Shroud has been nerfed of about 67% here some maths.

[kKagari.6804]

@TheDevice.2751 said:

@kKagari.6804 said:

@ilmau.9781 said:

@kKagari.6804 said:

@ilmau.9781 said:

@Plutocracy.9314 said:

@ilmau.9781 said:Have you ever played WvW or pvp?

scourge?

Let's make it very clear, i preordered the expansion the day it was announced, did all the open weekends and unlocked the scourge the first 10 seconds the expansion was released and still i do not like it. I do preafear to play Reaper. Am i allowed to have personal feelings or do i have to play what ANET force me to play?

Beacouse as it is now Anet turned Reaper to a totally unplayable class for WvW and PvP, and for what reason? To force ppl to play Scourge?

Reaper is way more playable now in PvP. A lot of the changes emphasize the ability to counterattack once you enter shroud.Entering shroud lets you:

• Corrupt boons better than before
• Transfer conditions
• Gain enhanced might
• Consume conditions

This was no available to reapers before.

i m online since patch hit testing in wvw and pvp so i know what i am saying. Then you try, go in pvp or in wvw as reapear, get to max life force (if you can without dying in the process) and then burst in with all the nice stuffs you listed above. Then let me know how it goes. Enjoy. So tell me, why i should loose time with Reaper while Scourge is full kitten top most meta class? That is the reason i point a finger to Anet, coz they do not promote diversity they just force ppl to buy their products. And this pisses me off a lot.

What are you on about? All those effects I listed happen on shroud entry. It doesn't matter if you have 10% LF or 100% LF. The benefits of this patch are vast. Yes, you can't camp shroud as much as before, but entering shroud can trigger a plethora of effects.

The point is that none of those effects matter when you're dead.

The point is, if you kill them before they kill you, you won't be dead. Why are people so content with being a punching bag? Yes, we should have complete damage mitigation as well, but RS prepatch was not that anyways.

[Crinn.7864]

@kKagari.6804 said:

@TheDevice.2751 said:

@kKagari.6804 said:

@ilmau.9781 said:

@kKagari.6804 said:

@ilmau.9781 said:

@Plutocracy.9314 said:

@ilmau.9781 said:Have you ever played WvW or pvp?

scourge?

Let's make it very clear, i preordered the expansion the day it was announced, did all the open weekends and unlocked the scourge the first 10 seconds the expansion was released and still i do not like it. I do preafear to play Reaper. Am i allowed to have personal feelings or do i have to play what ANET force me to play?

Beacouse as it is now Anet turned Reaper to a totally unplayable class for WvW and PvP, and for what reason? To force ppl to play Scourge?

Reaper is way more playable now in PvP. A lot of the changes emphasize the ability to counterattack once you enter shroud.Entering shroud lets you:

• Corrupt boons better than before
• Transfer conditions
• Gain enhanced might
• Consume conditions

This was no available to reapers before.

i m online since patch hit testing in wvw and pvp so i know what i am saying. Then you try, go in pvp or in wvw as reapear, get to max life force (if you can without dying in the process) and then burst in with all the nice stuffs you listed above. Then let me know how it goes. Enjoy. So tell me, why i should loose time with Reaper while Scourge is full kitten top most meta class? That is the reason i point a finger to Anet, coz they do not promote diversity they just force ppl to buy their products. And this pisses me off a lot.

What are you on about? All those effects I listed happen on shroud entry. It doesn't matter if you have 10% LF or 100% LF. The benefits of this patch are vast. Yes, you can't camp shroud as much as before, but entering shroud can trigger a plethora of effects.

The point is that none of those effects matter when you're dead.

The point is, if you kill them before they kill you, you won't be dead. Why are people so content with being a punching bag? Yes, we

should

have complete damage mitigation as well, but RS prepatch was not that anyways.

The problem is that the heavy handed hit to degen significantly reduced reaper's effectiveness in teamfights. Reaper does perform better in 1v1s post patch, but Reaper is still loses to all meta 1v1 classes.

The patch gave reaper more raw offensive power, but reaper still lacks any advantage it can leverage.

