Forbid flying in expansion - unlock later.

[Opun.3824]

So now i understand why WOW forbids flying in thier expansions at the beginning, and requires doing some achievements to unlock it.

 

Flying makes everything TOO EASY, exploring new maps is not as fun as it was before skyscale, u dont have to think about using ziplines, look for path up... u just fly - this breaks immersion and fun.

 

I think Anet could have done same as WOW - lock mounts or only skyscale in cantha until u do all maps masteries (or some specific Achievement)

It would make exploring more fun and also give ppl some goal to make those achievements.

 

Same could be told for core tyria and Hot maps - u have to unlock mounts in those regions to use them.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Opun.3824

[Ember.6478]

I dunno how other people would feel, but getting my Skyscale was enough "unlocking" for me! Let me fly! It doesn't hurt anyone else's experience.

[Necrosian.1359]

No. This is exact reason i quit FF14, losing convenience just to trudge slowly through empty maps to get to the story wasn't worth it. Not to mention i firmly believe it was done to bloat the playtime.

Skyscale is far too big of a convenience for me to simply lose.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Necrosian.1359

[Danikat.8537]

42 minutes ago, Opun.3824 said:

So now i understand why WOW forbids flying in thier expansions at the beginning, and requires doing some achievements to unlock it.

 

Flying makes everything TOO EASY, exploring new maps is not as fun as it was before skyscale, u dont have to think about using ziplines, look for path up... u just fly - this breaks immersion and fun.

 

I think Anet could have done same as WOW - lock mounts or only skyscale in cantha until u do all maps masteries (or some specific Achievement)

It would make exploring more fun and also give ppl some goal to make those achievements.

 

Same could be told for core tyria and Hot maps - u have to unlock mounts in those regions to use them.

If you think it would be more fun to avoid using the flying mounts you already have that option.

That's exactly what I did when going through the new maps for the first time, especially New Kaineng. I didn't let myself use the glider, griffon or skyscale to get around and instead went looking for ground routes and the occasional zip line. Along the way I found a lot of things I would have missed if I was flying or otherwise just trying to get to my destination as quickly as possible.

But even so I appreciated that it was my choice and that if at any point I did want to use a flying mount (say for example someone called for help with an event and my new priority became getting there as fast as possible) I could do that too.

You can also go back and do it later on if you think you missed out on something the first time. I did that with one POI in Dragon's End, the first time I used the skyscale to get there quickly because someone told me there was a collection you could only unlock after a successful meta event and I didn't have much time to get there. But I thought it would be interesting to get there using the springer, so I did it that way later on when I had more time.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Danikat.8537

[CMM.6712]

Unlocking the skyscale is time consuming, etc. because it is so worth it. It does not take away from my experience at all, in fact it adds. I earned the right to fly through a new zone and explore it how I want. I like to fly.

[Gorem.8104]

So the thing that played a large role in killing WoW, removing flight from expacs, someone wants it here? lol. You made a funny. 

Open world is for everyone to play how they like 🙂 If others want to fly, let them. If you don't want to fly, then don't, its up to player choice. 

The moment restrictions enter a game like this, is the moment it dies. 

[Crunchbone.7341]

I loved WoW through BC, Wrath, Cata, & MoP, not because there were no problems & frustrations to be ironed out, but because it was my game of casual play, collections, exploration, collecting low drop rate flying mounts for ALL those expansions. I love to fly. Good games are like reading a book, they take me away for a time. They relax my mind. They challenge, but not frustrate me.

 

Suddenly in WOD, they tried to remove flying altogether. SO MANY people just quit over that. I will no longer play WoW, nor have I for a long time. I hated being kept off my flying mounts for 1 year out of every 2 years. Sometimes even longer than that. WoW players lost their flight now for over 4 years of the last 8. They begrudgingly let players "earn" it back for a small part of each Xpack, then they immediately make new regions with new content in which you were not allowed to fly. No thank you.

