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Dear Anet: Condi gear prices are out of control


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9 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Which materials are you referring? People complain about the materials being too expensive but they are apparently not expensive enough to convince people to go gather them.

Black Diamonds for viper's are already based on doing events.

Watchwork Sprockets can be obtained with gathering tools. Also doing events via map bonus but that is probably not a good source.

 

According to Gw2efficiency, it currently costs 10g 25 silver to craft a piece of exotic Vipers armour (though that assumes you can buy the oiled lining/panel which in practice I've found fairly hard to do.  For some reason they sell for less then the craft price, and nobody seems to sell them, why they haven't gone up to the craft price I have no idea.   So more realistically, you'd have to craft them and it would cost 11g 76 silver).    That's not unmanageable, but its definitely not what you'd want to do for trying out a condi build for fun or to make for multiple characters.

 

According to the breakdown, most of the cost comes from 10x Cured Hardened Leather Square, Black Diamonds, and 150 Flax seeds.   People are obviously gathering them, but they're still pretty rare drops hence the high price, and you need quite alot of them.

 

 

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I just did the math on typical "top shelf" exotic power gear (zerker & scholar runes) vs. condi (viper's & torment runes).  I chose those because they're each the gear required/expected for th

You don't need to use tormenting runes though. Nightmare runes are run on mirages , renegades, scourges and harbinger DPS ; elementalist rune on elementalists and cDPS mechanist ; balthazar rune on fi

get  legendary fix all your problems  

On 3/21/2022 at 7:38 AM, GoldenPants.1870 said:

Because that would give you 0 cost condi gear.

No it doesn't... that's completely asinine. If you have to farm airship parts (or whatever other currency) it's NOT zero cost.  Every currency in the game is the same: it's just a representation of your time.

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On 3/20/2022 at 9:01 PM, mythical.6315 said:

You're wrong.  Lunatic armor sets are relatively comparable for those that have unlocked the recipe

 

Yeah that last part is exactly why I'm not wrong.  You have to have the recipes. if you don't have them you have to farm them, which is not only tedious and time consuming, but only possible during a seasonal festival.

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16 hours ago, Debesyla.7102 said:

Dunno why are y'all so sad, just use stat selectable gear like the one you get for playing WvW or open world metas like Verdant Brink 😬

Seriously. I can't remember the last time I had to buy/craft 4 stat gear lol. Farming a full set of armor in Verdant Brink doesn't take very long at all, especially if you coincide it with T4 metas where you get a free armor box as a reward.

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14 minutes ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

Yeah that last part is exactly why I'm not wrong.  You have to have the recipes. if you don't have them you have to farm them, which is not only tedious and time consuming, but only possible during a seasonal festival.

So 2 candy corn cob for the chest recipe and 1 for the rest is tedious and time consuming? 

Edited by mythical.6315
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2 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

So 2 candy corn cob for the chest recipe and 1 for the rest is tedious and time consuming? 

You apparently missed the part where I pointed out that, if you don't have the recipes, you have to wait at least half a year.  So... More time-consuming and tedious than farming the pittance of gold necessary to buy zerker?  How is that not completely obvious?

And by the way, I don't like the Halloween content.  In the 9 years I've been playing, I've obtained exactly two corn cobs.  So, yeah, extremely tedious and time consuming.

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8 minutes ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

You apparently missed the part where I pointed out that, if you don't have the recipes, you have to wait at least half a year.  So... More time-consuming and tedious than farming the pittance of gold necessary to buy zerker?  How is that not completely obvious?

And by the way, I don't like the Halloween content.  In the 9 years I've been playing, I've obtained exactly two corn cobs.  So, yeah, extremely tedious and time consuming.

No. This is you walking back what you said.  Below is what you said:

“You have to have the recipes. if you don't have them you have to farm them, which is not only tedious and time consuming, but only possible during a seasonal festival.”

Take note of the particular word I bolded and where it falls within what you said. You are clearly treating farming them and their availability as two separate things with the tedious and time consuming bit referring to the former. 

Candy corn cobs can be bought off the TP. You should check that out but I believe you’re well aware of that.