[TheDevice.2751]

@kKagari.6804 said:

@TheDevice.2751 said:

@kKagari.6804 said:

@ilmau.9781 said:

@kKagari.6804 said:

@ilmau.9781 said:

@Plutocracy.9314 said:

@ilmau.9781 said:Have you ever played WvW or pvp?

scourge?

Let's make it very clear, i preordered the expansion the day it was announced, did all the open weekends and unlocked the scourge the first 10 seconds the expansion was released and still i do not like it. I do preafear to play Reaper. Am i allowed to have personal feelings or do i have to play what ANET force me to play?

Beacouse as it is now Anet turned Reaper to a totally unplayable class for WvW and PvP, and for what reason? To force ppl to play Scourge?

Reaper is way more playable now in PvP. A lot of the changes emphasize the ability to counterattack once you enter shroud.Entering shroud lets you:

• Corrupt boons better than before
• Transfer conditions
• Gain enhanced might
• Consume conditions

This was no available to reapers before.

i m online since patch hit testing in wvw and pvp so i know what i am saying. Then you try, go in pvp or in wvw as reapear, get to max life force (if you can without dying in the process) and then burst in with all the nice stuffs you listed above. Then let me know how it goes. Enjoy. So tell me, why i should loose time with Reaper while Scourge is full kitten top most meta class? That is the reason i point a finger to Anet, coz they do not promote diversity they just force ppl to buy their products. And this pisses me off a lot.

What are you on about? All those effects I listed happen on shroud entry. It doesn't matter if you have 10% LF or 100% LF. The benefits of this patch are vast. Yes, you can't camp shroud as much as before, but entering shroud can trigger a plethora of effects.

The point is that none of those effects matter when you're dead.

The point is, if you kill them before they kill you, you won't be dead. Why are people so content with being a punching bag? Yes, we

should

have complete damage mitigation as well, but RS prepatch was not that anyways.

LF takes some time to build up, we no longer have a shorter shroud recharge route, and as long as they can delete your initial bar you're dead in the water. Any impactful damage you're allowed to swing for can easily be dodged, blocked, evaded, invulned ect'd... Afterward you're gone.

We also have some of the lowest access to stability. So add cc'ing us out of that initial shroud to the list of why this is all a bad idea and worse in practice. (meant stability)

[Exciton.8942]

From PvP and WvW perspective, balance is still terrible.

They nerfed spellbreaker. But everything else is still a mess.

Now we need to wait until next year to have another attempt to get some class diversity.

[intox.6347]

They nerf shroud degratation before with vital persistance change, now again... reaper shroud is now good only against low hp trash mobs. In WvW 1v1 they will kite it out ... in group u will not last in shroud a single second fighting :D I played also deathly chill build... they nerf that too... also some other condi reaper skills.. so thats not way to go.... u can just pick boring scourge and play like nobrain. Atleast we have 32 new mount skins. wtf...

[draugris.9872]

@Exciton.8942 said:From PvP and WvW perspective, balance is still terrible.

And it has always been like that. Anet has always been more interested in creating the next fotm or cheese spec instead of creating diversity, i mean there is a reason that the ESL dropped GW2 and there is also a reason why they are called the worst balancing team in the industry. PvP wise you can´t take GW2 serious at least not on a competitive level. Maybe from their perspective it is content to let people run from one class and one specc to another beeing busy with getting gear and getting comfortable with the class. If you want to stick with one class and truly master it while wanting to being viable all the way, GW2 is the wrong game. This complete BS "we change the meta every six months" agenda they are following just doesn´t allow that.

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

Why don't you adapt a little, prior to this change I rarely needed Shroud due to Shouts and Wells healing with wells providing Protection. I really hate to say this because I consider myself to be a Noob but seriously step out of your comfort zone and learn to play.

[ilmau.9781]

Would be nice to hear some official POV from Anet about... so no worries i have time and i am constant i will come here every day and refresh my thread until i got an answer.

