Jump to content
  • Sign Up

What counters bladesworn the king of self sustain ?


Recommended Posts

Stuff with conditions or if you go for keeping the node some bunker, BS doesn't have  that much damage, best solution condi sidenoder on the bunkerish side , some ranger build is my best bet since the tactics build is not running discipline, the imob will kitten with them them pretty hard. 

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Few things to understand about these kinds of specs:

  1. It has limited ability to secure kills on you. It's slow and it doesn't have much lockdown CC. Avoid it.
  2. In team fights, don't target it. Kill squishy targets first and then he'll be forced to retreat or stay and die.
  3. On side nodes: If the node is your color and you know you can stall him and keep the node, stay and defend. If you know he is going to beat you, just leave and avoid him. If the node is the enemy color and he engages you to defend his node, just leave. Even if you know you can kill it in the long run, it won't be worth the time required to do it. Your time invested vs. point ticks gained will be better utilized elsewhere. Never 1v1 super sustain on their own color unless you KNOW you are good enough to drop that player quickly.
  4. In other words, avoid Bladesworn in 1v1 situations completely unless there is a real important reason to engage it 1v1. Understand that the faster you leave a node, the faster your team can back-cap that node when the Bladesworn is forced to also leave the node. If he is wanting to sit and camp a node, let him do it. If he doesn't leave that node, he allows your team to 5v4 his team on the other two nodes. Even if he is wise enough to leave the node to rejoin team fights to keep numbers even, he is very slow compared to most other classes right now, and you can punish them for this by ignoring them completely. Example: You go to far node and it is grey neutral but a Bladesworn shows up same time you do, to contest the neutral node against you. If you just leave him and go to the team fight, he will sit and try to full cap the node which takes time and then he will have a slow rotation back to the team fight. During all that time, if you are on a generally mobile class, it will likely be about 20+ seconds your team benefits a 5v4 and can potentially create snowball, because you chose to leave the Bladesworn instead of engaging it in a 5 minute 1v1.

Just ignore good Bladesworn players unless you KNOW exactly what you are doing and why, if you chose to stay and engage it.

  • Like 7
  • Thanks 4
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If they're running a full ammo build for barrier (which requires using ammo skills' last charge), then they have little to no Stability. Just push them away and go on with your life.

 

Just watch your heals; their damage is low but you can still get downed by them.

Edited by Hannelore.8153
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/17/2022 at 2:03 PM, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

"Their damage is low" well except for the 5-6k artillery shots that come out almost instantly and can be fired three in a row. And the axe skills.

Hitting for 5-6k is considered low now, most of the new specs do 10ks. We also had a core Warrior doing 10k Throw Axe to players yesterday in a game for some reason.

 

Part of it is that Might and other boons are now much more prevalent in PvP with this expo.

Edited by Hannelore.8153
  • Like 2
  • Confused 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Few things to understand about these kinds of specs:

  1. It has limited ability to secure kills on you. It's slow and it doesn't have much lockdown CC. Avoid it.
  2. In team fights, don't target it. Kill squishy targets first and then he'll be forced to retreat or stay and die.
  3. On side nodes: If the node is your color and you know you can stall him and keep the node, stay and defend. If you know he is going to beat you, just leave and avoid him. If the node is the enemy color and he engages you to defend his node, just leave. Even if you know you can kill it in the long run, it won't be worth the time required to do it. Your time invested vs. point ticks gained will be better utilized elsewhere. Never 1v1 super sustain on their own color unless you KNOW you are good enough to drop that player quickly.
  4. In other words, avoid Bladesworn in 1v1 situations completely unless there is a real important reason to engage it 1v1. Understand that the faster you leave a node, the faster your team can back-cap that node when the Bladesworn is forced to also leave the node. If he is wanting to sit and camp a node, let him do it. If he doesn't leave that node, he allows your team to 5v4 his team on the other two nodes. Even if he is wise enough to leave the node to rejoin team fights to keep numbers even, he is very slow compared to most other classes right now, and you can punish them for this by ignoring them completely. Example: You go to far node and it is grey neutral but a Bladesworn shows up same time you do, to contest the neutral node against you. If you just leave him and go to the team fight, he will sit and try to full cap the node which takes time and then he will have a slow rotation back to the team fight. During all that time, if you are on a generally mobile class, it will likely be about 20+ seconds your team benefits a 5v4 and can potentially create snowball, because you chose to leave the Bladesworn instead of engaging it in a 5 minute 1v1.