Edited by mythical.6315
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17 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

No. This is you walking back what you said.  Below is what you said:

 

I don't even know what you're trying to say, but I'm not walking anything back.  The point is you can't get them now.  You have to wait 6+ months.  So yeah,  that's pretty time consuming, and the having to wait that long would be pretty tedious. 

And even if you could get them now, it still doesn't compare to buying zerker with gold--the recipes alone cost about 4x more than zerker armor (plus as has been said, you can also get the zerker armor for karma, another ubiquitous currency that you likely have lying around).  And it doesn't help at all with the trinkets.  The selling price of a zerker amulet is just over 2g (if you buy the ruby separately), and a viper's is 7g 55s (buying the amulet and diamond separately is not an option).  Rings and accessories are slightly closer, but similar. I didn't look at buy prices but it's a reasonable guess that the gap is larger due to the ready availability of zerker. So even going this route--which is not currently available to I'm guessing the majority of the player base--the viper's is still ~3x more expensive (and again, expensive doesn't mean specifically gold, it means total player effort--though in this case it is indeed gold).

And then there's the matter of whether players trying to gear a condi toon even know about this option.  I bet most don't.

 

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11 hours ago, Bladezephyr.5714 said:

No it doesn't... that's completely asinine. If you have to farm airship parts (or whatever other currency) it's NOT zero cost.  Every currency in the game is the same: it's just a representation of your time.

But you were complaining about gold, not about time. So, it would still be 0 ish gold cost, with more time invested.

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13 hours ago, GoldenPants.1870 said:

But you were complaining about gold, not about time. So, it would still be 0 ish gold cost, with more time invested.

Bur that time could have been spent farming gold.

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If you need all this fancy meta gear, then you're going to make it back and more within a week or two. If you don't, then why bother?

You're not going to explode just because you have a few rabid/carrion pieces and a +20% specific duration sigil + specific duration food instead of viper's

Armor contributes the least stats other than backpiece, and is also the most expensive.  And that's probably best saved for ascended gear anyways to min-max.

Also yea, prices are gonna be weird at the start of an expansion when people are following fads. Expansion's not even out for a month; could we not panic so fast?

There's always going to be a massive premium on the last 10% of damage, and so it happens condi is dominant atm. And no you're not failing content because you're missing that damage.

Btw you can craft the ascended version of Viper + tormenting runes for 308g:

https://gw2efficiency.com/crafting/calculator/a~0!b~1!c~0!d~1-74357;1-72259;1-76710;1-75626;1-70641;1-73854;6-44956

If you want to assume we have to stat change because we lack hot mats, and buy the tormenting runes add like 50g.

Soo..... if you're spending 200 g+ on an exotic set, well, that's why you don't have any gold. I honestly wouldn't even spend 50. You guys know of the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Named_armor

?

edit: Also which meta medium condi builds even use tormenting runes?  According to Snowcrows, Soulbeast uses Krait, Mechanist uses Elementalist,  Daredevil uses Afflicted.  It's just spectre.

Edited by ArchonWing.9480
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On 3/25/2022 at 5:29 AM, LucianDK.8615 said:

You guys know you can change stats on ascended weapons and armor?

but that takes time! and time is money! and it still takes materials!!! or something..

10 hours ago, DarcShriek.5829 said:

I've made lots of ascended armor that I don't have recipes for.  I make something else and then change it in the mystic forge.  It's easy to change the stats on ascended armor.

In the case of viper's the recipes are pretty cheap. Cheaper than core stat even.

I think OP would have a heart attack if they had to craft Commander's gear. I guess Power/support gear is even more out of control ...

Price for exotic viper's medium boots: a bit under 19g

Price for exotic commander's medium boot *recipe*: 30g

13 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

If you need all this fancy meta gear, then you're going to make it back and more within a week or two. If you don't, then why bother?

The hilarious part about this is that the quoted price includes a rune for underwater. I am not aware of any popular underwater content that would require meta gear

13 hours ago, ArchonWing.9480 said:

Soo..... if you're spending 200 g+ on an exotic set, well, that's why you don't have any gold. I honestly wouldn't even spend 50. You guys know of the https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Named_armor

According to OP it doesn't count as condi gear unless it has expertise. Even though it is possible to get 50% duration from runes, 20% from sigil, another 10% from sigil, possibly 20% from trait.