[Vitali.5039]

How much time takes to get pushed out of Shroud by mere damage without decay PvP/WvW wise?At least in PvP we don't tickle foes anymore, for PvE (mobs) we now are Fearbot who can sustain itself better via Reaper's Onslaught empowered skills recharge paired with Chilling Victory. And we can even carry hard bads via transfusion now. Damage/PvE wise I've yet to see where we can push.

[Dristig.9678]

@kKagari.6804 said:

@TheDevice.2751 said:

@kKagari.6804 said:

@ilmau.9781 said:

@kKagari.6804 said:

@ilmau.9781 said:

@Plutocracy.9314 said:

@ilmau.9781 said:Have you ever played WvW or pvp?

scourge?

Let's make it very clear, i preordered the expansion the day it was announced, did all the open weekends and unlocked the scourge the first 10 seconds the expansion was released and still i do not like it. I do preafear to play Reaper. Am i allowed to have personal feelings or do i have to play what ANET force me to play?

Beacouse as it is now Anet turned Reaper to a totally unplayable class for WvW and PvP, and for what reason? To force ppl to play Scourge?

Reaper is way more playable now in PvP. A lot of the changes emphasize the ability to counterattack once you enter shroud.Entering shroud lets you:

• Corrupt boons better than before
• Transfer conditions
• Gain enhanced might
• Consume conditions

This was no available to reapers before.

i m online since patch hit testing in wvw and pvp so i know what i am saying. Then you try, go in pvp or in wvw as reapear, get to max life force (if you can without dying in the process) and then burst in with all the nice stuffs you listed above. Then let me know how it goes. Enjoy. So tell me, why i should loose time with Reaper while Scourge is full kitten top most meta class? That is the reason i point a finger to Anet, coz they do not promote diversity they just force ppl to buy their products. And this pisses me off a lot.

What are you on about? All those effects I listed happen on shroud entry. It doesn't matter if you have 10% LF or 100% LF. The benefits of this patch are vast. Yes, you can't camp shroud as much as before, but entering shroud can trigger a plethora of effects.

The point is that none of those effects matter when you're dead.

The point is, if you kill them before they kill you, you won't be dead. Why are people so content with being a punching bag? Yes, we

should

have complete damage mitigation as well, but RS prepatch was not that anyways.

Do you play PvP or WvW at all? Staying in shroud was absolutely required to live in team fights particularly in WvW.

[Aplethoraof.2643]

@ilmau.9781 said:

@Plutocracy.9314 said:

@ilmau.9781 said:Have you ever played WvW or pvp?

scourge?

Let's make it very clear, i preordered the expansion the day it was announced, did all the open weekends and unlocked the scourge the first 10 seconds the expansion was released and still i do not like it. I do preafear to play Reaper. Am i allowed to have personal feelings or do i have to play what ANET force me to play?

Beacouse as it is now Anet turned Reaper to a totally unplayable class for WvW and PvP, and for what reason? To force ppl to play Scourge?

If you play a suboptimal build or a build not meant for the game-mode you are in, expect suboptimal results.

As a side-note, it isn't totally unplayable. No build is totally unplayable if you are a decent player. If you are encountering situations where you feel you just can't do anything, you need to switch up your build or figure out what you are doing wrong that you could do better.

Its not really good in zergs, that is where scourge shines. Try doing small groups with it, you'll get better results.

[Zoltreez.6435]

im not good in math memory issues and all that shit but let me try...

67%.......... you said...

well for the weak...

30 sec to 15 sec is a 50% decreased uptimeso33 sec to 20 sec is even LESS then 50% decrease AROUND 40% i think ? im not sure the exact number BUT even i know that OPs number is BS....

anyway its really far from 67%........

[ilmau.9781]

@Aplethoraof.2643 said:

@ilmau.9781 said:

@Plutocracy.9314 said:

@ilmau.9781 said:Have you ever played WvW or pvp?

scourge?

Let's make it very clear, i preordered the expansion the day it was announced, did all the open weekends and unlocked the scourge the first 10 seconds the expansion was released and still i do not like it. I do preafear to play Reaper. Am i allowed to have personal feelings or do i have to play what ANET force me to play?