 

GW2 has probably the best mount design in any game I have played. Each mount fills a need, & I earned them all, just as I may have spent years waiting for a particular favorite mount (Invincible, Ashes of Alar, etc etc) to drop in WoW. I am 65 & have very severe vision problems. WoW used to be for all players with, solo, casual, & hard (elite) content. It is now for Mythic+ lovers & those who don't mind being grounded & losing their flying mount functions. Nothing left for players like me.

 

I started GW2 in its beta, played awhile, missed mounts, & went back to WoW for a time. I play only GW2 now & for a long time because it has been a place where although there is harder content, I could enjoy the solo or casual group play & no matter what, they never took away my mounts, or my delicious flight. I LOVE GW2 mounts. If we were banned from flight as in WoW, I would leave & be done with GW2. I can only speak for myself.

 

The DE meta is  a bit too hard for me with my disabilities, but I still tried. I bought my turtle egg & finished the requirements to raise it. If the DE meta stays as it is I will probably never win it, but at least Anet gave me an alternative method to get the egg. I feel that the community here in GW2 despite the DE meta kind of splitting it into "tiers" is basically a good, helpful, & friendly place, & I enjoy it here. I know I am not good enough for raids & fractals (or the DE Meta), so I try to never do those things that would hinder the progress of others. I know I can only get so good without EVER reaching the "top tier", but it is ok. I love the things I CAN do & I love to fly. Please do not take flight from us.

[Crunchbone.7341]

Also agreed with Gorem above. If you do not want to fly, don't fly. Having the choice to decide for yourself is the best :)

[Scolix.4879]

1 hour ago, Opun.3824 said:

this breaks immersion and fun.

Kind of subjective as i do not find trying hours to find how to get on top of some kitten hill any fun at all.

And as for immersion part... You can kill gods and dragons as a boot high Asura i do not think flying a skyscale would be any more broken.

 

[Raknar.4735]

There's a super easy solution to this. If it makes it less fun & too easy for you, you yourself could just not use it.

[garpu.6210]

The level design for Arena Net is for mounts. Like you can tell that a lot of places were designed for the skyscale and springer in mind.  I don't get the same sense of design from WoW with anything after BC or WotLK, to be honest. If you have to gate content behind taking things away from players, it's poor level design.

[TheWaternymphHC.1847]

2 hours ago, Opun.3824 said:

So now i understand why WOW forbids flying in thier expansions at the beginning, and requires doing some achievements to unlock it.

Why do you think that people leave WoW left, right and center since Warlords of Draenor? Most folks play MMORPGs for fun and entertainment and not so much because they want their game time micro-managed by some overzealous developers who believe they are gods walking among mere mortals.

Blizzard wanted to completely get rid of flying in WoD since QA costs a lot of time and that filler expansions was an unfinished mess at release. If it wasn't for the huge outrage and people actually cancelling their subscriptions instead of just threatening to do so in the forums, flying in WoW would probably be limited to a few of the old zones or expansions nowadays.

For GW2 there is basically no reason to delay flying within new expansion content or a living world season. If Anet had actually done that with EoD, they'd probably had to shut these forums down by now, and had to hope that the huge cyclone of a kittenstorm wouldn't sink the game as a whole.

As someone who played through the EoD story, completed all Mastery Insights and the four maps without any flying mount, I can tell you that I can't wait till I finally catch up with unlocking the Skyscale. Even with the combined power of the other mounts, EoD is a major pain since pretty much all the new maps are obviously designed for flying. I guess Anet has to ensure that folks still buy old living world seasons.

[wayneericgouin.9371]

Why would you want this game to be anything like the snore fest that is WoW or final fantasy? The way both of those games handle story and map exploration is probably the worst in the Industry.

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

So spending a minimum time of 3 days + 8 hours do unlock the skyscale (not counting mat grind and story)... and then you think it is appropiate that I need to do some MORE achievements just for the privilege to use the mount again in those maps?

Hahaha. NO.

