Mmmmm Anet lovs them sum Holosmiths boi

[TheDevice.2751]

If its not clear to you by this patch.. it never will

Power Reaper got a net boost of roughy 10% more damage (due to them also NERFING shroud)

Holossmith... BUFFS ALL AROUND! WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

holy shit man this game lol. You can't make this stuff up. Its real life bro.

People were actually complaining holosmiths may be too strong. So of course they get buffs. (as you do. Thats the logical thing to do)People been PRAYING that reapers get some buffs. They get buffs.... AND nerfs.

Oh anet. You do you bb gurl. You got this. XDDD

[Malafaia.8903]

Lol, i can see the waves of salt in your post, but you have a point.Holosmiths clearly was in a good place, could even use a nerf or another on stability and what's up? GET SOME POWAHHHHH

[Reaper Alim.4176]

@Malafaia.8903 said:Lol, i can see the waves of salt in your post, but you have a point.Holosmiths clearly was in a good place, could even use a nerf or another on stability and what's up? GET SOME POWAHHHHH

Holosmiths be like

[Flauvious.6195]

With all the heat on scourge and spellbreakers I was already thinking about how holosmith was quietly op as hell, figured they'd be top tier simply from the other 2 getting nerfed.. and not only did they not get nerfed, they got buffed. And of a the things... damage? Seriously? Was the ability to burst you down in under 2 seconds not enough already?

[Falan.1839]

How are the buffs on Holosmith even relevant. :D Sword is still useless, Healing Turret is still the better heal. The Blast Finisher on Holo 5 really doesn't add anything, since there is tons of Leaps and Blasts already for 2 Water Fields (also nobody will blow away 25% Heat for a Blast). Otherwise the only thing changed is that dodge with Vent Exhaust does 800 instead of 300 dmg, such wow, much op. Oh yeah and, Holo 4 is 20% projectile now, awesome pawsome.

All they did was slightly buff useless stuff that nobody uses. Otherwise it's unchanged.

[Vagrant.7206]

ROFL.

So much salt!

Did you guys even read what got buffed? Mostly just sword, which very few engineers will use in PvP anyway. The sword changes are primarily intended for PvE purposes, as bomb autoattack was better than sword until this patch.

The rest of the "buffs" were added finishers/fields to skills that should have had them in the first place, and cauterize got a better condi removal, making coolant blast arguably competitive against healing turret.

[Razor.6392]

@Vagrant.7206 said:ROFL.

So much salt!

Did you guys even read what got buffed? Mostly just sword, which very few engineers will use in PvP anyway. The sword changes are primarily intended for PvE purposes, as bomb autoattack was better than sword until this patch.

The rest of the "buffs" were added finishers/fields to skills that should have had them in the first place, and cauterize got a better condi removal, making coolant blast arguably competitive against healing turret.

It's not whether the buffs suck or not, it's the fact that holo actually needed nerfs, especially after SB gets toned down.

Yes it dies to scourge, everybody does at melee.

[Chaith.8256]

Only relevant Holosmith changes in PvP: Vent Exhaust does a bit more dmg and a bit less burn, Holo Shockwave blasts and Photon Blitz got some chance to projectile finisher...

Holosmith still A tier and Scourge/Firebrand are still S tier.. They really needed to reduce FB support, that would have also been an indirect nerf to Scourge.

Holosmith changes were meaningless i couldn't care less if they didn't change anything, from a PvP perspective. Everything else they buffed is still bad.

[Vagrant.7206]

@Razor.6392 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:ROFL.

So much salt!

Did you guys even read what got buffed? Mostly just sword, which very few engineers will use in PvP anyway. The sword changes are primarily intended for PvE purposes, as bomb autoattack was better than sword until this patch.

The rest of the "buffs" were added finishers/fields to skills that should have had them in the first place, and cauterize got a better condi removal, making coolant blast arguably competitive against healing turret.

It's not whether the buffs suck or not, it's the fact that holo actually needed nerfs, especially after SB gets toned down.

Yes it dies to scourge, everybody does at melee.

What I'm hearing you say:

• "Holosmith should suck more in PvE."
• "Holosmith should not be internally consistent with the rest of the profession's mechanics."

Most of the buffs to holosmith do not affect PvP except in specific cases. If you want to whine about holosmith buffs, go to the PvE forum.

[Hanth.2978]

Holo did not get the buffs that the OP is crying about, the changes effect pve way more than pvp/wvw. It's nice that we don't have to camp bomb kit though, sword seems to be our new auto which is nice. With pvp yes, we still get shredded by scourges and mesmers and spell's/FB's still give us a tough fight. All in all, we are not S tier but A tier.

