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What the march 15th balance patch SHOULD have looked like


Joraan Adenard.2061

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The problems with catalyst benchmarks stem from the "hitbox abuse" that is occuring with hammer 3 projectiles. Basically, those projectiles can hit the target multiple times. Therefore, as long as the hitbox is bigger than the projectile's orbit and the elementalist can stand right in the middle, the projectiles will increase the dps significantly. Of course, this inflates the benchmark dps to an unrealistic number that doesn't reflect actual performance.

To be consistent with past changes to builds that were hitbox-dependant (meteor shower, air overload, ice bow 4), what Anet SHOULD have done is as follow :

 

Icy Coils, Crescent Wind, Flame Wheel,  Rocky Loop : each projectile can hit the same target only once per revolution. Damage coefficient has been increased by ___ to slightly offset the overall damage loss. There will now be a 0.5 second delay between activating a projectile and the availabilty of Grand Finale to prevent unintentional double tapping.

 

Also, the main reason given by Anet for decreasing overall damage output is that there wasn't any trade-off to make a dps catalyst into a quickness build. What SHOULD have been done to fix that problem.

 

Deploy jade sphere : all boons provided by this skill are now only applied to the elementalist.

Sphere Specialist : when you apply a boon to yourself through your jade sphere, apply it to up to 4 additional allies. (Insert range here). Boons provided by your jade sphere now have ___ increased duration. This would make the trait necessary to play boon support, and would also make the build less clunky because your allies can now stand outside your sphere, as long as you are yourself inside the sphere. With the previous 5s cooldown, it would be now realistic to provide quickness to your team during a real scenario

 

Yesterday changes were disconnected from the reality of the spec, failed to address fundamental gameplay flaws, all while making a whole spec much harder and less impactful than the alternatives professions for the same role.

 

Edited by Joraan Adenard.2061
Wrong trait name
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17 minutes ago, Joraan Adenard.2061 said:

Deploy jade sphere : all boons provided by this skill are now only applied to the elementalist.

Spectacular sphere : when you apply a boon to yourself through your jade sphere, apply it to up to 4 additional allies. (Insert range here). Boons provided by your jade sphere now have ___ increased duration. This would make the trait necessary to play boon support, and would also make the build less clunky because your allies can now stand outside your sphere, as long as you are yourself inside the sphere. With the previous 5s cooldown, it would be now realistic to provide quickness to your team during a real scenario

An alternative suggestion would be : 
 

  1. Keep the sphere as it is with spectacular sphere doubling the base boon duration.
  2. Keep the empowered empowerement stat scaling as it is post patch but add an overall damage buff if you have a number of charges above a certain threshold.

For now the "damage" trait (empowered empowerement) scales all the stats and thus is a polyvalent trait. If you add a damage modifier you make it clear for everyone in form and function that it is a damage trait.

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4 minutes ago, Joraan Adenard.2061 said:

While I like your suggested damage addition to empoweredpowerment, your suggestion doesn't adress the hitbox dependancy of the rotation which is the main problem behind the discrepancy between benchmark dps and realistic dps.

Well I agreed 100% with your suggestion so I did not feel the need to comment on it ^^'

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44 minutes ago, Joraan Adenard.2061 said:

The problems with catalyst benchmarks stem from the "hitbox abuse" that is occuring with hammer 3 projectiles. Basically, those projectiles can hit the target multiple times. Therefore, as long as the hitbox is bigger than the projectile's orbit and the elementalist can stand right in the middle, the projectiles will increase the dps significantly. Of course, this inflates the benchmark dps to an unrealistic number that doesn't reflect actual performance.

To be consistent with past changes to builds that were hitbox-dependant (meteor shower, air overload, ice bow 4), what Anet SHOULD have done is as follow :

 

Icy Coils, Crescent Wind, Flame Wheel,  Rocky Loop : each projectile can hit the same target only once per revolution. Damage coefficient has been increased by ___ to slightly offset the overall damage loss. There will now be a 0.5 second delay between activating a projectile and the availabilty of Grand Finale to prevent unintentional double tapping.

 

Also, the main reason given by Anet for decreasing overall damage output is that there wasn't any trade-off to make a dps catalyst into a quickness build. What SHOULD have been done to fix that problem.

 

Deploy jade sphere : all boons provided by this skill are now only applied to the elementalist.

Sphere Specialist : when you apply a boon to yourself through your jade sphere, apply it to up to 4 additional allies. (Insert range here). Boons provided by your jade sphere now have ___ increased duration. This would make the trait necessary to play boon support, and would also make the build less clunky because your allies can now stand outside your sphere, as long as you are yourself inside the sphere. With the previous 5s cooldown, it would be now realistic to provide quickness to your team during a real scenario

 

Yesterday changes were disconnected from the reality of the spec, failed to address fundamental gameplay flaws, all while making a whole spec much harder and less impactful than the alternatives professions for the same role.