Implement that, and this will be a WoW/ff14 copy and therefor be reason enough for me to abandon.

I play gw2 because I LOATHE ff14 and WoW for their utter DISRESPECT of my playing time and fun.

 

[Scolix.4879]

52 minutes ago, TheWaternymphHC.1847 said:

Why do you think that people leave WoW left, right and center since Warlords of Draenor? Most folks play MMORPGs for fun and entertainment and not so much because they want their game time micro-managed by some overzealous developers who believe they are gods walking among mere mortals.

One of the reasons i finally said F this and quit wow on top of SL being terrible was the constant gatekeeping of flying in every expansion since WoD. I earned that flying multiple times and every patch/expansion there is a new BS reason why i need to grind 6+ months to get it back.

 

[radium.7350]

No.

This game is not WOW and many players are here just because of that. Here you are allowed to have fun, things you get as rewards are not taken away from you just to be tangled front of your nose as "reward" to earn back later.

Here you control yourself and make decisions whether you want to fly, jump, speed on beetle, sail on boat or perhaps just swim. There is absolutely nothing preventing you to do so.

Other people using flying mounts will also not give them any advantage over you. You can gain height faster with springer and get same/faster landspeeds with any mount really. If someone prefers to slowly flop around on skyscale, let them do that in peace.

This is Guildwars 2 and we love this game for what it is.💗

[Gibson.4036]

I played through EOD story completely with my son, who has the skyscale.

I’ve played through Seitung and New Kaineng with my daughter, who does not, so we go everywhere by ground mount.

I’ve been surprised how little difference it has made. People keep saying these maps are designed with mounts in mind, which I take to mean assuming players have the skyscale as well. In my experience, it feels like these maps were actually designed to thwart the skyscale to an extent. There are enough sheer changes in elevation that it is as much work to skyscale up as it is to find the nearest stair or road and take them to where you need to go.

I haven’t found that the skyscale trivializes the maps at all.

Edited March 20, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[TheWaternymphHC.1847]

13 minutes ago, Gibson.4036 said:

I played through EOD story completely with my son, who has the skyscale.

I’ve played through Seitung and New Kaineng with my daughter, who does not, so we go everywhere by ground mount.

Normal mounts are fine for the story, but once you are going for map completion and the Mastery Insights, you will notice that some hero points and insights are fairly trivial to reach with a flyer while you are running circles around your objective with your ground mounts or try multiple times with a jade bot enhanced glider. Worst example for me was the southern MP in the Old Kaineng ruins area. You start at the back of the building in the center with the jade bot workbench, use countless stairs in different buildings, three or four zip-lines across the rooftops, and at the end a well timed glide with an updraft from the jade bot. While I have to admit that it is fun to figure out some of the more unorthodox ways to get to certain points the first time, it's nothing I want to repeat on my alts on ground mounts again.

On an EoD-only account with just the basic glider, basic Raptor and basic Springer, you can't even complete all maps/insights until you have the Siege Turtle unlocked and its mastery perk for the jet boost.

[Opun.3824]

First of all i stopped playing WOW around Draenor, restriction of flying was not why i quit (must admit achi for unlociing flying was rly long to complete), its just that gw2 have better world exploration, combat etc.

 

Seeing that not one person agree with me, ok maybe i was wrong, but i just remember how CORE tyra, HOT and POF ware without mounts, how u had to climb a hill to get vista, look for a way up, everywhere was a little bit of jumping puzzle, looking for poi's etc.

In my personal opinion exploring world was just more fun.

 

In HOT u didnt have gliding at start and slowly getting masteries that helped to move around was fun, it unlocked just more options and places where u could go, same with POF - no mounts first and slowly unlocking them, so u could visit new places - not accesible without mounts, gliders or other masteries.

 

I just think EOD coz of already unlocked mounts kinda dont deliver this exploration that core and previous xpacs did, we dont have to unlock any mastery to visit new places, everything is just unlocked from start.