Beacouse as it is now Anet turned Reaper to a totally unplayable class for WvW and PvP, and for what reason? To force ppl to play Scourge?

If you play a suboptimal build or a build not meant for the game-mode you are in, expect suboptimal results.

As a side-note, it isn't totally unplayable. No build is totally unplayable if you are a decent player. If you are encountering situations where you feel you just can't do anything, you need to switch up your build or figure out what you are doing wrong that you could do better.

Its not really good in zergs, that is where scourge shines. Try doing small groups with it, you'll get better results.

Cool story bro!!! now let s talk the fact that anyone play the fuck they want to play. And that is what i was doing till yesterday. Then Anet totally killed my build for NO FUCKING REASON OF ANY KIND. It was not broken in pve.pvp,wvw, nor was overplayed, not was even META IN ANY GAME MODE. Was just Different THAN SCOURGE SHADES SPAMSHIT so that is the problem, the latest released class HAS TO BE the meta one, the more op, the broken one, this way more and more ppl buy the expansion.

They metodically nerfed and changed each trait and skill and mechanic that were taking up any of RP builds.

[Sigmoid.7082]

@Zoltreez.6435 said:im not good in math memory issues and all that kitten but let me try...

67%.......... you said...

well for the weak...

30 sec to 15 sec is a 50% decreased uptimeso33 sec to 20 sec is even LESS then 50% decrease AROUND 40% i think ? im not sure the exact number BUT even i know that OPs number is BS....

anyway its really far from 67%........

39.4%

[ilmau.9781]

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Zoltreez.6435 said:im not good in math memory issues and all that kitten but let me try...

67%.......... you said...

well for the weak...

30 sec to 15 sec is a 50% decreased uptimeso33 sec to 20 sec is even LESS then 50% decrease AROUND 40% i think ? im not sure the exact number BUT even i know that OPs number is BS....

anyway its really far from 67%........

39.4%

could be, i was upset when i did the match, still it is A LOT still turn the class almost unplayable anywhere

[Zoltreez.6435]

@ilmau.9781 said:

@Sigmoid.7082 said:

@Zoltreez.6435 said:im not good in math memory issues and all that kitten but let me try...

67%.......... you said...

well for the weak...

30 sec to 15 sec is a 50% decreased uptimeso33 sec to 20 sec is even LESS then 50% decrease AROUND 40% i think ? im not sure the exact number BUT even i know that OPs number is BS....

anyway its really far from 67%........

39.4%

could be, i was upset when i did the match, still it is A LOT still turn the class almost unplayable anywhere

that number is stupid...

but i do agree that this nerf was 100% Troll level of a nerf from devs.....

its our only defense god damn it....

[Oldirtbeard.9834]

I'm doing fine and I can't play on any other class with out failing, so if a baddie like me can do better now after the patch then I really don't know what to say man with out sounding rude.

[Shazmataz.1423]

@Oldirtbeard.9834 said:I'm doing fine and I can't play on any other class with out failing, so if a baddie like me can do better now after the patch then I really don't know what to say man with out sounding rude.

What gme mode are you playing? Pve...maybe but wvw def not!

[trueanimus.4085]

yeah i have noticed that you burn through shroud WAY too fast.. taking no damage i can get off maybe a leap and one spin then im completely out of power and back to normal skills. This needs to be fixed asap.. I know that they want to force people to play the new spec, but i do not like scourge and do not like being forced into playing it. Barrier should never our shine shroud, since that is what the reaper is and has always had since beta.

[Obtena.7952]

@ilmau.9781 said:

@Aplethoraof.2643 said:

@ilmau.9781 said:

@Plutocracy.9314 said:

@ilmau.9781 said:Have you ever played WvW or pvp?

scourge?

Let's make it very clear, i preordered the expansion the day it was announced, did all the open weekends and unlocked the scourge the first 10 seconds the expansion was released and still i do not like it. I do preafear to play Reaper. Am i allowed to have personal feelings or do i have to play what ANET force me to play?