[ZhouX.8742]

@TheDevice.2751 said:If its not clear to you by this patch.. it never will

Power Reaper got a net boost of roughy 10% more damage (due to them also NERFING shroud)

Holossmith... BUFFS ALL AROUND! WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

holy kitten man this game lol. You can't make this stuff up. Its real life bro.

People were actually complaining holosmiths may be too strong. So of course they get buffs. (as you do. Thats the logical thing to do)People been PRAYING that reapers get some buffs. They get buffs.... AND nerfs.

Oh anet. You do you bb gurl. You got this. XDDD

Holo still can't beat and either dies or stalemates to bunker druid / condi mirage far and is countered by scourge still. Holo with these buffs, nothing has changed - more damage yes but still the same exact role pre-patch.

[Razor.6392]

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:ROFL.

So much salt!

Did you guys even read what got buffed? Mostly just sword, which very few engineers will use in PvP anyway. The sword changes are primarily intended for PvE purposes, as bomb autoattack was better than sword until this patch.

The rest of the "buffs" were added finishers/fields to skills that should have had them in the first place, and cauterize got a better condi removal, making coolant blast arguably competitive against healing turret.

It's not whether the buffs suck or not, it's the fact that holo actually needed nerfs, especially after SB gets toned down.

Yes it dies to scourge, everybody does at melee.

What I'm hearing you say:

• "Holosmith should suck more in PvE."
• "Holosmith should not be internally consistent with the rest of the profession's mechanics."

Most of the buffs to holosmith do not affect PvP

except in specific cases

. If you want to whine about holosmith buffs, go to the PvE forum.

Sure not having stab for free on corona burst would render holo UNPLAYABLE in pve, right? No one uses holo leap in pve because its a dps loss. Yet it's extremely oppressive in pvp.

I'm not sure you even know what you're talking about.

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

@Razor.6392 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:ROFL.

So much salt!

Did you guys even read what got buffed? Mostly just sword, which very few engineers will use in PvP anyway. The sword changes are primarily intended for PvE purposes, as bomb autoattack was better than sword until this patch.

The rest of the "buffs" were added finishers/fields to skills that should have had them in the first place, and cauterize got a better condi removal, making coolant blast arguably competitive against healing turret.

It's not whether the buffs suck or not, it's the fact that holo actually needed nerfs, especially after SB gets toned down.

Yes it dies to scourge, everybody does at melee.

What I'm hearing you say:

• "Holosmith should suck more in PvE."
• "Holosmith should not be internally consistent with the rest of the profession's mechanics."

Most of the buffs to holosmith do not affect PvP

except in specific cases

. If you want to whine about holosmith buffs, go to the PvE forum.

Sure not having stab for free on corona burst would render holo UNPLAYABLE in pve, right?

It would be painful for both PvE and PvP. Melee range specs tend to need stability, unless they have spammable blind and interrupt or something.

No one uses holo leap in pve because its a dps loss. Yet it's extremely oppressive in pvp.

I'm not sure you even know what you're talking about.

What does holo leap have to do with anything? Are you seriously whining about holosmiths getting half a second more swiftness?

[Amadeus.5687]

@Razor.6392 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:ROFL.

So much salt!

Did you guys even read what got buffed? Mostly just sword, which very few engineers will use in PvP anyway. The sword changes are primarily intended for PvE purposes, as bomb autoattack was better than sword until this patch.

The rest of the "buffs" were added finishers/fields to skills that should have had them in the first place, and cauterize got a better condi removal, making coolant blast arguably competitive against healing turret.

It's not whether the buffs suck or not, it's the fact that holo actually needed nerfs, especially after SB gets toned down.

Yes it dies to scourge, everybody does at melee.

What I'm hearing you say:

• "Holosmith should suck more in PvE."
• "Holosmith should not be internally consistent with the rest of the profession's mechanics."

Most of the buffs to holosmith do not affect PvP

except in specific cases

. If you want to whine about holosmith buffs, go to the PvE forum.

Sure not having stab for free on corona burst would render holo UNPLAYABLE in pve, right? No one uses holo leap in pve because its a dps loss. Yet it's extremely oppressive in pvp.

I'm not sure you even know what you're talking about.

But... its not for free? its a trait we gotta pick? its even a trait in a line where the two other options are really good? Also Holosmith does in no way have to much stability... We are talking 1 stack on burst first attack, followed by another on the second attack. each stack ast for 3 seconds and it can only be used while in photon forge.

Holosmith is a melee glass cannon, with no acces to evade frames and no room to field the blocks we have acces to. We have no instant cast in and out buttons like a mesmer, thief or guardian, nor do we have any acces to resitance like a warriorThe entire holosmith design, while fun and with good numbers, is a design that leaves us with limited options in what we actually can bring.

