbar was very easy to break. "basic" movement condi like cripple would easily eat your defiance bar and it isnt like such condi is rare. So when you add that to freeze, immobilize, slow fear and hard CC, you end up with a mech that spends its time not doing anything.

 

Plus mechanic scales poorly. In a 1 v 1 it's ok, but in a 1 v 2 it is horrible and it only gets worse as more people join. Yeah some people will say it is the same for all classes, but other classes dont split their power between the pet and the player. Even Ranger which is the OG pet class doesnt really suffer from that because most of its power is coming from the player and not the pet.

 

I cant say I didnt expect that but yeah, Holosmith and Scrapper will remain the only choice to play as an engineer in WvW. 

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Personally I disliked the Holo and Srapper in PvE/WvW - just did not like their style of play and only liked this in PvE. (I do not care about maximizing dps and stuff and play what I 'like' the most.) In the PvP forums before the patch people ranked Mecha as strong.

I found that it made most sense to go for the player - not the mech. In PvP. Cause mech ... almost unkillable unless focused by more players at once - even without the trait that boosts vitality (which I do not take). Just focusing the Mecha (instead of Necro lol) ...

It might work in smaller groups if you to not go 1 vs. x but x vs y and your group works well together. Personally I like it - just cause I like that playstyle - because of the signets that also center arount the Mech (if active skill is used while the mech is summoned). I often found that already 1 more other player where the skills/builds of both player synergize well ... can make a huge difference.

Having more CD on the active of shift signet ... is more annoying to me. Was a nice stunbreak and I also loved it to use it for porting quickly. Bust must have been considered too OP cause it also ported the mech to the same location.

Edited by Luthan.5236
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5 hours ago, Adrianna.3092 said:

The defiance bar was actually worse in pvp and WvW...id rather take short 1-2 second duration CCs than 5-6 seconds of doing nothing...

Yeah sure, now your pet is perma CC streak, rooted in place, blinded. You are lucky if you can cast F1 or F3 1 time out of ten now. Only the F2 stunbreak is usable.

There is no reason to play it over untamed now, you can be in berserker and do insane damage with almost perma sic em on you, can disangage easily from 1vs2 or hold more people with kiting.

Lots of good utilities on very low cds.

 

But whatever i might be wrong who knows.

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55 minutes ago, Okhu.7948 said:

Every spec doesn't need to be good / viable in every game mode.

actually it does have to be good/viable in every aspect.

What it does not have to be is: 'the best' 'meta' or 'dominant'.

But every spec should be viable or good enough in every aspect of the game yes, that I truly stand by.

 

Edited by Wiggely.7320
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22 hours ago, Wiggely.7320 said:

actually it does have to be good/viable in every aspect.

What it does not have to be is: 'the best' 'meta' or 'dominant'.

But every spec should be viable or good enough in every aspect of the game yes, that I truly stand by.

 

i wouldn´t say it has to bee good/viable in every aspect, since that would imply that you could be successful with whatever random traits, skills and gear you play. 

Also, the game-design has never been in a way, that allowed every specc to be viable everywhere. That´s been this way since release, and has never been the target of ArenaNet. 

The target is, that every class (!!!) has at least one viable specc in every mode (open world, fractals, raids, sPvP, WvW-roaming, WvW-zerging). This doesn´t mean that ANet didn´t try to bring more variety in possible setups (raids specifically) by giving more synergy-access to different classes, and limiting synergies from classes that were overloaded in these aspects. 

Ofc i would LOVE to see every specc having a place everywhere, but it´s not very realistic, and most likely a nightmare to balance. 

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1 hour ago, Custodio.6134 said:

i wouldn´t say it has to bee good/viable in every aspect, since that would imply that you could be successful with whatever random traits, skills and gear you play. 

Also, the game-design has never been in a way, that allowed every specc to be viable everywhere. That´s been this way since release, and has never been the target of ArenaNet. 

The target is, that every class (!!!) has at least one viable specc in every mode (open world, fractals, raids, sPvP, WvW-roaming, WvW-zerging). This doesn´t mean that ANet didn´t try to bring more variety in possible setups (raids specifically) by giving more synergy-access to different classes, and limiting synergies from classes that were overloaded in these aspects. 

Ofc i would LOVE to see every specc having a place everywhere, but it´s not very realistic, and most likely a nightmare to balance. 

not arguing that you're wrong, because most likely you're right.
But I would say that while I agree you can't balance around every random bunch of traits thrown on youtube and called 'a build', I still think the more specific a 'spec' is, the more it should be all round 'decent enough'.
We're discussing the latest elite spec here, that could have been balanced better for things like wvw, these game modes aren't exactly novelties.
 