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2 hours ago, DianTheJoker.4372 said:

For the time that OP answered every opinion/advice in the thread, while making bellow average attempts at economy analysis , they could`ve farmed full set of viper's and then some...

Tuesday March 29, exposed is going to be nerfed so condi might fall out of favor a bit.

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It still boggles my mind that people complain about gear acquisition in 2022, considering how the whole acquisition thing has been streamlined throughout the years to the point you can spend virtually 0 gold for a full set of any kind of exotic or ascended gear. But, god forbid, you need to actually farm play and invest few days to acquire stuff, in a game where gear is like literally the only relevant thing you have to pay for. Mind boggling.

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34 minutes ago, Kondor.2904 said:

It still boggles my mind that people complain about gear acquisition in 2022, considering how the whole acquisition thing has been streamlined throughout the years to the point you can spend virtually 0 gold for a full set of any kind of exotic or ascended gear. But, god forbid, you need to actually farm play and invest few days to acquire stuff, in a game where gear is like literally the only relevant thing you have to pay for. Mind boggling.

Well, this is what the commercialization and the "hunt" for players did to gaming overall.
More and more soft souls that have several dollars, that the companies want to extract, entered the gaming world and in order to profit the companies dumbed down everything to "click here and enter end game" approach. Almost all games do that nowadays and this made the "new wave" of gamers whatever they are now in terms of goals and incentive.
I know gaming is a form of escapism from the RL, but I still can't believe ppl think that they deserve something, just because...
Complaining about price of mats and the "NEED" to actually play several hours to gear your character with ENDGAME gear, that you will never touch from now on is indeed mind boggling... I guess OP or the other anathematizing repliers never played BDO or haven't tried Lost Ark yet...

To have a problem with the cost of things in a game where you literally need 5 hours tops(assuming you get 30g/h, which is not optimal) to gear your character and never touch that gear again is like drowning little kittens in a bottle cap.

 

If you care that much and dive deep into the cost of the mentioned gear, why didn't you invest that time in researching how to make sick amount of gold and never be bothered again about such minor topics? Oh, wait... Its research and research is time, which equals money, which equals ingame gold, thus making achieving something actually a net negative experience... Duh...

 

I know, I know - now OP will mention the "new players"... Which is totally irrelevant. Do you think absolutely new player care about gear, stats and cost? No. They are clueless lambs and by the time they start to actually think about raid gear(viper's), they will have mats and gold for at least 4 sets if they used the "Deposit all" button several times.

 

Finally, yes - people here gave very helpful advices about alternative gear and such, but the people complaining about a 30g cost then complained about a 30 minutes "farm"(this is embarrassing even to type). I mean... C'mon.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

The hilarious part about this is that the quoted price includes a rune for underwater. I am not aware of any popular underwater content that would require meta gear

What? You don't see all those Aquatic fractal CM "full ascended aquabreather + legendary rune + legendary underwater weapon?" lfg

You know, I would love them to fix underwater combat but until then....

I mean in all fairness, I have only 1 legendary rune and I do happen to use it for my breather; it was mostly a joke though sometimes I found it annoying in WvW underwater.

But I think most people would rightfully think that I am being pretty silly and most people should not get 7 expensive runes.

I make a lot of bad decisions, but I usually don't ask for the game to change because of them. ;)

2 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

According to OP it doesn't count as condi gear unless it has expertise. Even though it is possible to get 50% duration from runes, 20% from sigil, another 10% from sigil, possibly 20% from trait.

It's precisely because of that the shewd buyer will end up with ascended  gear before OP.

Also people, don't get deceived by the price listed. With these niche items, the price is more flexible and usually you save a few gold per piece by using the buy order. Just place some orders, have a few silly discussions like this one, and by the time you get back in game the armor is most likely yours.

Yes, I gave you all a reason to post here.

What would really  make the OP flip is that medium zerker armor  only costs 5g total (Nika set). So if you found a good alternative to the somewhat overpriced scholar rune like say eagle runes, you spend an extra 4 gold. For a total of 9 gold.

