Jump to content
  • Sign Up

Ley Line Energy and Void "energy" are the same thing?


Logos.5603

Recommended Posts

17 minutes ago, KidRoleplay.3615 said:

Hmmm! Okay, that makes sense, too. Magic definitely absorbs into all kinds of earthen material, with numerous examples (arcane crystals, zephyrite crystals [which I've come to believe is just quartz], charged quartz, etc.). So I could see Laranthir not knowing what he's talking about.

And for the purpose of military command, what he said would still be close enough. Leystone still represents condensed ley energy, it's just more of a container rather than the stone itself being made of ley energy. Still bad to let an Elder Dragon eat it either way. ūüėõ

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So!!!

 

Ley line magic is just ... magic inside of ley lines. This magic is also called dragon magic, which is all magic.

Void magic is also all dragon magic but in high enough concentration to cause instability? (Much greater than Anomalies anyway)

Dragon magic is magic ... that dragons have, which is absorbed from anything and everything in the world. Thus, dragon magic = ... magic. Meaning, void magic, ley line magic, and dragon magic are all the same thing?

And then "corruption" happens due to said dragons absorbing too much magic that is outside of their domains?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, KidRoleplay.3615 said:

So!!!

 

Ley line magic is just ... magic inside of ley lines. This magic is also called dragon magic, which is all magic.

Void magic is also all dragon magic but in high enough concentration to cause instability? (Much greater than Anomalies anyway)

Dragon magic is magic ... that dragons have, which is absorbed from anything and everything in the world. Thus, dragon magic = ... magic. Meaning, void magic, ley line magic, and dragon magic are all the same thing?

And then "corruption" happens due to said dragons absorbing too much magic that is outside of their domains?

Seems to be. We've seen that corruption happens to non-dragons as well, but the threshold seems to be a lot lower.

Aurene seems to be able to avoid corruption - thus far - but I think a large part of that is that she does it by keeping most of the magic flowing through the ley lines, while apart from Soo-Won the other Elder Dragons greedily slurped it up themselves.
There does seem to be something, though, that makes Aurene more able to manage multiple types of magic at once better than Soo-Won could.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What I wonder is if Soo-Won is correct about the magic being outside of their domain (raising the question how did she handle it in the first place to know she couldn't and then needing to create other dragons) being the cause of the corruption. Primordus was awakened by Abaddon's death, so what if his torment entered the leylines causing the corruption to begin? A demonic influence over said dragons.

 

Or, every approximate 10,000 years, some kind of violent surge of malignant power breaks them out of their sleep with a nasty migraine?

 

She states she created the others sort of like tools to just sit there and eat. Now, too much exposure to ley energy "poisons" a living being, but what I'm wondering is if it's because the ley energy is already contaminated. We don't encounter it in game until after Zhaitan's dead already.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

to me it looked like the leylines are white magic, but slowly the void seeps in the system, so soo-won and the dragens filter this void back out of the system, each using a different element of the spectrum to not get overwhelmed. but it seems they still eventually got overwhelmed anyway, i think because they are not capable of removing this void from there own system, (like lead in your body, it slowly builds up if you get it as your body cant get rit of it) this "lead poisoning" slowly drove the dragons mad, and when we killed them, the void they accumulated got released into the leysystem, 1 dragon wasnt a problem, but multiple are, and without the dragons the seeping in vid doesnt get filtered anymore.

 

they all say aurene is different, i think she is capable of getting rit of the void poisoning thta slowly seeps in (maybe by sharing it with mortals, who when they die go to mists and release the void back into the mists)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

These posts have been quite interesting to read!

So, here are a few things that I've gathered going over notes and some of the stuff that you have all said:

1) They way the Mists and Void are described makes it difficult to think of them as distinct things.
The Mists: The thing out of which everything is made.
The Void:  The thing out of which Soo Won made everything.
But I don't think that the Mists have to be necessarily same thing as the Void. I think that the Void is the thing out of which Soo Won made Tyria, and just Tyria. However, the void has to be within the Mists and also part of it. Hence, technically, Tyria is also made from the Mists. 
That said, there is a text written by the Apostle that helps things: "Should the energies become imbalanced, the world will tilt and all beings will fall off it into the void" (The Map of the All).
So I think that there is an interesting interpretations of what Void is, and hence what the Mists is (or is not). The Mists is not the Void, but the Void is part of the Mists. Perhaps the Mists create vortexes of raw magic just like they create all kinds of other stuff. Then Soo Won used this vortex or pocket of raw magic and made Tyria out of it by separating it into 6 magics. So, this void technically exists outside of Tyria. And both Tyria and the Void exists within the Mists. This would imply that the Mists are not themselves Magic...but the thing magic is made from. So there might be places in the Mists without magic.