Just ignore good Bladesworn players unless you KNOW exactly what you are doing and why, if you chose to stay and engage it.

He has mobility.. dt is on a 4 sec cooldown... lol .. Has good condi removal (aoe too), good sustain, got pressure, bs skills do ridiculous damage at a good range threshold... It's busted.

Nevermind that though, after watching markhutirios, grim, anya, naru and jeff duel helio after scrim practices on bladesworn it's safe to say that Bladesworn will easily be the next broken spec once people have gotten it down - its quite literally unbeatable and this is matchups between good players who are probably at the top level of what you could play at in this game on NA at least.

It was good before, but immediately got super buffed with vindi and mech nerfs. It was already stalling or beating vindi pre-nerf, it's just demolishing vindi now.

Anybody defending and trying to wrap conceptual outplays around this class in terms of avoidance is missing the fact you'd be formulating an entire team platform around the concept of "How do we outplay this class by playing the map?" - then you know it's stupid busted and it's not realistically going to work in ranked.

The fact that you have to actually do that, is the same mindset that was with bunker chrono back in the day - they built team comps around not only using it but trying to beat it to a point where they knew it wouldn't work and everyone just ran it, because it was so busted.

It seems like that is what you're suggesting here. You're asking an entire group of strangers in ranked with a max threshold of a duo q to decide how they're going to outplay a bladesworn on map rotation because it's simply uncontested in 1v1s and you just have to play the map due to it's hypothetical slowness (which again, theyre not slow) in a PvP mode where not even the top 4-5% players can 1v1 the class.

Edited by Tinkerer.2167
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 1
  • Confused 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Hitting for 5-6k is considered pathetic now, most of the new specs do 10ks. We also had a core Warrior doing 10k Throw Axe to players yesterday in a game for some reason.

 

Part of it is that Might and other boons are now much more prevalent in PvP with this expo.

5k * 3 = 15k in a little over a second (from range). 10k throw axe is pretty normal but unlike Artillery Strike, throw axe can be avoided with strafing

Edited by agrippastrilemma.8741
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, agrippastrilemma.8741 said:

5k * 3 = 15k in a little over a second (from range). 10k throw axe is pretty normal but unlike Artillery Strike, throw axe can be avoided with strafing

10k throw axe is definitely NOT normal. If you're running berserker stats and target is less than 25% health, you can get 6k+ pretty easily. But for 10k...you'd have to be might capped and/or maybe 3 stacks of Berserker's Power and the target would have to be light armor without extra toughness. Or maybe have a ton of vuln on them. In short, a lot of stars have to align for that sort of dmg on throw axe.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Tinkerer.2167 said:

He has mobility.. dt is on a 4 sec cooldown... lol .. Has good condi removal (aoe too), good sustain, got pressure, bs skills do ridiculous damage at a good range threshold... It's busted.

Nevermind that though, after watching markhutirios, grim, anya, naru and jeff duel helio after scrim practices on bladesworn it's safe to say that Bladesworn will easily be the next broken spec once people have gotten it down - its quite literally unbeatable and this is matchups between good players who are probably at the top level of what you could play at in this game on NA at least.

It was good before, but immediately got super buffed with vindi and mech nerfs. It was already stalling or beating vindi pre-nerf, it's just demolishing vindi now.

Anybody defending and trying to wrap conceptual outplays around this class in terms of avoidance is missing the fact you'd be formulating an entire team platform around the concept of "How do we outplay this class by playing the map?" - then you know it's stupid busted and it's not realistically going to work in ranked.