Engineer in its core, brings very little stability, you can get a bit from toss elixir B and from the FT trait juggernaut which no one uses. Both options dont work, hence holosmiths arr pretty much forced into the trait that gives it.Without stability we will be shut down by any CC heavy spec worth its grain.

There is plenty other flaws we coild discuss, but plenty of it on engineer forums and im a on mobile device! But another is how we are pretty much forced into use rocket boots. Without it we have limited mobility and will be stuck in immobi, chill and crippels. While rocket boots are amazing and I have used them even before the buffs, it stil very limiting from a design stand point.

Holosmith is not a weak spec, but its not OP either. It comes with some obvious strengths, but also obvious weakness, that makes them easy to shut down for people that know what to do

[Razor.6392]

@Unholy Pillager.3791 said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:

@Razor.6392 said:

@Vagrant.7206 said:ROFL.

So much salt!

Did you guys even read what got buffed? Mostly just sword, which very few engineers will use in PvP anyway. The sword changes are primarily intended for PvE purposes, as bomb autoattack was better than sword until this patch.

The rest of the "buffs" were added finishers/fields to skills that should have had them in the first place, and cauterize got a better condi removal, making coolant blast arguably competitive against healing turret.

It's not whether the buffs suck or not, it's the fact that holo actually needed nerfs, especially after SB gets toned down.

Yes it dies to scourge, everybody does at melee.

What I'm hearing you say:

• "Holosmith should suck more in PvE."
• "Holosmith should not be internally consistent with the rest of the profession's mechanics."

Most of the buffs to holosmith do not affect PvP

except in specific cases

. If you want to whine about holosmith buffs, go to the PvE forum.

Sure not having stab for free on corona burst would render holo UNPLAYABLE in pve, right?

It would be painful for both PvE and PvP. Melee range specs tend to need stability, unless they have spammable blind and interrupt or something.

No one uses holo leap in pve because its a dps loss. Yet it's extremely oppressive in pvp.

I'm not sure you even know what you're talking about.

What does holo leap have to do with anything? Are you seriously whining about holosmiths getting half a second more swiftness?

More stab is always nice in pve, but not a must. If you're really using pve as a reason to not have it nerfed then I could propose at least 10 different scenarios where you get the stab, just not mindlessly after pressing a skill off cd.

On holo leap, I can't believe you people think a 2 second cooldown ability that crits for 5-6k is fine.

Welp, I'm done here. It's clear you guys have zero idea of what is balanced and what isn't.

[Chaith.8256]

@Razor.6392 said:Welp, I'm done here. It's clear you guys have zero idea of what is balanced and what isn't.

What you're doing is ignoring all context of how the build's matchups and usefulness is, and cherry picking one hyperbole to parrot. It's exactly the same thing if I started on about:

"Anyone who thinks thief heartseeker critting 5k and being literally spammable 4 times in a row, they have zero idea of what's balanced and what isn't."

Don't be that guy in August 2012 dying to heartseeker spam, unable to counterpressure or kite.

[Alwayshappy.2549]

Another typical ''omg, I know I play an OP class, but I lost against another class anyway, so that class must be even more OP!'' thread.

[Jackalrat.5493]

@Alwayshappy.2549 said:Another typical ''omg, I know I play an OP class, but I lost against another class anyway, so that class must be even more OP!'' thread.

...You think Reaper is OP? While Scourge, Spellbreaker, and Firebrand are a thing? Who even cares about any class but those 3, honestly. Holosmith can do what it wants for days, I couldn't care less. It's clear those 3 builds, particularly scourge, are universally despised for how broken they are.

[feroxeu.7416]

Its the group of ppl that complain about deadeye just because they see big numbers = op. sad kinda haha

[Razor.6392]

@Chaith.8256 said:

@Razor.6392 said:Welp, I'm done here. It's clear you guys have zero idea of what is balanced and what isn't.

What you're doing is ignoring all context of how the build's matchups and usefulness is, and cherry picking one hyperbole to parrot. It's exactly the same thing if I started on about:

"Anyone who thinks thief heartseeker critting 5k and being literally spammable 4 times in a row, they have zero idea of what's balanced and what isn't."

Don't be that guy in August 2012 dying to heartseeker spam, unable to counterpressure or kite.

I don't think it's like that. It's really simple. Even if an ability is really easy to dodge, kite, you name it. There are very basic balance notions for me that cannot be broken.

Something that has the potential to do so much damage, simply cannot be in such a short cooldown, no matter how 'easy' it is to avoid. By your logic, rock gazelle was fine doing 20k damage since it never landed on moving targets.

[Chaith.8256]

@Razor.6392 said:I don't think it's like that. It's really simple. Even if an ability is really easy to dodge, kite, you name it. There are very basic balance notions for me that cannot be broken.