Taking WvW big fights as an example: it wouldn't be gamebreaking at all to make it 'decent'.
Simply let the mech stay closer if not sent away on purpose, and give it some better resistance to player aoe once it exceeds 5 enemy players or something. A resistance buff the engineer of course should not get, other than what we already have.
Player aoe so no difference for pve encounters, and only from a certain number up, so it doesn't effect pvp or smaller skirmishes.

Just a random example, but it doesn't always have to be about changing traits or dps, to balance something.
 

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In my experience when the AI works the spec is stupidly overpowered but most of the times Mech seems to do what it does and many times i have done pvp/wvw it seems to go full on berserk and attack everything on sight from players to critters.

And by all that is holy the mech might actually have more worse pet pathing than vanilla wow hunter pets.

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  • 4 weeks later...

PvE is far more forgiving to the mech than WvW and PvP are. I've been trying to run a support mechanist build with various variants in zergs recently and while the barrier it provides is ok, the greatest downfall really is the ai of the spec. Most of my mechs deaths have been because the zerg would stop moving and its follow would overshoot by miles into the enemy ranged spike, or we'd go up some stairs and the mech would decide to take a different flight of stairs. Shift signet is compulsory as it makes it so that as long as you're on the commander, you'll receive stability and boons that will transfer to the mech and help keep it alive. It generates perma alac that's always good and the F2 is very good as an aoe stun break that can get people who are caught in cc spikes out of trouble. However in the end the mechs pathing, habit of overshooting the team or randomly aggroing onto people and susceptibility to CC is its downfall. In most fights it will go down extremely quickly the moment it does one of these things, and it will do one of these things. As said previously in anything small scale, it's absolutely useless because people easily kite away from the mech and confuse it, or they simply load it up with some cripples and chills and it proceeds to do nothing for the entire fight or get its ranged attacks reflected back at it due to the sheer amount of projectile reflect people can carry nowadays. 

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WVW zerging has no place for AI pets. Mechanist will never be part of a zerg. 

 

Pet specializations are unfair for small scale or pvp scenarios too. 

 

They will only be good for pve content. Deal with it because no matter what adjustments can be made to the mechanist it will always be an AI reliant specialization and will only be used in pve.

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It is in World vs World:

 

In PVE enemies don't run from you, in PVP if someone runs from you they forsake the point so they have to weigh up their options. In World vs World roaming at least, it doesn't matter if you cap the guard post or camp, people will run from you using movement abilities and while you may be capable of catching up with them, in most situations your mech won't be unless you use shift signet. This results in a rather underpowered version of a core engineer fighting someone while a mech lumbers across the field. 

 

In PVE the mech can't be bursted down unless you're fighting a champion and it aggros it, in PVP you're wasting time you could be using to kill the engineer. However in WvW zerg combat there's so much damage flying around that it's very easy for the mech to end up being taken out by aoes, and as it can't dodge it's very susceptible to cc spikes and ends up being picked off quite quickly. 

 

There's just not enough shift signets to keep your mech from either being outpaced, cc'd or dying in WvW.

 

I personally disagree with the concept that certain specs shouldn't be viable in certain game modes, all specs should be viable in all game modes. Thieves and Rangers have the same issues as engineers in WvW, but at least engineers have viable specs for both roaming and zerging.

 

I think that mechanist could benefit from the mech being more resistant to aoe in wvw and maybe dodging when the engineer dodges if it's close enough by? It could also go down another path entirely and make mechanists interactions with the mech when it's not summoned more beneficial akin to the orbital strikes from sky circus, as well as returning toolbelt when the mech is recharging/de-summoned so that at the very least it's only a marginally weaker core engi when it doesn't have the mech.

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We have an entire class who's class mechanic is a pet and look how often it's played in Wvw Zergs. Ohh yeah, never. 

Except for Soulbeast which class mechanic does what now? Yep. Remove the pet. 

Ai is simply to slow to work in Wvw. 

Even zergs are zoooooming around like crazy. 

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1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

We have an entire class who's class mechanic is a pet and look how often it's played in Wvw Zergs. Ohh yeah, never. 

Except for Soulbeast which class mechanic does what now? Yep. Remove the pet. 

Ai is simply to slow to work in Wvw. 

Even zergs are zoooooming around like crazy. 

u can build druid for zergs which is pretty solid with like 1 per zerg. but again not bcs it has acces to a pet

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