The fact that you have to actually do that, is the same mindset that was with bunker chrono back in the day - they built team comps around not only using it but trying to beat it to a point where they knew it wouldn't work and everyone just ran it, because it was so busted.

It seems like that is what you're suggesting here. You're asking an entire group of strangers in ranked with a max threshold of a duo q to decide how they're going to outplay a bladesworn on map rotation because it's simply uncontested in 1v1s and you just have to play the map due to it's hypothetical slowness (which again, theyre not slow) in a PvP mode where not even the top 4-5% players can 1v1 the class.

  1. Its mobility is bad in this new EOD meta. Everything was given a ridiculous amount of teleport & general mobility creep. Bladesworn is very easy to get away from.
  2. Bladesworn isn't unbeatable in 1v1s, it's unkillable. There is a big difference between these two things in conquest. You can push it off nodes for decaps and ignore it combat wise in terms of worrying about killing it. If you aren't defending a node against it or aren't a decap build that can neutralize a node from under it, don't engage it. This is nothing new. We've been doing vs. specs like this for 10 years now.
  3. You said: "Bladesworn will easily be the next broken spec once people have gotten it down - its quite literally unbeatable and this is matchups between good players who are probably at the top level of what you could play at in this game on NA at least." - I play against these players consistently like 4x a day in AT finals. The statements I'm making on Bladesworn here are based off final rounds of ATs and against Vaans, who is in my opinion, easily the best Bladesworn in NA right now. 
  4. You said: "Anybody defending and trying to wrap conceptual outplays around this class in terms of avoidance is missing the fact"  "It seems like that is what you're suggesting here. You're asking an entire group of strangers in ranked with a max threshold of a duo q to decide how they're going to outplay a bladesworn" - I am not defending Bladesworn, nor did I ask anyone to do anything. Reread the post. All that happened was a guy asked how to deal with Bladesworn and then I explained to him the best way to do it in its current state.
Edited by Trevor Boyer.6524
  • Like 4
  • Haha 1
  • Confused 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Its mobility is bad in this new EOD meta. Everything was given a ridiculous amount of teleport & general mobility creep. Bladesworn is very easy to get away from. "

Well, I mean there's maybe only 2 classes from EOD that will see play at any kind of actual scale when comparing to HoT/PoF specs and with mech nerfed and vindi losing a lot of it's sustain that is even more apparent. Right?

So in reality there's no mobility to compare to for Bladesworn in terms of an "EoD meta", nobody is playing willbender competitively and you can have the same mobility as vindi on rev and it's a more reliable roamer burster despite it's obvious weaknesses, in all reality it's looking like vindi will be more of a noder as Alliance/Demon.

There's not enough sustain on harb to even be worth it and specter is more or less the same class but with a bit more team fight potential - still the same mobility. You have a tp on mech, but it's useless now as a side noder, just bring LR ele or any condi spam spec and it's easy so not many will bring it now.

EoD brought a bunch more mobility, sure, but if nobody plays them because they're useless then it's kind of a pointless argument. I can bring a lot more mobility and provide insufficient value in another part of the map until Bladesworn gets there, or I can play a more viable spec and sacrifice the mobility in exchange for actual value.

So the EoD meta you're referring to just doesn't exist to even try to compare it. If anything the meta in terms of mobility stayed the same with only slight adjustments with EoD coming in.

So yea, Bladesworn still is mobile enough when comparing to most of the good specs that are being played in ranked and at the top level.

 

 

Edited by Tinkerer.2167
  • Confused 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Pati.2438 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 Hopefully they will not nerf it. If yes then hopefully do buff defence line in same move. For Real when did we saw a defence warr running around last time. Those traitline is simply death cause of ways too hard nerfs in yea litterly every Single trait option.

Hammer Trait in strength needs a rework. 

Arms traitline need to not be from 2012.

Defense needs a full rework. 

Tactic needs some changes. Banner Trait needs to be in it. 