 

While I agree 100%, 

I would like to add something about the sustain...

...Well I would like to add sustain...because...catalyst has no sustain. 

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6 minutes ago, SeTect.5918 said:

While I agree 100%, 

I would like to add something about the sustain...

...Well I would like to add sustain...because...catalyst has no sustain. 

 

That is another problem, yes. The nerf to Empowered Empowerment not only reduced damage, but also sustain, which was completely unnecessary.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Joraan Adenard.2061 said:

The problems with catalyst benchmarks stem from the "hitbox abuse" that is occuring with hammer 3 projectiles. Basically, those projectiles can hit the target multiple times. Therefore, as long as the hitbox is bigger than the projectile's orbit and the elementalist can stand right in the middle, the projectiles will increase the dps significantly. Of course, this inflates the benchmark dps to an unrealistic number that doesn't reflect actual performance.

To be consistent with past changes to builds that were hitbox-dependant (meteor shower, air overload, ice bow 4), what Anet SHOULD have done is as follow :

 

Icy Coils, Crescent Wind, Flame Wheel,  Rocky Loop : each projectile can hit the same target only once per revolution. Damage coefficient has been increased by ___ to slightly offset the overall damage loss. There will now be a 0.5 second delay between activating a projectile and the availabilty of Grand Finale to prevent unintentional double tapping.

 

Also, the main reason given by Anet for decreasing overall damage output is that there wasn't any trade-off to make a dps catalyst into a quickness build. What SHOULD have been done to fix that problem.

 

Deploy jade sphere : all boons provided by this skill are now only applied to the elementalist.

Sphere Specialist : when you apply a boon to yourself through your jade sphere, apply it to up to 4 additional allies. (Insert range here). Boons provided by your jade sphere now have ___ increased duration. This would make the trait necessary to play boon support, and would also make the build less clunky because your allies can now stand outside your sphere, as long as you are yourself inside the sphere. With the previous 5s cooldown, it would be now realistic to provide quickness to your team during a real scenario

 

Yesterday changes were disconnected from the reality of the spec, failed to address fundamental gameplay flaws, all while making a whole spec much harder and less impactful than the alternatives professions for the same role.

 

I have no doubt someone is talking to somebody about what is going on with Ele. Even other mains are like WTH.

The volunteer who playtested it is going to get a stern talking to!

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3 hours ago, Joraan Adenard.2061 said:

 

That is another problem, yes. The nerf to Empowered Empowerment not only reduced damage, but also sustain, which was completely unnecessary.

 

 

We couldn't even reach the max stacks unless we stayed in earth and air attunement only and dodged attacks perfectly per trait.

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2 minutes ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

We couldn't even reach the max stacks unless we stayed in earth and air attunement only and dodged attacks perfectly per trait.

 

Agreed. This is however a known issue. My post was referencing the perceived problems by Anet and how they should have fixed them instead of the nonsensical "fixes" that happened yesterday.

 

There is more work to be done to make this spec feel good and fluid in many contexts that arent a static boss that doesnt fight back, starting with facilitating the process of reaching and maintaining max stacks.

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It should have stated "We are aware of the mess we created with Catalyst and while we are trying to provide our loved (sic!) Elementalist players a new valuable tool we realized that Catalyst missed the mark. That's why we disabled Catalyst temporarily for all game modes. Expect some more updates on the rework further down the line."

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One of the things that gets me is that there was a lot of different ways to "fix" the catalyst.  Your suggestion is good, just like how many other suggestions are also good.  I don't understand why Anet went the way they did, when they could have easily made hammer easier to play while fixing the hitbox exploit against large targets.  

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This was discussed in the past , could just have hammer orbs pulse the damage in its (melee) range instead of having it a projectile. That's how renegade works with Embrace the Darkness and how harbinger shroud pulsing damage works. That's the fastest change possible.
I've also suggested that damage from hammer orbs be shifted onto the skills and making hammer orbs more defensive if they're not going to change the durations of the buff. Losing 7% crit chance is already a hefty penalty if your air orb drops for power builds, losing 5% damage bonus from the fire orb is also a penalty.

Re: Deploy Jade Sphere , They can move fury instead of quickness on the base jade sphere , moving quickness onto Spectacular Sphere similar to every spec that applies quickness (see StM chrono, scrapper, harbinger, cQB). Sphere specialist could have halved cooldown on deploy jade sphere or something to that end instead of increasing base boon duration. This would mean faster recovery if you miss a jade sphere cast location.

Edited by Infusion.7149
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