And of course the unthinkable. Use said cheap zerker armor to farm for ascended condi, for maximum efficiency.

It's very probable you will have legendaries or geared like 10 characters in exotics while someone that believed OP is still going broke over their first set of exotics. Don't do that.

Edited by ArchonWing.9480
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On 3/25/2022 at 9:28 AM, GoldenPants.1870 said:

But you were complaining about gold, not about time. So, it would still be 0 ish gold cost, with more time invested.

No, I was complaining about the relative cost of very good end-game condi gear compared to the same tier of power gear.  The cost is always your time.  I've said this half a dozen times throughout the thread, if you cared to actually read it.

 

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Posted (edited)
On 3/26/2022 at 2:21 PM, DianTheJoker.4372 said:


Complaining about price of mats and the "NEED" to actually play several hours to gear your character with ENDGAME gear, that you will never touch from now on is indeed mind boggling... I guess OP or the other anathematizing repliers never played BDO or haven't tried Lost Ark yet...

 

That's not even remotely what I'm complaining about, which you would know if you actually bothered to read literally anything I said. The issue is, and has always been, that the cost is VASTLY DIFFERENT for condi vs. power, for the same tier of gear (in terms of DPS output). It is not now, nor ever has been, what the cost is.  It's the vast difference between the two for approximately the same level of performance. Not any other thing.  There simply is no good reason why it should be this way.

 

On 3/26/2022 at 2:21 PM, DianTheJoker.4372 said:

To have a problem with the cost of things in a game where you literally need 5 hours tops(assuming you get 30g/h, which is not optimal) to gear your character and never touch that gear again is like drowning little kittens in a bottle cap.

Let me spell this out for you:

  1. Start with a brand new account
  2. level your first toon to 80
  3. Level the elite spec of your choice
  4. Gear your toon in a meta-appropriate exotic set, so that you can start doing raids.

If you are an experienced MMO player and did not waste what you earned along the way, chances are you can buy a full set (not 6 armor pieces, all 16 on-land gear slots) with what you have earned already by that point, or with only a minimum of farming.  If you're trying to gear the equivalent condi spec (which is vipers), there is zero chance of that, unless you spent a whole bunch of extra time just farming gold.  The barrier to enter is far greater.  Yes, you can settle for a sub-par set to get going, but there's no need for you to do that if you play power instead. So why should you have to do it for the same performance from a condi spec?

And as I've said about 6 times in this thread, when I say cost I don't mean gold.  I mean the total effort it takes you to get whatever currency you're going to use for your chosen method of gearing your toon.

And, as I've also said twice in this thread, yes, the same applies for support specs.

This scenario does not only apply to new players. It basically applies to any player who is starting out with end-game content, or who is trying to gear a toon from broke.  It also applies to experienced players who have exhausted their resources by, for example, spending them to craft their first legendary weapon.  It applies to any player who, for whatever reason, has no liquid resources at the moment they want to gear a new toon.  Any such player will need 3x as much farming to gear a condi toon, however long it takes them.  Because there is no comparable option to just buying zerker off the TP.

I also think your farming numbers are completely unrealistic.  Achievable for very good farmers, but not even close to what a typical player will pull down, unless they're already basically expert at end-game content... and clearly those players are not concerned with this, like pretty much everyone dumping on this thread.  This thread isn't about you.

Can you do raids in rampagers? Of course you can.  But if you were running a power build, would you settle for soldier's?  You can do raids in that too.

Can you do raids in yellows, or even blues?  Sure you can... if you're good enough.  But why would you, unless it was to show off.

Between the difficulty jump and the addition of mechanics generally not seen in open world (until recently, anyway) most players starting raids need every advantage they can get, and the player base in general considers exotic the entry level gear for doing raids, or pretty much any end-game content (save fractals).  So getting that, for whatever spec you want to play, should not be painful. At the very least, gearing one spec well should not be vastly more expensive than gearing any other well.  Doesn't mean they have to cost exactly the same, but there's no reason any viable end-game spec should cost 3x (or 5x) as much as any other. Farm the daylights out of whatever content you want to get ascended or legendary... that's what is actual end-game gear, and what should be expensive, and it is, and that's totally fine.  But BTW, ascended zerker and ascended viper's cost almost the same... as they basically should.

https://gw2efficiency.com/crafting/ascended?filter.type=0&filter.subtype=Coat&filter.weight_class=medium

Zojja's chest: ~47g 87s
Yassith's chest: ~47g 91s
So to whomever said you should craft zojja's and stat-swap it to viper, sorry, that's wrong.  You'll pay a lot more if you do that.  Try zintl (shaman's) instead, or something like that.

