Proklet.2857 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 Since EoD launched, I am not having fun anymore. Everyone play super tanky builds now, duels last forever. It is so boring. Either you are fighting something unkillable, or you are dealing with groups of 5 people doing pve... WvW was the only game mode that I like, because of roaming, but now it is just not fun anymore. Boooooorriiiiiinnnnnggg 1 6 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Za Shaloc.3908 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 1 hour ago, Proklet.2857 said: Since EoD launched, I am not having fun anymore. Everyone play super tanky builds now, duels last forever. It is so boring. Either you are fighting something unkillable, or you are dealing with groups of 5 people doing pve... WvW was the only game mode that I like, because of roaming, but now it is just not fun anymore. Boooooorriiiiiinnnnnggg This only happened to you since EoD launched? What kind of alternate reality are you playing in? EoD hasn't changed anything for the worse because at least people are experimenting more with (subpar) builds again. The fewer Cele Scrappers and Renegades in the game mode, the better. For myself, roaming got notably worse with the Warclaw, got a lot harder with the big 2020 balance patch, and then the nail in the coffin was the buff to Cele. The balance patch in and of itself wasn't a fully bad thing, but the lack of followup for it has been really unfortunate. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortigern.1987 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, godfat.2604 said: Not completely the same. The main difference is being percentage based, rather than a flat change, so that it affects high toughness players more than low toughness players. For example, for 50% reduction, 3000 toughness players will take 1500 toughness reduction, while 2000 toughness players will only take 1000 toughness reduction. Even a full Minstrel Support Guard has just slightly more than 2000 toughness and slighly less than 2000 vitality. In other words he would be debuffed to base toughness and vitality. In zergfights this means a death sentence, for roaming it means the removal of condi- and hybrid-builds and the return of power one-shot-builds. WvW is about large.scale fights, so the balance has to be for large-scale fights. If you find ways to make roaming better without touching zergfights that would be fine, but this idea is crap. Edited March 19, 2022 by Vortigern.1987 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyBat.9034 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 7 hours ago, Proklet.2857 said: Since EoD launched, I am not having fun anymore. Everyone play super tanky builds now, duels last forever. It is so boring. Either you are fighting something unkillable, or you are dealing with groups of 5 people doing pve... WvW was the only game mode that I like, because of roaming, but now it is just not fun anymore. Boooooorriiiiiinnnnnggg Sounds false, what build are you running? Link it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dralor.3701 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 I dislike the warclaw but everything else seems fine. I would be curious what class someone is playing they is unhappy with the current state of affairs. (Other than stagnant meta) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caedmon.6798 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 35 minutes ago, Dralor.3701 said: I dislike the warclaw but everything else seems fine. I would be curious what class someone is playing they is unhappy with the current state of affairs. (Other than stagnant meta) "Everything else seems fine"... My house is on fire,but everything else seems fine. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dralor.3701 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 14 minutes ago, Caedmon.6798 said: "Everything else seems fine"... My house is on fire,but everything else seems fine. There is always going to be some balance issues which is what this thread was addressing. I’m sorry your house is on fire. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caedmon.6798 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 (edited) 1 minute ago, Dralor.3701 said: There is always going to be some balance issues which is what this thread was addressing. I’m sorry your house is on fire. Im sorry youre blind to the issue at hand. More people keep dropping out, but keep pretending nothing is wrong. Edited March 19, 2022 by Caedmon.6798 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dralor.3701 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 We have bad rewards, bad matchups, no new maps/content. Desert BL is terrible. I could go on… There are a lot of reasons people leave that have nothing to do with class balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotus.5672 Posted March 19, 2022 Share Posted March 19, 2022 4 hours ago, Vortigern.1987 said: Even a full Minstrel Support Guard has just slightly more than 2000 toughness and slighly less than 2000 vitality Maybe if you are wearing green gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenash.1245 Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) On 3/18/2022 at 5:08 PM, DragonSlayer.1087 said: the problem is, vulnerability is universal, meaning buffing it would also make squishier classes even squishier. Let's say they add another condition that will lower certain stats like vitality and toughness. That condition should only lower it to a certain threshold where classes running glass are not affected. example: "Cracked Armor" - For 2 seconds... this condition reduces your toughness and vitality by 50%. Your toughness and vitality couldn't not go lower than the base level. - at level 80, it can't go lower than 1000. idk that's like a rough example. I like the idea in concept, but I'm not really sure why it'd have to be something that doesn't work against glass specs. Since I'd figure that would only further promote people to go with things like berserker stats all day every day. But that's just my opinion from a glance, maybe I'm missing something here. Random Edit: Actually no I want to question this a bit more and ask, how would this type of status be balanced on thieves? They're already one of the better roaming specs and they don't really need toughness to survive at all, so wouldn't this just be a straight upgrade to an already strong roaming spec? I'm not trying to knock the idea at all, just trying to understand all this better. Edited March 20, 2022 by Xenash.1245 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortigern.1987 Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) "Maybe if you are wearing green gear " Sigh! With full minstrel gear a guardian has around 3.4k points of armor, but only 2120 come from toughness. The rest comes from the armor itself. The vitality sits just below 2k, even with the grandmaster trait that gives you 300 bonus vitality, you need monk runes (or something similar) to break 20k hp. with legendary/ ascendend gear, ofc. Edited March 20, 2022 by Vortigern.1987 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catchyfx.5768 Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) 23 hours ago, Vortigern.1987 said: WvW is about large.scale fights, so the balance has to be for large-scale fights. If you find ways to make roaming better without touching zergfights that would be fine, but this idea is crap. And what about to Reverse it? From smallscale 5v5 10v10 you just add ppl. So it make sence to go this way. Better then" lets get this class ability to cleanse for 10 ppl and all condi players are now out in smallscale, same with dmg etc. Everything is 5 target cap so why not to balance from the ground up? Let's discuss (To be fair, playig Ng in eu T1 and T2 most of the tags are ppt and regural fights are around 15ppl big groups. 