Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Dragon's End Still Needs Changes


Recommended Posts

The issue is that with just a little above average playing you can still fail DE due to RNG. I tried it last night to test out how the change affected things. We got ONE Break Bar, the rest were tails or moving. We failed it at 3%. Two things need to change for DE. What's required to do DE consistently is WAY above what any other meta requires in the game. Requiring a little more is fine, people can handle that. People just get frustrated if there is a higher requirement than they can so. This can be seen in the EU LFG where DE meta groups have largely vanished since it's simply too frustrating.

1. None of the RNG stuff can repeat before they've all been used and no stuff will appear twice in a row. The order of the tail, movement, and Break Bar can be RNG, however, you always get a cycle of the three and back-to-back is impossible. This will keep the sequence to RNG while also making it predictable.

2. Killing the tail removes a tiny portion of health from Soo-won. It makes no sense that an important part of her body is smacked around and she feels nothing from it.

Edited by Malus.2184
  • Like 9
  • Thanks 2
  • Confused 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Joined a random group and failed again.  6th fail.  Guess Anet didn't nerf this enough in the March 15th path to make it easier.  Maybe I will wait for about month until I collect enough writs of dragon's end to get an egg without doing this stupid event.

Edited by pugster.9378
  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, Malus.2184 said:

ANet have made no nerfs, just mechanical cahnges, the issue is that the current mechanics are still bad.

Went to LFG for DE and there's not alot of people wanting to do this event.  One commander put up an lfg says "Meta Attempt, New to commanding, could use help"  What are the chances that this will succeed?  What's the point of giving better rewards when you will fail anyways?

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh, it should be totally possible to fail a meta but not because the boss does some stupid random things while you have to draw a number at the Ministry of Paperwork for a time slot to do damage.

I mean, ANet has now implemented a time freeze while the NPCs have a dialogue during the meta? Really, that's the most plausible thing they can think up to make this event more entertaining and rewarding?

Edited by Hollowhisper.1093
  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, pugster.9378 said:

Went to LFG for DE and there's not alot of people wanting to do this event.  One commander put up an lfg says "Meta Attempt, New to commanding, could use help"  What are the chances that this will succeed?  What's the point of giving better rewards when you will fail anyways?

These are the people that need a daily Hero chest awarded for their commitment and their willingness to try against Randomius The Great, regardless of the outcome.

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

2. Killing the tail removes a tiny portion of health from Soo-won. It makes no sense that an important part of her body is smacked around and she feels nothing from it.

I've thought this as well.  People can wail away on a toenail and do dps but not that huge tail.  What's that all about.

  • Like 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Both the HP and Breakbar numbers need to be cut in half.  The event is just not fun.  It takes too long, it doesn't give good rewards, and the potential to fail is WAY too high for an open world event.  If it gave amazing rewards, or if it was shorter, or if chance of failure were lower...change any of those things, you would have a better event.

 

At this point all I'm doing is farming events to get my turtle and then I'll never do that event again.

  • Like 10
  • Thanks 2
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, pugster.9378 said:

Went to LFG for DE and there's not alot of people wanting to do this event.  One commander put up an lfg says "Meta Attempt, New to commanding, could use help"  What are the chances that this will succeed?  What's the point of giving better rewards when you will fail anyways?

 

15 minutes ago, Hollowhisper.1093 said:

These are the people that need a daily Hero chest awarded for their commitment and their willingness to try against Randomius The Great, regardless of the outcome.

Nah, the real reason this meta is so widely detained from is explained in the Zone of Proximal Control (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zone_of_proximal_development). As it currently stand no reward can ever make the risk worth it since you can fail even with you doing everything correct.

20 minutes ago, Hollowhisper.1093 said:

Oh, it should be totally possible to fail a meta but not because the boss does some stupid random things while you have to draw a number at the Ministry of Paperwork for a time slot to do damage.

I mean, ANet has now implemented a time freeze while the NPCs have a dialogue during the meta? Really, that's the most plausible thing they can think up to make this event more entertaining and rewarding?

Yeah, I've nothing against failing, however, I want to fail because I failed to put in proper effort, that way I can improve. If I fail because of arbitrary reasons outside of my control I'm unable to improve and I simply have no desire to ever do the meta again.

Edited by Malus.2184
  • Like 4
  • Thanks 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Hollowhisper.1093 said:

Yeah, we had the ZPC elsewhere and it's an interesting concept measured against the group content of a game. Fascinating stuff.

I know, I posted it 😛 It was in the "This is the line in the sand" thread.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

The issue is that with just a little above average playing you can still fail DE due to RNG. I tried it last night to test out how the change affected things. We got ONE Break Bar, the rest were tails or moving. We failed it at 3%. Two things need to change for DE. What's required to do DE consistently is WAY above what any other meta requires in the game. Requiring a little more is fine, people can handle that. People just get frustrated if there is a higher requirement than they can so. This can be seen in the EU LFG where DE meta groups have largely vanished since it's simply too frustrating.

1. None of the RNG stuff can repeat before they've all been used and no stuff will appear twice in a row. The order of the tail, movement, and Break Bar can be RNG, however, you always get a cycle of the three and back-to-back is impossible. This will keep the sequence to RNG while also making it predictable.

2. Killing the tail removes a tiny portion of health from Soo-won. It makes no sense that an important part of her body is smacked around and she feels nothing from it.

Please don't type your texts in a third party program making it all black (and thus unreadable with the dark forums theme activated) and the font size tiny.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

Please don't type your texts in a third party program making it all black (and thus unreadable with the dark forums theme activated) and the font size tiny.

I typed this out on the forum with the text editing software here. So it has to be a error on your end. Start initially assuming the  is error is on your side instead of immediatly making a condescending post where you essentially blame another person for errors on your side.