Something that has the potential to do so much damage, simply cannot be in such a short cooldown, no matter how 'easy' it is to avoid. By your logic, rock gazelle was fine doing 20k damage since it never landed on moving targets.

You're just trying to equate what I think is fine with hotfix-worthy, unintended behavior. Holo leap isn't distinct damage gain over auto-attacking in Forge, it's not even an outlier skill that you've singled out. It simply goes against your 'basic balance notions' for Holosmith to deal high sustained damage while in Forge in exchange for lack of any active defense while being aggressive.

I'm not sad to say that almost everything on Thief also violates your basic balance notions. Yet, spamming unload, heartseeker, high damage rifle skills, all with no cooldown, it's possible for these mechanics to become 'fine', as long as you have sufficient resource limitations, weaknesses to certain counterplay or counterpressure.

[Razor.6392]

Damage wise autoattacking is better of course, but the leap is a leap finisher, gap closer and nuke, also AoE.

Thief is a fine comparison to bring up, but that doesn't mean it's fine to me. I never said that. Always considered Shadow Shot to be ridiculously over the top for what it can do among others. Unlike Engi though, thief does bleed, packs little to no cc, no 25 stacks of might or any stability, has counterplay in many abilities, and doesn't have many skills that are must dodges.

To refuse to dodge or use an invuln on ANY holo skill that isn't shockwave, is to lose upwards of 4-6.5k health. Dude basically spams backstab lmao.

[Chaith.8256]

@Razor.6392 said:Damage wise autoattacking is better of course, but the leap is a leap finisher, gap closer and nuke, also AoE.

Thief is a fine comparison to bring up, but that doesn't mean it's fine to me. I never said that. Always considered Shadow Shot to be ridiculously over the top for what it can do among others. Unlike Engi though, thief does bleed, packs little to no cc, no 25 stacks of might or any stability, has counterplay in many abilities, and doesn't have many skills that are must dodges.

To refuse to dodge or use an invuln on ANY holo skill that isn't shockwave, is to lose upwards of 4-6.5k health. Dude basically spams backstab lmao.

"Unlike Engi, ... thief has counterplay in many abilities." Haha. This statement is worthy of such ridicule, but I'll not list all the numerous abilities/mechanics that Thief has that are not at all dodge-able unlike every Photon Forge ability, or slipping through counterplay. My point is not to point the finger at Thief, my point is that players like the option to play things like Thief and Holo where their damage & offensive utility are relative to how easy it is to counter-pressure them.

You don't like to fight against high damage, easily counter-pressured professions, but as long as they don't trivialize the game's choices or are necessary to win, boo hoo 4 ur feelings, cause logically they're not negatively negatively impacting player's choices, or providing an easier means to victory.

[Dei Veien.2456]

Holomode only lasts a small period of time before they have to revert back to normal or risk taking 40% of their health pool just because they stayed in that mode for too long. Over heating also puts holomode on a longer cd leaving you without a chance to play aggressively.Thief may not have might, or stab but prior to today it had a lot of evades, a lot of blocks and still had high dps even without might stacks. Engi still relies on boons in order to run, just as it has since day dot.
Also the leap is 600 with a weird stuttery stop at the end (has this changed with the change to swiftness I haven't checked). Most classes with leaps or blinks can easily out range this. Or if you are a scourge that doesn't have leaps. Drop some shades before the engi gets in range to use his cc.Getting hit by a glass cannon that is trying to burst you should hurt just as it does on all other burst builds. Getting caught by a medi trap Dragon hunter or getting hit by a power mes hurts and can take down players in short time frames as well. Same with the new weaver spec and the dare devil.

[Unholy Pillager.3791]

@Razor.6392 said:Damage wise autoattacking is better of course, but the leap is a leap finisher, gap closer and nuke, also AoE.

You're complaining about a 600-range gap closer with auto attack damage? Seriously? You must be overawed by swoop.

Thief is a fine comparison to bring up, but that doesn't mean it's fine to me. I never said that. Always considered Shadow Shot to be ridiculously over the top for what it can do among others. Unlike Engi though, thief does bleed, packs little to no cc, no 25 stacks of might or any stability, has counterplay in many abilities, and doesn't have many skills that are must dodges.

On demand daze with no cooldown + daze on steal + knockdown every 12 16 seconds = no cc? That's a lot more than holosmiths get. Add thief to the list of professions you know nothing about, right under engineer.

To refuse to dodge or use an invuln on ANY holo skill that isn't shockwave, is to lose upwards of 4-6.5k health. Dude basically spams backstab lmao.

For less than ten seconds, at which point they need to wait 15-20 seconds with no offensive pressure whatsoever for their heat level to dissipate. All you need to do is pop an invuln and kite/dodge for a few seconds, and then you don't have to worry at all about their damage because they're stuck in rifle for a while, and engineer rifle has little to no serious damage.