Beacouse as it is now Anet turned Reaper to a totally unplayable class for WvW and PvP, and for what reason? To force ppl to play Scourge?

If you play a suboptimal build or a build not meant for the game-mode you are in, expect suboptimal results.

As a side-note, it isn't totally unplayable. No build is totally unplayable if you are a decent player. If you are encountering situations where you feel you just can't do anything, you need to switch up your build or figure out what you are doing wrong that you could do better.

Its not really good in zergs, that is where scourge shines. Try doing small groups with it, you'll get better results.

Cool story bro!!! now let s talk the fact that anyone play the kitten they want to play. And that is what i was doing till yesterday. Then Anet totally killed my build for NO kitten REASON OF ANY KIND. It was not broken in pve.pvp,wvw, nor was overplayed, not was even META IN ANY GAME MODE. Was just Different THAN SCOURGE SHADES SPAMSHIT so that is the problem, the latest released class HAS TO BE the meta one, the more op, the broken one, this way more and more ppl buy the expansion.

They metodically nerfed and changed each trait and skill and mechanic that were taking up any of RP builds.

Now hold on ... nothing that has changed PREVENTS you from playing a build you can make with the tools we have, just like before. "play how you want" does not mean YOU can tell Anet how they can change the game; that's a ridiculous way to think. If you can't adjust to find one you like to play as the game changes (rather frequently), you need to really rethink how you play this game.

[Baldrick.8967]

Well, not only did they nerf the uptime, they also nerfed the regen skills. I literally cannot get through even one set of the reaper bar before I'm knocked out of it by ONE player.

THE BUFF TO SKILL DAMAGE IS USELESS IF YOU CANNOT USE IT.

In a zerg it's worse than useless. Gone from being able to regen and stay in shroud for a goodly time, doing lots of damage, to being out of it so fast I don't even finish second skill and back to normal, piled high with condis, and dead.

No idea why they nerfed the hell out of shroud- the only reason has to be to force people to 'like' scourge- which I really cannot stand playing.

Oh well, my favourite power build gone. Slowly losing classes to play in wvw, soon none will appeal to me.

[Blue Hare.8612]

Change from 3 to 5 is that 67% and change from 33 to 20 is 39%. So the decay was increased by 67% and this results in 39% reduction in shroud duration.

On a side note: 33 is 67% bigger than 20 and 20 is 39% smaller than 33. The difference is calculated in relation to the value it is compared to. This effect is used in marketin and such to get better looking values.

So if OP would have said "Shroud lasted 67% longer before the nerf" it would have been correct, although a bit misleading.

And by the way "Shroud duration was reduced by 39%, it lasted 67% longer before" is not a self contradicting statement.

[Jackalrat.5493]

@Plutocracy.9314 said:

@ilmau.9781 said:How exactly i am supposed to do damage if i can not stay alive?????

dodge?

Dodge doesn't stop life force from degenerating. He is referring to damage you're just taking all the time. And he's right. Going from lose 3% a second to 5% a second is a huge, huge nerf to survivablity. Meanwhile, they only boosted damage about 20-25%.

[Jackalrat.5493]

Also OPs math is weird here but he's right about 67% in this respect:

We used to lose 3% LF per second. Now we lose 5%. That's 2/3rd or 67% more damage taken.

100/3 = it took 33 seconds for a full life force to degenerate.100/5 = it now takes 20 seconds.

Our survival time is down 40% but we're taking 67% more damage. Maths.

The fact remains we did not get a 40% damage boost. This was a nerf. We're also the most focused class in the game with no escapes, blocks, or invulns, so we really feel any survivability nerf hard.

Edit: If you account for the nerf on life force gen from auto, it's probably more like 42-43%

[Svarty.8019]

@ilmau.9781 said:

Would be nice to hear some official POV from Anet about... so no worries i have time and i am constant i will come here every day and refresh my thread until i got an answer.I think we all know that you can expect a resounding silence instead.http://static.starcitygames.com/sales/cardscans/MTG/ALA/en/nonfoil/ResoundingSilence.jpg