50mans are quick win for group who goes from stealth first. Edited March 20, 2022 by Catchyfx.5768 Forgot to mention something 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joneirikb.7506 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 On 3/19/2022 at 1:08 AM, DragonSlayer.1087 said: the problem is, vulnerability is universal, meaning buffing it would also make squishier classes even squishier. Let's say they add another condition that will lower certain stats like vitality and toughness. That condition should only lower it to a certain threshold where classes running glass are not affected. example: "Cracked Armor" - For 2 seconds... this condition reduces your toughness and vitality by 50%. Your toughness and vitality couldn't not go lower than the base level. - at level 80, it can't go lower than 1000. idk that's like a rough example. If I understand this correctly: If I have 2000 toughness and vitality (exactly by some miracle), and got hit by this, I'd be reduced to 1000 of each for the duration. That sounds a bit excessive, I think a 50% reduction would likely be more than enough to have a great effect and allow a burst build to kill something. Especially in combination with everything else in the game, like might and vulnerability stacks etc. (Also not a fan of reducing vitality by itself, as it makes the health number yoyo around quite a bit, especially with such big numbers). I think you could probably simplify it to just reduce X% of armour, and it would likely work the same, while also help power more than condi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knite.1542 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 Underwater combat balance is probably higher on their priority list than small scale wvw. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Marshal.4098 Posted March 21, 2022 Share Posted March 21, 2022 On 3/20/2022 at 12:21 AM, Dralor.3701 said: We have bad rewards, bad matchups, no new maps/content. Desert BL is terrible. I could go on… There are a lot of reasons people leave that have nothing to do with class balance. DBL has grown on me. It's my home 😍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zekent.3652 Posted March 23, 2022 Author Share Posted March 23, 2022 On 3/19/2022 at 2:04 PM, Vortigern.1987 said: If you find ways to make roaming better without touching zergfights that would be fine. Indeed, that's the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiyo.3578 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 If they're going to make zerg vs zerg unbearable fun, can you at least just copy/paste all pvp changes into wvw so roaming is at least tolerable? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zyreva.1078 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 38 minutes ago, Shiyo.3578 said: If they're going to make zerg vs zerg unbearable fun, can you at least just copy/paste all pvp changes into wvw so roaming is at least tolerable? Ironically this would affect zergs way more than roamers ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oatsnjuices.1698 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 Balance revolves around the ability to get away. If every class can get away without defeat, then I guess there is balance. in my opinion there are far too many builds that can out sustain roaming builds. They out heal damage, even against glass cannons. This meta is boring, unless it is only played for the boon ball. Solo roaming is only good if there are other roamers that will entertain the idea of a five minute fight, because the builds that have that kind of sustain and lack of power are meta. Due to the length of fights, they are often interrupted by the out of nowhere player that stumbles across the fight and decides to make short work of the opponent that is on cooldown. This is why I have seen in just the past few months good players only logging in once or twice a week, and probably soon not at all. I know my game, roaming, is a niche. But it is how I have fun, and without it, I am bored and only barely playing... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiyo.3578 Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 58 minutes ago, oatsnjuices.1698 said: Balance revolves around the ability to get away. If every class can get away without defeat, then I guess there is balance. in my opinion there are far too many builds that can out sustain roaming builds. They out heal damage, even against glass cannons. This meta is boring, unless it is only played for the boon ball. Solo roaming is only good if there are other roamers that will entertain the idea of a five minute fight, because the builds that have that kind of sustain and lack of power are meta. Due to the length of fights, they are often interrupted by the out of nowhere player that stumbles across the fight and decides to make short work of the opponent that is on cooldown. This is why I have seen in just the past few months good players only logging in once or twice a week, and probably soon not at all. I know my game, roaming, is a niche. But it is how I have fun, and without it, I am bored and only barely playing... Yeah, people either get 1 shot and 1 shot you back, are literally invincible, or have positional hack on demand. Class design is absolute trash for PvP. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiranslee.4829 Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 On 3/24/2022 at 3:13 AM, Shiyo.3578 said: Yeah, people either get 1 shot and 1 shot you back, are literally invincible, or have positional hack on demand. Class design is absolute trash for PvP. I would disagree on 1 shot in some cases for example Exzen who play glass cannon ele that takes high amount of skill to play and not die if u fail your bursts. If you compare that build for example to pewpew ranger or DE , i think clearly they are not on same page from how hard is to sustain opposed to reward you get for going glass. Maybe proper way is to look toward win/loss when balancing roaming builds. Atm trail and cele gear build hardly get any downsides and that makes them not fun at all to play with or against. Thief on other side and specifically its SA trait line is hard carry and makes its too strong mainly since you are virtually unkillable due to ability to escape (lets not even talk about slondering near water, fishing may help change this if they add thieves as type of fish you can catch). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozumi.5816 Posted March 26, 2022 Share Posted March 26, 2022 Please look at EoD specs mobility, mainly Willbenders and Specters. They have too much instant disengage that can all be stacked to make them cover great distances instantly. 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zekent.3652 Posted March 27, 2022 Author Share Posted March 27, 2022 On 3/26/2022 at 4:15 PM, Kozumi.5816 said: Please look at EoD specs mobility, mainly Willbenders and Specters. They have too much instant disengage that can all be stacked to make them cover great distances instantly. Are you unironically complainging about willbender? 💀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kozumi.5816 Posted March 28, 2022 Share Posted March 28, 2022 7 hours ago, Zizekent.2398 said: Are you unironically complainging about willbender? 💀 Their mobility isn't an enjoyable PvP experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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