2) Ley energy and Void are the same thing.

(a)This would explain a few things. It would explain how Soo Won's making of Tyria is consistent with our understanding of the Mists (assuming that the Void and the Mists are the same thing). It also explains the whole filtering thing. I think that what Aurene filters might be extra magic (Mists or Void) oozing into Tyria, or the "All" (the machine at the center of Tyria that we see in our visions and is part of the eternal alchemy). After all, too much magic can have devastating consequences on Tyria as well. So, filtering this excess out would be a good thing. Alternatively what Aurene does is not filter Void into Ley energy, but Ley energy (Void) into the 6 types of magic (restoring the order/balance?). So she separates the Void, like the Elder Dragons were supposed to do.
(b) Ley energy corrupts not unlike the Void. For example: (1) "All over the region, rogue elements are being driven wild by chaotic ley energies. Innocent lives are at stake. If you're willing to help, pick a target from our bounty board" (Agent at Bounty Board); (2) the whole Bloodstone Craze effect.

I don't know...what do y'all think?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/24/2022 at 9:32 AM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

The issue with "void is just overfocused magic becoming sentient" is that... we already have exactly that from Season 3, and the whole "Void is a constant" + "Soo-Won made the world from Void" + "Elder Dragons filtered Void into their domains which merged into ley-lines" which indicate it's a case of "Void = Ley-lines + something unnamed".

Technicly it doesnt need to be "+ something unnamed". It could just be that the leylines dont really mix magic but are more a bundle of disjoint magic lines.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i have a feeling that the leysystem is made from Void, but a stable version, as leymagic is also all magic but stable, but it slowly falls back to void, the unstable version and the dragons filter out the untsable magic, but they story it on their body, making them slowly go mad with hunger to eat more magic to get more void. and when we killed them the stored unstable void got dumped into the leysystem, like leadpoisoning. and so it created anomalies. and here they keep talking about aurenes bond with mortals, specifically mortals, whats wrong with a bond with immortals.

 

i think because she shares the void she filters out the system with those mortals, and when mortals die, they go to the mists, dumping the void back into the mists and so its out of tyria's leysystem.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/30/2022 at 3:55 AM, yann.1946 said:

Technicly it doesnt need to be "+ something unnamed". It could just be that the leylines dont really mix magic but are more a bundle of disjoint magic lines.

 

This would be OK, unfortunately actual lore contradicts this interpretation. We have been told multiple times by in-game authorities like Taimi that they are unseparated magic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Logos.5603 said:

 

This would be OK, unfortunately actual lore contradicts this interpretation. We have been told multiple times by in-game authorities like Taimi that they are unseparated magic.

We have? Could you send a wiki link, cause I've seem to forgotten it. 

 

There are ways to make disjoint flows of magic look like unseparated magic, but I agree that they probably haven't thought that far. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...
On 4/2/2022 at 2:35 AM, yann.1946 said:

We have? Could you send a wiki link, cause I've seem to forgotten it. 

 

There are ways to make disjoint flows of magic look like unseparated magic, but I agree that they probably haven't thought that far. 

 

Back to this post after some time!

So this is what I've found now that we've had over a year of more lore.

In https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Deep_Trouble_(story) Gorrik describes ley energy as an "unparalleled source of raw magic! Pure energy!"

According to the Wiki "[m]agic can be decomposed into several separate forms, for example death magic" (emphasis mine) (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic#cite_note-4). This implies that raw magic is whole, not composed of any parts.

According to the Wiki "The Void is raw, primal form of magic which is made up of all the six primary domains of magic‚ÄĒCrystal, Death, Fire, Ice, Plant, and Water‚ÄĒof the world of Tyria." This is a problematic phrasing since "made up of" suggests that it is composed of, but this can't be the case since prior to Soo Won magic in these decomposed states did not exist. As the Wiki states, "After the first Elder Dragon Soo-Won split [the Void] into six domains of magic to regulate the All and preserve the existence of the world of Tyria" (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Void).

This seems to suggest that ley energy = Void. The only distinction that I have been able to infer between the two given the story so far is that what matters is the concentrations of raw magic such that too much ley energy = void.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

void energy has an extra domain that is filtered out, which is heavily implied to be entropy as several posters have said, and going by in-game lore ley energy and void energy aren't the same. its not completely explained in game but its clearly based upon how our universe works so you can fill in the gaps.

Edited by SoftFootpaws.9134
Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

void energy has an extra domain that is filtered out, which is heavily implied to be entropy as several posters have said, and going by in-game lore ley energy and void energy aren't the same. its not completely explained in game but its clearly based upon how our universe works so you can fill in the gaps.