Lastly, for whomever said it, I type pretty fast and I know what I want to say, so the amount of time I spent on this thread is nowhere near what I would've spent to gear a toon in viper's. 😏  But regardless, they're two different kinds of activities that have an entirely different appeal.  And this is something else that you all don't get:  time spent doing one activity is not equivalent to time spent doing another activity.  If doing EoD strikes is fun, and farming VB for hours to get some gear that you need to do strikes in EoD is not, for the person doing it, then the cost of the latter is way higher than the cost of the former.  Good news for power players--doesn't matter what you do in the game, it will still be very easy for you to gear your power toon, because everything in the game gives you gold, and gold is the cheapest way to get zerker gear.  Whereas if you're playing condi DPS, your options for getting similarly-performing gear (vipers) are far, far more limited.  Don't happen to like doing VB metas?  You're SoL. Grind m0ar, n00b.

Edited by Bladezephyr.5714
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Posted (edited)
On 3/26/2022 at 3:33 PM, ArchonWing.9480 said:
On 3/26/2022 at 1:06 PM, Khisanth.2948 said:

According to OP it doesn't count as condi gear unless it has expertise. Even though it is possible to get 50% duration from runes, 20% from sigil, another 10% from sigil, possibly 20% from trait.

It's precisely because of that the shewd buyer will end up with ascended  gear before OP.

No.  I've never bought a full set of viper's exotic, because it's very obviously dumb to do that. I do have multiple full sets of viper's ascended.  But this is exactly the problem--if the game makes it totally insane for you not to skip a tier of gear because the cost is too high, something is wrong with the game.  For condi that's true, for power it's not.  And this only makes it harder, not easier, for people trying to gear a condi spec to get adequate gear, particularly in comparison to power (zerker).

Edited by Bladezephyr.5714
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Posted (edited)
On 3/26/2022 at 2:21 PM, DianTheJoker.4372 said:

I know, I know - now OP will mention the "new players"... Which is totally irrelevant. Do you think absolutely new player care about gear, stats and cost? No. They are clueless lambs and by the time they start to actually think about raid gear(viper's), they will have mats and gold for at least 4 sets if they used the "Deposit all" button several times.

This is a total garbage take. 

  1. Not all new players are without skill, not all new players are casuals, not all new players are morons.  Stop being so condescending.  The player base is diverse, both in terms of skill and in terms of what they want to get out of the game, and therefore also when they are ready to tackle end game content.  I myself am fairly average, probably on the high side of average, but I have geared my toons in exotic zerker since the moment I hit 80 9 years ago, and avoided condi gear for exactly this reason, for the first 7 years I played the game.  I still tend to favor power builds, again exactly for this reason, because I don't enjoy farming any content repetitively, and I just want to play the game.  There's tons to do in the game, and virtually all of it will get you closer to getting a full set of zerker, way faster than it will get you to a full set of viper's. The performance is about the same, so there's no sensible reason for that.
  2. As I said a couple posts ago, this doesn't only impact new players.  It affects anyone who, for whatever reason, wants to gear a condi toon when they have no resources to start with.
  3. Even if you can do content in rampagers, why would you want to?  Particularly for experienced players, who are accustomed to doing content in zerker on glassy DPS builds, if for whatever reason you have no resources at the time you're ready to gear your condi spec, you're gonna want viper's, and you're gonna take 3x as long to get it as you would to get your zerker off the TP.  Rampagers is a step down from viper's, and it's a step down from zerker.  Downgrading because you can't afford the same tier you could afford if you were playing power is frustrating.  It considerably increases Time-To-Kill and makes everything way less efficient. That's not fun.
Edited by Bladezephyr.5714
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