 

Maybe locking mounts is not a good option, but still making some parts of cantha accassible only after u reach certain mastery would be nice.

[Xelqypla.6817]

I imagine the people without Skyscale are swimming in unusual coins, since you run across chests, Jade Bot chests, and hidden chests far more often when you are not in the air.

[Walle.6045]

Griffon + Skyscale makes NEW kaining amazing. 

I can get from one map the other using griffon in less that 15 seconds 
I can use skyscale to get high to use griffon 

[Despot.3048]

1 hour ago, Opun.3824 said:

First of all i stopped playing WOW around Draenor, restriction of flying was not why i quit (must admit achi for unlociing flying was rly long to complete), its just that gw2 have better world exploration, combat etc.

 

Seeing that not one person agree with me, ok maybe i was wrong, but i just remember how CORE tyra, HOT and POF ware without mounts, how u had to climb a hill to get vista, look for a way up, everywhere was a little bit of jumping puzzle, looking for poi's etc.

In my personal opinion exploring world was just more fun.

 

In HOT u didnt have gliding at start and slowly getting masteries that helped to move around was fun, it unlocked just more options and places where u could go, same with POF - no mounts first and slowly unlocking them, so u could visit new places - not accesible without mounts, gliders or other masteries.

 

I just think EOD coz of already unlocked mounts kinda dont deliver this exploration that core and previous xpacs did, we dont have to unlock any mastery to visit new places, everything is just unlocked from start.

 

Maybe locking mounts is not a good option, but still making some parts of cantha accassible only after u reach certain mastery would be nice.

 Gatekeep yourself then. Stop telling others how the game should be enjoyed. 

[Knighthonor.4061]

1 hour ago, Despot.3048 said:

 Gatekeep yourself then. Stop telling others how the game should be enjoyed. 

I find this funny.  Off topic, but the same sort of people would have a fit in any MMO If somebody suggested getting rid of character level grinding in MMOS for this very reason of gatekeeping.

[TheWaternymphHC.1847]

32 minutes ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

I find this funny.  Off topic, but the same sort of people would have a fit in any MMO If somebody suggested getting rid of character level grinding in MMOS for this very reason of gatekeeping.

GW2 was pretty much the first MMORPG that got rid of level "grinding". And I'm not talking about XP tomes or character boosts here.

[Donari.5237]

9 hours ago, Crunchbone.7341 said:

The DE meta is  a bit too hard for me with my disabilities, but I still tried. I bought my turtle egg & finished the requirements to raise it. If the DE meta stays as it is I will probably never win it, but at least Anet gave me an alternative method to get the egg. I feel that the community here in GW2 despite the DE meta kind of splitting it into "tiers" is basically a good, helpful, & friendly place, & I enjoy it here. I know I am not good enough for raids & fractals (or the DE Meta), so I try to never do those things that would hinder the progress of others. I know I can only get so good without EVER reaching the "top tier", but it is ok. I love the things I CAN do & I love to fly. Please do not take flight from us.

I recommend Ralka to you.  She is a fantastic meta leader.  She has gotten wins for people with one arm, people without hearing, color blind people, and other differently abled folks.  Every run I've done with her has been a win with many minutes to spare.  (Though it's much longer than a 2 hour commitment, as we start building contribution stacks and consolidating to one map for the squad well in advance).  Check out her thread at https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/109967-follow-me-lets-get-your-egg/

As to this thread:  While I agree that I have missed some things thanks to my skyscale, especially in Echovald, I also agree with others in this thread that if I want to find those things, I will.  The devs are perfectly able to set up no-mount zones in areas where they think mounts will cheese or break the content, and they do so quite liberally.  Usually it makes sense, sometimes it's annoying -- hello, outdoor area of Hoelbrak that just happens to be near Eir's front door -- but if it was a blanket restriction and flight had to be re-"earned" well, you've seen the gut reactions in this thread.

Edited March 21, 2022 by Donari.5237
Curse you, forced extra line on an enter after a paragraph.