It not implied that Void has an additional domain of magic. In fact, it has no domains since it is undifferentiated magic (this is attested multiple times in the game). It also never implied that entropy is a domain of magic. It is a state in which magic (pure magic like ley lines) can be in (perhaps its only state).

As the OP states: It isn't enough to simply say that one is chaotic and the other ordered since "chaotic" seems only to refer to the fact that it is unseparated magic, and that's what ley energy is.

There is in fact a confusion that is prevalent in this topic. Ley energy and Void are not made up of different kinds of magics. This implies that the different domains are like threads interwoven tightly making up ley energy. But this is not how ley energy is often described. It is pure magic which Soo Won split into six (if it was made up of the six domains then she never really did split them from the Void).

Edited by Logos.5603
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Ley energy is basically pure energy, but just flowing and coexisting. Void is also pure energy, but it tries to deconstruct everything around it.

The way it's kinda treated is, one is stable *toward life/existence on Tyria* and one is not. 

Right, but what makes the one good, and the other bad if they are the same thing. What causes one to destroy and the other to not destroy?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/3/2023 at 1:16 AM, Logos.5603 said:

According to the Wiki "[m]agic can be decomposed into several separate forms, for example death magic" (emphasis mine) (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic#cite_note-4). This implies that raw magic is whole, not composed of any parts.

According to the Wiki "The Void is raw, primal form of magic which is made up of all the six primary domains of magic‚ÄĒCrystal, Death, Fire, Ice, Plant, and Water‚ÄĒof the world of Tyria." This is a problematic phrasing since "made up of" suggests that it is composed of, but this can't be the case since prior to Soo Won magic in these decomposed states did not exist. As the Wiki states, "After the first Elder Dragon Soo-Won split [the Void] into six domains of magic to regulate the All and preserve the existence of the world of Tyria" (https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Void).

Quick note on "according to the wiki" - the wiki itself is fan maintained and tries to paraphrase multiple sources together. And several editors are non-native English speakers, or are native English speakers but are not English majors thus do not have absolute accuracy over word-dictionary meaning correlation. This means exact wording may not be to the t accurate. In this case, there are reference tags - it's best to use those reference tags (it's why they're there). For the first, the original phrasing is:

Taimi: Magic as we know it is like white light, composed of all the different types of dragon magic.

Which says the opposite of your conclusion - raw magic, ley-line, is composed of different types of dragon magic.
While for the second, well there are multiple sources but the key ones are:

Kuunavang: Then the Mother Dragon, Soo-Won, brought order, splitting the Void into six domains of magic.

Taimi: Our observations line up with what Kuunavang described. Void magic is made up of all the other magics.

On 6/3/2023 at 1:16 AM, Logos.5603 said:

This seems to suggest that ley energy = Void. The only distinction that I have been able to infer between the two given the story so far is that what matters is the concentrations of raw magic such that too much ley energy = void.

Still, this is an accurate conclusion. Both ley-lines and Void are presented as being "composed of all the different types of dragon magic". And there is no distinction created between the two. But we know such exists, because Ley-Lines are verbally distinguished from Void by Aurene and Commander:

<Character name>: How do you feel with the Void gone?
Aurene: I...I don't know. Not as different as I would have expected.
Aurene: Something's changed about the ley energy... Somehow it's more...pure.
Aurene: But make no mistake, my champion. As long as dragon magic continues to exist, so too will the Void.
Aurene: We only destroyed the form it took. But at least it won't be ending Tyria any time soon.
<Character name>: That...doesn't make me feel much better.
Aurene: It's stable. Now that I'm...the only one, I can "see" the ley lines in their entirety.
Aurene: If there's ever a ripple in the sea of magic, I'll know.

And then we get weird lines like this:

Aurene: Careful. It's corrupted Elder Dragon magic that's been combined. We don't know its power.

Which plays when harvesting ley-line energy out of the prisms. And the same events have Purified Void Magic you collect, and corrupted Void Magic that damages you... What even is "Purified Void Magic"? Is it just ley-lines? What's purified? How is it corrupted? How can Void be both corrupted and purified but also not Ley-Lines?

We don't know. It's left undefined.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Still, this is an accurate conclusion. Both ley-lines and Void are presented as being "composed of all the different types of dragon magic". And there is no distinction created between the two. But we know such exists, because Ley-Lines are verbally distinguished from Void by Aurene and Commander:

<Character name>: How do you feel with the Void gone?
Aurene: I...I don't know. Not as different as I would have expected.
Aurene: Something's changed about the ley energy... Somehow it's more...pure.
Aurene: But make no mistake, my champion. As long as dragon magic continues to exist, so too will the Void.
Aurene: We only destroyed the form it took. But at least it won't be ending Tyria any time soon.
<Character name>: That...doesn't make me feel much better.
Aurene: It's stable. Now that I'm...the only one, I can "see" the ley lines in their entirety.
Aurene: If there's ever a ripple in the sea of magic, I'll know.