  • Like 1
  • Confused 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

We failed it at 3%.

The fact that this is basically end of the line says it all.  2 hours later.  New group.  New problems.  The antithesis of progression.

Just put the kitten boss on the top of the stupid tower and let people bash at her until she's dead.  Make her hard to kill.  Really hard.  People will happily go at it as long as it's not futile and insulting like what we have currently.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would say a big problem I notice during the Meta is Whirlpools.

 

A. They take way too long to kill you keeping you out of the fight for a long while

B. Unlike Bubbles there is no chance of being freed as the Break Bar is to high for anyone to actually free you.

 

I still haven't learned how to dodge the Whirlpools, but I'm trying to learn.

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Hollowhisper.1093 said:

ANet should just get rid of the two bosses on the platforms. They are just an out-of-context time sink that make people fly around and do Batman things. It's nice to see but in my view this phase's dramaturgy does nothing to enhance the event.

Or they can remove tail rng and all the stupid animations soo won does which waste lot of time. Or they can simply increase the timer by few minutes. Even that would be great help. 

Edited by Mickey.4207
  • Like 7
  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder what would happen if ArenaNet invested in UX Designers? 

Because I guarantee you that if they did,  they wouldn't have this mess of an event make it to release.

EDIT: I don't know why you'd be confused at this statement, I can only attribute it to you being literally confused.

Edited by Obliviscaris.6937
Confused is not a down-vote, but continue, shill.
  • Like 4
  • Confused 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Xerxez.7361 said:

I would say a big problem I notice during the Meta is Whirlpools.

 

A. They take way too long to kill you keeping you out of the fight for a long while

B. Unlike Bubbles there is no chance of being freed as the Break Bar is to high for anyone to actually free you.

 

I still haven't learned how to dodge the Whirlpools, but I'm trying to learn.

Any mechanic that incentivizes letting it kill you because breaking you out takes too much effort is a bad mechanic and should honestly be removed from the game. Bubbles are at least fair, like you said. But whirlpool is an automatic death sentence, and it takes way too much time to have to fly back in. Especially if you don't have a griffon.

 

-

 

As for the breakbar mechanic like OP mentioned, the run I was just on had a single breakbar... at 82% so it was worthless and couldn't have even been broken before phase. She didn't do the preceding acid breath a single time after that until the last 15 seconds of the timer.

 

Personally, encounters that require RNG mechanics to artificially make them challenging simply shouldn't exist. It seems like by design, these encounters succeed or fail independently of how well you play.

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Inari Kamihara.6908 said:

Any mechanic that incentivizes letting it kill you because breaking you out takes too much effort is a bad mechanic and should honestly be removed from the game. Bubbles are at least fair, like you said. But whirlpool is an automatic death sentence, and it takes way too much time to have to fly back in. Especially if you don't have a griffon.

-

 

Personally, encounters that require RNG mechanics to artificially make them challenging simply shouldn't exist. It seems like by design, these encounters succeed or fail independently of how well you play.

There are many bad mechanics in this fight. The whirlpools' excessive Break Bar means that everyone needs to have the EMP in order to do enough AoE Defiance damage to break people out. The same with the Thornhearts, it's faster to just kill themn than to even attempt mesing with their Break Bar since in the same time span iot takes to remove 20% they've lost 50% health.

From a ludonarrative point of view a mechanic such as the tail makes no sense either. Due to it being completely mechanically seperate from Soo-Won despite being physically a part of her, it's mechanically an add she summons that protects her while alive. Then make an add that does that!

And to protect against bad RNG you have to engage in stupid amounts of preparation. The squad has to be made into sub-units that all have Alac, Might, and Quick. Everyone has to have food and utility buffs. And for good measure bring United Legion Waystations. Even raids have less extreme measures of preparation. Oh, and everyone have to play well. When I did it it was with a squad of 50 seasoned raiders all on Discord where all the above prep was made. We had just about 3 minutes left on the timer after having to do extreme stuff. A unoptimal group like the former should be able to finish it with three minutes to spare while the optimal group had a lot more time left.

I could understand if it was merely a matter of performing well, no slacking, etc. That should be the expexted and would be in line with an improved version of what the other metas in EoD pr the ZPD. Right now a group like that will fail due to the RNG.

I would rather do Harvest Temple with a 9/10 players who'd never done it before than DE again. That's how badly designed I find DE to be.

Edited by Malus.2184
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Xerxez.7361 said:

I would say a big problem I notice during the Meta is Whirlpools.

 

A. They take way too long to kill you keeping you out of the fight for a long while

B. Unlike Bubbles there is no chance of being freed as the Break Bar is to high for anyone to actually free you.

 

I still haven't learned how to dodge the Whirlpools, but I'm trying to learn.

This! The whirlpool needs to be reworked because it's currently not worth breaking people out of it with the amount of CC it requires. If they rework the Whirlpool and modify the RNG of the attacks a bit it should be perfect.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

About kitten time

  • Updated the defiance bar mechanic of the final encounter in the Battle for the Jade Sea meta-event to be more consistent and not reliant on chance. This change should ensure more opportunities for players to engage with the defiance bar mechanic and allow for additional damage phases.
  • Reduced the amount of control effects needed to break the defiance bar of whirlpools in the final boss encounter of the "Battle for the Jade Sea" meta-event.

The encounter might be enjoyable now.

Edited by Malus.2184
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Malus.2184 said:

The encounter might be enjoyable now.

 

Both of those are huge. I have some guesses why the first change took a while, tangled spaghetti and all that. Adjusting an absolutely laughably large defiance bar could (should...) have been done in the first hotfix since everyone know about it by then.

In general I wonder whether Anet somehow managed to make it more complicated than it should be to adjust simple number values. I'd actually be interested to know what the ideas to handle these things are.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...