Disc is OK. Replace the Banner Trait with a minor dps Trait. And fast hand to 2s reduced Weapon swap. 

Normal weapon swap to 7s baseline. 

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@DanAlcedo.3281 yea exactly. Tho I would love to see the Hammer trailine in the Spot of Heightenet Focus. Since those traitline used to buff Hammer. But the Hammer normal traitline is more than enough buff over all.

 

Also a good "defence" Option in arms would be nice to at least buff the options for a good defenced openworld condition build.

 

As for banners idk i would say its okay in Disziplin but would at all be better in the Spot of warriors cunning in tactics.

 

Also i Fonds the 5 sek fast hands pretty decent as it is this does not need to change at all. (Its something that made the line good)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Tinkerer.2167 said:

He has mobility.. dt is on a 4 sec cooldown... lol .. Has good condi removal (aoe too), good sustain, got pressure, bs skills do ridiculous damage at a good range threshold... It's busted.

Nevermind that though, after watching markhutirios, grim, anya, naru and jeff duel helio after scrim practices on bladesworn it's safe to say that Bladesworn will easily be the next broken spec once people have gotten it down - its quite literally unbeatable and this is matchups between good players who are probably at the top level of what you could play at in this game on NA at least.

It was good before, but immediately got super buffed with vindi and mech nerfs. It was already stalling or beating vindi pre-nerf, it's just demolishing vindi now.

Anybody defending and trying to wrap conceptual outplays around this class in terms of avoidance is missing the fact you'd be formulating an entire team platform around the concept of "How do we outplay this class by playing the map?" - then you know it's stupid busted and it's not realistically going to work in ranked.

The fact that you have to actually do that, is the same mindset that was with bunker chrono back in the day - they built team comps around not only using it but trying to beat it to a point where they knew it wouldn't work and everyone just ran it, because it was so busted.

It seems like that is what you're suggesting here. You're asking an entire group of strangers in ranked with a max threshold of a duo q to decide how they're going to outplay a bladesworn on map rotation because it's simply uncontested in 1

13 hours ago, Tinkerer.2167 said:

He has mobility.. dt is on a 4 sec cooldown... lol .. Has good condi removal (aoe too), good sustain, got pressure, bs skills do ridiculous damage at a good range threshold... It's busted.

Nevermind that though, after watching markhutirios, grim, anya, naru and jeff duel helio after scrim practices on bladesworn it's safe to say that Bladesworn will easily be the next broken spec once people have gotten it down - its quite literally unbeatable and this is matchups between good players who are probably at the top level of what you could play at in this game on NA at least.

It was good before, but immediately got super buffed with vindi and mech nerfs. It was already stalling or beating vindi pre-nerf, it's just demolishing vindi now.

Anybody defending and trying to wrap conceptual outplays around this class in terms of avoidance is missing the fact you'd be formulating an entire team platform around the concept of "How do we outplay this class by playing the map?" - then you know it's stupid busted and it's not realistically going to work in ranked.

The fact that you have to actually do that, is the same mindset that was with bunker chrono back in the day - they built team comps around not only using it but trying to beat it to a point where they knew it wouldn't work and everyone just ran it, because it was so busted.

It seems like that is what you're suggesting here. You're asking an entire group of strangers in ranked with a max threshold of a duo q to decide how they're going to outplay a bladesworn on map rotation because it's simply uncontested in 1v1s and you just have to play the map due to it's hypothetical slowness (which again, theyre not slow) in a PvP mode where not even the top 4-5% players can 1v1 the class.

v1s and you just have to play the map due to it's hypothetical slowness (which again, theyre not slow) in a PvP mode where not even the top 4-5% players can 1v1 the class.

Bladesworn still loses to mechanistic 1v1, Ranger is also a rough matchup, so us weaver and it's completely awful at handling plusses. It's seeing play for its ability to mix it up and hold nodes for a bit while being effective during team fights that's it.

 

  • Like 1
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...