And then we get weird lines like this:

Aurene: Careful. It's corrupted Elder Dragon magic that's been combined. We don't know its power.

Which plays when harvesting ley-line energy out of the prisms. And the same events have Purified Void Magic you collect, and corrupted Void Magic that damages you... What even is "Purified Void Magic"? Is it just ley-lines? What's purified? How is it corrupted? How can Void be both corrupted and purified but also not Ley-Lines?

We don't know. It's left undefined.

I mean, being fair the former dialogue is after the dragonvoid is destroyed, and the latter dialogue is before the Dragonvoid forms.

 

31 minutes ago, Logos.5603 said:

Right, but what makes the one good, and the other bad if they are the same thing. What causes one to destroy and the other to not destroy?

At the moment, it's unclear. But it seems that whatever the split is, it occurs with the Elder Dragons interaction with it. In goes harmful magic, out comes neutral magic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

I mean, being fair the former dialogue is after the dragonvoid is destroyed, and the latter dialogue is before the Dragonvoid forms.

I think you misunderstood my point in quoting them, because I'm saying they're serving the same purpose. They both denote Ley-Lines and Voids as being different, despite all descriptors of each being the same: "composed of all the different types of dragon magic". The only difference we're given is in that one event - where we have "Corrupted Void" and "Purified Void". Which is ironic, since the "purified" one looks like ley-line, while the "corrupted" one looks Void, the supposed original state of magic, and the word "corrupt" itself means to be changed from its original state in a negative way.

But does that mean that ley-line is Void, but somehow "purified" from the original state? How is the original state corrupted? What is the corruption?

Or as Logos puts it: what makes one the good one and the other bad if they're the same thing?

It's one of the many, many questions that should have been answered, but wasn't, in EoD. Because to paraphrase Tom Abernathy, character is what people care about, remember, and meme about, not narrative or lore. And yes I am salty, because Void could be a fascinating worldbuilding element, and instead it feels like a confused mess of "quick, we need an actual end villain since we turned the final Elder Dragon good".

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/5/2023 at 12:30 AM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

It's one of the many, many questions that should have been answered, but wasn't, in EoD. Because to paraphrase Tom Abernathy, character is what people care about, remember, and meme about, not narrative or lore. And yes I am salty, because Void could be a fascinating worldbuilding element, and instead it feels like a confused mess of "quick, we need an actual end villain since we turned the final Elder Dragon good".

Yes, exactly. From worldbuilding perspective this is really juicy stuff that ties to the very nature of their world, and raises really interesting questions regarding the Mists. The fact that void gets very little philosophical treatment in a world filled with magic users, magical libraries, mystics, scholars, etc. feels a bit like a wasted opportunity. Maybe Taimi published her dissertation soon! 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/4/2023 at 12:17 PM, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

 

Taimi: Magic as we know it is like white light, composed of all the different types of dragon magic.

Which says the opposite of your conclusion - raw magic, ley-line, is composed of different types of dragon magic.
While for the second, well there are multiple sources but the key ones are:

Kuunavang: Then the Mother Dragon, Soo-Won, brought order, splitting the Void into six domains of magic.

Taimi: Our observations line up with what Kuunavang described. Void magic is made up of all the other magics.

Still, this is an accurate conclusion. Both ley-lines and Void are presented as being "composed of all the different types of dragon magic". And there is no distinction created between the two.

Actually, this creates more problems.
1) According to Kuunavang's quote the Void is not made up of six domains of magic since it was split, bringing order. The implication here is that Void is undifferentiated magic which Soo-Won differentiated in to six domains. Which according to Taimi, when they are "together" form Ley Energy.
2) Taimi is just wrong when she says that "Void magic is made up of all the other magics." That's just Ley Energy! (So Void = Ley Energy?) Being "made up of" implies composition, but Void is not composed of the other magics (it can be composed of other stuff though.

So we get two definitions of Void magic: (1) undifferentiated magic; and (2) composed of 6 domains of magic. If (2), well then it is just ley energy (I know the characters think otherwise, but we don't know why they think this).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

Void should just be treated as a state of entropy when magic goes out of control imo.

To elaborate: we had unbound magic, then volatile and void should just be the final stage of that. 

That's quite a neat take, I like it. Since with masteries IIRC we started being able to collect Volatile magic thanks to Aurene? And it's commented on after she ascended that Volatile and unbound magic stopped being a problem around Tyria, because she was handling it.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
√ó
√ó
  • Create New...